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TheoryCraft - 1.1j Spell Choices

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So, a quick pre-1.1j thread to discuss the upcoming Theorycraft of which spells each class is going to want to keep, in lieu of the new one(s).

So, to start, a list of the upcoming 1.1j and 1.2 spells:

Bishop:
Plane Shift
The Bishop turns partially invisible for the next 4 seconds, removing all threat generated. The bishop can not move, cast or attack during that duration. CD: 90 seconds.

Freedom
Target can not be stunned for 15 seconds. CD: 30 seconds.

Divine Feedback (passive)
Heal and Mend spells that heal the target over its maximum amount of HP will replenish a small amount of mana to the caster.




Monk:
Divine Fist (passive)
Successful melee-hits dealt by the monk increases elemental damage dealt by the monk to this target by 5%. Stacks up to 10 times. Duration: 2 seconds, but every hit resets the 2 second timer. If it reaches 10 stacks, the target will be hit by a burst of a random element, stunning it for 2 seconds and dealing massive damage. With "Steel Body" active, will also deal a huge amount of threat.

Stone Skin
All damage taken by the monk will be halfed for 5 seconds. CD: 60 seconds

Body and Mind (passive)
Successful melee attacks have a 7% chance to procc "Mind Focus", which has a duration of 5 seconds and renders the next spell cast instant.



Berserker:
Berserker Rage
When activated, increases attackpower by 1% and attackspeed by 0.5%, but also increases the damage taken by 1,5% with every successful melee hit. Stacks up to 20 times. Resets when out of combat. CD: 50 seconds.

Lightning Blade
The Berserker slashes through all targets in a straight line up to a range of 400 and then jumps back to the initial position. Deals melee damage * 0,8 damage. CD: 40 seconds.

Blades of Death (passive)
Negates attack speed malus of two handed weapons. Increases critical chance by 5% for two handed weapons.


Crusader:
Crusade (passive)
The Crusader deals 30% of his Spellpower as holy damage with every successful melee hit. The Crusader also gains 1 additional point of attack power for each intelligence point.

Celestial Thorns
All ordinary melee damage dealt to the Crusader is reflected back at the target as DamageTaken*Spellpower*0,01 holy damage. Damage caused by this reflection effect can not be reflected again and generates twice the amount of threat. Stacks with Fire Shield.

Guardian Angel
All threat generated by the target through damage will be redirected to the crusader instead. Duration: 10 seconds. CD: 120 seconds


Hunter:
Beast Fury
Your servant deals damage equal to 0,2*armor(enemy)*attackpower(owner) and stuns the target for 1 second. CD: 40 seconds

Beastial Rage (passive)
Your servant gains additional 25% resistance against all elements, Your servant gains 1 additional attack power per level and gains 15% attack speed, such as 150 additional HP.

Magic Arrow
Deals damage and drains some mana.



Druid:
Nymph's Call
Summons a spirit to your aid that lasts for 30 seconds. The spirit will heal wounded allies around it with small direct heals. Only one spirit can be active at the same time. CD: 35 seconds

Efreet's Call
Summons a spirit to your aid that lasts for 30 seconds. The spirit will throw fireballs at the selected minion target. Those fireballs will not cause threat for the druid. Only one spirit can be active at the same time. CD: 35 seconds

Refreshing Touch
The target regenerates 5% of mana per second for 10 seconds. CD: 100 seconds.




Assassin
Into The Shades
Allows the assassin to enter stealth mode during combat, removing all threat and allowing sneak attacks. CD: 35 seconds

Coup de Grâce
Deals melee damage * 1,5 to the target. If the target is casting or stunned, deals melee damage * 3 damage. CD: 25 seconds.

Shady Grace (passive)
Removes walking speed penalty in stealth mode. Increases melee damage dealt when attacking a target from behind by 10%.




Bard:
Song of Elements
Increases all elemental damage dealt by 15%, including weapon proccs and all other sources of elemental damage. Only one song can be active per target.

