Unlimited Detail Real-Time Rendering Technology

[The_wand_mirror]

Intresting.

 

[Adiktuz]

yeah, interesting...

 

[AlexDragon1111]

Wow. Really interesting. The future technology never cease to amaze me.

 

[Chucky]

So cool...just imagine the possibilities...:X Warcraft 3 in real graphics

 

[takakenji]

cool

 

[Sorvaltis]

Woaahhh!So cool

 

[Kyrbi0]

Really hoping this is doable. With what little modelling knowledge I have, this is just plain ol' amazing.

 

[-Derp-]

There's a ton of good things with this - but one of the major drawbacks is that the next generation of kids will likely be utterly desensitized to gore, even more so than kids today are.

 

[Cihparg]

Isn't that just a good thing.

 

[-Derp-]

Isn't that just a good thing.

Expect more cases like this:

As games become more realistic, kids are more likely to think you can perform 'game' actions in real life. Although it seems idiotic, it has happened *quite* a few times, and has killed a number of people.

 

[The_wand_mirror]

Teachers at my school showed us this during a lecture so i thought i'd share it ^^

 

[azlier]

They have yet to show off any animated things yet. Voxel animation is bound to be really inefficient compared to polygons, I think. Moving all the bits voxel by voxel compared to simply moving some vertices on a model around.

I think a fusion of the two media is necessary, with voxels serving as a static (but still somewhat alterable) environment with polygons taking on the role of the animated models (characters, grass, all that). The Atomontage engine has been stepping more into this direction and its creator has shown some animated tests and even some physics and dynamic terrain alteration.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

Halo 3

Realistic


Did I read that right?

Maybe I didn't, let me read it again

Eyup, Halo 3 and Realistic used together.

That argument is quite the bullocks to be perfectly honest, why isn't anyone hounding movies when they've been doing it for far much longer? Just because improved technology means more detail doesn't mean it's all going to be used for gore, or that gore in videos will increase of decrease at all in video games just because we can be more detailed in them, and from there that kids are going to start doing more dangerous things because of video games - besides at this point it's not like we've had too many limits on how much dangerous or explicit content we could shove into games graphically anyways.

From an artistic standpoint this technology is amazing and if it works as well as they say it does, it can allow for infinite creative freedom on the part of game creators.

Though one thing I'm curious about is how well it stands animated entities, note that everything in those preview videos is completely static.

 

[Adiktuz]

I wonder how much effort it will take for the processors when this is used...

 

[Elite Slayer]

Not quite unlimited, but stunning nonetheless. Still, I can't say I approve of the ethical implications behind this, but, hey, you can't stop industry.

And, on the topic of the seventeen year old murdering members of his family because of them removing his Halo 3 copy, I must admit that this is one of many bits of proof/evidence that video games are desensitizing young people globally. While many video games are harmless in moderation, it cannot be denied that they are still having a strikingly negative impact. Whether it's murder, social isolation, or just wasting precious time, they do have negative consequences when left unmoderated. And it's shocking for me to read that most of the top-rated comments on Youtube on these videos showing such cases are sarcastic comments or mockeries of the video/uploader by gamers. This is a very real threat.

 

[PROXY]

Uh ehm, jeah, ever heard of voxels?

azlier already said it, animating is the fucking fucked thing ever ^^ That's why Voxels got unpopular in time.

Also, very old information.

 

[The_wand_mirror]

Well i had never seen it before so.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

And it's shocking for me to read that most of the top-rated comments on Youtube on these videos showing such cases are sarcastic comments or mockeries of the video/uploader by gamers. This is a very real threat.

Did you bother watching the video he linked?

If the child was willing to kill his parents over a video game, then it's obvious they needed serious psychological help, not that they played Halo and from the game suddenly got a desire to kill their parents out of nowhere. It's ridiculous that the first thing everyone assumes is that it's because of the video game that spurred him to murder, not the myriad of other more likely causes. Like the video said, if he was holding a bible at the time instead of a video game would the media even bother saying anything about it?

Still, I can't say I approve of the ethical implications behind this, but, hey, you can't stop industry.

ಠ_ಠ

Ethical Implications behind increased detail - why is it that when they unveil a new technology that can increase detail and the power with which game creators can sculpt their environments, the first thing everyone assumes is that it's going to be used for increasing the level of gore in video games?

 

[Elite Slayer]

Did you bother watching the video he linked?

