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Wacraft 3 in Unreal Engine.

Discussion in 'Warcraft Discussion' started by Amigoltu, Feb 11, 2020.

  1. Retera

    Retera

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    I don't fully understand what you mean to say with this sentence. However, I believe that you haven't quite understood the point I wanted to make. I am claiming that the distinction between 1.27 and 1.30 is as arbitrary as the distinction between 1.30 and 1.32.
    You appear to be claiming (and correct me if I am wrong) that 1.27 and 1.30 are "accepted" but 1.32 is "not accepted" as being the old client. Who decides if they are or are not the old client? Why was it OK for Blizzard to make a Patch from 1.27 to 1.30, but not from 1.30 to 1.32?

    This is the kind of thinking I'm referring to. In the mind of Classic Games, 1.32 is just another patch on top of 1.31. How do you define this as incorrect?

    I'm not asking because there's no answer, but rather because I think whatever distinction you're making in your mind that Blizzard employees did not make is the distinction that is at the heart of why people got upset. If we wanted to make people happy again, we need to convince Blizzard to create something that falls on the other side of the distinction. Something that is "accepted" alongside 1.27 and 1.30.
     
  2. Anaxie

    Anaxie

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    There is a big problem though.

    This is AN RTS not an RPG
     
  3. Amigoltu

    Amigoltu

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    It is not that I "don't accept", as you keep saying, but that Reforged client is literally a different client. The "remastered" version of the game. One that took away a lot of stuff the older ones had, which I laid out in the first paragraph of my previous post, already:


    There is no such thing as a client being "accepted", or not, as the old one. There is the old client (patches leading up to Reforged), and there's the new one (Reforged). All the older patches were merely adding tweaks to the same game here, and there, but Reforged was a full "remake".

    People got rightfully upset because Blizzard removed the Warcraft 3 game as they knew it, and replaced it with Reforged.
     
  4. Krolan

    Krolan

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    It makes me sick that at an earlier point I was also playing the "New-Update-Betas" (Public Test Servers) to see how it performs 'n stuff and with reforged you just see that it was a hollow and void PR-thingy that it was even there. It just didn't matter.

    anway
    @Amigoltu I'm currently using 1.29 (widescreen) without online requirement. I believe you when you say that there is maps that work better under 1.26 / 1.27 , in fact, I stuck to 1.26.xxxxxxx for over 5 years, until I decided to go updated, I think at 1.28 (If I recall 1.26 was the last big patch before WC3 was not updated anymore, right?). So - I know this is Off Topic, I apologize, but among the early versions, which one do you recommend for most Campaign/RPG/Alternative-Maps to be playable?

    Oh, and I don't necessarily need a Re-Port to Unreal, but I wouldn't have minded it much. I would've understood their need to go to an updated engine, especially 5 Windows-systems later, and therefor ditching compatibility of "Classic" (this whole rethoric stinks of people who to this day genuinly believe that WoW was a good game. To each their own).

    What it would've led to is the older "Elite" of Classic-WC3 Modding sticking to Classic, maybe for the lack of Internet-access requirement, maybe for the old artstyle, maybe out of disinterest in learning the newer engines quirks, with some definetly picking up the task and treading the waters of how to bring "My Awesome RPG-Map" to the newer engine.

    While an actually refreshed and (ported to Unreal for example) new-era looking WC3 would've drawn the attention of younger modders and modders of different games, some of which then might not even have heard of where it all came from, or how long WC3 modding has been a thing, so "fresh blood". They would've had a different approach, don't ask me how not-transpired shit would look like, and there would've been a different community with a different core and lead in a WC3 ReMade.

    Then those 2 communities obviously would've ended up kongregating and who knows where it might've gone from there. In fact, the "newer" people who would be figuring out the new "Unreal Engine Based" map Editor could probably then provide insight and help to the "oldies" as to how to port their Classic map to it.

    The ultimate result of it all would be: New maps with New Visions on a New Enging, Old maps working as intended with no need to constantly update (which is one of blizzards biggest crimes in my opinion, never taking the care to make sure that people can go and work on newer or other stuff and instead need to go back to their old stuff, again and again , to change triggers and pathings and codings, that should only ever have happened in a proper Remake) This shit would've been alright in an 0.7 release of an Open Source Game, but not with a already-20-years-finished 1.26 Warcraft 3.

    But then again, if they can make a rexxar campaign (way to late) to release the last 2 parts of it (way to late) and still make a World of Warcraft (look at them run o.o ) they may as well by now have made Warcraft 4.... or 5 for that matter.

    As a finish, here is my Conspiracy-theory on why reforged actually sucks so bad:
    "Maybe if we make sure people can not properly port their older stuff to the new engine and shit and also make sure that the game runs like a car with bricks where the wheels should be, the modding community will make our WC3 reforged a better game for FREE and therefor we'll make moneys with no need to employ an experienced developement staff. Tell them that it will work however! Then we can say that we really, really tried. Oh and just in case this doesn't work out, make sure we charge the people who already bought (partly multiple times) Warcraft 3 and make them pay for reforged as well. At least we'll have that money"

    Greetz

    Krolan
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
  5. Retera

    Retera

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    Are these videos of the Reforged client, or videos of the Classic client?



