What's YOUR starting tactic on the league?

[tagg1080]

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Vikings have bigger range than Voids and with micro it's easy to just hit n run but you dont have time to build vikings for early game and cost too much for early.

If you keep a good supply of addons, it isn't that hard to switch with terran.

I would say that if you saw the void ray, just grab some marines till you can get some vikings. Even 1-2 should be enough if you have good micro, just dance with the ray.

 

[mrzwach]

Vikings have bigger range than Voids and with micro it's easy to just hit n run but you dont have time to build vikings for early game and cost too much for early.

Voids can move faster and can continuously attack while chasing. Furthermore, they rape vikings when they are fully charged, and vikings have a hell of a time chasing.

Just a note, a marine (with shield) survives longer vs a fully charged void ray than a viking.

 

[~Void~]

i clicked on this thread and knew it would be about zergrush

DERP

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

Voids can move faster and can continuously attack while chasing. Furthermore, they rape vikings when they are fully charged, and vikings have a hell of a time chasing.

Just a note, a marine (with shield) survives longer vs a fully charged void ray than a viking.

That's what im also saying. It's better to use marines than vikings. Vikings have bigger range, not sure who is faster but viking can kill rays thx to 1-2 range more, with micro, but in early game you dont have the gas for that.

If you keep a good supply of addons, it isn't that hard to switch with terran.

The prob isnt switching to vikings, the units themselves cost too much, thus you will produce less and you will lose more than if you use your resources on marines instead.

 

[PurplePoot]

Voids only move faster if you get the movement speed upgrade, which means you are massing void rays, which means you suck and you will inevitably end up on my 4v4 RT to punish me for my sins.

 

[shamanyouranus]

Void rays...definitely
Don't even build probes or pylons. Just Void Rays.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

Voids only move faster if you get the movement speed upgrade, which means you are massing void rays, which means you suck and you will inevitably end up on my 4v4 RT to punish me for my sins.

Haha that's why I hate anything above 2v2 and my laptop&processor too. Just like in war3, losing to some massers that you know are generally unskilled. I guess no reason to get angry over 3v3 or 4v4, that's for fun.

 

[Statharas]

chargelots are very powerful.

Me and mare call it Zerglot Rush. 6pool 5zealot :3

 

[TwistedImage]

I play zerg.

I always 10-pool unless I'm rushing, which I rarely do. I get workers and a queen up to 26 supply, AKA 24 workers. Then I start producing roaches up to 50 or 58 supply (I get a lair and roach warren while making workers), depending on whether or not I get attacked while producing, and attack the enemy with upgraded roaches. Sometimes it wins the whole game, sometimes it takes out a bunch of workers, and sometimes it's entirely ineffectual.

Oh, when I send the roaches to attack I get a hydra den and expand, and produce hydras and workers while the roaches are fighting. My lategame army consists of 5+ ultras 8-10 infestors, and lots of hydralisks if the enemy goes ground, and if the enemy goes air, I spam corruptors if massive air, or hydras if non-massive. I keep the infestors against air as well.

 

[HINDYhat]

I play zerg.

I always 10-pool unless I'm rushing, which I rarely do. I get workers and a queen up to 26 supply, AKA 24 workers. Then I start producing roaches up to 50 or 58 supply (I get a lair and roach warren while making workers), depending on whether or not I get attacked while producing, and attack the enemy with upgraded roaches. Sometimes it wins the whole game, sometimes it takes out a bunch of workers, and sometimes it's entirely ineffectual.

Oh, when I send the roaches to attack I get a hydra den and expand, and produce hydras and workers while the roaches are fighting. My lategame army consists of 5+ ultras 8-10 infestors, and lots of hydralisks if the enemy goes ground, and if the enemy goes air, I spam corruptors if massive air, or hydras if non-massive. I keep the infestors against air as well.

