Archimonde & Kil'jaeden

[A Void]

Kil'jaeden

Kil'jaeden is a powerful eredar demon lord and is the acting leader of the Burning Legion. Elected twenty-five thousand years ago as the chief lieutenant of Sargeras, he was ranked above the now-deceased demon lord, Archimonde.

While Archimonde had led the Legion's armies, Kil'jaeden's agenda was to assimilate every race possible into the folds of the Burning Legion.

Kil'jaeden was charged with more covert operations and recruiting new races and minions into the Legion.

He is also the creator of the Lich King.

Skin Color: Orange.

Status: Alive.

Archimonde

Archimonde was the left hand of the fallen titan Sargeras. Archimonde was one of the greatest and darkest of the eredar.

His ruthless and cunning personality quickly earned him station and power within the eredar ranks, until finally he was one of the first among them. He is described as one of the lieutenants and generals of Sargeras.

Archimonde was appointed as the field commander of the Legion's forces, directing troop movements and overseeing military invasions.

Skin Color: Blue.

Status: Deceased(?).
(?) - It is possible that Archimonde is still alive but gravely wounded in the Twisting Nether. It also is clear that demons can return after death to the Twisting Nether plane. Currently there are no clues of whether Archimonde is still alive.

Which one is your favorite character, Kil'jaeden or Archimonde?

 

[Heinvers]

Archimonde of course, his overly grown arrogance called to me.

Nah, just by 'cleaning' his 'failures' (killing, subordinates) proved that he had no patience and lots of strength.

While I do appreciate Kil'jaeden's background scheming, yeah he had a whole army of underlings to do his biding and on top of that being more gentle as opposed to his brother's brutal way he's just not my style.

Archimonde was all about getting power, basking in glory and becoming as the likes of Sargeras (yeah he was THAT ambitious). He just aimed for higher existence. Being jealous of the Kaldorei's immortality proved that he could not stand rivals in therms of existence and opposition. Dunno, I just like his 'man' of action look and personality.

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It is possible that Archimonde is still alive but gravely wounded in the Twisting Nether.

I suppose that's a possibility, albeit a blank one since the spirits greatly drained him during Hyjal event.

If he's out there (I'm not saying that he is or he's not), he could be recuperating and plotting his return (knowing Blizz I bet he COULD be) and exacting his revenge upon the Elves once more. Figures.

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He is also the creator of the Lich King.

I still hate him for that. Curse his name.
I have no idea what was he thinking by creating THAT thing but I bet it was NOT a very wise decision knowing Ner'zhul and his hatred towards him.
He should've known that this will one day bounce back against him. Damn, another one of the demon lords getting overconfident about his plans.

 

[A Void]

My favorite character is Archimonde as-well. Not because of his power or arrogance, but because of cunning and intellect. In-fact was very intelligent but had very big arrogance. Of course who would have expected such a trap? Not even Kil'jaeden...

I suppose that's a possibility, albeit a blank one since the spirits greatly drained him during Hyjal event.

If he's out there (I'm not saying that he is or he's not), he could be recuperating and plotting his return (knowing Blizz I bet he COULD be) and exacting his revenge upon the Elves once more. Figures.

That could explain why Kil'jaeden paid so little attention to his brother's death.

"However, the Legion suffered a major setback when the rogue night elf Illidan Stormrage stole the Skull and used its powers to kill Tichondrius. Archimonde seemed to have little concern for this loss, and placed his most loyal Dreadlord, Anetheron in joint command of the Scourge with Rage Winterchill, one of the few trustworthy liches." - Wiki

Dreadlords can never be permanently killed without proper knowledge on how to do it. Archimonde had little concern for Tichondrius's death because he knew that Tichondrius is still alive. That could also count for Kil'jaeden as he paid little concern over Archimonde's death.

EDIT: In WoW: BC, Kael'thas Sunstrider yells: "All for what? Trinkets? You are too late. The preparations have already begun. Soon the master will make his return".

His supposed master was in-fact Kil'jaeden, but Kil'jaeden was never in Azeroth. So how can Kil'jaeden make his return if he never was there in the first place? The only one was Archimonde, unless Keal'thas was speaking about someone else.

