Thread for Brainstorm

[Eagle XI]

Hi,
Been playing online for sometime now and managed to get my Hunter to lvl35. Starting from an nobody living on a rural area evolving into heroes as the plot takes its course like in singleplayer rpg's but this time not necessary being solo on that has been an fun experience,at least for me. Seeing that here lacks(?) an thread for ideas&suggestions ive gone ahead for creating one.

I would like to see Monk being reworked from the usual karate-kung fu jack into an more european feeling Warrior Monk. They could wear mail and wield maces,2h-hammers as only melee weapons they can wield. Shouldnt Steelskin been Stoneskin ?
Necromancer's skills need to be looked at because a Necro is not completely about raising Skeletons. How about we create an Raise Dead skill that has its own submenu with Skeleton,Skeleton Archer(autocasts flame arrow),Skeleton Mage(remains same),Ghost(destroys target's mana with each attack),Skeleton Champion(dual wields,has taunt,high hp),so he can get an worthy ultimate like Corpse explosion or Vampirism something(aura or self-buff) He still will need to learn every summon seperately and start out with just the basic skeleton.
Also can we please get rid of the asian looks and names of some items like Samurai Vest or that Ranger helmet with Samurai helm look. Samurai Vest would been reasonable if you would call it Vestments of the Shinobi or Ninja vest etc. since its for Thief/Ranger but Samurai's were "Knights" and a Samurai armor is just heavy that seems so out of place.

My 2 cents about crusader: He can easily lose the aggro,which is inacceptable on a tank. Hereby proposing to reduce the Str penalty on Celestial zeal from -15 to -10. And most ppl tell its inferior to Berzerker.

According to seemingly everyone Cleric's Divine Shield(bubble) is "OPOPOPOPOP" Perhaps it could drain Cleric's mana whilst active

I saw an topic about an 6.th class. My thought on that matter would be: Orc Adventurer. This guy is your own dual-class guy. You can pick any skill you want of the original 5 for this guy to do your own dual-class but there are limits. You cant pick Abilities of:
Cleric and Thief, <- first one is an faithful second one lives for money.
Squire and Magician, <-first solves problems via sword arm latter uses his brai.. err fireballs.
Magician and Ranger, <- Wizardude is interested in reaching his goals via reshaping the currents of the world to his own end,the nature guy however would rather die than seeing Gaia's art being defiled in such a manner.
Ranger and Cleric, <- first is an wildmen relying on herbal medicine,second one an individual trapped in civilization relying on and thanking to his deity for anything everything.
at the same time due to them being conflicting ways. This means in the begin you pick which class you want to be based on f.e. you picked Squire you cant pick any Magician skill anymore,if you get any Thief ability no more Heal or Remedy available for you. Items you can use,items and abilities you get at start bases on this choice. Also there is the downside that Adventurer will still be limited to the advanced options of the 2 classes he choosed to dual and cannot advance easily as the regular,standard classes do. He will need to do an extra quest involving some difficult task or bring some gold/mc on the table first for class change.

Im curious about whats planned for new regions. As far i can guess there is going to be an highlands region within the mountain range south of traderoutes,seperating the corrupt forests further south from the uninfected(for yet) lands,perhaps an castle/monastery raid up north,some coastal area in between there and the city. What could we expect ?
Id say there should be 3. choices for each base class like Death/Chaos Knight which is the total opposite of Crusader for Squire. Corsair together with gunpowder weapons like pistols and musket rifles which only he can use for Thief etc.

 

[Hawajska]

There is already thread for ideas ect, watch more carefully

 

[Vestra]

I'm waiting for 1.2 before I go nuts on balancing ideas, keep your ideas written down somewhere though, they might come in handy eventually.

"Also can we please get rid of the asian looks and names of some items like Samurai Vest or that Ranger helmet with Samurai helm look. Samurai Vest would been reasonable if you would call it Vestments of the Shinobi or Ninja vest etc. since its for Thief/Ranger but Samurai's were "Knights" and a Samurai armor is just heavy that seems so out of place."

^ That is kind of true, some models don't fit their concepts very well and samurais were not exactly leather wearing stealth masters.

 

[3kalp]

Exactly! Samurais are knights who trust on their muscle control. They are not fast but strong enough to use timing. Hard hits and when blocked no time wastes, directly to another hit. This makes them seem faster, but in reality they stop their attacks just in time to do another blow.. till they find a way to reach opponent's body.

 

[Hawajska]

wait... do we have samurai class?