Why do you 10pool if you don't rush? I'd suggest something like 14pool, to get a better economy up, and if they pressure you, just put a couple spine crawlers up. Also, if you don't expand soon, your production capability will be horrid and terran/protoss players should just be able to steamroll you. Roach hydra is a good midgame mix though.

I'm not a zerg player though. This is just stuff I've heard other people say. But a 1-basing zerg is definitely weaker than a 1-basing protoss or terran.

 

[StormWarriors2]

I hate people who spam roaches.... -.-
But people also hate it when i spam missle turrets and siegetanks . espically if i am pro at defending agianst enemy forces.
heres my tactic for people who are defensive players.
I build at least all scvs and build a barracks and a supplydepot and 8 marines and 2 marauders. And i build 2 bunkers at key locations and i build a secondary command center and build up to 34 scvs, and i take 2 out of the 34 and build a defence. A walling tactic called supply depoting and wall up on my flanks. and missle turrets on key areas that air units usually take. if i am rushed by units i immediately take defensive action and start building a wall on my key areas to make the enemy have to go around them. But the only problem with my tactic it takes at least 12 minutes.

 

[TwistedImage]

It all happens pretty fast, really. Reason I 10 pool is to get my roaches out faster. Since I only have 1 lair, my production speed is X, and with 24 workers I can use my larvae the moment they pop out. Besides, with no army, I'd die if I expanded sooner.

I do get spine crawlers if they "pressure" me, of course. I couldn't mention every single thing I do to counter enemy tactics, I'd fill a page with one post.

I guess I could try 14-pooling, but that end up in a bloody late queen and thus slow production.

 

[StormWarriors2]

I really like making people frustrated when fighting. I trick the player into getting into my base and i basically i surround him completely. Thinking he has won. He stops building units. And i attack from everywhere. My vikings dropping in killing everyone. I tell it works everytime as all of sudden his army is consumed by over whelming numbers.

 

[HINDYhat]

Besides, with no army, I'd die if I expanded sooner.

A couple spine crawlers can do wonders.

I guess I could try 14-pooling, but that end up in a bloody late queen and thus slow production.

Well the most common build I've encountered is 14pool 15hatch, which results in a hell lot of production. I don't know if you watch high level play, but I really can't think of one good zerg player who favours 1-basing over early expanding.

 

[TwistedImage]

Just tried 14 pooling. It fucked me over entirely.

While I did get a beast economy from early expanding, my roaches came out atrociously late, and troop production was generally bad since I needed workers in the second base.

Then I got killed by immortals and zealots before I even had tunneling claws.

 

[HINDYhat]

http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/3782514/
If you want to learn how to deal with huge pushes against early expanding, watch that.

 

[TwistedImage]

I'm guessing I should watch that with sound.

Appreciate your help, by the way.

 

[mrzwach]

Generally, I go 13pool 16expo as zerg, but meh.

Also, if you were going with roaches vs immortals, you were fucked anyways.

 

[TwistedImage]

Generally, I go 13pool 16expo as zerg, but meh.

Also, if you were going with roaches vs immortals, you were fucked anyways.

Not really. I killed all of the immortals. I massively out-micro my league, but I'm failing because my macro sucks.

But yeah, I guess shame on me for not scouting.

 

[tagg1080]

Just tried 14 pooling. It fucked me over entirely.

While I did get a beast economy from early expanding, my roaches came out atrociously late, and troop production was generally bad since I needed workers in the second base.

Then I got killed by immortals and zealots before I even had tunneling claws.

lings for the mortals and a few roaches and lings for the lots, how is that an issue?

and a spiney or two with a queen, and you are set bro.


imo zerg are actually one of the hardest to attack early game, between the creep, queens, and just the mass of lings and roaches that can be pumped out, they are very good at defending early game.

If all you built was roaches, then shame on you, lings are wonderful trash to throw around, and if you are good with them, they can be amazingly powerful. aka: if your micro is that of a korean on cocaine.

