• 🏆 Texturing Contest #33 is OPEN! Contestants must re-texture a SD unit model found in-game (Warcraft 3 Classic), recreating the unit into a peaceful NPC version. 🔗Click here to enter!
  • It's time for the first HD Modeling Contest of 2024. Join the theme discussion for Hive's HD Modeling Contest #6! Click here to post your idea!

This guy got through to Blizzard

Status
Not open for further replies.
Level 40
Joined
Dec 14, 2005
Messages
10,532
What? You right click someone's name... that's on your friends list.
Or in a channel lobby, or in the score screen.

If you want to chat to someone and you aren't in one of those situations, the question becomes "why do you want to chat with them again?"

You can only have six people in a party. Also, you can only invite people to your party who are on your friends list.
No, other people can suggest people who are on their friends lists. If you want to play a few games with an acquaintance, you can just temporarily add them--I don't see the problem.

Sorry, I presumed everyone here already knows the restrictions. 20mb cap on all maps, five maps only. That might be increased, but since we're using blizzard's bandwidth a cap will always exist. Why should I sacrifice that freedom for a system that arguably has very few advantages?
I do know the restrictions, as was implied in the "you can only sit five at once" sentence right above what you quoted.

--

About "game mods", I meant "game modes" (yay misspelling).
 
Level 4
Joined
May 13, 2010
Messages
66
@DrPepper

The majority of Starcraft 2 players, especially the ones that have played WC3 or SC1, dislike the same things that Mesk dislikes. They aren't really a minority. The minority is the people that think Mesk is wrong about everything, and are rather vocal about it.

He was successful in terms of starcraft modding, as in, over 500 people downloaded his mod of a 12 year old game. Not successful like footman frenzy.
 
Level 22
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Messages
3,971
something i offered in TL (im sorry that im talking so much about melee but the editor issues arent rly something to be called a prob)

Competitive ladder: A single ladder where no leagues or divisions but all competitive players have to advance towards each other. Ranks could start from 1000, that means you need to play to even reach rank 1000. The very best players of this Single ladder can get into the Pro ladder (like top 50 or Top 10 or Top 20). See? That would be one single ladder that everyone would enjoy and is a big challenege. Not to say it will make players play more cause it won't be as easy reaching higher ranks as it is currently with these 30 or how many Diamnod leagues, many Platinum leagues that may make even bad players be in Platinum/Diamon... the current sucks.

Amateur Ladder: A ladder where all who want to just be ranked high in their own place to be distributed in divisions without the need of even leagues.

Result
So the whole division and 'I am rank 3rd out of 50 players YAY!' to happen in Amateur League, in the other, people will play hard to get ranked or else - shouldn't whine.
 
Level 10
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
655
It was in an interview somewhere, I don't feel like looking for it.

A Blue said that they like the small divisions, because it makes people feel more than just a number.

The argument is that you don't wanna be #14,679 in a division. You would feel like crap.
 
Level 4
Joined
May 13, 2010
Messages
66
@Purple while not every single person playing SC2 has voiced their opinion, there are numerous polls and topics like this where, overall, people have a negative view of the new bnet. This is like having a sampling of the SC2 population and running a survey on them. I don't know much about running correct statistical surveys but as far as I know, those who voice an opinion are representative of the majority, and compose a large part of the majority.

Admittedly the players voicing their opinions that I've seen are mappers, modders, and skilled melee-ers, but I consider them to be the people whose opinion counts. Also, people at the bnet forums, who are often NOT skilled melee-ers, mappers, or modders, also have a negative view of bnet2.
 
Level 22
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Messages
3,971
The argument is that you don't wanna be #14,679 in a division. You would feel like crap.

Yes, this:

http://www.incgamers.com/Interviews/270/blizzards-frank-pearce-interview/1

this is an interview of an Arrogant fox called Frank Pearce

I think we're pretty happy with the league system. It's a difficult balance to strike, because you want to feel like you're competitive within the context of that system, as a player, and if you're just being ranked in a huge ladder against 800,000 other players, or whatever it is, you start to feel pretty anonymous and inconsequential,

look how impudently said:

Another thing I thought you'd promised was chat rooms within Battle.net...


Nope. No plans for specific chat rooms at this time. You'll be able to open up chats direct with your friends, and when we add clans and groups there'll be chats for your clans and groups, but no specific plans for chat rooms right now. Do you really want chat rooms?

Loads of people within the community are wanting Looking For Group chat rooms, and that sort of thing.

Well, if we've done our job right in terms of the matchmaking service, then hopefully they won't feel like they'll need it for that service.