Z decided he want monk fist style, who use hes elemental knowledge to support hes attacks.
All that monks need atm is steel body giving also attack bonus and in addition to make souls strike hit multiple targets, that would make monk be able to tank grps (make diving damage generate much more threat)
In 1.2 he get mind focus (chane on hit to make next spell cast instant) = that would also help him keep souls strike agroing while not wasting time on cast so he can keep divine fist debuff up
Also Monk lack like hmm.. he dont have actualy armor penetration... how about aadding to divine fist some armor penetration bonus by % of agi/int

Sins, are not good... with top gear they can do 180 dps comparing to zerker 220 its not good, cos leather armor class should deal higher amount of damage.
I hope cope de grace triple critt chance will finaly work, and these classes will be more blanced in 1.2

Sorcer, 7k 2mc spell just sucks due to too low dps, it's like bishop souls strike and only with water globes buff... globes cast time is like 3 sec. and than we can cast like 4 lightning stuff, and than again waste time on globes.... so its usefull only for longer fights, useless for duels, creeps, rly low effektive for bosses like lady(avoiding = waste of debuff time)
I would say adding to lightning spell debuff = lightnign charges, stacking to up to 3 times to realese instant lightnign spll would be good and balance necro/sorc dps and make sorc more prooper looking class.
in 1.2. summon elemental is fine if he stay as pet, other spel is also mostly pvp or for agro boss and miss direct debuff but it fail cos who would waste time for this?
How about making it debuff on target making its next spell cast target him sels if damagin and sorcer if healing.


Other of my notifications and bug feedbacks can be found in BUGreport thread.

 

[tehSonOfTrollFace]

nice idea.. hmm.. while you're at it Z... can you please change the berserker's rage when used and buff still active NOT to take mana... coz sometimes in combat when ppl forgets they already have buff.. they accidentally drain their mana rebuffing berserker rage and unable to use the other spell which require mana, heavenly edge... although its only 3 mana but it really helps and save time when rushing d3

just like necros when they summon, which they already had the maximum skeletons.. where you can't summon anymore and takes no mana...

cheers.

 

[Vestra]

It would be nice if berserkers rage simply had no mana cost, getting angry usually doesn't have much to do with wisdom. Make it a toggle skill.

 

[Hawajska]

Agree

also for assasin for acid vial and/or sweaping blades, cos if we use 1st skill entire shade fight we go oom in the end or in half figfht depending on teams dps.

so I'm up to make mana cost only these skill with require energy, like damaging ones.

 

[Tsumo]

[Cleric] -> [Monk] -> [Exorcist] maybe [Guru] / [Haruchai] / [Buddha](my fav)
would be more fitting because its a kind of holy martirial artist


[Thief] -> [Bard] -> [Dreamweaver] / [Samurai] sound good or?
[Thief] -> [Assassin] -> [Ninja]

[Squire] -> [Crusader] -> [Guardian] could be [Paladin] / [Vindicator] too

[Archer] -> [Druid] -> [Sentinal] / [Forestal] / [Tree-shephard]

i got some nice job ideas in the thread for 3. job

 

[Hawajska]

but Z and other moderaotrs already replyed for this thread that there will be never additional hero upgrade, raither another branch(2 advance to pick) but Z said that also wont be inplemented.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

There's no real point in adding another branching option or branching point with the current content. There's not even enough diversity between the classes currently existing, so it would be a waste of effort to add even more options with even less differences.
Adding more skills to the existing classes will add more flavour to the game than adding more branching.

About Thieves going oom in longer fights:
Add wisdom.

 

[Hawajska]

its an option, but Thieves alrdy lack arp, like 30 for 55armor boss and poison is only -14

so we must go for str and more than 5pts is max due to low hp so we simply cant go omre wisdom like zerkers.

 

[Vestra]

About Thieves going oom in longer fights:
Add wisdom.

When it comes to wisdom in melee builds, I'm trying to understand where you're going with certain squire skills requiring no mana where a couple of thief skills do. I get the whole mana cost behind steal, and acid too, hence why I always asked for those two skills to be affected by int. But things like sweeping blades, where you suddenly arc your attacks for 12 seconds, or bladefury, where you attack fast on a target for ap based damage, or bersekers rage which is literally just getting angry. Those skills could go without mana costs.

sins/bards get out less dps than a berzerker, for a bard, that makes sense to me but a tanking base class with higher damage than any other class is strange. Giving sins the same control over their melee based spells that squires have might allow them to pump their dps up a bit.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Assassins add more support and utility to the group than Berserkers do (trap, steal, acid). Assassins have much better threat control than Berserkers which allows them to do far more damage in threat-sensitive encounters. I personally think it's fine that Berserkers are able to do slightly more dps than Assassins. Both classes have skills that require Mana and some that don't.
I feel it's balanced very well. If you need more mana, spec wisdom. Of course you sacrifice some raw damage, but you are able to support your party better.

