Too OP for a flying unit?

[ArchDuke]

That's a great idea

 

[SpoopyShade]

For your phoenix, you could also make it a heavy mana cost ability, lower its food cost slightly and give it a bulk health. turn on autocast and slow its mana regen. Either wait and use the phoenix strategically as it will take time to burn the ground each time, or build additional units for mana regen which in turn would cost up the food again.

 

[Lord Alyx]

Look you have 2 identical units except for one thing:

The 2nd has a modified command aura that only effects itself and gives it +50 or so damage, and makes it look like its under a buff

So when the unit auto-casts the dummy spell a trigger forces it to metamorphose into the 2nd unit for like 30 seconds

 

[ArchDuke]

I think I get it, but could you be more specific?

 

[Lord Alyx]

Ok I'll provide a small map for demonstration, for technical purposes I will use tornado buff instead of command aura and a +50 item bonus

 

[Lord Alyx]

@ArchDuke The map below was done in warcraft3 version 1.26, it illustrates the concept I've talked about earlier

 

[Lord Aiden]

@ArchDuke The map below was done in warcraft3 version 1.26, it illustrates the concept I've talked about earlier

Interesting unit, might I ask what gave you inspiration for this whole thing?

 

[Lord Alyx]

It goes back to a single mission I was developing for a campaign many years ago. The mission was like a melee, you were human and you had to wipe orcs off a set of islands. But there was a catch, the orc spiritwalker was a hero unit, and had a special attack that would transform ordinary 800 hp grunts into super-grunts which had both a stronger attack, and could heal faster. The mechanics of it were essentially the same except it was a bloodlust spell designed to only target "suicidal" units, and grunts were set to have a classification of suicidal, the ideas was to be to have the hero wipe off the the spirit walker but that was hard to do because he was a hero with lots of hp and abilities, and was surrounded by 3-5 grunts.

 

[Lord Aiden]

Did you ever finish the map?

 

[Lord Alyx]

No, sadly the computer I was working on crashed, so I don't have the map, but I clearly remember the mechanic I used

 

[ArchDuke]

That (the computer crash) sucks, but the idea is really good, the main intention is to prevent dispelling of the buff, am I right?

 

[Lord Alyx]

Ye, or the buff being taken by a spell breaker. The point was that you could taker a tier 2 soldier and turn him into an elite attacking force

 

[Lord Alyx]

I had created this one unit in my past campaings, it had 650 heath, two attacks; one was normal. the second one was siege, it also had pillage, critical strike, and resistant skin. It's attacks were whatever 16-25 from what I rember, and 30-40 against buildings, but this attack was much slower and the unit cost 3 food, anyway this combined with anti-air units and some spellcasters and siege weapons could do some serious damage to a base.

 

[ArchDuke]

Nice unit, sounds like a force to be wreckened with, especially if you would've used it in that missions without a goldmine

 

[Lord Alyx]

All I gotta say is that a melee siege attack + pillage = win

 

[ArchDuke]

damn right

 

[Lord Alyx]

I didn't think of using it in the no-gold mine mission, but that would've been weird, it is an excellent unit but it cannot attack air units therefore i needs anti-air wherever it goes, also it is extremely vulnerable to spells and negative buffs, so it needs protection from other unit

 

[Rem]

those are some awesome unit idea, wish i was as good as you guys at doing this

 

[Lord Alyx]

@Rem Just think to yourself what you would like a particular unit to do, from then on you can start making the unit as well as its abilities

 

[ArchDuke]

@-Phoenix- What about a unit whose main purpose is to defend his base

 

[Lord Alyx]

I've devised something like this actually, let me look at my notes because the map itself is long gone

 

[Lord Alyx]

Now in the past I designed 2 missions only the goal of which was to survive till the timer runs out, I wasn't very fond of this type of gameplay at all.
Now look there were several units

One was a giant salamander; It had Ellune's grace, Devour, Transmute, Resistant Skin, Chain lightening, and over 1500hp It says here it had 500mp

Second one was paladin with the aura removed, He had Resistant Skin, Spell Immunity, Hardened Skin, a modified unholy aura that just heal hp, and a charm that took 0hp, the Hero had 2000HP and no mp

The last one was a giant druid of the claw in bear form that had resistant skin, critical strike, and could cast roar, it doesn't say how much mana he had, but he had 1200hp

 

[ArchDuke]

All defensive unit need:

a) lots of hp
b) Resistant skin
c) Powerful spells that deal lots of damage
d) Abilities like spell immunity or hardened skin to make them hard to damage
e) ultimates to allow these units to get rid of attackers faster

 

[Lord Alyx]

Very good, you got always all of it down, but you forgot auras; I recall making a captain with a modified skin calling him "Defender" Giving him 1500hp 9 armor, as well as resistant skin, and lastly a modified command aura that him and all around him a 50% bonus to attack, sometimes auras are the key....increasing the attack by 50% is no small matter

 

[Lord Alyx]

Hello, you can make a really annoying defensive unit, Ive did that before for the fun of it.