 

[WhiteFang]

I think its pretty obvious judging by my username xD
He is just so powerfull and intelligent,ruthless and cunning.Also,dat voice,so gud!

It is possible that Archimonde is still alive but gravely wounded in the Twisting Nether. It also is clear that demons can return after death to the Twisting Nether plane. Currently there are no clues of whether Archimonde is still alive.

I believe he is still alive

 

[Dr Super Good]

When WC3 was produced Archimonde and Kil'jaeden were both physical incarnations of chaos opposed to the gods. Their race was something like "Eradar Warlock" which were beings spawned directly from chaos. They were recruited by the titan Sargeras after he trapped them permanently and became corrupted realising that his duty was entirely pointless so became the front of the demon invasion.

Archimonde's power was without equal among all demons due to being the embodiment of chaos. Kil'jaeden also possessed unimaginable power due to being also of pure chaos however he preferred a more back seat approach working in the background spreading chaos and seldom seen. Who was stronger was not mentioned however Archimonde was stated as the leader (below Sargeras who was in a destroyed for) so Kil'jaeden must have been second in command and likely a close friend of Archimonde.

Archimonde's destruction by the World Tree was likely not permanent as being an entity of pure Chaos and possessing unimaginable power he could not truly be destroyed, at least in spirit.

Or so was their stories at the time of WC3. Obviously WoW changed all that, similar to how Diablo III changed stuff about Diablo II. Now they are both stupid Dranari children who are weak as... well... children.

This is why I changed my avatar to Amon. Unlike Archimonde, Amon can still destroy entire planets using impossible beings of unimaginable power and will be doing so in the upcoming game StarCraft II: Legacy of the Void.

 

[Deleted member 242951]

My favourite is Kil'jadaen cause Archimonde did nothing other than being a threat for a few decades but Kiljaedaen made the Great Lich King who is still a threat to all the races.... Even if he dies Arthas is still there as his descendant. Even if archimonde is more powerful but kiljadaen has created one of the most powerful weaponTHE LICH KING

 

[Daffa]

My favourite is Kil'jadaen cause Archimonde did nothing other than being a threat for a few decades but Kiljaedaen made the Great Lich King who is still a threat to all the races.... Even if he dies Arthas is still there as his descendant. Even if archimonde is more powerful but kiljadaen has created one of the most powerful weaponTHE LICH KING

Nerzhul and Arthas died in WotLK.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Archimonde could destroy entire cities in an instant with his hands alone. Even in his full power form the Lich King could not have taken on Warcraft III Archimonde. Sure the Lich King possessed huge numbers of undead but Archimonde possessed thousands of worlds from which he could summon an as good as infinite supply of demons. He only was defeated through trickery and at a cost so great it changed the planet forever.

 

[Chaosy]

I'd say Archimonde. Pretty interesting character, and badass too.

Archimonde could destroy entire cities in an instant with his hands alone.

Even in his full power form the Lich King could not have taken on Warcraft III Archimonde.

This is pretty logical. The Lich King was created by Kil'Jaeden, and he (Kil'Jaeden) is more or less equal to Archimone.

 

[A Void]

When WC3 was produced Archimonde and Kil'jaeden were both physical incarnations of chaos opposed to the gods. Their race was something like "Eradar Warlock" which were beings spawned directly from chaos. They were recruited by the titan Sargeras after he trapped them permanently and became corrupted realising that his duty was entirely pointless so became the front of the demon invasion.

Archimonde's power was without equal among all demons due to being the embodiment of chaos. Kil'jaeden also possessed unimaginable power due to being also of pure chaos however he preferred a more back seat approach working in the background spreading chaos and seldom seen. Who was stronger was not mentioned however Archimonde was stated as the leader (below Sargeras who was in a destroyed for) so Kil'jaeden must have been second in command and likely a close friend of Archimonde.

Archimonde's destruction by the World Tree was likely not permanent as being an entity of pure Chaos and possessing unimaginable power he could not truly be destroyed, at least in spirit.

