[Campaign] What if Archimonde had conquered Mount Hyjal?

[Deleted member 219079]

Lore nerds, I'm in dire need of your counsel. I'm making a campaign unveiling an alternative timeline where the Burning Legion won the battle of Mount Hyjal.

What would happen in this case? He'd destroy Nordrassil and gain access to unfathomable powers granted by the Second Well of Eternity. Given how he initially opted to serve under Sargeras out of hunger for power, would he truly remain loyal to Sargeras and pursue the invasion of Burning Legion? If he does, could Azeroth's denizens be capable of opposing him any further? I wouldn't mind the campaign ending in such an apocalypse by the way, I'd just need a rough summary on how such scenario would be carried out in that case: would Archimonde be able to summon Sargeras on the spot or would he have to hound some magical relics? Would Sargeras then slay the nascent Azeroth, who isn't yet a titan and hence defenseless? In what space would this happen, surface of Azeroth?

 

[deepstrasz]

Considering only the RTS lore or the retcons of WoW too?

What would happen in this case? He'd destroy Nordrassil and gain access to unfathomable powers granted by the Second Well of Eternity.

Basically, Azeroth would be doomed or at least, most of it.

Given how he initially opted to serve under Sargeras out of hunger for power, would he truly remain loyal to Sargeras and pursue the invasion of Burning Legion?

Well, he could try or not even care of Sargeras in away since the titan is so far away and to get to Azeroth proper summoning and power would be needed (if we're not to consider WoW Burning Legion UFOs). I guess Sargeras could get to Azeroth by himself but it would take much longer, time which Archimonde could use to get even stronger. However, Archimonde would still be up against Sargeras, Kil'jaeden (if he doesn't somehow sway most of the Legion to mutiny) and the Burning Legion. However, considering only the RTSs, Sargeras would be weakened possibly even dead since Aegwynn defeated the demonlord on Azeroth, thus why Kil'jaeden was afraid of Medivh in the Warcraft II manual and why we don't hear about Sargeras in Warcraft III except as a dead entity in Frozen Throne.

would Archimonde be able to summon Sargeras on the spot or would he have to hound some magical relics?

If Archimonde becomes that powerful after consuming Nordrassil, then well, only interference from the remaining powers of Azeroth would be able to stop or delay Sargeras' summoning. However, Sargeras could possibly be summoned by the other strong demons but in a bigger time interval. It might not be probable though, since quite the energy was needed to get Sargeras to Azeroth during the War of the Ancients. But, if we consider Sargeras as weakened or alive, one could get his relics from the Tomb and with enough power could possibly fetch Sargeras without Archimonde and the World Tree.

Would Sargeras then slay the nascent Azeroth, who isn't yet a titan and hence defenseless?

Well, Sargeras' quest pre-WoW, was to corrupt/demonize everything, so destroying Azeroth won't be too smart, unless the hate for the titans and their creation (which he was a part of?) still lingers so after he drains Azeroth of its power, he could destroy it for the lulz. However, economically and strategically speaking, it would be a waste unless no more titans are left out there (as the RoC manual implies?) and Azeroth is the endgame. Afterwards, Sargeras can kill himself and the Legion with him because there would be no reason to live anymore.

In what space would this happen, surface of Azeroth?

I don't know but for instance, maybe one could take the Eye of Sargeras (if it still exists? I remember it was destroyed in TfT?) and/or the Jeweled Scepter of Sargeras and use the Maelstrom's energies to summon Sargeras or for own interests.

Take it or leave it.

 

[cleavinghammer]

If Archimonde had managed to destroy Mount Hyjal, I think it'd basically boil down to Burning Legion vs Scourge, with the survivors (orcs, night elves, humans) and Illidan as not-quite-big-enough-to-be factions (Illidan might contact the Naga earlier).

Legion would be stronger in Dalaran, but the rest of Lordaeron and Quel'thalas would be overrun by the Legion, so the entire eastern continent would be a stalemate.

Archimonde seems to prefer acting through other demons as lieutenants, so defeating him might involve going through the lieutenants he sends to watch over conquered regions (Barrens, Northrend, Lordaeron...) while he stays at Hyjal doing... something.