Song of Youth
Increases healing received by 25%. Only one song can be active per target.

Song of Peace
Decreases all threat generated of the target by damage by 15%. Only one song can be active per target.



Sorcerer:
Spell Mirror
The next source of elemental damage to the caster is negated and thrown back onto the damage source. Reflected damage can not be reflected again. CD: 45 seconds

Lightning Charge
Deals lightning damage to the target.*
(*this spell is spamable and deals around the same damage as fireball, but does not have an AoE component. In combination with the soaked debuff, this spell is superior in DPS)

Water Elemental
Summons a water elemental, which casts water globes randomly on any hostile unit in range. The elemental has its own will and can not be controlled unlike other minions. Lasts 25 seconds. CD: 120 seconds.



Necromancer:
Summon Skeleton Mage
summons a skeletal mage to your assistance that throws shadowbolts at the minion target.

Detonating Bones
Destroys one of your skeletons and deals damage to all enemies within a small radius as well as reducing armor to those targets. Does not stack with other armor reduction skills. Consumes rage. CD: 75 seconds.

Mind Control
Turns an enemy unit permanently into a minion, which follows the commands of the necromancer. The unit will use its spells and abilities as usual. Can not be cast on dungeon units, bosses, minions and units with an immunity to this spell.


This is the full list of new spells in 1.2:
I marked the spells that I haven't completed yet, as they are possibly still being changed, depending on how they turn out.

Bishop: Plane Shift, Flash of Light, Divine Feedback
Monk: Divine Fist, Stone Skin, Body and Mind
Berserker: Berserker Rage, Lightning Blade, Blades of Death
Crusader: Crusade, Emergency, Guardian Angel
Hunter: Beast Fury, Beastial Rage, Magic Arrow
Druid: Call Nymph, Call Efreet, Recovery
Assassin: Into the Shades, Coup de Grace, Shady Grace
Bard: Song of Elements, Inspire, Song of Peace
Sorcerer: Spell Mirror, Lightning Charge, Water Elemental
Necromancer: Summon Skeleton Mage, Detonating Bones, Curse of the Vampire
LZ's notes: I underlined the obvious changes from the previous list


Mmm-mmm. Some sexy spells coming up.

So, that means we need to make room for them! Out with the old, and in with the new!

Here are some of my thoughts on the skill-choices:

Bishop: Currently has lots of good skills. Mend, Divine Shield, Heal, Confidence and likely Resurrection are basically must-haves. For damage output, Soul Strike and Crippling Curse are great. Burst of Light is sexy as sin, and shouldn't be forgone, IMO. This leaves Faith, which will likely be the first out of the roster with Bishop. After that, it'll likely be a tie between Soul Strike, Resurrection, and BoL. Hard to say, IMO.... he uses everything so often.

Monk: Given that his Steel Skin (and likely Divine Shield) messes with his healing and damage, I can see him choosing to keep Faith (for attack speed) and dropping either Heal and/or Soul Strike. Same order of tie-for-second after.

Berzerker: Given that they don't tend to use Shields, and they get a bunch of 2-handed weapon bonuses, Shield Bash is a first choice. Following that, perhaps Gaping Wounds? This is a hard one, since they use most of their spells. If they are getting another stun, perhaps Hateful Strike goes in lieu of it? Not an easy pick...

Crusader: Um, same as Berzerker, except that they won't want to remove Shield Bash. Gaping Wounds is a possibility. Perhaps if they are getting more Threat generation, Demoralizing shout or Taunt (I hate to lose these, but it's a tough choice, and Parry's too good to lose.)?

Hunter: Remedy is an obvious one, here. Beyond that... Feline Reflexes gets used occasionally, but the cooldown might make it less-worthy to keep than the new spells. I'm not sure on a third, since Fire Arrow is good, and if you remove Servant you might as well not worry about 2 of the new skills, or the Claw Strike skill.