Or so was their stories at the time of WC3. Obviously WoW changed all that, similar to how Diablo III changed stuff about Diablo II. Now they are both stupid Dranari children who are weak as... well... children.

This is why I changed my avatar to Amon. Unlike Archimonde, Amon can still destroy entire planets using impossible beings of unimaginable power and will be doing so in the upcoming game StarCraft II: Legacy of the Void.

Archimonde and Kil'jaeden are not beings of pure chaos, they are eredar mortals who were given unimaginable power by Sargeras in return for loyalty.

However, just as Medivh managed to return having been killed, it is possible that anyone can with proper knowledge, after all.. Only Book of Medivh had knowledge to summon demons as powerful as Archimonde.

Immortality in Warcraft Universe is a rather odd subject, in Warcraft 1 Medivh was clearly killed (he was possessed by Sargeras), but in Warcraft 3 he returned completely normal. Medivh could also be a demon, when Thrall calls Medivh a human, he replies: "I Left my humanity long time ago, I am something bigger now."

WC3 Lore wasn't entire established back then. I could also say the same to WC1 & WC2.

Could you provide sources of information?

 

[VeljkoM]

In wc2 we only had Kil'jaden as generic demon, in wc3 we had Archimonde as cliche Demon Lord and that is why DSG said immortal beings spawned from Chaos, that is what demons were supposed to generally be. And tft Kil'Jaden was just there making deals with no actual mention of his position in legion. Until WoW BC they were demons that corrupted Sargeras and not the other way around. Whole Draenei thing was biggest retcon in warcraft caused by Blizzard forgetting they ever wrote manuals for their games and already had lore (they did it again with Sc2, they simply don't really keep track of stuff they wrote decade ago).

Anyway both characters are bad and boring. Cardboard cut outs of villains (ok not like Warcraft has that great villains, but legion is obviously by now replaced by Old Gods as true villains). We are just told that they are "intelligent" and shown that they are powerful man children. Also why would Kil'Jaden care if his brother died, they are demons, it just means less competition for being the sole leader of Legion. Think of Villainy as corporate business with no room for emotions just ambition and profit.

And Medivh was resurrected by his mother and is now free of possession, in wc3 he was supposed to be amending for his crimes against all that is good. Most of his lore is not in games anyway just manuals and novels.





Oh and I pick Archimonde because he is green.

 

[chr2]

There's not really a source that explains how Sargeras was really corrupted, but he was already corrupted when he visited Argus. Some suggestions indicate that it was the Nathrezim that got to him, which, for me, seems more likely with their mind control powers and all.

Also, I'm not sure the ability to ressurect in the Twisting Nether is something all demons possess. So far, the Nathrezim are the only race seen doing that (as far as I know). I don't think we'll be seeing Archimonde again (not in OUR timeline anyway *cough* raid boss in WoD *cough*).

In WoW: BC, Kael'thas Sunstrider yells: "All for what? Trinkets? You are too late. The preparations have already begun. Soon the master will make his return".

His supposed master was in-fact Kil'jaeden, but Kil'jaeden was never in Azeroth. So how can Kil'jaeden make his return if he never was there in the first place? The only one was Archimonde, unless Keal'thas was speaking about someone else.

Well, Kil'jaeden did appear before Illidan a couple times (in Azeroth as well). Considering the time Kael spent with Illidan, he might've been told about this, but I think it's more likely a slip-up on Blizzard's part. I certainly don't think Kael had any contact with Archi (even if he was still alive).

So, even though Archimonde was probably more powerful than Kil'jaeden, he also managed to get himself killed (going with the assumption that he actually is dead), while Kil'jaeden, albeit hurt from his encounter at the Sunwell, is still alive and likely plotting. I'll have to go with the obviously smarter one; the red Kil'jaeden.

 

[Heinvers]

@chr2 you just have a thing for men in red dresses, I mean uniforms, don't you? >

 

[Dr Super Good]

Could you provide sources of information?

All records have been destroyed by being updated to the current WoW lore long ago. The change was made after some fan spotted some supposed discontinuity/illogicality.