Possibly he might send forces to look for artifacts that would allow him to overthrow Sargeras, but as the balance of power tips towards the undead or the other factions (until the Legion holds only the Hyjal Crater), he ends up using them to summon Sargeras out of desperation.

The Undead would be trying to keep the demons weakened, so they might ignore the living or even 'help' them (as Arthas helped Illidan kill Tichondrius), figuring they'll keep for later.

The dwarves might close themselves off from the world, keeping themselves safe from either at the cost of not being able to help the other races kick the Legion and Scourge out (maybe the high elves would find refuge there).

 

[deepstrasz]

If Archimonde had managed to destroy Mount Hyjal, I think it'd basically boil down to Burning Legion vs Scourge,

Not really much effort, since Ner'zhul will probably become weak or at least won't be able to do much without a body and then probably the Forsaken (?) if they are to become a thing or remain under the Lich King. Ner'zhul needed Archimonde to fail so he could thrive. With Archimonde alive, little chance for the Dreadlords to be defeated and also for the Lich King to not be under the Legion's control.
Illidan and the naga would probably also be in BL servitude.

Archimonde seems to prefer acting through other demons as lieutenants

when there isn't something he directly should take care of. Currently, the Lich King would be one of if not the only threat. A lame Scourge+remaining Azeroth factions vs the Legion would be uninteresting but not unplausible. Afterwards, the Lich King could just use the dead of war to bolster forces and gain advantage over the remaining factions.
Also, Kil'jaeden made the Lich King, so he could be of much help, probably against his demise.

The dwarves might close themselves off from the world, keeping themselves safe from either at the cost of not being able to help the other races kick the Legion and Scourge out (maybe the high elves would find refuge there).

Everybody's gonna go underground
Well, even so, the dwarves would realize that nowhere would be safe with the legion or undead roaming the world as victors.

 

[cleavinghammer]

Ner'zhul could order Arthas to Northrend immediately to fuse with him to counteract Archimonde (instead of after being weakened by Illidan's spell). From the dreadlords' comments, there's no regular communication between Lordaeron and Kalimdor, so the Scourge could potentially mount a counterattack there. Sylvanas would still be enslaved, though maybe more useful as a ranger than a banshee.

The Scourge might be able to pull off a repeat of the Varimathras subplot by cornering him and forcing him to collaborate against the other demon lieutenants (since there's more of them now, it might be easier to do).

Not sure where Kil'Jaeden fits pre-Frozen Throne. Is he a subordinate or an equal of Archimonde?

The dwarves would be more "we can't help just yet, we need to make sure our mountains are unassailable" than outright refusing to help. Turtling worked for the Worgen, after all.

Other possibilities are the orcs going fel with a different pit lord (as Thrall's vision of standing united against the demons failed pretty hard), Jaina's humans looking for alternate sources of magic, the night elves dealing with the loss of the tree and going wrong...

 

[deepstrasz]

Ner'zhul could order Arthas to Northrend immediately to fuse with him to counteract Archimonde (instead of after being weakened by Illidan's spell).

Sure. However, if we are to consider WoW stuff, Arthas will rule and not Ner'zhul or both so, I don't know what memories he'll have. Will he know everything Ner'zhul knew?
Lordaeron remnants would still be there possibly even grouping with other human kingdoms/factions.

From the dreadlords' comments, there's no regular communication between Lordaeron and Kalimdor, so the Scourge could potentially mount a counterattack there.

Not like they didn't teleport like crazy anywhere (limited range, maybe?). Could Arthas+Ner'zhul take the undead from the grasp of the dreadlords? If nothing else, at least one of the dreadlords could go to Kalimdor to notify Archimonde if not the Legion already announcing their victory to the dreadlords before that.

Sylvanas would still be enslaved, though maybe more useful as a ranger than a banshee.

Well, I guess she was always a Banshee (since RoC). All that stuff with having a body, is a WoW addition. Strangely, in Battle for Azeroth, they made Sylvanas have a (transitive but temporary?) Banshee form.

Not sure where Kil'Jaeden fits pre-Frozen Throne. Is he a subordinate or an equal of Archimonde?

WoW says they are brothers. I have no idea. I assume Archimonde is the physically tougher one, or at least the one mostly preoccupied with war/fighting while Kil'jaeden is more of a strategist/scheme maker, mind player.