Druid: Really, you could almost just remove Servant and Claw Strike, here... Perhaps Feline Reflexes, since you're clearly going caster, not attacker. And voila, 3 skills. Yay!

Assassin: Hm. Blurring Motions is too good to toss. Stealth pairs with one of the new spells, and subsequently Backstab and Steal will be needed. Sweeping Blades is a must (Phoenix + Sweeping = gg Armageddon). The passive defines the class, too. Sadly, this might mean Dazing trap goes, as well as Acid. Hm.

Bard: Never played one, so not entirely sure, here. Blurring, or the Stealth combo with Steal?

Sorceror: Fireshield is the obvious first choice, followed up by his Passive +Mana. Neither does enough to compare to the upcoming skills. As for a third choice, it's harder to say... Possibly Dispel Magic?

Necromancer: Same as Sorceror.
 
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Detonating Bones
Destroys one of your skeletons and deals damage to all enemies within a small radius as well as reducing armor to those targets. Does not stack with other armor reduction skills. Consumes rage. CD: 75 seconds.

Consumes rage ?
 
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Detonating Bones
Destroys one of your skeletons and deals damage to all enemies within a small radius as well as reducing armor to those targets. Does not stack with other armor reduction skills. Consumes rage. CD: 75 seconds.

Consumes rage ?

If I had to guess, I'd say it absorbs any threat the Skellie had into your Necro?
 
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If I had to guess, I'd say it absorbs any threat the Skellie had into your Necro?

Hmm...I guess it would make sense, but why bother renaming threat to something not exactly semantic related ? I think the description is off by a bit, for I can still remember the old "Rage" system, where upon being hit, you would earn these so-called "rage points". This must be an old spell...
 
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Hunter: Remedy is an obvious one, here. Beyond that... Feline Reflexes gets used occasionally, but the cooldown might make it less-worthy to keep than the new spells. I'm not sure on a third, since Fire Arrow is good, and if you remove Servant you might as well not worry about 2 of the new skills, or the Claw Strike skill.

Removing servant makes no sense... 2 of the new spells will be a wolf spell so why would you remove 4 spells (servant, claw strike and the 2 news) if the maximum is 9. I'm a hunter and i'll remove remedy for sure, and most probably the passive if it don't get nice buffed. And i'll keep the wolf spells since the 1.2 hunter focus will be the wolf as we see the buffs.
 
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Removing servant makes no sense... 2 of the new spells will be a wolf spell so why would you remove 4 spells (servant, claw strike and the 2 news) if the maximum is 9. I'm a hunter and i'll remove remedy for sure, and most probably the passive if it don't get nice buffed. And i'll keep the wolf spells since the 1.2 hunter focus will be the wolf as we see the buffs.

I think you misunderstood the english.

I'll break it down:

Me said:
Hunter: Remedy is an obvious one, here.
Stating the obvious choice.

Me said:
Beyond that... Feline Reflexes gets used occasionally, but the cooldown might make it less-worthy to keep than the new spells.

Stating uncertainty as to next choice(s). Perhaps Feline (and I justify why I think it).

Me said:
I'm not sure on a third, since Fire Arrow is good, and if you remove Servant you might as well not worry about 2 of the new skills, or the Claw Strike skill.

I'm not sure on a third skill. I think Fire Arrow is good. I think that if you remove Servant you might as well kaibash 3 other skills. Which clearly defeats the purpose.
 
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This topic is like playing golf without holes ;)

This comment is like saying you have 150 posts, but no Rep : SPAM.

As for the above : I'm only interested in 2 major classes : Thief (Assassin) and Squire. It's not gonna be that difficult to choose Coupe de Grace over anything else though, it's too damn good.
 
Sorry, I like this discussion and stuff, but I want to tell you guys that the list the TO posted is like 2 oder 3 months old and not representing the skill selection that is actually going to be implemented later. I replaced a lot of those old ideas by new ones. I also changed some of the spells I listed for balancing reasons. I will give you a complete list once everything is done.
 