I don't get why all people always assume that the usefulness of a class is bound to the dps it deals. That's why most people don't like bards. I played one and I don't get it, really. A bard deals less damage than an assassin or any other pure damage dealer class. However, it raises the dps of all melee classes and even rangers to a huge degree. Add this additional damage to your bard (as, you know, the damage wouldnt be there without the bard) and you easily surpass some other damage dealer classes. Sometimes support is valued higher than pure damage.
With the upcoming 1.2 skills, Bards are able to support casters aswell and also add even more utility to the class.

 

[Hawajska]

errr Z there is something wrong than...

With my assasin i do like 180 dps and i got 160% agro and zerker with 220dps cant get agro... with hc presence I stay on 92% at start i overagro a bit due to sealth 2x dmg for bladefury.

And Berserker should have big dmg at cost of life, but here he is perfect tank and perfect dps and thats wrong.
assasin should have much bigger arp (u know daggers, attack weak spots ect)
and assasin use leather = less armor, as advantage this class should have some more dps then zerker i gues.

 

[Vestra]

A berserker without heroic presence can take agro from an assassin zwieb.
Have you even trialled these skills in multiplayer?

Berserkers have two skills which cost mana, one of which I'm petitioning to change here as it really doesn't even need a mana cost. If anything an hp cost would suit, or just make it a toggle skill 12 mana makes no sense. It really just gets frustrating toggling it back on all the time and having to rest in-between trash mobs when there's absolutely no need to.

As for bards I wasn't bitching about them, they're fine, I'm not pressuring changes for anything until 1.2 considering there isn't much to go by on balancing atm.

Points here that we're trying to make are
Berserkers hold more damage that an assassin, a class that is BUILT around dps, they offer support yes but what support does a class that has 50arp and a constant 220dps need.

Berserkers could do with a nerf either arp or damage output, the class should not be able to tank and damage, by that standard every upcoming d4 run should be 4 zerkers and a bishop.


Also, mana cost on berserkers rage could be removed, or, to make wisdom a useful stat, because it still fucking isn't, put mana costs on EVERY skill to balance out the use of mana, as currently, it's pointless. Even bishops use at max 3 wisdom, mages need none, druids need none, every other class needs none.

If you're happy with zerkers dealing more damage, find a way that assassins actually build agro, otherwise you're looking at classes that just auto attack and that's no fun. There is absolutely no agro management if a zerker is involved.

 

[Hawajska]

I dunno Vestra but I got nearly full gear on my assa, nearly cos i lack only polt.
with coat from shade i got like 3% more dps but this coat sucks vs enemy with armor less than 40.
Tidewalker is better and also give hp, so shade drop for assa, like this duelist sword is just bullshit, no offense Z

fought in d3/shade with zerker, hes 220dps vs my 180-200 and I had easly 120% agro when he tryed to tank without heroic presence, and 160% when tank was crusader not int based with hc presence,
so i think there is something wrong with assasin agro generating.

and coupe de grace tripple chance on critt not work, when its fixed assa can get this 200 dps "if" target has max 40armor, cos for shade if we go for arp we will lack ap and critt, and thats sucks...

so for heavy armored units we have to kiss goodbye critt cos bladefury deal even 30-50% less dmg cos all these miniblows are negated by high armor.
and thats after i puted 5pts on str instead of hp ;(

 

[Vestra]

I'll do some trialling and then come back to discuss, since I'm working on sin next.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

errr Z there is something wrong than...

With my assasin i do like 180 dps and i got 160% agro and zerker with 220dps cant get agro... with hc presence I stay on 92% at start i overagro a bit due to sealth 2x dmg for bladefury.

No offence, but this is just a lie. Sorry. Both Berserker and Assassin use the exact same mechanic to generate threat. There is no skill that creates additional threat for assassins. Just saying that an assassin, dealing less damage generates more threat than a Berserker is bullshit. There's something wrong in your observation. Either the Berserker lied about his DPS or you lied about your threat.
The only solution I can think about here is that the Berserker used his AoE based abilities to deal additional DPS that is not counting to the threat of the targeted unit. In this case, you shouldn't compare Berserker and Assassin DPS anyway, as Berserkers are AoE based damage dealers, whereas Assassins are single target damage dealers.

And Berserker should have big dmg at cost of life, but here he is perfect tank and perfect dps and thats wrong.