Turtling worked for the Worgen, after all.

Meh, because the Gilneans were cursed? Or after they became Werewolves?

All in all, it's for @BlueSaint to decide how things turn out since he's supposed to be the fanfic maker.

Question(s) is/are:
1. Would Legion vs Scourge make an interesting story? Where do the other factions fit in? Many players would love to play as Arthas but this campaign is supposed to be about the Legion? Many also like Archimonde.
2. Or, just keep it demon vs demon style, would that be interesting?

Maybe, mix everything in: Kil'jaeden doesn't really like Archimonde and/or the other way around, somehow helping the LK to kill Kj and his servants thus making Archimonde supreme (because the LK would probably not work with Kj against Archimonde) and afterwards; basically infighting till the point that Sargeras would have fewer and fewer possibilities of getting to Azeroth or being able to destroy/conquer it.

Most important question: what do you want to convey with such a story?

My head hurts.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

I'm planning on accounting the WoW retcons.

In Antorus Ending Cinematic Sargeras is seen manifested as cloud substance above Azeroth, getting materialized and subsequently imprisoned by the Pantheon. Could it be that he had been observing during the events of RoC? I'm not a WoW player so I don't know if that's even the same timeline as RoC...

1. Would Legion vs Scourge make an interesting story? Where do the other factions fit in? Many players would love to play as Arthas but this campaign is supposed to be about the Legion? Many also like Archimonde.

Archimonde would be antagonist in my books (so no playing as him). Unless I include the Void Lords urging to corrupt Azeroth at her weakest, in which situation I would imagine Sargeras order Archimonde fend off the Void.

2. Or, just keep it demon vs demon style, would that be interesting?

But aren't demons immortal who go to nether upon death? "Hey bro, sorry for killing you back there, no hard feelings, 'kay?" "Yeah don't worry 'bout it mate, shit happens."

Edit: I didn't even think of Legion vs Scourge, because Archimonde deemed Lich King unimportant factor after being summoned, this reflecting the power dynamic between the two. In other words, he could've squashed Ner'zhul like a fly on will.

 

[cleavinghammer]

Leaving the question of who exactly the heroes are going to be, if the only ones with the numbers to pose a threat are that underleveled compared to the Legion.

 

[deepstrasz]

In Antorus Ending Cinematic Sargeras is seen manifested as cloud substance above Azeroth, getting materialized and subsequently imprisoned by the Pantheon. Could it be that he had been observing during the events of RoC? I'm not a WoW player so I don't know if that's even the same timeline as RoC...

Much stuff changed after Warlords of Draenor, alternate timeline and all. You can do some reading on the wikis.
That would be lame for Sargeras to have always been around Azeroth, especially when he needed a summoning process to get to Azeroth in WotA. As for, just observing, the titan could have done it from somewhere else (Twisting Nether, Argus... if you prefer).

But aren't demons immortal who go to nether upon death? "Hey bro, sorry for killing you back there, no hard feelings, 'kay?" "Yeah don't worry 'bout it mate, shit happens."

That's something WoW introduced. In RoC's manual Sargeras had to lock them somewhere in a vacuous corner of the Nether because they were strong, not because they went to the TN and came back. All other demons were destroyed but the Eredar were/are the strongest. Basically, of all demons he had to lock the Nathrezim and the Eredar. It doesn't say they are immortal but that they were powerful. So, maybe, it was easier to lock them than kill them.

Edit: I didn't even think of Legion vs Scourge, because Archimonde deemed Lich King unimportant factor after being summoned, this reflecting the power dynamic between the two. In other words, he could've squashed Ner'zhul like a fly on will.

Yeah but with Arthas merging with him, that would have changed(?). However, I don't see it working with Archimonde draining the tree's juices.

 

[cleavinghammer]

Even if they're immortal, being killed in the material world is probably a setback to them, considering how much time and effort went into summoning Archimonde.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

Leaving the question of who exactly the heroes are going to be, if the only ones with the numbers to pose a threat are that underleveled compared to the Legion.