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Sorry, I like this discussion and stuff, but I want to tell you guys that the list the TO posted is like 2 oder 3 months old and not representing the skill selection that is actually going to be implemented later. I replaced a lot of those old ideas by new ones.

That's actually even BETTER, because some skills were too same-e...if you catch my drift.
 
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As for the above : I'm only interested in 2 major classes : Thief (Assassin) and Squire. It's not gonna be that difficult to choose Coupe de Grace over anything else though, it's too damn good.
If i had a choise between 3 new spells i would better choose 'Into the Shades'. Assassin gets high agro and also having another chance to go sthealth in a fight means a lot for her fighting style. And actually i dont need another dmg skill for assassin i need some other skills to help my current playing (like shady grace). +dmg skill is only another +dmg skill which means nothing for assassin as i hit like crazy and getting high agro due to high dmg im dealing enough to do my job. Into the shades will also help me stay alive a bit longer which an assassin mostly complains about... Cuz most bishops dont care about dmg dealers like they do for tanks, even if this dmg dealer does tank's job...
 
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I think the skills that zwieb mentioned with different names are just updated on names. Some spells are changed by effects and some are only by names :) for example think about 'curse of the vampire'. it is obviously a mind control spell.
 
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I think the skills that zwieb mentioned with different names are just updated on names. Some spells are changed by effects and some are only by names :) for example think about 'curse of the vampire'. it is obviously a mind control spell.

Perhaps. I think that the Vampire one will be similar to the Lady's Mark, myself.
 
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LanderZ here are my toughts on it:

Bishops: would never suggest to get the new skill that reduces your threat if you cannot cast it on someone in the party its senseless as long as you have scepter. Than about flash of ligh this one can easily go for one of your other heals if its good enough if you like to have it i would suggest to remove the as buff. Divine feedback is a must from all the new skills basically this will be pain to decide how to get. But after all it depends on the new mana system. Currently shops dont need anything except hp and int so i guess that you may skip this skill if you get enough mana on the side(in order to be sure we have to see new version)

Monk: i am removing heal resistance aura and soul strike: Heal is the skill that you cannot use if you tank because of the time to cast it. Resistance is the skill that bishops will have to leave most likely so as we know bishops are always in the game and 2 skills for resistance dont stack so thats an easy choice. And now Soul strike... Well basically with all the new skill you will not need to cast soul strike to get agro+ it may disturb the charges of the first skill which will be very bad for you so i will suggest that people get rid of that since your other dmg skill is pretty nice and will get enough benefits from them.

Zerker: Shield slam goes,parry goes(or gapping) and threat aura goes. But as you said its very hard.

Cruz: Mele aura goes: i know it seems stupid but with thorns and guardian angel i believe you will get all the agro in the world if you need it. Parry should go because of the thorns aura and the damage reflection: if it removes 75 dmg that means a lot of reduction on the dmg return. And maybe gapping :(

Hunter: remedy, net and the wolf strike that deals 2xdmg of the wolf. Remedy is obvious choice i believe. Net is a bit hard but since you cannot use it on bosses its used only for single farming and i dont think you will need to do that. Wolf strike is pretty bad right now so if it does not change i would save remove it.
Druid: as you said Wolf claw strike and feline :)

Sins: Sins GOES :D dunno honestly this char's are myst to me never had one never will.
Bards: sweeping should go some other dmg abilities too basically you will go for buffer not atacker.

Sorc: Shield should go and that makes me so sad... Aura goes 100% and maybe fireball or water ballls since you will have water elementals to cast them for you... :( really hard hard choice... You cannot remove dispell!!!!!!! D4=jungle=poison and shit= DISPELL FTW!!!!

Necro: Shield aura and water balls!!!!
 
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As i remember one of the monk's new skills will make u cast next spell instantly. So what do u think about removing divine and staying with soul strike as u can cast it instantly many times? And if u remove soul strike there will be nothing needed to cast instant.
 