2,000HP

35-45 attack 1.9 cooldown Heavy armor, 270 movement speed

Resistant Skin
Slow
Tweaked elune's grace
Hex
Forked lightening
Aerial Shackle
Ensare

These units will annoy the fuck outta the enemy, especially so if they have reincarnation

 

[ArchDuke]

I'll bet, this will be like Lady Rhiana of the arkain books, slow + hex is a super annoying combination

 

[Lord Alyx]

You're talking about when you fight her in that long live the queen mission ?

 

[Lord Aiden]

I remember that one, but thats an exception; although slow and hex are annoying no one makes units like that

 

[Lord Alyx]

Someone kept asking me about the ultimate bodyguard unit so here it is

* = much stronger

1580hp Heavy armor, 9 Armor
59-89 normal/chaos* damagemge 1.6 second cooldown
35-37 piercing/chaos* damage 1.2 second coodown
Abilities:
Resistant skin
True Sight - This makes sure you don't get harassed by permanently invisible units or units made invisible by spells (Thanks @ArchDuke for the suggestion)
Defensive stance* - Gives a percentage chance that an attack on the unit will this ability will be reduced by x damage (usually 50)
Critical strike (x3)
Magical resistance/arcane resistance(tweaked elune's grace) - Reduces magic and pierce attack by a certain percentage.
Spell shield (prevents a spell from hitting the unit having this ability once every x seconds) usually 45 seconds.
Spell Immunity* - I wouldn't recommend using this as it would likely make the unit too OP
Cleaving Attack* - Allows the hero to attack units that are in front of him and in close proximity
Pulverize* - Gives a percentage chance to attack multiple enemies, the model must do this too
Taunt

 

[cleavinghammer]

No Taunt?

 

[ArchDuke]

@-Phoenix- I'm not trying to be a dick or a smart-ass or anything, but you forgot true sight, without it the enemy could harass your forces with invisible units or units that are made invisible though spells like sorceress' invisibility, wind walk, etc.

Just look at mission four of Shar Dundred's 2nd human book

 

[Lord Alyx]

Damn, you're right. I completely forgot this, gonna edit my earlier reply

A big thank you, I'll rep you once the rep interval is over.

 

[ArchDuke]

I would also post the aura information

For instance

Devotion Aura - Basically makes all friendly units around the caster as well as the castor gain +(1-5) bonus armor points, this keeps them in battle longer.

Brilliance Aura - An aura that enhances mp regeneration , allows all spellcasters to re-gain their mana at a fast rate, thus cast more spells, extremely useful but only for spellcasters

Endurance Aura - An aura that enhances both attack rate and movement speed, is quiet useful when given to the right units. (Allows units to run slightly faster, and attack at a faster rate, this results in more damage done in a faster time, thus makes the unit under the effect of endurance aura better damage dealers then their counterparts not under the effect of the aura)

Command Aura - Increases all friendly units attack by a percentage, really useful as it can make tier 1 units deal damage like they are tier 3 units

Unholy Aura - Increases hp regeneration and movement speed, is really good because it enhances a units hp regeneration thus allows it to battle longer and heal faster outside of battle, can be very useful

Vampiric Aura - Allows the hero and all melee units to regain a percentage of their attack, really useful for melee attackers, useless for ranged units

Trueshot Aura - An aura that enhances the attacks of ranged units by a certain percentage, basically a copy of the command aura but for ranged only, can be useful if you have lots of ranged units

Thorns aura - An aura that returns a percentage of any melee attacker's attack that is done on any unit which is under the effect of this aura, this is extremely useful as it allows the caster as well as a few units a decent defense against melee attackers.


Any good defense unit needs to have a thorns aura imhm as @pyf would say

 

[Lord Alyx]

Great job, but why summon pyf here? Is he an aura expert?

 

[ArchDuke]

Pyf is a fun respectable guy, he's nice to talk to, some of my friends would troll him but I kinda began liking the dude, wish he's get in on some of our conversations.

Anway, back to the topic

Lord Siler and Others had come up with a limit break concept; an ability that allows you to use critical strike 100% of the time if 1) you have learned the ability and 2) your health is below a certain threads hold, I believe it was below 20% health if your limit break ability was at level 1, 25% health if limit break is at level 2 and 33% health if the limit break was at level 3.