Two scenarios emerge in my mind:
1. Betrayal. Archimonde subverts Sargeras' word, because his motive for allegiance was power, not sharing Sargeras' agenda per se. About the resurrection in nether thing, I presume they'd simply proceed to bicker in TN as well. Protagonist here would be Archimonde, who doesn't want to destroy all existence because he wants to thrive, thus exist, himself.
2. Void intervention. Pantheon speculated that after gestation, Azeroth would be capable of ending Void once and for all, making her their impending doom if not dealt with. As such, it'd make sense for Void Lords to seize every opportunity at hand to corrupt Azeroth. Our 'hero' would be Archimonde, who would fend off spawns of Void per instructed by Sargeras, whose sole agenda is to purge Void.

That would be lame for Sargeras to have always been around Azeroth [...]

Agreed. I read some fan speculation on why Sargeras was overhead Azeroth. General consesus seemed to be that he wanted Azeroth submit under his will.

That's something WoW introduced. [...]

Well, I want to adhere to WoW lore. So I'd resolve any discrepancy per WoW's stance.

 

[deepstrasz]

1. Betrayal. Archimonde subverts Sargeras' word, because his motive for allegiance was power, not sharing Sargeras' agenda per se. About the resurrection in nether thing, I presume they'd simply proceed to bicker in TN as well. Protagonist here would be Archimonde, who doesn't want to destroy all existence because he wants to thrive, thus exist, himself.

Yeah, only they were not destroying but undoing what the Pantheon did, turning order to chaos.

2. Void intervention. Pantheon speculated that after gestation, Azeroth would be capable of ending Void once and for all, making her their impending doom if not dealt with.

Never liked deus ex machina McGuffin lameness. Maybe, you'd want to actually address a philosophy in all this. There can't be order without chaos and the other way around. Maybe what the titans were doing, was breaking the balance of the universe into its extinction or something.

 

[Tuwnew]

Have you ideas of which faction(s) you want to be playable?

Because you can make Archimonde vs Sargeras, starring demons.
But also, the remnants factions on Azeroth which may be able to retake their lands since Archimonde and Sargeras are busy fighting together.

Or also be Kil'Jaeden who must choose one side.

 

[cleavinghammer]

So it's a mostly-demons campaign.

You could have levels where the demons tempt/trick survivors into joining them or at least fighting each other, reducing the total number of enemies.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

@deepstrasz
I believe the three big motives are: erase all (Sargeras), protect all (Pantheon), corrupt all (Void Lords).

Sargeras returned to the rest of the Pantheon and summoned Aggramar to his side. Before the gathered titans, Sargeras recounted his discoveries. He expressed his growing fear that existence itself was already flawed. Only by burning away all of creation could the titans stand a chance of thwarting the void lords' ultimate goal. In Sargeras's mind, even a lifeless universe was better than one dominated by the Void. Life had taken root in the cosmos before. Perhaps after the physical universe was scoured of corruption, life would take root once again. This idea horrified the rest of the Pantheon and Sargeras, overcome with despair and feelings of betrayal, stormed away from the other titans. He knew well that his kin would never see reason. And if they would not help him expel the void lords' corruption, then he would do it. This was the last time the titans of the Pantheon would see him as one of their own.

So I don't think you're in the right for saying Legion turned order to chaos. Sargeras would've eventually gotten rid of Legion, leaving the cosmos in lesser state of entropy (chaos), thus regaining order in it. Void on the other hand thrives on chaos and misfortune.

Have you ideas of which faction(s) you want to be playable?

I'm considering only the melee races. Maybe allies could use demonic races or so. This is because:
1. Player doesn't have to learn a new tech tree
2. Custom hotkeys will work
3. Blizzard assets used: Reforged compatible
4. Player can focus on figuring out the mission, not the race
How this ties into the giant proportions the story would entertain, I've no idea.

 

[deepstrasz]

So I don't think you're in the right for saying Legion turned order to chaos. Sargeras would've eventually gotten rid of Legion, leaving the cosmos in lesser state of entropy (chaos), thus regaining order in it. Void on the other hand thrives on chaos and misfortune.

When Sargeras tried to defeat the demons he went into a depression. What makes you think he won't do the same afterwards and lose ?

1. Player doesn't have to learn a new tech tree

A good campaign doesn't recycle material.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

When Sargeras tried to defeat the demons he went into a depression. What makes you think he won't do the same afterwards and lose ?

Maybe, maybe not. This would be outside the scope of the campaign though, so luckily I don't have to delve into such nuances.