... they won't need the service.. who the hell are you to decide if we want it you no good.. director or whoever
 
Level 11
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
963
Chat for clans and groups really sounds good enough for me.

On a side note, I would bet you any amount of money that the vast majority of people complaining are all talk, no action. I'm betting that the vast majority of these people complaining will buy Starcraft 2, thus supporting Blizzard and its "cash cows". Kinda hard to put your money where your mouth is when you spend your free time whining on blogs expecting other people to fix your problems, eh?
 
Level 40
Joined
Dec 14, 2005
Messages
10,532
@Purple while not every single person playing SC2 has voiced their opinion, there are numerous polls and topics like this where, overall, people have a negative view of the new bnet. This is like having a sampling of the SC2 population and running a survey on them. I don't know much about running correct statistical surveys but as far as I know, those who voice an opinion are representative of the majority, and compose a large part of the majority.

Admittedly the players voicing their opinions that I've seen are mappers, modders, and skilled melee-ers, but I consider them to be the people whose opinion counts. Also, people at the bnet forums, who are often NOT skilled melee-ers, mappers, or modders, also have a negative view of bnet2.
The problem with this is that a real poll goes out and asks random people, while these polls ask like-minded people on a forum where they would probably not be if they didn't hold that opinion (TL is a site designed to hate on everything that isn't Starcraft--their April Fools joke, while being a joke, is a parody of this (http://www.sc2promod.com/).
 
Level 11
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
963
Do you really want chat rooms?

To be honest, if they add in group chat and clan chat ALONG with party chat I think that would effectively fulfill the same person. You could have a group called "My frendz!!1!" and then add people you meet in custom games to it so that you can chat or some shit. I'm just going to wait till release to see how well they do it. If you want to whine about the lack of features in a beta pre-release game, suit yourself.

As for the other non-chat related features of b.net 2.0, it generally seems better, imo people are just making too big a deal out of it.
 
Level 22
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Messages
3,971
Ok I just wanna say - Im done with this topic. I posted in THW, TeamLiquid, SC2 General Discussion, SC2 Beta Forums, SCIncgamers.. these issues, the whole yesterday passed in posting why bnet 2.0 needs these etc etc. A whole day wasted, I did post more than enough and I have exams..

From here there are enough ppl to BASH Blizzard if you think only TL do it.. (check bnet forums and beta forums). Im done, no more wasting even 1 hr on such topic. Maybe an organized 'I won't buy SC2 with such bnet' with thousands of people will be an issue for the money they plan to earn. The message TO Blizzard is clear, give us chat channels, clans and proper ladder or enjoy another 1000 threads how Bnet 2.0 sux and also enoy people going back to Broodwar and war3 Bnet playing there..
 
Level 9
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
704
I agree with the game itself being rather win.

My complaints are directly related against BNet. The interface is flash based. It feels laggy and unresponsive. Even more so than a flash website.

There are no public chat channels, no ways to find new friends or people to play with besides sites like this or joining random games.

Map publishing has no way to organise maps. Its a mess, and popularity based which is something of a good filter idea, but not a good idea for the ONLY filter.

The actual game is great, the ways to get into said game are not.

(Although the game could also be improved somewhat, I find it really fun as it is.)
 
Level 22
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Messages
3,971
Mogglefrooglian BNET 2.0 is exactly what players complain about. And PurplePoot, they even said they would add channels and clanas after the release but someone by the name of Frank Pearce stated elselike in a pretty arrogant way like 'they may not need channels/ do you really need channels?'. No! Make it an empty space bnet where the only way to even say hi is in game lobby... And so I hate that Frank person too. Not to say LAN but LAN is less concern to me. Garena indeed became better than War3 BNET and Blizzard are doing it to prevent happening for SC2.
 
Level 11
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
963
They are adding in chat groups and the like, which will be like chat channels.

But seriously, how many of you honestly would ever look for friends in the public channels, full of bots spamming for random games and the like? Really, the only reason I liked WC3s chat channels was for chatting out with a group of people/friends with similar interests in custom games (ie, chat groups) or for the internal chat commands, which they happen to be adding. Flash based interface, don't notice, don't care. Seems to be just as responsive as every other interface I use.

When joining custom games, you can click the "Show New Only" button. I'm unsure what it actually does, but it seems to do a rather good job of showing both popular and less popular maps. IMO, people are making a big deal out of nothing, no one has even seen what effect popularity sorting will have on custom maps. Seems to me it just sorts out the shitty maps from the good maps while still letting you search for something that sounds cool.

