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Warcraft Classic HD

:peasant-notify: Early access to Farm now open on my Boosty and Patreon! Naturally, I will post it here as well, after some time.

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I really like the Windmill, Barn and Farm, and admire your feel of architecture and thought you put into these buildings. You keep at place and improve all this cool warcraft-y aesthetical nuanced in remastered models such as hay on pedestals, bags with flour, underground base with stairs, stretched fabric on mill blades, and all these pieces of volumetric geometry that keeps it eye-candy and yet very fitting, great, great job! Talent and professional approach in one tandem, that's what I feel when looking at your creations!
 
I really like the Windmill, Barn and Farm, and admire your feel of architecture and thought you put into these buildings. You keep at place and improve all this cool warcraft-y aesthetical nuanced in remastered models such as hay on pedestals, bags with flour, underground base with stairs, stretched fabric on mill blades, and all these pieces of volumetric geometry that keeps it eye-candy and yet very fitting, great, great job! Talent and professional approach in one tandem, that's what I feel when looking at your creations!
Thanks! It's all the more pleasant to read this from such a talented artist. You're one of the few people that inspire me to keep making stuff for Warcraft 3 :peasant-thumbs-up-cheers:
 
Spent this day converting village structures and fighting windmills. Literary. Those sails insisted on looking ugly until I pulled an old trick with "transfer attributes" in Maya and locked the normals in such position that the upward sails always get some light, even when turned away from the sun. Apparently, this is why they made the sails so transparent in the original - to negate shading artifacts.
 
Crazy how we get all these updates for Warcraft but they havent really redid any of the buildings or units that supposely already done..

Good work on these, hopefully we can get more visual updates from them soon but probably not.
Reforged's visual updates were outsourced to a different studio, and they didn't get much direction because funding got pulled from the rest of the project before they were finished. That's why the new models and textures are inconsistent and high fidelity but nothing else looks as good.
 
Reforged's visual updates were outsourced to a different studio, and they didn't get much direction because funding got pulled from the rest of the project before they were finished. That's why the new models and textures are inconsistent and high fidelity but nothing else looks as good.
While Blizzard definitely hold responsibility for letting it go on its own, let's not forget than Lemon Sky studio had their own art director, Brian Sousa, who made all these fantastic decisions that Blizzard overlooked (or encouraged even, we don't know) and that led the remaster to be what it is, in terms of visuals. If it was another studio, with another person in charge of art direction - we could have recieved entirely different visuals.
 
While Blizzard definitely hold responsibility for letting it go on its own, let's not forget than Lemon Sky studio had their own art director, Brian Sousa, who made all these fantastic decisions that Blizzard overlooked (or encouraged even, we don't know) and that led the remaster to be what it is, in terms of visuals. If it was another studio, with another person in charge of art direction - we could have recieved entirely different visuals.
Oh, all the models look beautiful individually. The problem is there's no real cohesion. Sometimes they look like they're from completely different games. A lot of them have a very realistic look that doesn't feel right for Warcraft. I think they did great work, I just don't think they work right for the game they're in, and I think Lemon Sky struggled to try to figure out exactly what to do because Blizzard didn't give them much guidance on what they wanted.

None of these problems are Lemon Sky's fault, btw. It's just a case of bad communication IMO.
 
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Reforged's visual updates were outsourced to a different studio, and they didn't get much direction because funding got pulled from the rest of the project before they were finished. That's why the new models and textures are inconsistent and high fidelity but nothing else looks as good.
I dont mind the reforged models i was just saying that the classic HD just basicly looks the same as the original. It would be nice to get more of a polished "classic" look but we can hope.
 
I dont mind the reforged models i was just saying that the classic HD just basicly looks the same as the original. It would be nice to get more of a polished "classic" look but we can hope.
We've seen that the new team made concepts for an SD+ mode. I don't if they'll ever do it or not but it's cool to think about.
 
Lemon Sky struggled to try to figure out exactly what to do because Blizzard didn't give them much guidance on what they wanted.
And that's where Lemon Sky's art director should have come in to pick a single direction within the studio and maintain it, that's literally his job.