A good campaign doesn't recycle material.

Why?

 

[deepstrasz]

Why?

Because playing the same thing over and over again is boring. You had to do that at least two times in the original campaigns.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

If a mission grows boring on you, why would you jump into blaming the tech tree? I don't see the connection. Isn't it the objective itself failing to be exciting?

 

[deepstrasz]

If a mission grows boring on you, why would you jump into blaming the tech tree? I don't see the connection. Isn't it the objective itself failing to be exciting?

A map maker has to be creative in all aspects.

 

[cleavinghammer]

I think he means different units and upgrades, not necessarily making an entirely new techtree from scratch.

Several campaigns (like the Forsaken one, or even Wings of Liberty) just give an optional new ability to standard units, and that makes for some interesting gameplay changes.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

A map maker has to be creative in all aspects.

Sure, but that doesn't mandate new tech tree creation, lol.

Edit:

Several campaigns (like the Forsaken one, or even Wings of Liberty) just give an optional new ability to standard units, and that makes for some interesting gameplay changes.

Oh, I see. Well in that sense, I could provide Mercenary Camps with such custom folk. That way both me as a tech tree purist and @deepstrasz as a demanding customer are satisfied.

 

[deepstrasz]

Oh, I see. Well in that sense, I could provide Mercenary Camps with such custom folk.

Sloppy. Why not enhance the usual techtrees.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

Sloppy. Why not enhance the usual techtrees.

For reasons enlisted in this post.

Or...

 

[deepstrasz]

For reasons enlisted in this post.

Suit yourself. Don't expect good ratings.

 

[cleavinghammer]

So what's the theme of the campaign? Humans scrounging around for ways to survive, tauren having to deal with a demonic invasion, night elves at a loss for what to do?

 

[Deleted member 219079]

So what's the theme of the campaign? Humans scrounging around for ways to survive, tauren having to deal with a demonic invasion, night elves at a loss for what to do?

Well, we see Jaina, Thrall, Tyrande and Malfurion surviving in the RoC mission, so it's only reasonable that they stick together, trying to scavenge enough forces to battle Archimonde. They know that there's no time to retreat to lick wounds, because they wouldn't be of match for Sargeras, would Archimonde's summoning go uninterrupted.

Perhaps I could let the player decide which race to control, while UD AI would batter the two other allies to dust. In that time period, the player would have to interrupt Archimonde's summoning. It would be unrealistic for the player to succeed, so perhaps midway the mission would happen a revelation: either Void intervenes or Archimonde's betrayal comes apparent.

 

[deepstrasz]

Well, we see Jaina, Thrall, Tyrande and Malfurion surviving in the RoC mission, so it's only reasonable that they stick together, trying to scavenge enough forces to battle Archimonde. They know that there's no time to retreat to lick wounds, because they wouldn't be of match for Sargeras, would Archimonde's summoning go uninterrupted.

So, they manage to stay alive?

Perhaps I could let the player decide which race to control, while UD AI would batter the two other allies to dust. In that time period, the player would have to interrupt Archimonde's summoning. It would be unrealistic for the player to succeed, so perhaps midway the mission would happen a revelation: either Void intervenes or Archimonde's betrayal comes apparent.

So, you've decided on the summoning of Sargeras? It's gonna be a pretty fast campaign considering the obvious results.
Or maybe, Archimond traps Sargeras halfway in the summoning portal so that part of the titan will be on Azeroth and the other part where the titan was supposed to be summoned from?

 

[cleavinghammer]

Thing is, I really don't see a plausible way for the campaign to go on from such a bad start, considering that the Scourge doesn't pose a threat and can't be counted on to distract the Legion.

The leaders escaping is fine, a small army forming from the survivors as well, but then we'd see what are basically refugees somehow managing to reestablish themselves as a threat to the Legion, even if it is turning on itself (and even that would only happen once Sargeras gets involved): the Legion basically has no excuse not to steamroll over everything in Kalimdor.

Consider that the Alliance is limited to what Jaina could bring from the east, the orcs lost a good chunk of their numbers to the fels, the night elves are scattered throughout an entire continent. The natives would be of uncertain help (the satyrs serve the Legion, the tauren have the centaur and harpies to deal with, the naga hate the night elves...), and I don't know what Medhiv could add that could actually help.