 

[A Void]

All records have been destroyed by being updated to the current WoW lore long ago. The change was made after some fan spotted some supposed discontinuity/illogicality.

So.. nothing? No archives, no anything? Well, I think that the current plot (Warcraft 1 - up to Warcraft III TfT) is good enough.

#chr2

Kil'jaeden never was summoned in Azeroth fully, Sargeras wasn't summoned fully also. The only one who was summoned was Archimonde.

 

[VeljkoM]

There still has to be somewhere Warcraft 3 manual. I can only find for Warcraft 1 and 2 which are quite interesting to read. I miss those simpler and clear times.

And well how do you call that one time when Kil'Jaden stood in front of Illidan and talked to him? Astral Projecting?

 

[A Void]

There still has to be somewhere Warcraft 3 manual. I can only find for Warcraft 1 and 2 which are quite interesting to read. I miss those simpler and clear times.

And well how do you call that one time when Kil'Jaden stood in front of Illidan and talked to him? Astral Projecting?

he was not really there, yeah possibly astral projection. tough astral projection requires a demon gate or a portal.... so i wonder how did kil'jaeden managed to act astral projection?

 

[chr2]

@A Void
Yeah, I know he was never on Azeroth in person (at least not before Kael'thas made that quote, and even after that, he was never fully there). That's why I said it was probably a slip-up on Blizz's part. In any case, I'm pretty sure Kael was referring to Kil'jaeden.

"tough astral projection requires a demon gate or a portal"
I'm not really sure where you're getting this from. I know some Burning Legion leaders have been known to use machines that project a holographic image of them to communicate with one another (like Socrethar in Netherstorm and Archimonde in that Toy thing you get in WoD). However, Kil'jaeden was able to appear before Ner'zhul and Gul'dan too, and others (non-demons too) have been able to do the same through magic.

 

[Dr Super Good]

So.. nothing? No archives, no anything? Well, I think that the current plot (Warcraft 1 - up to Warcraft III TfT) is good enough.

WoW re-wrote a lot. You must be too young to remember the SC2search news announcement of the lore change that demoted Archimonde. Rui should still remember as he was around then (although highly inactive due to school if I recall).

The Dranari, who Archimonde is now one of, used to be just mutants as seen in WC3: TFT. They were revised for World of Warcraft into the more human, blue skinned with tail people we known now. Archimonde is one of them and I would not be surprised if Blizzard did not change this lore aspect specifically so they could have a playable race of Archimonde look-alikes.

Everything about Archimonde in WC3 demonstrated a being that just could not lose, a demi-god, a spawn of a force beyond mortals. WC3 did not particularly emphasise his history however, with World of Warcraft forcing the creation of back stories. Their "original draft" was altered due to some fan complaint during which Archimonde was ultimately defined as a mortal Dranari Warlock as he stands today. This fits with the World Tree time warp event in World of Warcraft (now removed?) that allowed players to fight both him and Kil'jaeden at a low level (especially relative to now).

As a result of them being demoted to rather pathetic bosses, I changed my avatar to the "fallen one" later revealed as Amon.

 

[A Void]

As a result of them being demoted to rather pathetic bosses, I changed my avatar to the "fallen one" later revealed as Amon.

I wonder if that Thread is archived? Probably.

Amon is from Starcraft II, he is just as Archimonde was at Warcraft 3. He will start his plan and will be defeated by the alliance( Zerg, Protoss, Terran) just like in Warcraft 3 (Humans, Orcs, Night Elves). Blizzard is recycling the plot structure a lot recently from all the previous games.

At any point in future they will be pretty happy to make Amon just as where you describe Archimonde stands in WoW.

 

[A Void]

bump.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Amon is from Starcraft II, he is just as Archimonde was at Warcraft 3. He will start his plan and will be defeated by the alliance( Zerg, Protoss, Terran) just like in Warcraft 3 (Humans, Orcs, Night Elves). Blizzard is recycling the plot structure a lot recently from all the previous games.

Except Amon is who he is, not some incarnation of evil that gets demoted to a mortal due to a MMORPG. Only reason I used Archimonde as an avatar was he was awesome, now he is no longer as awesome as he was.