Oh, all the models look beautiful individually.
Frankly, I have to disagree. Some of them look nice, a lot of them are... mediocre, to put it mildly. Especially for a studio that works with AAA companies. I especially dislike how the materials look - colors are dirty, normal maps have a great deal of noise applied for no reason, black and white balance is completely off for PBR pipeline. I wouldn't complain that much if that was a user mod, but for professional studio that's rather low quality.
 
And that's where Lemon Sky's art director should have come in to pick a single direction within the studio and maintain it, that's literally his job.
His job is to give his clients what they ask for, on time and on budget. Blizzard seemed to be satisfied with the final product -- or at least, satisfied enough that they didn't complain.
 
A sneak peek of my next building 💀
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Can you please do a collab with this guy who recreated all orc units in HD?


This only has around 500 views. Sadly due to youtube algorithm he does not get the coverage he deserves

I think it would be great if both of you make a team and work together to remaster wc3. and Hiveworkshop should give you coverage, promote your work. both of you are very underrated artists, sadly.
 
Can you please do a collab with this guy who recreated all orc units in HD?


This only has around 500 views. Sadly due to youtube algorithm he does not get the coverage he deserves

I think it would be great if both of you make a team and work together to remaster wc3. and Hiveworkshop should give you coverage, promote your work. both of you are very underrated artists, sadly.
I like what this man's doing (though there are still some changes to the units' design that I would rather not introduce) but there isn't much to collaborate on - I focus on buildings, and on delivering them to the engine as soon as I finish them, while he does units and distributes them in fbx format. Trying to coordinate each other will just waste our time.
I do agree, however, that some sort of coverage from Hive would be nice, at some point. I still have all my War3HD models pending review, for example - it's been months since I posted them here.
 
Can you please do a collab with this guy who recreated all orc units in HD?


This only has around 500 views. Sadly due to youtube algorithm he does not get the coverage he deserves

I think it would be great if both of you make a team and work together to remaster wc3. and Hiveworkshop should give you coverage, promote your work. both of you are very underrated artists, sadly.
Meshwork is nice if not a bit overly detailed for animations. But textures are very much off. I would preffer to keep all colourschemes literarily 1 to 1 there is absolutely no need to change them and i dont think that every single bit of detail or knuckle has to be so intricately done unless animation is updated to fit like it was with actual War3HD models in SC2.

Design is almost on point for most but some just look wrong mainly due to texture changes. Especially Tauren looks wrong to me like so.

Problem is that when animation stays the same the disonance between Way overdone model detail and texture wise is even more vast. Wc3 doesnt really need to be pushed where it tries to be Reforged but with og designs and animations and new lighting. I just needs to look identical to SD models from afar, but when you zoom in it doesnt show its age by how blocky things are. And for this all it really needs is to go closer to WoW detail level.

It should be more or less how World of Warcraft is with same matte and illustration/comic book alike style texturing for most part. Its a very intricate balancing act. With buildings more could be spared since its not a problem they barely have moving elements and what is there to animate is easier to adapt and keep as is.

I still will stress that texturing and colourscheme are paramount same as balancing the level of detail to not overdo it. Think of Zelda Ocarina of Time 3D vs N64 release for most part, or better yet Resident Evil 4 HD project dor original 2005 re4. A restorative approach.

Wc3 isnt perhaps as directly able to be such as there are inconsistencies and familiarity to some of them to contend with, and not all of artwork samwise did are applicable(footman for example, him being one of the oldest assets in final game doesnt help as its a bit off vs rest of Wc3 asset work in couple ways with conflicting stuff like icon showing him with different shoulderpauldrons and no bouncy visor) but big chunk of other artworks he did are good guides for it, especially Medivh artwork or battle scenes with nightelves or humans vs horde from loading screen. It shows what the colouring and texturing should be and og game is emulating it all over the place. Not doing that on remade assets is quite wrong in my eyes.

i do have something of the sort on my mind but lack of time is just putting anything on hold. I might be more free early next year to get to it. To exemplify how it should look, and how and why to do or not to do certain things, and codify the artstyle and workflow for it. Life just keeps getting in the way lately more and more for me though so i am not exactly able at the moment.

