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The Tauren predates the Old Gods.

Discussion in 'World of Warcraft' started by Razosh, Jul 10, 2015.

  1. Razosh

    Razosh

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    Every once in a while I find think of something and go absolutely bat-shit crazy with a theory that I construct for the sake of fun. You're in luck because that day has come yet again. ;)

    Thanks to Warlords of Draenor we've gotten a deeper look into the origin of Draenor. Just like on Azeroth the elementals of Draenor has been part of the planet for as long as is known. It seems like the elementals are essential for the construction of a planet. There is only one race that has a religion that describes the elements as the creators of Azeroth and that is the Tauren. The Tauren believe in a god called the Earth Mother and it is stated in the Mists of Dawn that the Tauren believe that the Earthmother (also the title of Therazene, the elemental lord of earth) breathed the world into existence. The text also mentions that she created Mu'sha (the moon) and An'she (the sun) although I find it more likely that Ragnaros created the sun to give life to the world and Therazene created Mu'sha to create a balance for the water elementals. Now you might say "Hey there Ragnaros is evil and chaotic!" To which I'd respond look at the elementals on Draenor who are free of the Old Gods whom all strive for inner peace and that includes the fire elementals. It seems likely to me that prior to the arrival of the Old Gods Ragnaros and all of the other elementals were more similar to those we see on Draenor. (As I've stated before I believe the Old Gods to be the gods of the Twisting Neather but I wont speak to much of that on this thread because that will turn my already huge topic into an absolute cluster-fuck.)

    The second text regarding the Tauren religion is Sorrow of the Earthmother which mentions the Taurens being corrupted by the Old Gods chained by the Titans. Prior to their imprisonment the Old Gods fought one another and seemed to have a rather low amount of interest for the wildlife of Azeroth. This is indicated by the fact that the proto-drakes lived during this time and no incident similar to Galakronds were mentioned in Dawn of the Aspects by any proto-drake that had lived during that period. It seems likely that the Old Gods cared to much about dominating the other Old Gods and taking absolute control over Azeroth for themselves to care about inflicting misery on every living soul. The text later states this. "The Earthmother felt a great sorrow at this, and in her grief, tore out her eyes, the sun and moon, and sent them chasing one another across the stars." The sun in this scenario is probably representative of Ragnaros, the Moon of Neptulon and the stars are mentioned in a later text where they seem to serve as a synonym for the wind which in this scenario would be Al'Akir. The Earthmother aka. Therazane throwing them at each seems to represent them all fighting one another which was exactly what they did after the defeat of the Old Gods acourding to Blizzard.

    The third text is the white stag and the moon. This text mentions that the Earthmother gave the Tauren the love of the hunt which seems pretty appropriate as she herself was stuck in a seeming infinite battle with the other elemental lords. The text mentions that no matter how skilled the hunters became Apa'ro (Malorne in Darnassian) would always elude them. The legend says that Apa'ro fled to the skies and got tangled in the stars. This probably was the elemental plains and not the actual stars. The elemental plains of air probably had a gateway through the skies just like it did in the cataclysm however. Apa'ro used this pathway in an attempt to get to safety. It mentions that Mu'sha saw the helpless stag and immediately fell in love. This time Mu'sha probably means Elune and not Neptulon especially as it says that the moon is a she. Mu'sha made a bargain with Apa'ro and saved him.

    The Forestlord and the First Druids text mentions that the Tauren afterwards were approached and befriended by Cenarius and were though druidism to keep the land in balance. The text mentioned in the previous text mentions the birth of Cenarius a union between earth and wind which probably means that in order to save Apa'ro Mu'sha probably made a deal with both Al'Akir and Therazane. This deal probably gave Elune to liberty to take Apa'ro in exchange that she would keep the land of Kalimdor in balance. This is why Cenarius taught the Tauren the ways of the druid whom already served Therazane. He later spread the ways to the kal'dorei as the Taurens eventually forgot the teachings of druidism, they would always however keep their respect for the earth.

    So to summarize the name of the post how would the Tauren know about all this ancient history unless they were there at the beginning even prior to the Old Gods because no matter how you looked at it the Tauren lore has the elements stained all over it. As Varric Tethras said in Dragon Age II behind every tale in the core remains the truth.

    So this is pretty much all of my theory please post your opinion if you think I'm the sharpest mind the face of the earth have ever seen or a madman and a lunatic. (Or maybe something in between. :D)
     
  2. PurgeandFire

    PurgeandFire

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    Assuming the tauren's creation story is true, that would make sense. Wow, I never knew that they had lore going that far back. :D I might've read those banners once, but it was a long time ago before I even knew what to make of it.

    I never would've thought the 'shadows' in Sorrow of the Earthmother referred to the Old Gods, but that makes sense now that everything is put into context. I think your theory is pretty solid. Out of curiosity, what made you want to read up on the tauren lore? :)

    The part about Ragnaros was definitely unexpected. I wouldn't know enough to attest to that theory, but it is cool nonetheless.

    EDIT: When is Mu'sha supposed to refer to Neptulon?
     
  3. Razosh

    Razosh

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    I like the word assuming that you use in there. Tell me is there any religion on Azeroth held by a playable race that is compeletly inaccurate? The night elves revere Elune and who is almost undoubtedly a Naaru and very much so does exist. The Church of the Holy Light reveres a hero of old who lost his hand fighting an unfathomable evil which in Dawn of the Aspects was proven to be 100% true. (He wasn't the one who bested this evil but that's irrelevant.) The trolls revere the Loa whom also are 100% existent. Some dwarves in turn revere the titans whom also have been proven to shape Azeroth.