TBH, 90% of my WC3 friends I met through custom games. It seems to me that with the party system, it would be a lot easier to play games with friends, without having to worry about everyone joining at the right time so that someone doesn't get left behind, that kind of thing. I don't really know about ladder games, I never played in WC3, but it seems to me that they were mostly clustered around ladder oriented clans, which Blizz happens to be adding in.
 
Level 22
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Messages
3,971
it's about the feeling, the idea that you can be in chat channel and do all sort of commands /w /j .etc to chat with person or persons, to say Hi, not to be like a deserted place, to feel that tehre are many people.. to invite people to arranged team while not your friends? To doublick their profile, to add them as friends sometimes, to share something about the game even if not your friends... communication, To SEE all other fellows from my country, to see who is in beta, to see who they are if new.. many and many reasons
 
Level 10
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Messages
473
Yes! Its a freaking Desert right now! I see the message 40 000 people playing, yet almost all friends are always offline, no1 talks ingame. And after the game, i cant even talk to any of the players u had fun with, as i have no idea how to /whisper without having the email address
I dont know what the issue is with spam, but i kinda liked the Bot's in wc3.
"Hello, your ping is 38, visit clan www.blabla.com for cool maps and tricks" is not that bad
 
Level 40
Joined
Dec 14, 2005
Messages
10,532
Yes! Its a freaking Desert right now! I see the message 40 000 people playing, yet almost all friends are always offline, no1 talks ingame.
Lots of people talk in game for me, they just generally don't initiate. Try saying "hi" next time and starting a conversation.

And after the game, i cant even talk to any of the players u had fun with, as i have no idea how to /whisper without having the email address
Try clicking their name on the score screen and pressing "chat".

"Hello, your ping is 38, visit clan www.blabla.com for cool maps and tricks" is not that bad
Try 5000 of those and "join this clan!" and nothing else.
 
Level 9
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
704
I posted an idea on the SC2 forums dealing with spam: just increase moderation power.

What chat channels needed and didn't have back in WC3 was moderating ability. We had channel bots made for those. Clan channels should not be the only channel that can have a gold bar kicker/banner. Let private channels have the option, where you can have your own chat channel like:

/join Sapphire

To prevent abuse, it would then allow you, once in that channel, to create a sub channel where you alone had moderation power. You could also designate other people to be mods. It would be something like Sapphire.Moogle as a subchannel from there. That way, people who are being annoyed by spammers or people they dont like could just join that sub channel and anyone they dont like who joins this subchannel could be kicked. At the same time, if someone thought they were going to be a douche and be a bad mod, no one in the regular Sapphire channel could be kicked; it would be unmoderated. You would need a subchannel to have moderation power. People would have to choose to join your channel, and if they dont like you, they could just make their own.

Just an idea. It would allow there to be few to no bots (due to one account per cd key, this is already going to be the case) and any that exist could be kicked. You could have public channels, like Strategy, with various sub channels if things became spammy that people could join (or not, if a private setting was checked).

That should address most of the issues raised by everyone. Plus, this is all purely optional; no one has to chat. The only reason anyone could complain at this really would be increased lag, but text takes up hardly anything anyways so that is a moot point.

WC3 even had the system I was talking about, just in a crappy manner. You could join op <accountname> for this sort of thing. There were also limits on people you could designate: 1. Id say dont limit at all.
 
Level 9
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
704
Because a channel would have a list of said subchannels. These subchannels would also be SUB channels, meaning the original channels purpose would be preserved. Because of this, any public chats being spammed could just join the subchannel with the most people and be free of that. It would be easy to do, and people would have an easy way to do so.

Why wouldnt they join them? Its not just an op <randomname> with no purpose in its name anymore.
 
Level 11
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
963
Generally, the only reason I ever wanted to AT with someone who wasn't on my F list was because I alreeady had my f list full and couldn't add them.

Not really nearly as much of a problem in SC2.
Its a freaking Desert right now!
Actually, its a freaking beta.

Also, with group chat, whoever was forming the group would assumably have moderatoring privaleges. But blah, I tire of this topic.
 