P.S. Another important thing is that we need to "balance the scales" in regard of minding compatibility with existing library of assets. If we overdo and game "escapes" the old asset work in way not to dissimilar to Reforged's misguided HD mode, then we render said content unusable without looking jarring. This is why remastering of Wc3 assets needs to quite precicely be like going from Medium detail of current (high) detail SD models, to high/very high/ultra however we would call it.

In original game example of it is the low quality models that are for Low detail, those some of those are quite ridiculous like Feetless Footman. And for meshwork on characters, extra detail has to be gently and subtly included as to not mess with sillouttes and proportions.

For instance Grunt in that set by Nort3D is way bulkier both the uppder body and his legs(due to thicker shoes and detailwork on them from the texture) and on top of texture work it pretty much falls to similar bullpark or dissimilar look as Reforged one, but in different way. More like its Heroes of The Storm orc grunt derived from Wc3 one.

I would preffer to keep the lean and "sharp" silloutting of orcs in Wc3 as much as possible. Its coming back to it being striking and comicbook art like. Realism shoudlnt be a major factor stylization and cohesiveness with og game should be.

Wc3 is a delicate case because of the modding/mapping community around it and decades worth of assets, which is tenfold as hurtful that it was so woefully misguided and inconsiderate of Sousa to do what he did to the game with his art direction.

We cannot pile up more onto that, just on different side of the fence, it has to precariously balance on top of the fence sort of speak. It also should get as far away of Sousa's view of original art as worthless of obsolete, so any seemingly accidental aspects of the look of them that might be just choked up to "low poliness" of them shouldnt be done in a blanket way, especially when it will mess with proportions and silloutting too much, though in some cases it is warranted.

if its not something that is part of the outter silloute like arms or hands on say Jaina or Maiev that are shrouded by capes and armour pieces that are the main silloutte, or bits that overtly should be tweaked.(obviously i dont think female characters should remain with their anatomy so aggressively optimized to a point where Jaina has no posterior to speak of 'xD)

So again it's another place for interpretation and experimentation to get things just right. Once Texturing is on point and those "problem areas"(including consideration for legacy assets) are done right then it would be something i could comfortably call "The Definitive" Warcraft 3 remaster.
 
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Phew, this summoning pad was such a pain in the S to figure out! The original is so bare, it could be anything - but at the same time, as soon as I started adding details, it began to look completely different. I surely wasted more time than it deserved, but at least it will be shared by all Undead buildings.
 
I have a YouTube channel now! Here's a little Farm short for starters.

Spent this day converting village structures and fighting windmills. Literary. Those sails insisted on looking ugly until I pulled an old trick with "transfer attributes" in Maya and locked the normals in such position that the upward sails always get some light, even when turned away from the sun. Apparently, this is why they made the sails so transparent in the original - to negate shading artifacts.
Looks exquisite and even fits with og peasant better than i thought it would. Windmill too, transparency is there to keep the building more vibile too i presume. I still think it should be a teeny tiny bit brighter. Shading in game might make it darker still at times and keeping consistency with og texture colourscheme and brightness i squite important.(for one i think ruined versions were still a tad too dark on last previous we saw, plus i would like the rooftile-less design to be a variant with default still having damaged rooftiles like original. It would add to variety for doodad work too especially if someone wants to create a burned down village of these. That would allow for it to have less repeatition)

Fun fact: to avoid texture stretching and other bugs during animation, I used separate airtight meshes for each finger :peasant-thumbs-up:View attachment 555887
Seems like a good idea for building animation, but i hope it doesnt change the look too much. Texture stretching isnt as much of an issue usually depending on polycount and rigging.
 
Phew, this summoning pad was such a pain in the S to figure out! The original is so bare, it could be anything - but at the same time, as soon as I started adding details, it began to look completely different. I surely wasted more time than it deserved, but at least it will be shared by all Undead buildings.