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As i remember one of the monk's new skills will make u cast next spell instantly. So what do u think about removing divine and staying with soul strike as u can cast it instantly many times? And if u remove soul strike there will be nothing needed to cast instant.

dunno about that still not sure how this thing work. Does it give some buff for monk or is it debuff for the thing you are hitting?
 
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From the 'body and mind' name, and the sentence's contents, i think it is a buff for monk lasts for 5 seconds. But ya it maybe debuff on the target too for 5 seconds. But either way u ll need soul strike for it.
 
Remember that you will only get one of the new spells in 1.1j, so it shouldn't be that much of a problem ... yet.

However, these are the spells that I have changed compared to the last set of spells:

Flash of Light (Bishop): Faster than Heal, higher Range, but less mana efficiency

Emergency (Crusader): Selfheal, short casting time, short cooldown

Magic Arrow (Hunter): Deals line damage, drains mana from targets and recovers a small amount of mana for the hunter depending on the number of enemies hit

Recovery (Druid): Channeling, all party members within a short range of the druid recover a percentage of mana per second, average CD

Inspire (Bard): Recovers mana for the selected target. Average CD.


As you can see Bards and Druids get a mana recovery spell that can be used to help the party during battle. Mana management will be much more troubling with 1.1j, as the whole mana concept gets revamped. The cost of most spells will be higher. To compensate for that change in low levels, the amount of base mana heroes have get has been increased too. You won't notice a change in beginning content, but have a lot more trouble with mana on higher levels, making wisdom more important. Also, the cooldown of mana potions has been increased to 5 minutes so that players should be limited to 1 mana potion per boss battle. Mages got Energy Drain ability buffed.
 
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omg great job zwieb i cant wait for it!!!
i hope i can see it by this week would be nice but is ok if it will take longer good works take time
 
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hahaa, so my bard is gonna be useful now! flute with 0.3 mana regen + inspire.. tadaa! walking fountain~[/QU

bards are only neglected now because people feel that they should always go for the MEGA-SUPER-DUPER-1hitkill-dps char... 12 str is always welcome for me + some mana regen or atack speed aura. So please play your bards :)
 
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bards are only neglected now because people feel that they should always go for the MEGA-SUPER-DUPER-1hitkill-dps char... 12 str is always welcome for me + some mana regen or atack speed aura. So please play your bards :)

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED!


I've been wanting to play my bard anyways :]
 
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Zwie i was wondering think u can make that emergency of crusader to make aoe threat too would be nice to hold the aggro something like "and damages enemys around for 1.2 Attack power" i'll leave the decision to you
 
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My friend, heals also do agro, and emergency is a heal so it makes aoe agro, there is no need to give it a damage amount to create some agro. And probably its first usage will be its agro for crusaders. Also Zwieb can upgrade its agro output without any added dmg.
 
Emergency creates aggro the same way a heal would. But compared to other skills, this should be neglectable. Also, as all heals, overhealing does not create threat so there is no point to spam emergency just to gain threat when your HP is full. Besides, crusaders usually won't have the mana to chainheal themselves. Also, you can't, because there is a (short) cooldown on this spell.
it is what it is: an emergency spell.
 
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Are there any spells on crusaders for 1.1j/1.2 that will boost their agro hold significantly?
 
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I'v been thinking this over today

Hunter:
1. Remedy, because of the low spellpower of Hunters
2. Ensnare, because only place I use it is at Andy, so I would prefer a more useful spell that I could use effectivly everywhere.
3. Claw strike, because the new spells seem to be more helpful and doubling the damage on Wolf for 1 hit is worth saying good bye too.

Berserker:
1. Shield Bash, I don't need to explain
2. Heroic Pressence, because I forsee by Berserker as a dps not a tank
3. Demrilizing Shout, because hopefully a Cursader will be in the party.