 

[deepstrasz]

Thing is, I really don't see a plausible way for the campaign to go on from such a bad start, considering that the Scourge doesn't pose a threat and can't be counted on to distract the Legion.

IKR? But that's what Sainty wants.

and I don't know what Medhiv could add that could actually help.

And if we're to consider WoW bore, Medivh is still supposed to be corrupted/influenced by Sargeras. However, if not... Medivh and possibly the return of Khadgar and co. through the Twisting Nether from Draenor (Beyond the Dark Portal; late because the journey was hard and long and unpredictable) might make it somewhat viable.

 

[cleavinghammer]

He's still corrupted by then? I thought his entire role in 3 was to correct what he'd done while possessed in earlier games.

 

[deepstrasz]

He's still corrupted by then? I thought his entire role in 3 was to correct what he'd done while possessed in earlier games.

Sure, here, it's different but you get the idea. No more Medivh, at least, on the good side?

EDIT:
or maybe they just left him out of the story after RoC (except for Caverns of Time events) and that video I linked serves as a RoC ending reboot (no guardians, together we shall thrive). But the, where is Medivh? Doesn't he care anymore?
I guess, the character could be used to aid Azeroth again, this time, maybe even directly, not just as a prophet.

 

[cleavinghammer]

He'd probably be in a funk after the battle ends and his plan fails.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

Thing is, I really don't see a plausible way for the campaign to go on from such a bad start, considering that the Scourge doesn't pose a threat and can't be counted on to distract the Legion. [...]

Velen, along with his eredar refugess (the draenei), when discovering Draenor and orcs on it, established diplomacy and trade with the orcs. It wasn't until the orc were corrupted by the Legion that worked under the word of Sargeras when things went South. This leads me to believe that the eredar don't hold grudge towards other peoples, only Sargeras does. We know Archimonde chose power over independence, so perhaps he doesn't value seizing regions, rather powerful entities within them? On top of that, I doubt he'd be big on endless conflict as an eredar: "The Eredar [...] upheld a peaceful way of life".

As to my Void take: Only the most powerful of Void Lords can manifest in the physical realm, and only for short periods of time. Perhaps Archimonde would battle them, and the surviving party would be weak enough for the player to topple?

I'm fine with the player ending up taking refuge on another planet, though.

 

[cleavinghammer]

I'm not sure a guy called Archimonde the Destroyer who magically annihilates a city onscreen is going to pursue a peaceful way of life.


So basically, the plot goes something like this:

Heroes escape Hyjal.
Heroes recognize the situation is hopeless, and escape to Draenor.
Heroes meet non-demonic Eredar, and ally with them.
Meanwhile Archimonde starts trying to bring in Sargeras/plotting against him, and either fights Void Lords or even Sargeras himself, weakening his hold over the world in the process.
Heroes go around Draenor, learn Archimonde is weakened, return to Azeroth, defeat Archimonde.

 

[deepstrasz]

Velen, along with his eredar refugess (the draenei), when discovering Draenor and orcs on it, established diplomacy and trade with the orcs. It wasn't until the orc were corrupted by the Legion that worked under the word of Sargeras when things went South. This leads me to believe that the eredar don't hold grudge towards other peoples, only Sargeras does.

This is a WoW retcon. In Warcraft III's RoC manual, the eredar are a demonic force that turn other races from various planets into demons.
The eredar were not Draenei. Well, now in WoW it was Sargeras who turned the eredar evil (lol; I mean draenei to eredar). It doesn't even make sense for the red planet to be called Draenor as the orcs are the natives. Draenei came later (WoW says that). Thus, that would've meant that the Draenei gave the planet name and raised the orcs from their primitive state to be able to talk, use magic, whatever and because of the demons they attacked the Draenei (this last sentence; no Warcraft material says this; my speculation).
In Warcraft II's manual, the Draenei were a native race which was decimated by the orcs. That's it. Still does not make sense or it's not explained why the planet is called Draenor and not Orcnor or whatever.

so perhaps he doesn't value seizing regions, rather powerful entities within them?

As I wrote, both the demons and corrupted Sargeras were spreading chaos throughout the universe, not destroying it.