Cool as always. One thing I can say is that the cloth(?) part that is under the necropolis is longe/wider in classic one so it is more noticeable from ingame view
 
Shading in game might make it darker still at times and keeping consistency with og texture colourscheme and brightness i squite important
Now that you mentioned it – yes, there is such problem, the og models have smooth normals which makes them catch more light in general. Fixing it by brightening the texture is quite tricky as it may cause the lit sides of the model to become too bright. Theoretically, I could use custom normals for a similar "soft" shading effect - but I can only do it within maya, which means I will have to redo the conversion for all the models. I would much rather spend this time on creating new ones.

plus i would like the rooftile-less design to be a variant with default still having damaged rooftiles like original. It would add to variety for doodad work too especially if someone wants to create a burned down village of these. That would allow for it to have less repeatition
I don't make additional variations because my models are supposed to replace the originals in Warcraft 3 folder, not through manual import.
Cool as always. One thing I can say is that the cloth(?) part that is under the necropolis is longe/wider in classic one so it is more noticeable from ingame view
Those are stalactites :)
They may be a bit more noticeable in the og because there it's just a box with transparent texture. I made them in 3D and tried to mimic the silhouette as best I could without making them flat.

Seems like a good idea for building animation, but i hope it doesnt change the look too much. Texture stretching isnt as much of an issue usually depending on polycount and rigging.
I mean, I posted a comparison video, you can see for yourself :wink:
Having more geometry IS an issue for simple bone animation as you can't rotate and move it the same way without adding more bones to prevent geometry clipping and other ugly artifacts. Separating the knuckles helped a lot
 
That always puzzled me - Warcraft is such a popular franchise, Blizzard didn't even have to lure skilled artists with big salaries or other benefits. A lot of professionals would be excited to be able to officially participate in Warcraft remaster, even part-time, even on very low budget. A few senior artists could produce all the models in this style in less than a year provided they are guided by an in-house art director. Why would they go for that overdetailed mess called Reforged, and with a generic outsource studio that has little to do with the franchise, is beyond my understanding.
A grrrreat question, sir. And, moreover, they had a lot of content in a similar style with similar detalization in HotS which is 100% compartible with Warcraft after importing.

On presentation they said: we want to get away from this cartoon style and bring something new, bring something realistic to the game, to stand out more in the gaming industry against the numerous games with similar visuals. And their manager (the one that has a focus on marketing) was gladly smiling, like if he approved the right concept. Go ahead, then, but they chose a studio that (I can even see from the icon designs and background work) didn't contain enough high quality force.

I believe that everybody knows, even completely empty-headed understand, that Warcraft became popular not only due to its mechanics and plot, but also due to its cartoonish visual style, which created an original atmosphere that players loved so much and kept their fans for so many years. Everything that Samwise achieved, that he gave them, they threw into a woodcutter.

I finally spoke out and now I feel much better 🙂

You spin me right round, baby, right round ☠️
 
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but they chose a studio that (I can even see from the icon designs and background work) didn't contain enough high quality force.
I tend to believe that the problem here is Activision Blizzard and that we should not blame the third party art studio.

My reasoning:
- I recall hearing it was the same LemonSky studio that did Starcraft 1 remaster art who then proceeded to make the 1.31 extended UI art and also the Reforged art. In this context, the problem isn't the artists -- it's the top level leadership who told them to make things Reforged and go off script instead of just making a remaster
- I recall that after the release of Reforged, some representative of LemonSky appeared in our social circles for a few days who was deeply bothered by the damage to LemonSky's reputation as a result of the release of Reforged and they were trying to gather feedback from the users. They claimed that Activision never allowed them to playtest their models in any version of the game, and as such they had never played the Reforged prior to its public release. This is deeply comically stupid not to playtest if the new art fits in the game, and is Activision's fault. I think it really shows, that people who sit around in Retera Model Studio gooning at the high polygon counts end up liking Reforged graphics, but people who play the actual freaking War3 game switch back to classic graphics.
- In all versions of Reforged to this day, if you level up Tauren Chieftain to 6 and kill him and then zoom way way in to the little grave stone shown during resurrection and screenshot it, it says F**K YOU in daedric runes from Skyrim. It is a message left from passionate gamer artists written to the people paying them in a language they didn't even understand that could therefore slip through past all checks and reviews in the Activision slop machine. Imagine if we discovered that Hive had so influenced @LongbowMan that these models he was making said F**K YOU hidden inside them. Our whole perspective on his work would change. Perhaps Reforged deserved to be treated similarly.

