(20 ratings)
Sad but true. The people I play with regularly host a cheated version to "unnoobify" peopleYeh, that what happens if a map takes forever to gain experience.
That map was horriably designed. Comparing a steal axe to a stone axe does not make it a great millitry weapon (although it is still better) when you could be making tanks instead. Just because you are better than it does not make you good.like Night of the Dead
So you want people who are only willing to waste 50-100 hours of their life grinding and not people who can actually play well? Many people like me are interested in such a map but just can not afford to waste their time playing the same map over and over again just to get score. The main reason I resorted to hacking was people who could not play but had spent much more time playing decided to start kicking me because my rank was too low or demanding I do not go a certain class due to locked out skills. A game like SWAT aftermath lets you max rank in about 5 games, and each game is different due to random elements where as this requires countless games and each feels exactly the same. Why must getting good in a map be a test of endurance rather than a test of skill?it should be reachable only for people who are really interested in the game.
Why not just make the map auto end after 3 minutes if atleast 2 people do not load 200 xp? As you can see, logic with that is flawed. Getting 200 exp is not something easy eithor, it took me 7-9 games to get to only 100 odd and that was many versions ago where winning was easier (no late waves). The game became so much easier and more fun after I got a high rank character as no only was I more durable, but the skills meant I could create items like crystal armor which meant that even as a blacksmith I was more effective.as long as u have 2 people with 200 or more xp, it will be fine.
That is why people make difficulties in maps. There should always be a difficulty that people can win, even if they are beginners. When people get stronger due to playing more, then higher difficuilties can be made avaiable where you need the bonuses from loading to actually win. A good example is SWAT aftermath where you can only unlock nightmare difficulty (proper game playing mode) when everyone is a certain rank. Further more, higher difficulties can award more experience which could greatly reduce grinding (if you win a hard difficulty, you diserve a high rank as it shows skill).I also think it is no flaw of the map that you cant finish the map when u play for first or third (or even 6th or 7th) time. Because usually playing a map more often involves learning, which is also some part of the fun (i know that the learning curve is really steep, but the success you feel once u master the game is also greater compared to very easy maps). And if you would be able to finish a map when playing for first time, this map would certainly be too easy.
And how many games does that take to obtain? Last time I could play it took me 7-9 to get to 1xx exp, so you are looking at 900 games? Only people with no lives or cheaters will ever obtain that, not the people who play well and truely diserve it.New rank called "core founder" requires 10k xp, but it only gives a certain aura (fighter: +3% dmg, defender: +3 armor, cleric: -3armor to enemies), and you start with +5 clarity
I think it is written in the 3rd skillbook of the blacksmith how the dark equipment can be crafted.
This is the case for most maps. Save is broken and blizzard can not be bothered to fix it. It does not save trigger states correctly so a lot of complex systems get broken when saving a map.1. Save in multiplayer doesn't work correctly ( not saving rank, saving the game ). Our skills got messed up badly after playing the loaded game ( most or all skills got demoted to rank 1 ) and players couldn't -save their rank.
well the map design/terrain of NotD wasnt great, but the more important part was the gameplay and the required teamwork, thats what made the map unique.That map was horriably designed.
So you want people who are only willing to waste 50-100 hours of their life grinding and not people who can actually play well?
Why not just make the map auto end after 3 minutes if atleast 2 people do not load 200 xp? As you can see, logic with that is flawed. Getting 200 exp is not something easy eithor, it took me 7-9 games to get to only 100 odd and that was many versions ago where winning was easier (no late waves).
And how many games does that take to obtain? Last time I could play it took me 7-9 to get to 1xx exp, so you are looking at 900 games? Only people with no lives or cheaters will ever obtain that, not the people who play well and truely diserve it.
SWAT aftermath had the same idea of teamwork but executed it much better. Atleast SWAT aftermath does not peanalise you for loading (especially the SC2 NotD).well the map design/terrain of NotD wasnt great, but the more important part was the gameplay and the required teamwork, thats what made the map unique.