At any point in future they will be pretty happy to make Amon just as where you describe Archimonde stands in WoW.

Unlikely. They invest more into plot writing now than they did back in WC3 due to the size they are now. He might be revised for StarCraft III or whatever they use the IP for that is cannon but that is still probably a decade away.

The problem with WC3 was that Archimonde did not really have a back story. They tried to fill one in for WoW which is why it ended up being changed during a revision. This is similar to Diablo where from Diablo II to III much changed as there was no real consistency when they made II (they wanted to make a game, not an immersive well defined world).

StarCraft II suffered similar from I to II as they tried to make everything more consistent. However now that it is consistent the chance of it being changed is low. Amon has a back story and everyone knows he is a being of the race Xel Naga and not a god. However his power and understanding is still awesome and it is meant to be he is responsible for the Zerg Hive Overmind as well as many other things. He also apparently died at some stage and has been brought back so already that is one up on Archimonde. To top it off his portrait has to be one of the most evil looking one could ever imagine (glowing eyes in artificial darkness) and has the quotes to match.

 

[A Void]

Amon has a back story and everyone knows he is a being of the race Xel Naga and not a god. However his power and understanding is still awesome and it is meant to be he is responsible for the Zerg Hive Overmind as well as many other things. He also apparently died at some stage and has been brought back so already that is one up on Archimonde. To top it off his portrait has to be one of the most evil looking one could ever imagine (glowing eyes in artificial darkness) and has the quotes to match.

Yeah, the same reason Archimonde is not a spawn of chaos or some demon incarnation from hell. He is a being of the race Eredar.

I don't really understand your point?

 

[VeljkoM]

Please Amon was shoehorned in and Blizz basically said "Yeah this guy is actually to blame for everything". Xel'naga did have an actual background in original Starcraft and they were chased away by protoss and many were consumed by Zerg. That should make it clear that Xel'naga are not that powerful when those two factions in their early times defeated them (Zerg were still only on Zerus and lacked almost all strains of zerg we know today). Blizzard didn't make anything consistent, they actually changed many things for no reason and made Starcraft more in to a fantasy genre (fits as Warcraft is actually Sci Fi). If anything Overmind is the one who suffered like Archimonde, from invulnerable omnipotent threat reduced to a innocent puppet. If Starcraft 3 is ever made there will be nothing stopping Blizzard to as per tradition ignore previous games and make story they deem interesting. At this point Amon is Sargeras as both are dead and yet main bad guys in theory while real villains do all work for them and get no credit.

Anyway this rant was off topic so to stay on topic I'll once again say I like Archimonde better. Random reason number 2, he actually got to kill someone himself in game and demonstrate his powers on Dalaran (by this point city is Eldricht Abomination that merely slumbers every time it is destroyed). Kil'Jaden though did regularly kill raiders but those don't stay dead so is more akin to torment from hell for him.

 

[A Void]

Bump.

 

[Arad MNK]

Of course, Archimonde. why? I Dunno. I Just like him lol.

Bump.

Whooo such a Necro-post!

 

[hiphop4eva]

Archimonde. Total badassnes and those quotes:

"Tremble mortals, and despair. (Idk something like that) Doom has come to this world!"

 

[Dr Super Good]

It would seem Archimonde gets killed by mortal heroes. Man he has lost power over time. I mean considering the city of Dalaron was destroyed instantly by himself he now loses to a team of misfit heroes seems to not make much sense. I can imagine him being defeated, but killed?

 

[hiphop4eva]

It would seem Archimonde gets killed by mortal heroes. Man he has lost power over time. I mean considering the city of Dalaron was destroyed instantly by himself he now loses to a team of misfit heroes seems to not make much sense. I can imagine him being defeated, but killed?

Youre right. Blizzard sometimes destroy people's badassnes. Btw, your avatar looks even cooler when it is darker, like Amon's style. But I wanna ask something, why does Amon wear a marine-ish suit?

 

[Dr Super Good]

But I wanna ask something, why does Amon wear a marine-ish suit?