A modified version of this could be applied to non-hero elite units

• Untitled Trigger 136 Copy
  • Events
    • Unit - A unit Is attacked
  • Conditions
    • (Level of Limit Break for (Attacking unit)) Greater than or equal to 1
  • Actions
    • If (All Conditions are True) then do (Then Actions) else do (Else Actions)
      • If - Conditions
        • And - All (Conditions) are true
          • Conditions
            • (Level of Limit Break for (Attacking unit)) Equal to 1
            • (Level of ++++-Critical Stike+++ (Neutral Hostile) for (Attacking unit)) Equal to 0
            • (Life of (Attacking unit)) Less than or equal to ((Max life of (Attacking unit)) / 5.00)
      • Then - Actions
        • Unit - Add ++++-Critical Stike+++ (Neutral Hostile) to (Attacking unit)
      • Else - Actions
        • If (All Conditions are True) then do (Then Actions) else do (Else Actions)
          • If - Conditions
            • And - All (Conditions) are true
              • Conditions
                • (Level of Limit Break for (Attacking unit)) Equal to 1
                • (Level of ++++-Critical Stike+++ (Neutral Hostile) for (Attacking unit)) Equal to 1
                • (Life of (Attacking unit)) Greater than ((Max life of (Attacking unit)) / 5.00)
          • Then - Actions
            • Unit - Remove ++++-Critical Stike+++ (Neutral Hostile) from (Attacking unit)
          • Else - Actions
    • If (All Conditions are True) then do (Then Actions) else do (Else Actions)
      • If - Conditions
        • And - All (Conditions) are true
          • Conditions
            • (Level of Limit Break for (Attacking unit)) Equal to 2
            • (Level of ++++-Critical Stike+++ (Neutral Hostile) for (Attacking unit)) Equal to 0
            • (Life of (Attacking unit)) Less than or equal to ((Max life of (Attacking unit)) / 4.00)
      • Then - Actions
        • Unit - Add ++++-Critical Stike+++ (Neutral Hostile) to (Attacking unit)
      • Else - Actions
        • If (All Conditions are True) then do (Then Actions) else do (Else Actions)
          • If - Conditions
            • And - All (Conditions) are true
              • Conditions
                • (Level of Limit Break for (Attacking unit)) Equal to 2
                • (Level of ++++-Critical Stike+++ (Neutral Hostile) for (Attacking unit)) Equal to 1
                • (Life of (Attacking unit)) Greater than ((Max life of (Attacking unit)) / 4.00)
          • Then - Actions
            • Unit - Remove ++++-Critical Stike+++ (Neutral Hostile) from (Attacking unit)
          • Else - Actions
    • If (All Conditions are True) then do (Then Actions) else do (Else Actions)
      • If - Conditions
        • And - All (Conditions) are true
          • Conditions
            • (Level of Limit Break for (Attacking unit)) Equal to 3
            • (Level of ++++-Critical Stike+++ (Neutral Hostile) for (Attacking unit)) Equal to 0
            • (Life of (Attacking unit)) Less than or equal to ((Max life of (Attacking unit)) / 3.00)
      • Then - Actions
        • Unit - Add ++++-Critical Stike+++ (Neutral Hostile) to (Attacking unit)
      • Else - Actions
        • If (All Conditions are True) then do (Then Actions) else do (Else Actions)
          • If - Conditions
            • And - All (Conditions) are true
              • Conditions
                • (Level of Limit Break for (Attacking unit)) Equal to 3
                • (Level of ++++-Critical Stike+++ (Neutral Hostile) for (Attacking unit)) Equal to 1
                • (Life of (Attacking unit)) Greater than ((Max life of (Attacking unit)) / 3.00)
          • Then - Actions
            • Unit - Remove ++++-Critical Stike+++ (Neutral Hostile) from (Attacking unit)
          • Else - Actions

 

[Lord Alyx]

Maybe replace the critical strike with hardened skin, that should make the unit really hard to beat

 

[ArchDuke]

That would make an invincible unit

 

[cleavinghammer]

Add Phase Shift if you're worried it's not unkillable enough.

 

[Rem]

Since you guys seem to know a great deal about modding, i wanted to ask what sort of aerial units would u give to a player if you didnt want him to use them to raid the enemy, i mean u want him to use them as support

 

[Lord Alyx]

Something similar to a wind rider, anything with piercing attack cannot really damage structures or ground units unless he has some sort of buff liked to his attack or maybe demolish

 

[Lord Aiden]

@ArchDuke

Unholy aura - Best aura for keeping units alive

Command aura - Best aura for engaging in combat

Thorns Aura - Best aura for defending against melee units

 

[Lord Alyx]

We forgot reincarnation

 

[Rem]

can u guys plz provide more concrete examples ??

 

[Lord Alyx]

@Rem Maybe something like the Naga's Couatl, except 680hp instead of 525 and a food cost of 3 instead of 2

 

[Rem]

You guys are so creative with these things, but when i ask for something simple i get a naga coatl with increased stats

 

[Lord Alyx]

Ok, look its perfect for what you want it for, infact if instead of abolish magic the coatl gets slow poison it would be the perfect support unit, although you can't really attack bases with it, you can attack both air and ground units, plus changing its armor from small to unarmed will enhance its resistance to piercing attacks

 

[Rem]

k

 

[Lord Aiden]

It's like a super gargoyle, lol

But seriously its not bad, it should be able to defeat most other aerial units, especially with the slow poison, it just wont stand up to strong ground units and structures

 

[Lord Alyx]

It's a good unit, I mean its abilities are great

 

[ArchDuke]

I think she was upset because the unit itself was not intricate, its abilities are what counts, I mean you can substitute any model there