No he isn't. Why do you propagate shit like that? They are offtanks if anything. And this is fine to me, as Berserkers where intended to be that.

assasin should have much bigger arp (u know daggers, attack weak spots ect)

This is a gear balancing issue and I will look into it to generate more "optimized" gear in 1.2.

Berserkers have two skills which cost mana, one of which I'm petitioning to change here as it really doesn't even need a mana cost. If anything an hp cost would suit, or just make it a toggle skill 12 mana makes no sense. It really just gets frustrating toggling it back on all the time and having to rest in-between trash mobs when there's absolutely no need to.

Other classes need to rest too. There is a reason berserker rage requires Mana. It's an intended tradeoff you have to deal with. All of the berserkers AoE abilities cost mana. Only the single target skills from the squire base don't. This is intended and perfectly fine to me. It was never intended that Berserkers have no use for Mana at all. When the mana is depleted, Berserkers drop in use the same as assassins do. This is a balance tradeoff where you have to decide whats better: a flat damage boost by adding a little bit of STR into your mix or adding some points in wisdom to maximize your performance on longer battles.

Points here that we're trying to make are
Berserkers hold more damage that an assassin, a class that is BUILT around dps, they offer support yes but what support does a class that has 50arp and a constant 220dps need.

Have you considered that probably the Berserker had benefits from your acid? That the group had benefits from your steal and your trap? Add the additional damage that your group dealt due to acid to your dps and you will easily surpass that 40 more dps Berserkers do.
And if you know argue that Berserkers have no use for acid, having 50 arp anyway: think again! You are now talking about endgame equipment, heavily overleveled (level 43?) for the D3 bosses, which are balanced for level 35s.

Berserkers could do with a nerf either arp or damage output, the class should not be able to tank and damage, by that standard every upcoming d4 run should be 4 zerkers and a bishop.

This is just bullshit. Berserkers are NOT suited as a main tank. They simply have no utility that is required for a job like that. You are basing your oppinion on plain propaganda. And stocking up Berserkers just to make an easy run is not going to work, I promise. But I can see the fun starting when all Berserkers try rolling on the same gear or there is an encounter that gets more difficult without ranged classes ...

Also, mana cost on berserkers rage could be removed, or, to make wisdom a useful stat, because it still fucking isn't, put mana costs on EVERY skill to balance out the use of mana, as currently, it's pointless. Even bishops use at max 3 wisdom, mages need none, druids need none, every other class needs none.

OOM Berserkers and Assassins are made to still have a use for some of their skills (not all). This is intended. An OOM melee class should still be able to perform average, but not to its fullest.

And saying that bishops use at max 3 wisdom and druids none is just bullshit again. You base your oppinion on the existing content, on overleveled and overgeared characters for the existing content. I play a bishop for myself. I am higher in level than the bosses are. My gear is average - the kind of gear you would have when going D3 the first or second time. And I can tell you: being the only healer without any kind of additional mana support, I go OOM most of the fights quickly. We are not talking about 5 level 43 runs here that kill even the shade in a few seconds due to enormous dps. We are talking about the gear level you should have when you actually have a reason to go D3.
Same goes for mages btw.
Just because mages are fine using one mana potion in existing content it doesn't mean it will stay like that. You can not outlevel level 50 content. It was hard stuff to balance D3 encounters until I was somewhat satisfied (I'm still not 100% fine about it, but that's just me). For D4, is definitely going to be easier - and considering that D3 was the *beginning* of the learning curve of Gaias Retaliation, you can expect encounters in D4 to be much more of a problem, both due the fights being much longer than D3 fights, but also being harder.
The overall average of boss time in D4 will be something between 4 and 10 minutes. So in those longer fights, you might be able to use your mana potion twice. Now compare this in mana use to the current content, which usually takes between 2 and 3 minutes, if not less. Of course, the better your gear gets, the less wisdom you will need. It's the same with D3. However, I can see people speccing far more into WIS than they currently do.

If you're happy with zerkers dealing more damage, find a way that assassins actually build agro, otherwise you're looking at classes that just auto attack and that's no fun. There is absolutely no agro management if a zerker is involved.

What the ... you want assassins building more aggro? Didn't you guys just complain before that assassins take aggro far more easy than berserkers do when dealing damage? Isn't this counter productive?

 

[Hawajska]

Z I rly dont lie, i played with 2 berzerkers: Haidel and other guy, I hope one of them will come and confirm it.