So, no, I don't blame the art studio. I blame the freakin' greed demons running the show at Activision Microsoft; and I think when they play us for fools and try to blame a third party studio, I don't want to have it.

You know, it's basically impossible to find videos of Pete Stilwell announcing Reforged on the 2018 stage at Blizzcon now. That positive spin he gave things -- the glowing review of how Warcraft III changed him as a person and would be this bright new future -- is something we're all just supposed to forget ever happened. So, yeah if you want to be racist, you can blame the Mayasians. But until someone comes up with really solid evidence that Malaysians actually have anything wrong with them, I'm going to continue living my life cracking jokes about Bobby Kotick as the butt of the joke even when he no longer works there.

Edit:
Some day Stilwell is going to walk into a bar and a drunken man will say, "My name is Inigo Montoya, and you Reforged my Warcraft. Now you will die!" and start swinging a sword at him. It's sad because this should've been focused at Bobby Kotick instead.
 
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I tend to believe that the problem here is Activision Blizzard and that we should not blame the third party art studio.

My reasoning:
- I recall hearing it was the same LemonSky studio that did Starcraft 1 remaster art who then proceeded to make the 1.31 extended UI art and also the Reforged art. In this context, the problem isn't the artists -- it's the top level leadership who told them to make things Reforged and go off script instead of just making a remaster
- I recall that after the release of Reforged, some representative of LemonSky appeared in our social circles for a few days who was deeply bothered by the damage to LemonSky's reputation as a result of the release of Reforged and they were trying to gather feedback from the users. They claimed that Activision never allowed them to playtest their models in any version of the game, and as such they had never played the Reforged prior to its public release. This is deeply comically stupid not to playtest if the new art fits in the game, and is Activision's fault. I think it really shows, that people who sit around in Retera Model Studio gooning at the high polygon counts end up liking Reforged graphics, but people who play the actual freaking War3 game switch back to classic graphics.
- In all versions of Reforged to this day, if you level up Tauren Chieftain to 6 and kill him and then zoom way way in to the little grave stone shown during resurrection and screenshot it, it says F**K YOU in daedric runes from Skyrim. It is a message left from passionate gamer artists written to the people paying them in a language they didn't even understand that could therefore slip through past all checks and reviews in the Activision slop machine. Imagine if we discovered that Hive had so influenced @LongbowMan that these models he was making said F**K YOU hidden inside them. Our whole perspective on his work would change. Perhaps Reforged deserved to be treated similarly.

So, no, I don't blame the art studio. I blame the freakin' greed demons running the show at Activision Microsoft; and I think when they play us for fools and try to blame a third party studio, I don't want to have it.

You know, it's basically impossible to find videos of Pete Stilwell announcing Reforged on the 2018 stage at Blizzcon now. That positive spin he gave things -- the glowing review of how Warcraft III changed him as a person and would be this bright new future -- is something we're all just supposed to forget ever happened. So, yeah if you want to be racist, you can blame the Mayasians. But until someone comes up with really solid evidence that Malaysians actually have anything wrong with them, I'm going to continue living my life cracking jokes about Bobby Kotick as the butt of the joke even when he no longer works there.

Edit:
Some day Stilwell is going to walk into a bar and a drunken man will say, "My name is Inigo Montoya, and you Reforged my Warcraft. Now you will die!" and start swinging a sword at him. It's sad because this should've been focused at Bobby Kotick instead.
I gotcha. The fact that they couldn't test it is just crazy. I don't hate the studio as well, I understand it's not a reason of failure as they were hired to do the job working on Activision bosses. But, however, I don't like how they made certain things from the artistic point of view.
 