 

[Itachi009]

for Bonze - Gold this noobish tactic works for 80% of the games:

Protoss: at the start send all 5 drones to minerals and build 1, with the first built drone go to a point NEAR the enemy base, during the drone walks you can build 10/10 drones, then you build with the drone near the base a pylon, and then 2x warpgate, after the second warpgate is in build, go with the drone back to make minerals, and now, build zealots with bot warpgates and cast the time rush from your main building on both warpgates, with the first 2 zealots, kill your enemys workers and after they are dead its gg in 80% of all cases.

does work bad bad against:
- terrans if they cave themselve with buildings
- protoss with the same tactic^^
- zergs who play on pure rush or have built at least 1 defense building

does work good against:
- players that are slow and build 12 drones before they even got a barrack
- zergs who dont play on rush
- protoss who dont play on rush
- terrans who dont cave themselve

note: in platinum or diamond this tactic is useless

 

[tagg1080]

for Bonze - Gold this noobish tactic works for 80% of the games:

Protoss: at the start send all 5 drones to minerals and build 1, with the first built drone go to a point NEAR the enemy base, during the drone walks you can build 10/10 drones, then you build with the drone near the base a pylon, and then 2x warpgate, after the second warpgate is in build, go with the drone back to make minerals, and now, build zealots with bot warpgates and cast the time rush from your main building on both warpgates, with the first 2 zealots, kill your enemys workers and after they are dead its gg in 80% of all cases.

does work bad bad against:
- terrans if they cave themselve with buildings
- protoss with the same tactic^^
- zergs who play on pure rush or have built at least 1 defense building

does work good against:
- players that are slow and build 12 drones before they even got a barrack
- zergs who dont play on rush
- protoss who dont play on rush
- terrans who dont cave themselve

note: in platinum or diamond this tactic is useless

You should would on your english dude, it is hard to follow what you are trying to say.

 

[Itachi009]

You should would on your english dude, it is hard to follow what you are trying to say.

you mean "You should work" not "You should would", right?

 

[TwistedImage]

Lolol, owned.

 

[tagg1080]

Heh, yea.

I am typing between tests at work, so I may misspell some things.

Just try to work on it please, that paragraph was a little hard to follow.

 

[mrzwach]

for Bonze - Gold this noobish tactic works for 80% of the games:

note: in platinum or diamond this tactic is useless

Just so you know, if you use cheese tactics to win games, you will eventually be promoted and they will be easily defeated by people who actually know how to play. If you want to get better, just play the game normally. :\

Also, it feels kinda awkward to defeat someones cheese, then realize that when you hit the midgame, they have no idea how to actually play the game. :\

 

[kewlthis]

http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/3782514/
If you want to learn how to deal with huge pushes against early expanding, watch that.

I enjoyed that quite a bit. I wish I was that good :/. I always lose on early push

 

[tagg1080]

Watch the HDH Invitational, they had some world class players going cheese, and they failed pretty hard sometimes.

 

[Itachi009]

Just so you know, if you use cheese tactics to win games, you will eventually be promoted and they will be easily defeated by people who actually know how to play. If you want to get better, just play the game normally. :\

Also, it feels kinda awkward to defeat someones cheese, then realize that when you hit the midgame, they have no idea how to actually play the game. :\

i actually wrote that it is a noob tactic and just a way to skip the senseless games in bronze - gold where you can win with nearly every tactic (you just save a lot of time with zealot rush)

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

Top replays are the best way to learn. Cheese or no cheese, wth is that? SC1 I see, they made the same things, no matter the players, the same was in war3- you know what units they will use vs you. What's the problem with cheese? The interesting part of the game is how you will outplay him or who will outplay who knowing what the other will do.

If you are skilled enough, you will not let someone thinking 'Oh I'll do something he doesn't expect' win cause you would do counter fast. So, in top level, they dont do different things cause they know the other player can counter it, so the idea is just to outplay him even if you do what he expects.

 

[mrzwach]

By definition, a cheese tactic is easy to defeat if scouted properly. This means that it is much more effective at lower leagues, where people don't scout much.