We was doing shade with zerker without hc presence, crusader, me and 2 mages and bish
and I holded 120% agro, and zerker told me he do 220 dps.

so or he lied about dps, or assasin generate more threat... maybe its somthing with distance or skills agro gaining i dunno... or hmmm... assasin attack faster with auto attack so maybe this white hits do more agro than abilitys.

I have no reason to lie, and with polt there surely wont be problem with threat, so i just share my knowledge so pls dont judge me like that.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

There is nothing wrong with threat generation. Both classes use the same (automated) system. There simply can't be anything wrong. In fact, berserkers should generate even more aggro than assassins, with demo shout generating a small amount of threat.

 

[Hawajska]

Thats rly strange...

gona check it out again...

 

[lNVlNClBLE]

No offence, but this is just a lie. Sorry. Both Berserker and Assassin use the exact same mechanic to generate threat. There is no skill that creates additional threat for assassins. Just saying that an assassin, dealing less damage generates more threat than a Berserker is bullshit. There's something wrong in your observation. Either the Berserker lied about his DPS or you lied about your threat.
The only solution I can think about here is that the Berserker used his AoE based abilities to deal additional DPS that is not counting to the threat of the targeted unit. In this case, you shouldn't compare Berserker and Assassin DPS anyway, as Berserkers are AoE based damage dealers, whereas Assassins are single target damage dealers.


No he isn't. Why do you propagate shit like that? They are offtanks if anything. And this is fine to me, as Berserkers where intended to be that.


This is a gear balancing issue and I will look into it to generate more "optimized" gear in 1.2.

Other classes need to rest too. There is a reason berserker rage requires Mana. It's an intended tradeoff you have to deal with. All of the berserkers AoE abilities cost mana. Only the single target skills from the squire base don't. This is intended and perfectly fine to me. It was never intended that Berserkers have no use for Mana at all. When the mana is depleted, Berserkers drop in use the same as assassins do. This is a balance tradeoff where you have to decide whats better: a flat damage boost by adding a little bit of STR into your mix or adding some points in wisdom to maximize your performance on longer battles.


Have you considered that probably the Berserker had benefits from your acid? That the group had benefits from your steal and your trap? Add the additional damage that your group dealt due to acid to your dps and you will easily surpass that 40 more dps Berserkers do.
And if you know argue that Berserkers have no use for acid, having 50 arp anyway: think again! You are now talking about endgame equipment, heavily overleveled (level 43?) for the D3 bosses, which are balanced for level 35s.


This is just bullshit. Berserkers are NOT suited as a main tank. They simply have no utility that is required for a job like that. You are basing your oppinion on plain propaganda. And stocking up Berserkers just to make an easy run is not going to work, I promise. But I can see the fun starting when all Berserkers try rolling on the same gear or there is an encounter that gets more difficult without ranged classes ...


OOM Berserkers and Assassins are made to still have a use for some of their skills (not all). This is intended. An OOM melee class should still be able to perform average, but not to its fullest.

And saying that bishops use at max 3 wisdom and druids none is just bullshit again. You base your oppinion on the existing content, on overleveled and overgeared characters for the existing content. I play a bishop for myself. I am higher in level than the bosses are. My gear is average - the kind of gear you would have when going D3 the first or second time. And I can tell you: being the only healer without any kind of additional mana support, I go OOM most of the fights quickly. We are not talking about 5 level 43 runs here that kill even the shade in a few seconds due to enormous dps. We are talking about the gear level you should have when you actually have a reason to go D3.
Same goes for mages btw.
Just because mages are fine using one mana potion in existing content it doesn't mean it will stay like that. You can not outlevel level 50 content. It was hard stuff to balance D3 encounters until I was somewhat satisfied (I'm still not 100% fine about it, but that's just me). For D4, is definitely going to be easier - and considering that D3 was the *beginning* of the learning curve of Gaias Retaliation, you can expect encounters in D4 to be much more of a problem, both due the fights being much longer than D3 fights, but also being harder.
The overall average of boss time in D4 will be something between 4 and 10 minutes. So in those longer fights, you might be able to use your mana potion twice. Now compare this in mana use to the current content, which usually takes between 2 and 3 minutes, if not less. Of course, the better your gear gets, the less wisdom you will need. It's the same with D3. However, I can see people speccing far more into WIS than they currently do.


What the ... you want assassins building more aggro? Didn't you guys just complain before that assassins take aggro far more easy than berserkers do when dealing damage? Isn't this counter productive?

Zwieb, I still back Vestra up on the zerker debate. Zerks, at the moment, deal way too much damage and are still able to tank D3 almost as well as a fully equipped Crusader can. If played right, they can sustain almost as much damage, which is never an issue because we're playing a dungeon suited for level 35 parties.