As to my Void take: Only the most powerful of Void Lords can manifest in the physical realm, and only for short periods of time. Perhaps Archimonde would battle them, and the surviving party would be weak enough for the player to topple?

Never liked the lame old gods-void lords premise. It's a thing started (and ended in RoC's manual) and continued in WoW so there would be bosses and cartoony intrigues. They're a negative deus ex machina McGuffin.

Heroes escape Hyjal.
Heroes recognize the situation is hopeless, and escape to Draenor.

Noice, only Draenor is a dying planet.

Heroes meet non-demonic Eredar, and ally with them.

Velen and the WoW Draenei.

Meanwhile Archimonde starts trying to bring in Sargeras/plotting against him, and either fights Void Lords or even Sargeras himself, weakening his hold over the world in the process.

This is basically Sainty's decisive action, whether to go with Archimonde vs Sargeras or the lame path of the old gods/void lords no one has ever heard of in any of the Warcraft RTSs unless they read the RoC manual. This part is the most important one and has to be given thorough thought. It should not necessarily be one of those two or both plot lines. It can be something totally different. Here's where careful planning is required, methinks.

Heroes go around Draenor, learn Archimonde is weakened, return to Azeroth, deafeat Archimonde.

In a spaceship? I don't get it. This would be uninteresting because that would mean that the heroes would have to do nothing but wait. Are we to play with Archimonde then? Who's story are we to relate to?
There can be two playable plots. The one where the heroes actually do something to address the Azeroth situation and the other one where Archimonde tries not to lose his grasp over Azeroth.

 

[cleavinghammer]

Not deliberately aiming for Draenor, more like "this world is screwed, let's find a different one, oh hey there's a portal back in Dalaran and most of the demons are in Kalimdor, might as well use it."

They only figure out which world they're on once it's too late to change the destination. And go back via the same means once they hear the good news about Archimonde, having been trying to rebuild their lives on Draenor in the interim.

Broken Draenei could still be around as NH enemies.

 

[deepstrasz]

Yeah. Another idea would be to include the demonworld (of the eredar/draenei) Argus. Most of the troops from there would go to Azeroth, and our heroes after meeting the Draenei on Draenor (if we don't include the Burning Crusade where the Draenei left Draenor and are on Azeroth) would proceed towards Argus to liberate it thus making that planet the new home (or something like that). Meanwhile, mucho demonica infighting on Azeroth and stuff.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

I'm not sure a guy called Archimonde the Destroyer who magically annihilates a city onscreen is going to pursue a peaceful way of life.

I can't believe I'm confronted with such prejudice in 2019

Heroes recognize the situation is hopeless, and escape to Draenor.

Escape, as in all denizens on Azeroth take refuge in Draenor, or as in only the heroes go there and seek for help? If it's the former, I'm visualizing a mission akin to the TFT HU bonus one, just with melee base-building.

Meanwhile Archimonde starts trying to bring in Sargeras/plotting against him, and either fights Void Lords or even Sargeras himself, weakening his hold over the world in the process.

I picture this as the second mission, where the player takes the side of Archimonde, Scourge and (if vs Sargeras only the Archimonde-loyal forces of) Legion. Player would control UD forces along with Archimonde, maybe along with some demons for hire.

As I wrote, both the demons and corrupted Sargeras were spreading chaos throughout the universe, not destroying it.

Corrupted Sargeras? And Sargeras definitely wants to rid universe of everything susceptible to corruption of the Void. That is, everything.

 

[deepstrasz]

Corrupted Sargeras? And Sargeras definitely wants to rid universe of everything susceptible to corruption of the Void. That is, everything.

Duh, after he became evil. Well, that makes Sargie the most nihilistic entity ever.

That is, everything.

Maybe that's where Archimonde and the other demons come into play.

I picture this as the second mission, where the player takes the side of Archimonde, Scourge and (if vs Sargeras only the Archimonde-loyal forces of) Legion. Player would control UD forces along with Archimonde, maybe along with some demons for hire.

Velen, Archimonde, Kil'jaeden vs Sargeras.

 

[cleavinghammer]

Escape as in they run like hell from Ashenvale, maybe run into the Tauren, but realize that while they can't just stay there and wait for the Legion to catch up, they simply have no way of fighting back against the Legion. Someone (Medhiv?) comes up with the plan of leaving this world via the portal, banking on most Legion forces being concentrated in Kalimdor (and with Tichondrius and Mannoroth dead, under less capable leadership).