Crusader:
1. Hateful Strike, from what it seems like, Crusaders can become intelligence based and be perfecly fine with aggro, if not better.
2. Shield Bash, with the major decrease in strength this will become next to uselss, and most high level bosses seem to still cast even when you do shield bash.
3. Gaping Wounds, another dps, low aggro skill so it can be tossed.

Bishop:
1-3. I would have to really test out different builds of skills

Druid:
1. Flaming Arrow, because Druids don't need to dps
2. Barbed Arrow, because Druids don't generate enough aggro
3. Eagle Eye, because I'll be healing not fighting and I shouldn't be getting hit

Sorcerer:
1. Mana Drain, since I have enough mana to last long enough now
2. Fireshield, since it barely helps at all
3. I'll keep the rest of my skills, prob wont get the reflect spell thing

Assassin:
1-3. Again I would have to test different builds of skills to see what I prefer

Bard:
1. Backstab is gone
2. Sweeping Blades is gone
3. Blurred Motions is gone
all due to the fact that I will be buffing not dpsing, but still want to use steal and other utility skills so if there isn't another theif in the party I can still do important stuff

Necromancer:
1. Mana Drain
2. Fireshield
3. Water Globes, if D4 is anything like D3 with the big groups of mobs, Fireball will be overall more DPS.

Monk:
1. Heal, since im a Monk
2. Divine Shield, my spellpower is crap
3. Confidence, what team dosn't have a Bishop for high level dungeons?

These are the skills im tossing for sure except for on Assassin and Bishop, due to there many uses and actually diversity if you think about it. Bishps aren't pure healers and Assassin aren' purely DPS.
 
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You can never remove divine shield on monk better remove strike or resurection the divine shield is like you life savor if you can click fast enough! + strike can become useless depends on how the new spells are working!

Your crusader skill choice is pretty bad i would say. No shield bash is very bad no hatefull is very bad and the only thing i agree with is gapping

And about druid... WHY DO YOU KEEP USELESS WOLF??? its 2 skills that you dont need whereas barbed arrow will out dps the wolf in most ocasions

Hunter here we have agreement though i will w8 to see how hunter wolf changes and what atack power it would have. if at level 50 my wolf got more than 70 ap i would definnetly wanna keep skill with low cd and no mana use that deal 140 dmg!

FOr sorc you cannot say about mana drain. Currently its the most useless spell ever but i would definetly keep it if i start having problems with mana(especially since it is getting some buff).
For Bishop which i play most of the time i am not dropping anything fuck the new spells! May got only the spell that recovers your mana. And dependingly on the new heal can swap it with the current heal.

No disrespect ment but thats what i think :)
 
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yea, I don't mind critiscm, but it seems like you can make a intelligence based crusader in 1.2 so, shield bash will become little damage, and I've seen andy casst shadowbolt, the crusader shield bash's but andy still uses shadowbolt. So the "stun" does become useless on bosses. But hateful I may have to keep, but I will get celestial thorns and the skillthat adds damage based on intelligence. Maybe not emergency. But I do plan on mkaing my crusader intelligence based, which could be more aggro than strength based.
 
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I don't think there will be Celestial Thorns for Crusaders anymore.

And as for wolf attacks.... hard to say. Depends on how the mechanics of these skills work.
 
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and you cant interrupt andys shadowbolt, not with hateful, not with ''frost cage''.. with nothing**
Hell yeah i did! I wish i had the replay but i say the truth that i caged andy. It was a glitch ofc idk how it happened i tried to cage zombie mouse flipped and WAD DA?? andy is caged..
 
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Nope they will be in same spellbook in new vers. Totally max 9 skills.

You may ask why 9, why not 11? (12th is cancel). There are some skills like servant of nature which brings 2 more skills. This fills whole spellbook.
 
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your question is pretty dumb, passives ->included<-, this mean 12 spells total with the passives included (inside the total) not 12 active spells + 12 passives .-.
 
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That 9 skill max thing is to make people build their own heroes. To see everyone has complete same heroes in the end is not a good feature for a rpg.
 
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