I did indeed, friend.

If the child was willing to kill his parents over a video game, then it's obvious they needed serious psychological help, not that they played Halo and from the game suddenly got a desire to kill their parents out of nowhere. It's ridiculous that the first thing everyone assumes is that it's because of the video game that spurred him to murder, not the myriad of other more likely causes. Like the video said, if he was holding a bible at the time instead of a video game would the media even bother saying anything about it?

I believe it's possible you misunderstood what I said. I did not blame the developers, producers, promoters, or what-have-you of Halo, and I believe that Halo is a great game. But Halo 3 was what inadvertently served as a triggering incentive to commit murder for this person. True, he was under the circumstances that already made him susceptible to perpetrating such a crime, but does it make sense to leave video games out of the issue when it was his mother innocently trying to help her son by removing a video game that spurred him to murder? Other factors - such as mental and emotional conditions - should be taken into account. True. But so should video games. In this case, perhaps it was not a video game that is to blame - but it certainly was a trigger. No pun intended.

Ethical Implications behind increased detail - why is it that when they unveil a new technology that can increase detail and the power with which game creators can sculpt their environments, the first thing everyone assumes is that it's going to be used for increasing the level of gore in video games?

I don't recall mentioning gore in my post, even though it is one of a few reasons I have the view I do. The extent of realism in a game affects its players, and allows them to immerse themselves in a photorealistic world almost parallel to the real one. Graphical detail is a factor in this. But, left unmoderated, this could be a contributor to game addiction, logically. The possible result of which could be the very scenario we were talking about.

Perhaps we should just admit it's likely we have different views on the matter, and leave it at that.

 

[Adiktuz]

Well, anything when used in a bad way will result in bad things... as for video games, the effect varies with each people depending on how they perceive things...

for example:

there were two persons who loves shooting games

1 of them has a firm grip on his mind and just loved the shooting in a game, but the thought of using a real gun didn't crossed his mind

The other 1 gets the boundary of a game and reality blurred and so got the thought of trying it out in real life...

 

[LordDz]

I like how the big focus is how it was Halo 3 that made him kill his mum, not that his father had a gun in the house.

Perhaps they could restrict gun laws instead?

Also, "One marathon weekend -- about a week before the shooting on Oct. 20, 2007 -- they played Halo for 16 to 18 hours a day, stopping only to eat, sleep and use the bathroom, Johnson said. Petric's father had kicked him out of the house after a fight and Petric crashed with Johnson's family."

He was addicted to gaming, I don't think it's the content of the game that made him kill his mum, he could have played Pony Adventures for 16-18 hours a day and I still think he would have killed her. Hell, it could have been chess, it could have been postcard stamps.

 

[Gilles]

Ethical Implications behind increased detail - why is it that when they unveil a new technology that can increase detail and the power with which game creators can sculpt their environments, the first thing everyone assumes is that it's going to be used for increasing the level of gore in video games?

Because it will be?

I don't see how improved graphics changes anything though. If you're okay with pulling someones spine out in 2d, I don't see how you can all of a sudden draw a line when it becomes 3d. Ethics should be based on content, not realism.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

You know... let's take a little look at competitive gaming, it is fun entertaining and just cause some game would have scanned terrain doesn't make it cooler to play than say some CGI. Gameplay is what matters, then graphics, especially when latest CGI isnt even half bad and is quite close to this presented in the video.

 

[Narogog]

wow, just wow those are amazing graphics, i wonder if the models can be full or just shell, full as in they have little bits inside so you can say cut a whole in a tank and climb in.
But i agree with Imtor, what makes a game fun is gameplay not graphics graphics help make up for a tiny bit of gameplay but I have a couple of games that have horrid graphics and are a lot of fun to play.

 

[Gilles]

You know... let's take a little look at competitive gaming, it is fun entertaining and just cause some game would have scanned terrain doesn't make it cooler to play than say some CGI. Gameplay is what matters, then graphics, especially when latest CGI isnt even half bad and is quite close to this presented in the video.

I don't understand, It's still computer generated. And why must you bring up gameplay? It has nothing to do with the thread.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Although the visuals look amazing, they are not suited for use in games. I am guessing they were running this on some pretty beefy hardware (probably multiple top range DX11 graphic cards). Performance problems were noticable at some views and everything is still unanimated. Throw in some realistic physics for bringing the environment to life and the technology becomes unfesible for use in a game.