     
  6. Amigoltu

    Amigoltu

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    I assume you will claim they are Reforged, but they are not. That is the old client menu. Both of those clips were uploaded before the Reforged client was even out, too. (Officially released 2020.01.28, though wasn't available till the next day, at least for me.)

    This is the Reforged menu:


    This menu is actually a chromium web app, as shown down here:
    Colin Cornaby on Twitter

    I don't know if you are purposefully being disingenuous here, but that's what it looks like. Unless, of course, my initial assumption is wrong, in which case I apologise for jumping to conclusions.
     
  7. mori

    mori

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    Looks to me like the reforged beta client. I can see the HD textures and the models.

    This is such a silly distinction to make. Most of the code is still the same. Under the hood 1.32 is just another (rather major) patch. It's decidedly not a "different client" because most of it is still the same.
     
  8. Amigoltu

    Amigoltu

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    What he showed in the video indeed not a different client. It's the old one. The video was uploaded on YT before Reforged was out, and before even the official Beta was released (which was November of 2019).
    Which is what I pointed out. However, the actual Reforged client I showed in the video of my previous post IS a completely different client. Not only it's code is not the same - it's another fucking language altogether. The entire main menu is a web app.

    Arguing about Reforged, while showing pre-official-beta client, is making both of you look disingenuous in this conversation. Of course that client looks like old one. Because it is. Now compare the old client to the actual Reforged client. It's like night and day.
     
  9. mori

    mori

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    Well, they changed the main menu. Does that suddenly make it an entirely different client? Despite the fact that:

    - 1.32 can still parse and execute JASS code (functionality from 2002)
    - 1.32 can still run old maps
    - 1.32 can still render using the old renderer (which, if you want to get pedantic, started getting reworked way before reforged got released, when it was moved to DX11)
    - 1.32 still supports old command-line arguments like `-loadfile`, `-windowmode`, etc.
    - 1.32 still has all the old limitations of the WC3 engine that weren't rectified
    - 1.32 still has a lot of the bugs from 1.31 and before...
    - and so on...

    I dunno mate, seems like we're still stuck with the old for the most part. Yeah the UI got changed and there's now a new renderer, but most of the stuff is still the same. I'm still not convinced that it's a different client.
     
  10. Retera

    Retera

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    The videos that I linked, which were posted one day before Reforged Beta released, were made by getting a totally new computer only for this project and then on this separate computer (for security reasons) installing Reforged Beta from Blizzard then running a program, and I don't know what it does, so that when Reforged opened up to the doors and the web UI menu, then this EXE took over Reforged and ate the web UI menu and launched it into the menu shown in the video.
    I know nothing of how it was possible. It might still be possible on Reforged.

    To me, the fact that the code for that old menu exists in the game highlights how it was one continuous codebase with spaghetti code where they tacked on the web UI but didn't make a totally new UI and didn't make a totally new codebase.
     
  11. Amigoltu

    Amigoltu

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    @mori
    So what if it can run jass and, to an extent, run older maps? It still lost most of the functionality of the game, as I mentioned twice before:
    It's no longer the same game. Warcraft 3 as we knew it is gone, replaced with this poorly optimized and buggy mess, that looks and runs worse than the 2002 original. And it has only online lobby and main campaign.

    @Retera
    It was a very early stage of beta, probably a bug. You could try it again, and I would applaud you if you succeeded, but I highly doubt it would work.
     
  12. EnterpriseReforged

    EnterpriseReforged

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    Its only a matter of time before some one makes a hack pack to enable single player, or blizz themselves do it... i feel like it was quite anal to remove a huge part of WC3 like that...
     
  13. Retera

    Retera

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    Obviously I agree it's not the same, but one time I unplugged my internet and then clicked "Play Offline" on Reforged. With the internet unplugged, I was able to click the "Custom Games" button and create a game.
    I'm not sure what "create a game" means anymore since the internet was unplugged.
    But I pressed play and I was able to play this thing offline. So it is like Confusing Single Player.

    But it makes sense to me that you are asking for the Straightforward Single Player button.
     
  14. EnterpriseReforged

    EnterpriseReforged

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    Does that work well? i was going to try it but never did I would like a Single player button just for the idea to have one there.... same with a damn exit button... i hate hitting the menu to have to click exit.
     
  15. Amigoltu

    Amigoltu

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    Reforged allows you to play against bots offline - like Dota 2. And main campaign, as far as I know. Take in mind though, that playing against bots in a multiplayer lobby is not like old Custom Game Skirmish - there's no cheats, there's no save/load function.
     
  16. yxq1122

    yxq1122

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    Yeah, they should have made a new engine to support Warcraft 3 stuff. But they didn't. Why? Re-writing codes for all stuff specifications makes a new engine support to Warcraft. They just didn't get enough resources put into Warcraft 3 Reforged.
     
  17. Med. MapGuy

    Med. MapGuy

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    Honestly, those videos look like how I imagine Warcraft IV should look like...
     
  18. pyf

    pyf

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    Nice PoC imho. It reminds me of the early alpha versions of WC3 from 1998/2000, back when it was more of a RPG-like than a RTS.