Yes, we're basing everything off of current content, because that's all we have to work with. I'd love to share your vision of future Gaia's content, but I don't have that luxury, nor do any of the players here. We're simply giving our opinion to help balance this amazing RPG.

It just stands to reason that a sin, who has a weaker armor type than a squire based class, should be able to do more DPS for the trade off of taking more damage. Sure, acid/steal/trap are a nice "support" addition to thief based classes, but they still do less damage/take more damage than a zerker. I'm not the only one who would say this; I'd rather have a team of 3 zerkers, one sin, and a healer.

And I'm not one to care about DPS. I have a monk, a druid, and I'm also working on a bard. You know, the classes that get me called "useless". They aren't masters of DPS, but they also have their own niche. I don't think sins should be buffed; I think zerkers should be nerfed. I have a zerker of my own, so this isn't bias, this is my personal opinion because I believe the multi-purpose of zerkers to be on par with Divine Protection in terms of being overpowered.

 

[Ihazdialup]

Sorry Zweib but I mainly play Berserker and I usually end up tanking D3, Heaven's Edge and Demo Shout carry enough aggro to keep the monsters on you. Also berserker should carry less DPS then Assassins because atleast 1/5th of my dps on shade is from hitting other targets with the splash, so in single target Berserker has less dps than Assassin. My old Berserker before the code wipe help 200 DPS on shade so -20% of that would be 160 DPS on shade itself. But still Berserkers can tank D3 perfectly as soon as they get Eternal Embrace.

 

[Hawajska]

We compare fully geared.

and for single our zerkers do 220.

 

[Vestra]

Idk why I did that wall of text tbh I just get irritated with your opinions zwieb but in doing so I did forget what I myself tend to preach about, we're all above the current units we're fighting. So I'll stop my discussion there for now, if you have plans to spike the difficulty for 1.2 then I'm looking forward to it but be prepared if I still see balancing issues I'll bring them to you, hopefully in a more polite manner.

Regardless, two points there, about zerkers being aoe. One additional unit is not aoe, heavens is aoe yes but that unit in a small cone to you left is not aoe. As I've mentioned before giving them a third unit in their arc might help their aoe output a bit.

And the assassin agro thing, I would think you would want people to manage pure dps agro, rather than have a tank completely control agro while dps classes pile in heavy damaging skills. It would be nice if assassins had a heavy output, but at the consequence of generating significant agro. It might make classes like assassins/sorcs/necros/berserkers look into doing something else other than full main stat/con/a few wisdom points. Even if the wisdom needs go up, you'll still see every class other than saders and druids going full mainstat.

Idk, if I was a giant boss and there was a bulky slow crusader or some piss shitty monk whacking me and a sin comes along and crits me for heavy damage, I'd be irritated with that fucking sin. Maybe certain bosses could have skills they specifically use against classes that deal a set amount of damage within a small amount of time. Sort of like a 'fuck you' to damage dealers.


I look forward to 1.2 and seeing your ideas in action zwieb.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Well ... I might look into the skills of berserker again and do something about the high dps of zerkers. Maybe this +20% damage of berserker rage was simply to much of a gain for this class.

However, we shouldn't forget that alot of balancing comes through equipment. I do all those item balancing stuff by pure assuming which values would be appropriate.
I should make a "trade catalogue" for 1.2 so that I can add stats to items based on the item value, not by guess.

It might be possible that Berserkers are overpowered due to twohanded weapons being overpowered. I'm gonna investigate that.

 

[Hawajska]

And what about my monk idea?

to improove steel body to grant also damge and alow soul strike to hit in AoE.
and divine fist to add armor penetration for attacks with glyph.

 

[texugo1337]

Don't forget about hunter, the dps class that suck at dps compared to any class in the game.

 

[Hawajska]

Hunter do stable 170 dps its not bad for tricky ranger ;p
dunno if meter count pet

 

[Hawajska]

I mean... Zerker dps is fine and all, but there is problem with item.

assasin are citt based for this extra 50% critt power, and they cant go for it cos they lack armor penetration for bladefury.
also new cloak provides no health so its not good for some boss fights especialy if we go for soem str and wis for arp and mana.
I think blade fury need 100% armor pene when used from behind.
and assasin item should be crtt/arp/ap based

 

[Zwiebelchen]

I think about adding a 100% armor penetration for bladefury when used from behind the target. Seems legit to me and I agree that the spread over multiple blows makes the ability somewhat flawed compared to other physical abilities.
However, I think that 180 dps is pretty fine for the class.
If anything, assassins will just get this improvement. I'd rather nerf Berserkers instead of buffing assassins to far, as hunters are somewhere at the same dps with the newest pet upgrade and magician archetypes seem to be at like 180-200 dps, which is totally fine. It's just that Berserkers seem to generate a little bit more dps than they should.