It is likely power armor of sorts.

If you notice its style, it looks a lot like what the Protoss wear. That is because the Protoss were given their technology by the XelNaga.

 

[A Void]

Not to mention that in Warcraft 3 he was divine and not even combined armies of Humans, Orcs and Night Elves couldn't do nothing to him. So how come a group of 30/60 heroes, 10x smaller in numbers than an army could "kill" him? Why couldn't we just kill Archimonde with 30/60 units in War3???

World of Warcraft is crappy game made, I do not consider it cannon nor a game from Warcraft franchise. It ruined enough with time machines and panda islands. Good thing I never even played Vanilla without expansions)

 

[hiphop4eva]

It is likely power armor of sorts.

If you notice its style, it looks a lot like what the Protoss wear. That is because the Protoss were given their technology by the XelNaga.

Amon doesnt require any sort of suit, he is powerful enough.

It ruined enough with time machines and panda islands.

I acutally would like to see Pandaria in War4.

 

[A Void]

Amon doesnt require any sort of suit, he is powerful enough.



I acutally would like to see Pandaria in War4.

Pandarians were an easter-egg in War3, they did not exist in the lore or in the books. WoW MoP made up the whole lore about panda islands protected by the mist or sth.

First time we've seen pandarians in Warcraft 3

The screen-shot above was early beta of Warcraft 3, it was released as an easter-egg in Blizzard website way back then.

 

[VeljkoM]

To be honest idea of Pandarians themselves is not that bad. I mean don't get me wrong I hate wow lore, but considering the number of creep races in warcraft (specifically furbolgs) so Panda race is not that shocking. And them being Asian culture rip offs isn't big deal either as all races are based of real life cultures anyway. On my hate list always come first Titans and Time travel.

But back to arguing which demonic overlord is better at loosing. I was sure that even in WoW players don't actually get to defeat Archimonde personally as Wips come as usual and kill him. So both in Wc3 and WoW it is wisps not the psychopathic heralds of chaos... I mean "players" don't kill Archimonde. Actually boss battles in WoW are not canon in story as backstory often attributes actual characters. Now I think it is fair to question if Archimonde was really killed at all or just banished back to the Twisted Nether. I mean if skirt wearing vampires can't be killed then how come their masters can be?

As for Amon, I can't wait when he gets his inglorious death. What you people see in that wanna be villain sue that hijacked starcraft backtsory I have no idea.

 

[A Void]

To be honest idea of Pandarians themselves is not that bad. I mean don't get me wrong I hate wow lore, but considering the number of creep races in warcraft (specifically furbolgs) so Panda race is not that shocking. And them being Asian culture rip offs isn't big deal either as all races are based of real life cultures anyway. On my hate list always come first Titans and Time travel.

But back to arguing which demonic overlord is better at loosing. I was sure that even in WoW players don't actually get to defeat Archimonde personally as Wips come as usual and kill him. So both in Wc3 and WoW it is wisps not the psychopathic heralds of chaos... I mean "players" don't kill Archimonde. Actually boss battles in WoW are not canon in story as backstory often attributes actual characters. Now I think it is fair to question if Archimonde was really killed at all or just banished back to the Twisted Nether. I mean if skirt wearing vampires can't be killed then how come their masters can be?

As for Amon, I can't wait when he gets his inglorious death. What you people see in that wanna be villain sue that hijacked starcraft backtsory I have no idea.

WoW has one quest that explains what happens to demons when they die, they get sent back to the Twisting Nether as a manifestations without body. Tough the real question is whether Archimonde is a "demon"? He is essentially a Draenei in a branch of Eredar.

As always it is unclear because in War3 Archimonde was referred to as a "great demon lord". But in WoW he is a mortal Eredar that got corrupted by Sargeras.

 

[chr2]

To be honest idea of Pandarians themselves is not that bad. I mean don't get me wrong I hate wow lore, but considering the number of creep races in warcraft (specifically furbolgs) so Panda race is not that shocking. And them being Asian culture rip offs isn't big deal either as all races are based of real life cultures anyway. On my hate list always come first Titans and Time travel.

