true vision of item holder

[Cheshire]

hey,

is there a way through just the world editor (by clever use of abilities and buffs) to get an item to have a true sight effect against the unit holding it? so whoever is holding the item cannot be invisible? I tried giving it an ability with the detected buff but that didn't seem to do it...

I already have a solution implemented with triggering, but wanted to know if there was a simpler more "native" solution I am overlooking.

 

[raypack]

This comment shall not help you in any way, but I just wanted to mention the following:
I think that anything that can be done through the object editor, should be done through the object editor instead of using triggers, so I'm happy that you asked what you asked.

 

[Chaosium]

The only behavior I can think of is the Item Soul Possession ability, aka the thing with trapping Grom in the soul gem in the campaign, the owner of the item is being revealed to the other team, same as Devour I think

To be honest it feels much clunkier to set up than just having an infinite Faerie Fire cast on the holder of the item via trigger

 

[Cheshire]

The only behavior I can think of is the Item Soul Possession ability, aka the thing with trapping Grom in the soul gem in the campaign, the owner of the item is being revealed to the other team, same as Devour I think

To be honest it feels much clunkier to set up than just having an infinite Faerie Fire cast on the holder of the item via trigger

if I am not mistaken, faerie fire only gives vision to the casting player and not to all players which is what I want. so creating one faerie fire dummy for each player and hoping that the 8 identical buffs stack the vision correctly also seems kinda clunky here.

whatever, like I said in the intro I have a working solution, I just wanted to know if I overlooked something much simpler than what I did. (there are all kinds of strange hardcoded things regarding messing with allied vision settings and the different player types, so I thought that might be cleaner )

 

[raypack]

if I am not mistaken, faerie fire only gives vision to the casting player and not to all players which is what I want. so creating one faerie fire dummy for each player and hoping that the 8 identical buffs stack the vision correctly also seems kinda clunky here.

How interesting, I always thought that all players that are allied to the owner of the faerie fire ability would also receive vision of the target with faerie fire debuff, but tbh I've never really paid attention so perhaps you are right.

 

[Cheshire]

How interesting, I always thought that all players that are allied to the owner of the faerie fire ability would also receive vision of the target with faerie fire debuff, but tbh I've never really paid attention so perhaps you are right.

dunno about that, I was thinking about FFA

 

[raypack]

I see, sorry. I misread this:

My bad

 

[Duckfarter]

whatever, like I said in the intro I have a working solution, I just wanted to know if I overlooked something much simpler than what I did. (there are all kinds of strange hardcoded things regarding messing with allied vision settings and the different player types, so I thought that might be cleaner )

Imo its objectively wrong to use Set alliance since it changes all aspects of an alliance. One should only ever use Set aspect of alliance. It becomes blatantly obvious when there are 8 aspects of an alliance and the Set alliance function only has the option to change a maximum of 3 of them, which means all or some of the other values are probably defaulted. I can attest that Set alliance messes with both vision, shared control and help requests. I petition we ban the Set alliance function!

Are those something youre using in your triggered version to give vision of a unit? Cuz theres a native function that can give vision of a unit to a player.

 

[Pyrogasm]

Dust of Appearance has the same issue that it only works for players allied to the casting player (casting it as a neutral player doesn't give anyone vision) so it's the same as Faerie Fire. But it does work when applied before the unit turns invisible.

Just to be clear, Cheshire, you don't want to permanently reveal this unit to all players (while this effect is active however long it may be) or prevent the usage of invisibility effect, rather you just want it to be visible to all players even while invisible? An oddball solution to this is a sentry ward per player that have been configured to only reveal units with a particular tag, then temporarily give that tag to the visible unit so it's properly revealed by the sentry wards.

If the number of ways to become invisible is limited, there could be other solutions like negative fade time on windwalk to make their invisibility effects never actually 'happen'.

 

[Cheshire]

Imo its objectively wrong to use Set alliance since it changes all aspects of an alliance. One should only ever use Set aspect of alliance. It becomes blatantly obvious when there are 8 aspects of an alliance and the Set alliance function only has the option to change a maximum of 3 of them, which means all or some of the other values are probably defaulted. I can attest that Set alliance messes with both vision, shared control and help requests. I petition we ban the Set alliance function!

Are those something youre using in your triggered version to give vision of a unit? Cuz theres a native function that can give vision of a unit to a player.

I'm using the native that can give vision of a unit to a player for giving vision of player owned units to real players, but for things I need to give vision of/to for computer controlled players such as neutral extra - that is resulting in a bunch of unwanted behaviour. (for example when I give and remove vision of a player owned unit to netrual extra, for some reason the other players then have full allied vision of neutral extra starting from the next in game dawn. ). affected aspects of alliance also had stange behaviour. so for neutral extra I ended up just creating a "scout dummy". a dummy unit with true sight which moves to the unit that NE should have vision of. it's somewhat more convoluted than this, which is why I didn't go into the solution. but no, not using the stuff you want to ban. (I think)

Dust of Appearance has the same issue that it only works for players allied to the casting player (casting it as a neutral player doesn't give anyone vision) so it's the same as Faerie Fire.

hmm. the tooltip on the detected ability says something like - "this unit is visible to enemies" or something that made me think it was based on the affected unit and not the caster.

Just to be clear, Cheshire, you don't want to permanently reveal this unit to all players (while this effect is active however long it may be) or prevent the usage of invisibility effect, rather you just want it to be visible to all players even while invisible?

there is one central item in my map that will be somewhat of a "hot potato" and keep switching owners. I want the carrier of this item to always be visible to everyone else, both player owned and scripted player owned teams, but only while holding the item (invisibility piercing).