 

[Vestra]

That would be nice, another thing Ihaz and myself discussed is if upcoming d4 gear is class specific then we'd see more zerker specific armour and sader specific armour, which would help bring diversity to the classes, durability wise.

I'd also like to know zwieb what you're considering as a solution to the 4 slots of firelord gear filling up inventories and how that can be fixed once d4 releases. I was thinking maybe add a shop somewhere that sells FR gear or just the urn for mana crystals, once d4 comes out and fr isn't required on every character, resistance based gear will need to be handled somehow so you don't have to farm for hours in order to fight singular bosses.

 

[Eagle XI]

Can the Berserker dual-wield ? Like using axe&sword at same time.

You can do Ancient One destroying only the upper tentacle cause there is an safe corner north of AO,then right tentacle cant reach you. Its spell will hit however.

Gaspode seems to be controllable,(ab)used for kiting the waves boss around the southwest house,at the end of waves during d3. Think its something about player1 being able to control him. Im unsure exactly how done but its happening.

The initial invulnerability of FL when the fight starts is avoided via (ab)using the max track distance of creeps. Simply fall-back to cancel it then attack again. Since this is always done how about he opens invulnerability some time later and not at the very start ?

Seems like the Gnolls and Ogres could use an Boss.

If i have all abilities as Hunter which one of my abilities will disappear when ive summoned the Pet since there is max 11 buttons and the pet adds attack and whistle ? Or is it so that i can either have Barbed or Magic Arrow ?

 

[Hawajska]

As far I know Ancient One cant be done like that anymore

Gaspode can be controled but what it helps? nothing, cos u cant duplicate em, and even so they cant cross bridge so u cant use them to solo d3.
(sound to me like u describe older ver)

Fl fight is also known from long time, players lure him to avoid 1st summon of minions that makes fight easier for some low geared ppl.

and max skill is 9 if remember well so u will have to remove1 (it's for all classes not just necro and hunters who use 2 additional pet buttons)

 

[Zwiebelchen]

I'd also like to know zwieb what you're considering as a solution to the 4 slots of firelord gear filling up inventories and how that can be fixed once d4 releases. I was thinking maybe add a shop somewhere that sells FR gear or just the urn for mana crystals, once d4 comes out and fr isn't required on every character, resistance based gear will need to be handled somehow so you don't have to farm for hours in order to fight singular bosses.

I was thinking about adding an optional player chest that loads seperately from the character code.

It will work like this:
Near the market place of mytargas, there is an enterable building (probably a bank or something) where you can "buy" a treasure chest for a fee. The treasure chest holds 6 slots and can be used to store gear. When saving your character, you receive two savecodes instead of just one: the one for your character and the one for your chest.
You can then load your chest seperately from your character. However, the chest is bound to your character, containing also the hero class and account name, such as the level of your character (it will be upwards compatible, though, so you don't need to save your chest every time even if you didnt use it).

All items you put into your chest are rendered saved, so you can not pass them to other players anymore. Also, all items that you put into your chest do not yield gold or mana crystals anymore when selling them to a shop. This is to prevent players using the chest to dupe and sell items.

You can, for a larger fee, buy up to 2 additional chests, stocking up your bank account to up to 18 slots of stuff. The chests are restricted to everything you can put into your backpack. This excludes materials and potions, for duping reasons, but allows scrolls, recipes, etc.. stuff that doesn't get consumed when used.

 

[Vestra]

That chest idea sounds fantastic zwieb, it should really help build up towards endgame resistance based gear. If you can manage to get something like that working ingame that would be really great.

 

[tehSonOfTrollFace]

the chest idea is good.. so we assume more elemental bosses like FL? and some other gear resistant items?

 

[Eagle XI]

The chest idea is nice but how about i could save some of my gold into a bank so i wont lose it on death. The higher amounts of gold i have the penalty for death gets also sky-high. You can make a currency item costing the amount of gold you want to store and put it in that chest etc.

Another thing i thought was an chest for exchanging materials. You can even put saved ones on you therein,everyone can pickup and use but picked up materials from there cant be saved anymore,can be used for giving mats for someones recipe in the group.

Also i saw this double-page inventory in Tkok,where 6.button is an arrow clicked for switching between pages. You have then 10 slots for carrying items instead 6,wondering if the Backpack could have this ?