For people with major learning dissibilities, maybe, but for people who can actually play this is not a valid argument. Skill and number of games played has nothing in common. Yes for your first few plays you still learn about everything but once you see how to use a class properly you can prety much get into the swing of things in 2 games.You actually need that time to improve. Because even when u basically know everything most people still act very slow, although they can craft everything, know all tricks etc.
Because the game is "unwinnable"? Even giving people the pretense of winning is not a nice thing to do as no mater how hard or how skilled they are they would still lose. This defeats the purpose of skill altogether and just makes the game require grinding.Why should the logic be flawed? If u have 1 or 2 people with 200+ xp (mainly as u need Crystal swords for beating golem wave, but thats it) you can finish, if u DONT HAVE THEM, then u can still make it past wave 3 or wave 4 and save.
Have you even bothered looking at the triggers? The map maker wasted time and effort that could have been put into the map and make it better to instead make triggers just to kick me when I join with my main account. Yes I could just make a spoof account and gen me a new code but instead I could just play SWAT aftermath.It is just normal that you dont earn as much xp at the very beginning, i.e playing for 1st -10th time, but later u will earn alot more, for example i and my friends we usually get 120+ (even 150+) xp (ca. 100 is good value). But if we assume u play fighter, get to lvl 30 and finish, that is 79xp per game, so u need just 3 games and u can craft crystal sword, just stop by at clan eto and you will find some good games with high probability for finishing.
1. "Mine is ready to start drilling"
2. "Clarity Crystal is ready to be used"
So basically you can not complete the game without high ranks?we also tryed the bonus wave, but as it is designed for high ranks ofc we failed.
So basically you can not complete the game without high ranks?
Because a fun map is fun no mater what you load?BTW ppl if you cheat your way through to the highest rank in a map why would you continue to play it?
Not everyone who plays WC3 has mental conditions limiting their rate of learning (I am not saying you have, just your statement implies everyone does). For such a simple map it is possible to master how to play well within 2-3 games, 1 if you observe someone who has mastered the game play. It is not DotA with umpteen billion heroes, and hundreds of choices everywhere, that sort of map takes 25-75 games to even get into swing and hundreds to master.The whole purpose of having save/load is to learn the game and eventually master it and then feel a sense of achievement or nerdiness when you have reached the highest rank and for some like me just keep enjoying the game.
It is possible in SWAT aftermath.And no its not possible to get highest rank in 5 games if you like short games go download yahoo mini games....
I think you used to be able to do this in TKoK RPG if you had a good team who could level at continious tough mob. Most good RPGs should have about a 7.5 hour or less time till max or near max for a class unless the code is generic (for all classes) in which case higher times can be acceptable.Is it possible to play an orpg and get the highest rank in 7.5 hours?
No, I was winning the unskilled map maker actually bothered wasting time and lowering map performance just to kick people joining with the name "drsupergood" case insensitive. The fact that I can create a new account and gen me a new 100K in less than 5 minutes entirly excaped him. The fact I have not bothered recently is that there are frankly better maps for me to spend my time on. By the way, I did do this in the past to play the map but frankly I have not fealt like recreating the account to do it again.And whining about rightfully being banned for hacking your way to 100k is.. well DURR?
And what you have to show for all that time you speant? An ordered collection of ASCII characters representing data which I can make in a few minutes. Were all those sessions of the map really more fun than playing another map or even moving to a different game?well DURR? It's taken me almost a year to get 25k why would it be fair to let a noob play @ 100k xp?
you can't access the bonus wave without being founder hence it's called secret wave
These 2 contridict each other. One person is saying they tried the bonus wave with fresh characters but failed doing it, while the other says it requires loaded characters to even initiate (special unlock).we also tryed the bonus wave, but as it is designed for high ranks ofc we failed.
The major problem is people listening. The number of games I played where we said only make 1 forge yet people made multiple really was annoying (as only 1 forge can or atleast could back then work at a time). If someone jumps on an important role, does something wrong then someone on the team should immediatly correct them by giving constructive feedback like (that is usless, or make crystal armor etc).I hate people that comes into a brand new game and takes no time to ask questions/advise and jump straight into the important roles thinking ye I'll just swing it, what else do u expect except flaming from team mates?
Now here is a replay of us winning Terra 1.04 without loading, we also tryed the bonus wave, but as it is designed for high ranks ofc we failed.