But back to arguing which demonic overlord is better at loosing. I was sure that even in WoW players don't actually get to defeat Archimonde personally as Wips come as usual and kill him. So both in Wc3 and WoW it is wisps not the psychopathic heralds of chaos... I mean "players" don't kill Archimonde. Actually boss battles in WoW are not canon in story as backstory often attributes actual characters. Now I think it is fair to question if Archimonde was really killed at all or just banished back to the Twisted Nether. I mean if skirt wearing vampires can't be killed then how come their masters can be?

As for Amon, I can't wait when he gets his inglorious death. What you people see in that wanna be villain sue that hijacked starcraft backtsory I have no idea.

Actually, in the newest patch in Warlords of Draenor, the players get to kill Archimonde. Also, there have been a lot of discussions on WoW forums lately about whether Eredar die permanently or get sent back to the Twisting Nether too. Blizzard officials then entered said discussions and added that they do in fact get sent back to the Nether and, if I understood this correctly, the Archimonde we kill in WoD is the same Archimonde who was killed in WC3 because the Twisting Nether surpasses all realities or some bullshit like that.

 

[VeljkoM]

First we must ask what is a demon in Warcraft and World of Warcraft? Problem is that WoW made demons in to aliens and yet still tries to keep demon stereotypical behavior (the whole can't be killed thing and summoning etc). This is contradictory and problematic as Erader, Nathrezim, and rest are clearly alien races from other worlds conquered by Sargeras that just happen to match stereotypical demons.

In Warcraft there is no confusion. Demons are demons and they live in hell. Kil'Jaden and Archimonde are unrelated to Draenei and are great demon lords and that is it.


Also I must admit I have no idea anymore what is going on in current WoW expansion as I stopped caring somewhere around Cataclysm or Mists. I am not masochist, I can't anymore try to understand that which defies rational thought.

 

[Heinvers]

Actually, in the newest patch in Warlords of Draenor, the players get to kill Archimonde. Also, there have been a lot of discussions on WoW forums lately about whether Eredar die permanently or get sent back to the Twisting Nether too. Blizzard officials then entered said discussions and added that they do in fact get sent back to the Nether and, if I understood this correctly, the Archimonde we kill in WoD is the same Archimonde who was killed in WC3 because the Twisting Nether surpasses all realities or some bullshit like that.

Yeah, apparently Alex Afrasiabi also confirmed this on Twitter.
Here's the link.

 

[Dr Super Good]

The screen-shot above was early beta of Warcraft 3, it was released as an easter-egg in Blizzard website way back then.

Actually WC3 gave them a background story when Rexar met Chen Stormstout. He travelled from a far away land and was a fully voiced and playable character. However back then they might as well have been aliens like the rest of the stuff.

But back to arguing which demonic overlord is better at loosing. I was sure that even in WoW players don't actually get to defeat Archimonde personally as Wips come as usual and kill him. So both in Wc3 and WoW it is wisps not the psychopathic heralds of chaos... I mean "players" don't kill Archimonde. Actually boss battles in WoW are not canon in story as backstory often attributes actual characters. Now I think it is fair to question if Archimonde was really killed at all or just banished back to the Twisted Nether. I mean if skirt wearing vampires can't be killed then how come their masters can be?

He looks pretty dead to me at the end of the cinematic, corpse and all. With his dying breath he banishes Guldan through a portal of sorts for failing him.

As for Amon, I can't wait when he gets his inglorious death. What you people see in that wanna be villain sue that hijacked starcraft backtsory I have no idea.

It is all Hybrids. Seeing how one of them can destroy town sized battlecruisers, carries and Ultralisks it says it all. Additionally his taunts are the very definition of awesome.

WoW has one quest that explains what happens to demons when they die, they get sent back to the Twisting Nether as a manifestations without body. Tough the real question is whether Archimonde is a "demon"? He is essentially a Draenei in a branch of Eredar.