It still is great if you are an architect for creating a virtual simulation that clients can browse in real time.

 

[GIANT_CRAB]

Unreal engines and source engines, compare to this unlimited engine? Unlimited engine sucks(no offense), even unity has better engine than it. Look at the collision of the unlimited engine, physics fail. Graphics being rendered is not as good as building the graphics and then rendering it. 2 steps = more effort but better.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Unreal engines and source engines, compare to this unlimited engine? Unlimited engine sucks(no offense), even unity has better engine than it. Look at the collision of the unlimited engine, physics fail. Graphics being rendered is not as good as building the graphics and then rendering it. 2 steps = more effort but better.

Too bad none of that maters if you want to do an architectural simulation of a building or city. People just need to understand that different render systems have different purposes.

A lot of what the unlimited detail engine does can actually be adopted to real games via the use of tessilisation. You might not be able to have such complex scenes (individual grains of dirt might be a bit too much) but you could certainly make a game engine which lets you zoom from a city level to ground level with near flawless detail. Such games are likly to only come once Sony or Microsoft release a new console, one which actually supports tessilisation (as current systems discourage developers from using DX10 let alone DX11 technology).

An example of tests made to such technology was done by square enix with their FF7 hardware demo. It showed the city of midgard (hope this is right as I have not played in ages) zoom in to a street level seamlessly and in high detail to reveal cloud jumping off a train. This was done with DX9 type technology 5-6 years ago, so one can expect major advances since then.

The main advantage tessilisation brings is a much easier way to control model complexity. Before, LOD type systems (as used by TES oblivion) were required inorder to reduce the complexity of distant terrain to be fesibly renderable in real time. Now you make the model geometry simple and rely on tessilisation to bring it up in complexity so a 500 polly tower seen from a plane could be increased dynamically in real time to 50000 or more poly as you get closer.

 

[The_wand_mirror]

Although the visuals look amazing, they are not suited for use in games. I am guessing they were running this on some pretty beefy hardware (probably multiple top range DX11 graphic cards). Performance problems were noticable at some views and everything is still unanimated. Throw in some realistic physics for bringing the environment to life and the technology becomes unfesible for use in a game.

It still is great if you are an architect for creating a virtual simulation that clients can browse in real time.

Well the future is sure to bring a lot more powerfull hardware as always. I don't know how animating stuff like this works and I have no idea how they were going to do or something but it's still in a very early stage... i bet this is just like 3d, it gets introduced and for some reason people don't like it enough and it gets canceled (or the technology was just too ambitious at the time) and forgotten about. This might also a tad over the top to use at the moment but I really hope something similar can be used in the future that would be awesome.

 

[Magtheridon96]

I don't know how animating stuff like this works

Currently, we just iterate through the vertices on the polygons and apply vectors to them.

This "Unlimited Detail Engine" would have to iterate through trillions upon trillions of voxels.

I guess you need like a 64 Thz processor to handle that efficiently (A few Ghz can do close to a billion per second)

Not only that, but we'll need tons of VGA :/ (That's gonna be one LARGE Motherboard xD)

 

[Adiktuz]

It seems good, but I don't really think we need that level of realism in games... And as softwares evolve much faster than hardwares, I don't think hardwares which can fully support this will be present in the next decade... or it might even be that when we get those hardwares, there would already be much better softwares than this...

I think they can even reduce the amount of particles used (enlarge each particle) to about a hundreth with only a minor visible change in the output...

 

[PROXY]

Hardware can infact handly this. The technique that they are using is (as already said multiple times) Voxel. It was used in game industrie before the polygons, but as it was not that user friendly and very hard to animate, so it quite sucks nowadays.
Voxels are quite good for terrains and stuff, but for games they are not really suitable.
(I know it has been said a few times before me, but I just wanted to clear that once more).

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

I don't understand, It's still computer generated. And why must you bring up gameplay? It has nothing to do with the thread.

The connection is that according to the video, this new graphics will bring an unforgotten playing experience when this is not the most important for such gaming experience. Because combined with the gameplay that matters, the current no-scan graphics could make the game nearly that realistic.

What DSG said, try playing and show some animated version of it, to see 'how this will become the leading graphics', and it looks like more for a simulation than gaming, I agree. The future of gaming would be entering inside the game by you being the hero and in a sort of virtual reality.