 

[Vestra]

Gold loss is an important factor to the game, it prevents players stockpiling gold which is easier than you think, the loss factor is 20% of your current gold I believe, a hefty price to pay but death is death. Having a bank for gold could help later on when heavy numbers in the 100k+ zone are required for items or such, but I doubt that will happen for a while.

Materials aren't hard to farm, it takes a while sure but it's part of the effort of making characters. Loading out mats to make shit will completely render the crafting system useless, since working for the item is what usually gives you such a great benefit, in the terms of FR gear, technically being the only worthwhile recipe based items.

A double page inventory could be useful, especially for longer dungeons where a full set of backup items + backup potions might be needed, anything where slots exceed 6, current there is nothing to do that though.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

A swappable backpack is most likely not going to be implemented. It would cause another code wipe and lengthen the code by a huge amount. If you don't care, I could do it, and scrap the idea of the bank instead. This would save me a whole lot of work, to be honest, as it is very easy to do.
But seriously: You guys would cry a me a river if I would do another code wipe for something like that. -_-

 

[Hawajska]

Yeh.. code wipes became so trandy lately...

bank idea sound pretty good to me.

Z u remember our talk, when u talked about set items, upgradeable legendarys and stuff? are u going to inplement this in 1.2 or later?

and what u think about monk upgrade idea?
also I was wondering about something like 1 time useable enchants.
like fire dmg on weapon, hp on chest ect. sounds good but is it possible to make?

 

[_lycan]

I mean... Zerker dps is fine and all, but there is problem with item.

assasin are citt based for this extra 50% critt power, and they cant go for it cos they lack armor penetration for bladefury.
also new cloak provides no health so its not good for some boss fights especialy if we go for soem str and wis for arp and mana.
I think blade fury need 100% armor pene when used from behind.
and assasin item should be crtt/arp/ap based

wait are you critisizing assasins or asking for a buff?, because assasins kill all characters with 3 crits , so i don't think you're asking for extra crits aren't you?.

 

[Hawajska]

I could say something like that about any hero(Zerker 1 hit revange, mage 1 hit missless + meteor.. ect...)
but dont forget this nice dmg is only when u come from stealth mode and burn all cd.
and assasins dps is similar to other classes like Z said.

pvp is not balanced and i doubt it will ever be cos it require a lot of skill balancing and extra skills to make fair chances.

We talk about pve and assasin's bladefury low dmg vs heavy armored boss and zerker too big dps comparing to other classes.

and Z alrdy replyed for this so it's no point to continue this topic.

 

[lNVlNClBLE]

I like the idea of a bank myself. Would there be any way to use a chat command to bring up the storage from anywhere, though?

I think Vestra and I are just concerned, because iirc, you said there might be an upwards of around ten bosses in D4. If that's to be the case, we might need more than 6 slots, especially if, and I presume this will be the case, normal mobs in D4 will drop gear that is more useful than pre D4 gear.

I'm not sure if it could be implemented as such, but a way to call up the bank with a chat command for storing/exchanging could be very helpful. That way, assuming there are bosses of varying elements in D4, players wouldn't be forced to pick between 2-4 items to bring with them. Then again, this could make D4's bosses too easy as players stockpile resistance items, so it was just a thought.

EDIT: Now that I think of it, my idea could be kind of annoying if implicated. I can see situations where the next mob is, say, electric damage-based, and the tank says "hold up guiz, let me just get out my lightning res armor", and then switches back out after. It really all depends on the difficulty of the dungeon I suppose.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

The bank will only be accessable from the town. You will not be able to "summon" it. It's a storage, not a second grade backpack.

 

[Vestra]

Tbh I'm hoping that we eventually get recipes that use items within the recipe, if possible, allowing players to make high tier resistance gear that supports more than one element specifically for those kinds of runs, and for later bosses that get off high damage of multiple elements.

 

[_lycan]

it would be awesome a recipe that use some end items and upgrades them to legendary items instead of just dropping the item or buying it , it would be a bit harder to get the recipe + the item.

 

[Hawajska]

Than mages will whine that on duel their oponent is nearly immune to hes dmg

 

[Ihazdialup]

People keep bringing up the imbalance in pvp... whats the point of pvp? Just to troll or to be a dick to someone like HAHA MY CHARACTER IS BETTER YOU SUCK CUZ YOU CANT BEAT ME HAHA. I just don't get it, imo it should be deleted for more space, well the pvp option anyways, since we DO have the arena where TEAMS can fight.