That is different, as someone who is new would not have access to such codes.@Drsupergood: As the bonus wave is designed for higher ranks and as you need to have at least 3 founders OFC we had to load our ranks AFTER we won the normal 7 wave game. But we failed as we had no crystal items etc.
There is no such patch, the lattest is is just Patch 1.26.1.26a
Because a fun map is fun no mater what you load?
Not everyone who plays WC3 has mental conditions limiting their rate of learning (I am not saying you have, just your statement implies everyone does). For such a simple map it is possible to master how to play well within 2-3 games, 1 if you observe someone who has mastered the game play. It is not DotA with umpteen billion heroes, and hundreds of choices everywhere, that sort of map takes 25-75 games to even get into swing and hundreds to master.
It is possible in SWAT aftermath.
Game 1 pin, rank 9
Game 2 pin, rank 10
Game 3 long surv, rank 11
Game 4 nm, rank 12 (max)
Many RPGs like TKoK also let you get high ranks in 1 game if you play though it properly, and that map is very long to.
I think you used to be able to do this in TKoK RPG if you had a good team who could level at continious tough mob. Most good RPGs should have about a 7.5 hour or less time till max or near max for a class unless the code is generic (for all classes) in which case higher times can be acceptable.
You must remember that a map is just part of WC3, it is competing for time with other maps. If your map is slow and boring to get anywhere (like this) it will easilly lose out to much faster paced maps where you have a lot more to do or just are rewarded faster.
No, I was winning the unskilled map maker actually bothered wasting time and lowering map performance just to kick people joining with the name "drsupergood" case insensitive. The fact that I can create a new account and gen me a new 100K in less than 5 minutes entirly excaped him. The fact I have not bothered recently is that there are frankly better maps for me to spend my time on. By the way, I did do this in the past to play the map but frankly I have not fealt like recreating the account to do it again.
And what you have to show for all that time you speant? An ordered collection of ASCII characters representing data which I can make in a few minutes. Were all those sessions of the map really more fun than playing another map or even moving to a different game?
And what evidence do you have that I am a "noob"? It could well be that with an attitude towards maps like you have that you are a 25K "noob" like you got in maps like NotD all the time. However as I have not seen you play I can not make such an acquisation but like wise you can not make one towards me as you have not seen me play. The fact is that code experience has nothing to do with player skill, only amount of hours of ones life you waste on the map which is a rather bad design for a map.
These 2 contridict each other. One person is saying they tried the bonus wave with fresh characters but failed doing it, while the other says it requires loaded characters to even initiate (special unlock).
The major problem is people listening. The number of games I played where we said only make 1 forge yet people made multiple really was annoying (as only 1 forge can or atleast could back then work at a time). If someone jumps on an important role, does something wrong then someone on the team should immediatly correct them by giving constructive feedback like (that is usless, or make crystal armor etc).
The map is hardly difficult to play well. The fighter classes are prety much implicit, as they follow very simple WC3 combat mechanics so one can prety much hop in play like a "pro" as long as you are aware of what you are up against and have played atleast some WC3. The builder classes are more tricky as what they need to do is not very implicit. However as long as people atleast hint you as to what you must do, you can end up doing it well easilly.
What is annoying about this map is the builder class "exclusiveness". Just because you can not make crystal armor, people would force you not to take that blacksmith over someone who can. Even to the stage where people admiting they have never blacksmithed before (for the same reason) were being made to blacksmith over somone with a low rank but who has blacksmithed many times. I resorted to fixing this by simply giving myself 100K exp via simple script export and modification. After I did this no one ever refused me a position I wanted on the grounds of "you do not have enough rank".
The only reason this map has aged so well is the fact it is hosted by a bot like 24/7 for years. Most people like myself played it 20-30 times back when it was first released and got prety bored of it (seen everything, done everything). The fact the map was made even longer does not particually make me want to play it, as the old one used to waste 1-2 hours of time a full session.
His map was made mostly in GUI, which is why it leaked so much and had so many bugs. I hope he has finally decided to use JASS.astound a person who has created a map that requires more than 100 lines of code
There is no such patch, the lattest is is just Patch 1.26.