I tend to believe that the problem here is Activision Blizzard and that we should not blame the third party art studio.
I don't blame the whole studio. That said, Brian Souza (Art director at Lemon Sky) is one of the people directly responsible for how the graphics turned out. Wether cartoonish or realistic, it just didn't have to look so ugly. Overall quality is very low, and it's not just about the artstyle. Colors are either toxic or dull, textures are exetremely noisy even for close up views (seriously, why did they use grain filter on every normal map) - overall, the environment looks terrible, especially during cutscenes. And don't let me start on the portraits... While there definitely are readability issues (which is critical for competitive RTS), it actually looks even worse when you zoom in. It looks worse than Kings Bounty from 2008, not to mention modern games or any other Blizzard game.

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Brian Souza (Art director at Lemon Sky)
I believe this man was an Activision Blizzard employee who quit in the middle of working on Reforged, not a LemonSky employee.

Apologies for being off topic, but I wanted to avoid misinformation that encourages blaming LemonSky for Activision greed and apathy.
 
I believe this man was an Activision Blizzard employee who quit in the middle of working on Reforged, not a LemonSky employee.
Oh, yeah. I rewatched the cinematic trailer for that WoW expansion, and the orc grunt in the video looks like the one in the Reforged opening cinematic. The human there reminded me of the human knight in Reforged now, minus the horse. I always thought Sam's original art illustrations were also used as inspo for the Reforged design. Looking back a year or two after playing in Reforged graphics, the visuals is clashing in the game and it's getting difficult to see. Maybe it's aging, or idk, but I was looking forward to that leftover concept for SD+ that's used in 2.0 promo, even though it's (allegedly) AI. I wish they even tried for that. But who knows at this point.

Back to the topic on hand, I understand that @LongbowMan is focusing on the buildings of the four factions (maybe even the neutral ones, and the Naga race). Right now, even teasing upcoming models is such a treat for me, seeing the classic models being redone in higher details but keeping it close - so close - to Classic mode. I am starting from scratch with my map project around this one, so there's that.
 
By the way, I'm going to use this new project feature for Classic HD. There isn't much yet on the project page, beside the logo, but I'll be adding more soon.

I am starting from scratch with my map project around this one, so there's that.
Man, that inpires me so much, knowing it's actually being of use to someone, and not just a pretty picture on the internet, thank you.
 
Man, that inspires me so much, knowing it's actually being of use to someone, and not just a pretty picture on the internet, thank you.
Mm-hmm! :grin:

Since there are only the 7-8 Classic HD models uploaded, plus the splats, I am prioritizing triggers, then adding custom units, doodads, abilities, and so on. Terraining or landscaping is going to take a while as I am having some sort of dilemma whether or not I use the Reforged environment design - the new one, not the old one pre-2.0. Viewing the map with said environment and your models doesn't look all that bad, tbh. I would make everything static with less "Reforged" graphic settings cranked up as this seems to crash maps randomly. In Classic, it doesn't actually happen that often(?) but yeah... What I'm referring to is the swaying of the trees, the 3D grass not part of the grass tileset textures, and whatnot.

Anyway, if there is an alternate way to get the HD's new environment style to Classic/SD, that'd be awesome too. In the meantime, slowly migrating and translating what once was Reforged onto my new map. I can afford going to basics and maybe alter the custom units' vertex color to make them slightly unique, considering I chose Reforged due to the many variations of unit models that used to be limited and reused if they are basically the same unit with different stats (i.e. Raider and Nazgrel).

About your Slaughterhouse, the stand work animation looks so good. I like how (I believe this is also a thing in the original model) the spinning wheel is asymmetrical, like the wheel isn't a perfect circle or isn't centered around the pole(?). Keep it up, LongbowMan.
 
By the way, I'm going to use this new project feature for Classic HD. There isn't much yet on the project page, beside the logo, but I'll be adding more soon.


Man, that inpires me so much, knowing it's actually being of use to someone, and not just a pretty picture on the internet, thank you.
We need to launch a crowdfunding for that. Need to contact WTii and other streamers and bloggers when you have enough content, need to unite forces!
 
We need to launch a crowdfunding for that. Need to contact WTii and other streamers and bloggers when you have enough content, need to unite forces!
I hope this works, we tried once, to hire the studio that made sc2 wc3hd assets. But well ofc interest was next to none
 
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