They go back east (if by sea, good spot for a level with the naga or Illidan), fight their way to Dalaran (maybe Jaina tries to get some help from Kul Tiras and Gilneas, but given the presence of orcs in the refugee fleet...), and go through the portal. Once they're through, they realize where they are.

Even after meeting the uncorrupted draenei, they realize that they can't go back for now (say the portal shut down and now requires great power to start up again), so they might as well try to make a new life here (other plot hooks: un-fel the local fel orcs, kill Magtheridon, fix the land, find the Alliance heroes from Beyond the Dark Portal).

As for Archimonde, maybe have several levels with him so the player sees his plans go beyond "kill everything on the planet mwahahahaha". And show him killing the Lich King at some point to establish that the Scourge won't be a threat.

How many levels will there be?

 

[deepstrasz]

Escape as in they run like hell from Ashenvale, maybe run into the Tauren,

But the tauren were part of the Horde during the Twilight of the Gods.

Someone (Medhiv?) comes up with the plan of leaving this world via the portal

Or maybe Khadgar who returns with all or part of the heroes from Beyond the Dark Portal to only realize that they are in if not bigger trouble and they have to get back to Draenor (or not because it's a dying world?).

hooks: un-fel the local fel orcs, kill Mannoroth

With the aid of the Draenei. Well, Mannoroth is already dead by the last RoC night elf level. Magtheridon, maybe? We also got to fit Illidan and the naga somewhere. Will he go back to being a demon servant or not?

As for Archimonde, maybe have several levels with him so the player sees his plans go beyond "kill everything on the planet mwahahahaha".

Character development is very important. Sainty, don't mess it up.

 

[cleavinghammer]

As in the ones who didn't join the Ashenvale expedition (as far as I can tell, only Cairne's tribe went with them, and because he owed the orcs).

Yes, I meant Magtheridon. Demon names all sound the same to me.

The fixing Draenor one would be more for the Night Elves (and possibly tauren), since druidism is their thing. So Draenor missions would be more along the lines of Rexar's campaign / Wings of Liberty's subplots, where you can start one plotline and finish it, or switch to another line (and a different army); Alliance/Horde/NE -> find BTDPers/kill Magtheridon/ fix the land and work out what to do with the Draenei.

Once all plots are finished, the idea of going back to Azeroth comes up.

 

[Tuwnew]

they go to pandaria xd

 

[deepstrasz]

they go to pandaria xd

As a planet, I agree, as a hidden huge island, lol.

The fixing Draenor one would be more for the Night Elves (and posibly tauren), since druidism is their thing. So Draenor missions would be more along the lines of Rexar's campaign / Wings of Liberty's subplots, where you can start one plotline and finish it, or switch to another line (and a different army); Alliance/Horde/NE -> find BTDPers/kill Magtheridon/ fix the land and work out what to do with the Draenei.

Also, some of the BtdP orc/horde heroes could still be alive. Heck, even Deathwing and maybe on Draenor? Maybe, the drake will aid them too instead of going WoW berserk.

 

[cleavinghammer]

I think Deathwing was already corrupted (in the W3 manual, at least).

 

[deepstrasz]

I think Deathwing was already corrupted (in the W3 manual, at least).

Well, in Warcraft II, Deathwing was just an evil dragon. In Warcraft III it does not even say that Neltharion (one of the 5 dragon aspects) is Deathwing. The Demon Soul has only to do with the Dragonmaw clan. It's all artistic license I think that came in those books and adapted into WoW. So, there's nothing about Deathwing and corruption.

 

[cleavinghammer]

No, it does have Neltharion and Deathwing as leading the Black Dragonflight, but it doesn't mention anything about how he went bad. I must have remembered the DotD campaign.

 

[deepstrasz]

No, it does have Neltharion and Deathwing as leading the Black Dragonflight,

Nope. Only Deathwing is mentioned as the lord of the Black Dragonflight. Neltharion is not even mentioned as a black dragon. You only surmise.

 

[cleavinghammer]

They identify each of the four others with their flight's color, it's not hard to guess.