    In addition all the playable races who have unknown origin are hinted to at least predate the arrival of the titans. (And all is really just the Trolls and the Tauren.) The goblins are the one exception although that is more likely due to that they originated from an area we've never visited.

    And if you have doubt on the Taurens religion remember that for a long time many doubted that Cenarius was the son of Malorne and Elune since the only source backing that up was the Tauren religion but Blizzard confirmed it to be true.


    Thank you. ^^

    I'm lucky I still have all the tabs open otherwise there's no way I would have remembered. I was reading up on the Old Gods and the possible location of the fifth one. (I still believe it to be Uldaman. ;) ) Anyhow Uldaman led me to the Obsidian Sentinel which in turn led me to the Old Gods, that led me to Old Gods speculation, which led me to Alexstrasza, she led me to Ysera, Ysera led me to Cenarius, he led me to Elune, Elune led me to Malorne and Malorne led me to the Tauren. So yep that's the chain of reading I've gone through today. :D To give a shorter answer though I was interested in Malorne and the night elves are not a solid enough source of lore as they are likely to young to remember those events.
     
  4. Heinvers

    Heinvers

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    Isn't that the Tauren reference/name for Elune?

    Edit: Will update for extensive reply later.
     
  5. Razosh

    Razosh

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    Thank you for notifying me on this Heinvers. Anyhow Mu'sha is the name of both the moon, the White Lady and the god Elune and as I had stated earlier in my theory that Mu'sha (the moon) could be a reference to Neptulon as Luna (Earths moon) is often associated with the sea. The reason I involved Neptulon in all of this is because the Tauren religion states that the Earthmother created the moon to form day and night. I think that the Taurens got it a bit wrong and she created Mu'sha (the moon) to form elemental balance resembling that which the elementals on Draenor seeks.
     
  6. Tauer

    Tauer

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    This is a really interesting theory.

    I was always under the impression that the Old Gods came first. I knew the Tauren were old, but it had never occured to me that any of the mortal races predated the Old Gods.
    I must admit my lore is getting rusty since I'm haven't really been following since TBC I think.

    I will say that your theory makes sense, but instead of actual Taurens being that old it's probably rather an ancestor of some sort to the Taurens we know today.

    I love how in depth you get with your theories though :p
     
  7. Razosh

    Razosh

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    Thanks for the kind words. :) And you have to go very in-depth in the lore to find this info, not to mention it takes a special kind of crazy to puzzle all the pieces together. It's still just a theory though so it stands up on sheer willpower alone.
     
  8. Chaosy

    Chaosy

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    This sounds like something a friend of mine would come up with. And I usually reply with "Out of all the lore things you can discuses this is what you choose?" whenever he brings up yet another 'game changing theory'.

    I am not interested in the topic so I did not read through it :p
     
  9. apcrabnightlive

    apcrabnightlive

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    Wow you are really good with the theory you presented and it had some solid evidence but I always believe that the Old Gods where the first ones in Azeroth. But this theory is pretty cool. :)
     
  10. Razosh

    Razosh

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    Thank you that's always fun to hear. :)
     
  11. Budbuds

    Budbuds

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    I just watched something on youtube last night regarding the lore on how Tauren could be Paladins and Priests. It talked about how Tauren strive to keep balance and the two eyes (Sun, and Moon, moon for druids) and that the Sunwalkers (tauren paladins, and Priests) Get their power from the sun, and went down that past to balance the sun with the moon.

    That might not be written as neat as I hoped but I hope it works.
     
  12. Razosh

    Razosh

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    The tauren do believe in Elune they just do not worship her as more than the eye of the earthmother, but yes their priest and paladin skills definitely comes from Elune.
     
  13. apcrabnightlive

    apcrabnightlive

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    Elementals were the first beings and possibly the creators of Azeroth itself.
    It seems like they likely the first race to rise after the elementals. Since their knowledge of history reaches even before the Black Empire. If their story is true then it creates another question is the origin of the tauren.

    Aren't the Old Gods originated from the Void? The Void and Twisting Nether are a separate place right?
     
  14. Razosh

    Razosh

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    It is closely connected to the Old Gods although any source that they originated from the void seems logical just as it seems logical that the Naaru originated from the light. This would make the two races older than the Titans and where the Titans originated from I don't have a clue about.
     
  15. apcrabnightlive

    apcrabnightlive

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    It seems like the light created the titans to battle the corruption of the old gods.
     
  16. Razosh

    Razosh

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    I'm not so sure that is their origin, yes Tyr and others could use the light but equally as many could use the arcane or druidism so I think that's a little weak to base an assumption on. Their goal seems purely to be to create as many worlds as possible and other than Sargeras we don't know of anyone who has risked his life to safe keep them.
     
  17. apcrabnightlive

    apcrabnightlive

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    That is true.
     
  18. Budbuds

    Budbuds

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    The Titans have to know about what Sargeras is doing to their creations. Why don't they actually try and stop him?
     
  19. Razosh

    Razosh

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    There are only three possible reasons, they no longer exist, they don't care or they can't. The first one seems far fetched and the last one seems equally as unlikely since Sargeras is only one titan and the others are a legion. The only logical excuse I can think of is that they do not care.
     
  20. Xonok

    Xonok

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    Considering how much of a headache Azeroth is to the legion, I think the strategy might just be making so many worlds that inevitably a few will become too powerful to take. Even if most get destroyed, the few that don't (like Azeroth) will be able to survive.