The demons in Warcraft can be viewed like the Kree and all other "annex everyone" civilizations. As such they are not truly evil, just they have a different culture and conduct. They do not kill and destroy everyone, and willingly accept anyone who proves their ability to serve. Additionally they do offer their members semi-immortality in the form of "the twisting nether" or whatever so I guess the entire Warcraft was more based around beings wanting to choose their own destiny rather than become gears in a huge war machine..

This is completely different from other Blizzard games. Demons in Diablo series are manifestations of pure evil who by nature are forced to commit evil. As such they were incapable of launching any effective offensive because they would always destroy themselves when victory seemed in sight. They also show little care for even their most loyal of servants, willingly sacrificing them to further themselves. They had no real civilization and all they could construct were sort of "demon architecture" structures which is very different from the fortresses and gates than Warcraft demons were shown to create.

Like wise Amon from StarCraft does not care at all about anything living that is not his Hybrids. Even the Zerg swarm was intended to be destroyed after use like all other beings. Unlike the demons from Warcraft universe there is no way to side with Amon as ultimately if you are not a Hybrid you will be destroyed along with everything else.

Actually, in the newest patch in Warlords of Draenor, the players get to kill Archimonde. Also, there have been a lot of discussions on WoW forums lately about whether Eredar die permanently or get sent back to the Twisting Nether too. Blizzard officials then entered said discussions and added that they do in fact get sent back to the Nether and, if I understood this correctly, the Archimonde we kill in WoD is the same Archimonde who was killed in WC3 because the Twisting Nether surpasses all realities or some bullshit like that.

Well at least he keeps coming back. Unlike most of the poor things you kill like Dragons, Kael, Arthas, Random Fire Lords, Illidan etc. One wonders why Demons are given such bad rep if that is the kind of power they give you.

 

[A Void]

Yeah, apparently Alex Afrasiabi also confirmed this on Twitter.
Here's the link.

So now I'm confused. Is Archimonde a demon or an alien eredar? Or are they all generally prefixed as demons?

Alex Afrasiabi contradicts to his own self, since the official WoW lore states that Archimonde is "Man'Ari Eredar". There is nowhere stating that he is a "demon".

In War3 he was obliterated by thousand of wisps.
In TBC he was in Alternate Universe, re-imagining the event of Hyjal.
In WoD he is found in Hellfire Citadel alive and well, still alive because it's the past. In WoD timeline the third invasion never happened.

So, how is it possible to kill him in the past (WoW: WoD) if you couldn't do nothing to him with all three armies combined in War3?

 

[Dr Super Good]

So, how is it possible to kill him in the past (WoW: WoD) if you couldn't do nothing to him with all three armies combined in War3?

He was all tough and well but when units hit for a billion damage even Divine armor will not keep you alive with only 3,000 health. Basically the same reason Diablo III is getting "Torment X" so that Diablo and Mathael do not suffer a similar fate.

He could also do the Hybrid style "suck life force to revive" thing upon death. Death is only "A temporary setback" after all.

 

[hiphop4eva]

Unlike most of the poor things you kill like Dragons, Kael, Arthas, Random Fire Lords, Illidan etc. One wonders why Demons are given such bad rep if that is the kind of power they give you.

I disagree with the fact that Arthas is a ''poor'' thing. When compared to Archimonde or Amon he is weak, but on his own, considering that he is The Lich King, he is still very strong. Same goes with some of these guys.

 

[Dr Super Good]

I disagree with the fact that Arthas is a ''poor'' thing. When compared to Archimonde or Amon he is weak, but on his own, considering that he is The Lich King, he is still very strong. Same goes with some of these guys.

Well seeing how you are a party of rigged people with over powered gear they hardly stand a chance. Much like Mathael in T6 in Diablo III.

Where are their healers and their free revives?

 

[hiphop4eva]

Well seeing how you are a party of rigged people with over powered gear they hardly stand a chance. Much like Mathael in T6 in Diablo III.

Where are their healers and their free revives?

Thats what I hate about WoW. When they make expansions, the last boss is generally badass but because they need to be killed and because you are just a fucking man it makes them lool like crap

 

[Tash]

In my opinion, WoW destroyed the Warcraft Lore. (IMO)