Rui

Rui

Level 41
Joined
Jan 7, 2005
Messages
7,550
Regarding the first link, I have to admit I got worried when he spoke of the 5 map/mod limitations and the map size. He also said that, correct me if I misunderstood it, textures as high in quality as those currently seen in the game take up so much that they're too big to import, and that reducing their quality makes them look bad compared to the original units. On top of this, I'm still wondering whether neutral hostile units are a concept to keep on Starcraft II, so we never know if we'll have more models to work with thanks to them, like we had in Warcraft III.Like he said, and I agree with him on it, projects like Wanderers of Sorceria were successful, among other things, thanks to the custom content.These size limitations, like not only he but also a lot of people here in the forums have been reporting, are stunning.
The word filtrations on Battle.Net 2.0 are a little weird, indeed. «Blow» and «God»? It's not like people don't need to use these words depending on the type of map they're making. The terms might not even be related to the concepts we associate them to.Yesterday or the day before, I can't remember and it doesn't matter, I found that you can write the word «idiot» without it being filtered. =\
About the impossibility to name games, I'm not sure of this, but I could swear all the maps have a «mode» that can be changed? I'm not sure to what extent you can modify this in the Editor, but I do know that the same map with distinct modes or speeds appear in the game list as if they were a different map, so, supposedly, hosts shouldn't have to name their games but, instead, people who want to play will have to search the map with their preferred mode. I could have grasped this wrong, in which case I'd appreciate being corrected.
Other than this, I have to agree that he was a little contradictory on what he said, for example, in the part excellently pointed out by mrzwach in this post. I also don't agree with him when he says things such as the game name are «CRITICAL» (I'm citing here) to the growth of a community; in truth, I failed to understand how they were related (at least to an extent as large as he seems to think).I think mentioning his «mental issues» is not a good rhetorical strategy, specially not if he was trying to «get through to Blizzard».My cousin once told me that he had played games where, to create a new map, you nearly had to create the game anew (I think he was referring to unit data). I might be one of the few to think that Blizzard didn't screw up so badly with the World Editor. It has annoying limitations and a few bugs, sure, but if we consider an example such as that my cousin told me, it might not be as bad as the majority of the people picture it, which is why I don't agree with the author on this point. As for Starcraft II's Editor, I'm relieved to verify that I'm not the only one who finds the object data messy. ;P
I never played Starcraft 1 and I was quite wrong to expect something like Warcraft III on this game, which is, after all, Starcraft (II). I was disappointed that they made so high game speeds. It's impossible to micro with Zerg. Protoss allows you to micro somewhat, but it's still hard. Plus, the game always plays like this: either you turtle and tech or you rush. But in Warcraft III, with the heroes, there is so much you can do. You may have your based destroyed, but if you conserve your hero(es), you can be a decisive help in the final battle. The different combinations of abilities and the number of applications you can give them makes every game unique in one aspect or another. Plus there's always the chance to demonstrate intelligence and skill by microing and macroing, where in Starcraft II it's pretty much send in your units and watch how it plays out (and retreat if you're being beaten, which is not always possible depending on the units in question). Then again, like I said, I'm the one to blame for expecting a Warcraft IV out of Starcraft II.
With all this, I still haven't solved my dilemma of buying or not buying Starcraft II.
 
Level 11
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
963
It's likely that you would be able to create mods to hold models and the like - a mod would have all the textures and files for that model and then anyone who wanted to use it could just set that mod as a dependency in their map. This would have the advantage of not needing to redownload a model/texture because multiple people use it in their own maps.

I hope that Blizzard plans on reducing the size limit before release, or perhaps allow people to share their resources (ie models, skins, that kinda stuff) with the community without using up their valuable space.
 
Level 3
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
60
If you look at just a couple of the campaign screenshots, you can tell there's going to be a lot more models than what we're dealing with now. And those screenshots just scratch the surface. I wouldn't be worried about lack of art. Will there be a host of different alien species and whacky things like that? Probably not, but there will be a lot of extra units and buildings.

The map title screen is still an issue, whether or not we have game modes. For one, sometimes a host wants to play the game in a way not specified by modes. Is it a crime for him to do so? Moreover, no title screen means if you want to join a specific game hosted by a specific person (but you may not necessarily know each other), you have no real guarantee you will end up in that person's game when you select the game you want to play. That might be a very vague description, but it applies to a lot of situations I remember being in when I played wc3 full-time.

(semi-offshoot rant) I never understood why people were more interested in living in a closed box, which is what all these new features make me feel like. So you don't get spam or dumb map names, don't be so freaking fragile.
 

Rui

Rui

Level 41
Joined
Jan 7, 2005
Messages
7,550
Gleeful, I certainly hope Blizzard includes (much) more than what we've seen.
Then I'd appreciate knowing others, PurplePoot, because all the games I've been on play out like that. Of course, there are those annoying Reapers killing your Probes, Drones or SCVs, a nuclear launch now and then, but other than that? The number of strategies you can apply are no way as numerous as those you could run in Warcraft III.
 
Level 22
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Messages
3,971
I think it's gonna be a worse thing. And it has a name: B. Kotick (CEO of Activision), also known as

DARTH KOTICK

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=128252

I will quote the most nerve-racking words of his. Facebook and features of that kind commercializing are seemingly decided by Activison.

Kotick noted that in the past he changed the employee incentive program so that it "really rewards profit and nothing else." He continued, "You have studio heads who five years ago didn't know the difference between a balance sheet and a bed sheet who are now arguing allocations in our CFO's office pretty regularly. ... We have a real culture of thrift. The goal that I had in bringing a lot of the packaged goods folks into Activision about 10 years ago was to take all the fun out of making video games."
 
Level 9
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
704
No, lets not react to what the person in charge of things is saying at all. Clearly he has no power over the company.

I'd be interested in a counter version of that, where all the good points of Bobby Kotick are addressed. This seems a bit biased.
 
Level 3
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
60
No, lets not react to what the person in charge of things is saying at all. Clearly he has no power over the company.

I'd be interested in a counter version of that, where all the good points of Bobby Kotick are addressed. This seems a bit biased.

I never implied anything about not having a reaction to it. I said let's not be over dramatic. Like you said, the quote is taken out of context and appears biased. In fact, there's another quote from Kotick saying essentially that 1) except for trying to help get activision products to sell better in china, blizzard is pretty much on its own and 2) that quote was directed towards investors and he was trying to present a serious work ethic for the company.

Unfortunately I don't have the quote on hand. Even then I'm skeptical, but what's the point of screaming about an evil CEO? Better to focus on the actual issues.
 
Level 9
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
704
Said issues, are, however, ignored at large by Blizzard.

Over 50 topics (constantly sprouting, with one 64 page monster) on SC2 forums about chat channels, I havent seen one blue response except for "chat channels are soooooo 2002".

If they arent willing to refute what their CEO is saying, how can we have any confidence in getting anything changed?
 
Level 40
Joined
Dec 14, 2005
Messages
10,532
Gleeful, I certainly hope Blizzard includes (much) more than what we've seen.
Then I'd appreciate knowing others, PurplePoot, because all the games I've been on play out like that. Of course, there are those annoying Reapers killing your Probes, Drones or SCVs, a nuclear launch now and then, but other than that? The number of strategies you can apply are no way as numerous as those you could run in Warcraft III.
I suggest you watch some high level play. Starcraft involves constant harassment and pressure. The low leagues are of course different.
 
Level 10
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
655
Ok, first things first, the GAME, is fine.

If you don't think the game is fine, play more.


Battle.net 2.0, is the crappy factor right now.

Activision is not allowed to touch actual game making, aka the GAME is fcking amazing.

They CAN however, touch the release date.

Therefore, Blizzard has its hands tied, and is just trying make the game the best as it can because they don't have the time to make b.net 2.0 actually the experience they want it to.

They are being driven by people that only care about money, and are doing the best they can.

Blizzard can't delay the game anymore, but they were perfecting the game, not b.net

Now that they are forced to push the game out, they are forced to push b.net out, and that is why it is lacking.

So stop debating. Do the research. Stop pointing fingers at the people that are trying to give you the best experience possible and point them at the money hungry pieces of shit that are holding the blizzard we know and love back.
 
Level 22
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Messages
3,971
There are some good posts on TL but let's not be over dramatic.

I agree.. So yes bad speech there by Darth Kotick but it may be overreacted and Im tired of this topic as I said previously. Just linking this new thing that emerged.

Dont be hard on Rui, I mean someone who hasn't played melee is likely to have problems with races not to say we are here mapmakers, not players, some of 'us' :) . I could suggest stickying to 1 race and watching top replays :)

I dont mind making Bronze and Silver even Gold as much newb friendly as they want, but they had better merge Platinums and Diamonds into single platinum and single diamond and make one BIIG ladder where you have to play A LOT to be ranked high and ypu have to simply be best of the best to be ranked 1-10.

The current leagues are a 'Kindergarden', a 'Kids Playground'
 
Gleeful, I certainly hope Blizzard includes (much) more than what we've seen.
Then I'd appreciate knowing others, PurplePoot, because all the games I've been on play out like that. Of course, there are those annoying Reapers killing your Probes, Drones or SCVs, a nuclear launch now and then, but other than that? The number of strategies you can apply are no way as numerous as those you could run in Warcraft III.

Like Poot said, you see a lot of those strategies in the lower ladders because they're relatively easy to pull off against other lower-league people. If one of them tried to go against someone with more skill, they'd be wiped out.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top