Terrain change near height increase/decrease

[WarCortez]

I'm doing a Dalaran Ruins map. It has only one type of tile when it comes to height change (not counting dirt). Generally, the game doesn't let you change the terrain tile one square from height change. Is it possible to overcome that?

 

[Dr Super Good]

I do not think so. Attempts to mix cliffs closer than the "safe" limit often result in very buggy or weird terrain mesh geometry.

If you mean "tile type" then that has no limit as it is entirely separate from cliffs. Just the cliff texture and geometry will be put over the terrain type at that terrain node.

 

[WarCortez]

If you mean "tile type" then that has no limit as it is entirely separate from cliffs. Just the cliff texture and geometry will be put over the terrain type at that terrain node.

Yeah, I was wondering if you can change the tile at the base of the cliff. I thought there may be a trick to it but apparently not.

 

[Pyrogasm]

It is possible to fully overwrite the cliff texture files with an import to make cliffs using any of the default terrain tiles. Might not look great but it should work; I've used something in the cityscape tileset to make wavy tiled walls. Don't have more information as it was years ago, but whatever I looked up was here on this site. I believe there was actually a tileset tool I found?

 

[WarCortez]

It is possible to fully overwrite the cliff texture files with an import to make cliffs using any of the default terrain tiles. Might not look great but it should work; I've used something in the cityscape tileset to make wavy tiled walls. Don't have more information as it was years ago, but whatever I looked up was here on this site. I believe there was actually a tileset tool I found?

The reason I'm asking is strictly aesthetical (due to the tile difference between cliff and available textures. But if the import doesn't look great, I wonder whether it's a good trade-off.

Edit: Do you have a screenshot about the one you made?

 

[Pyrogasm]

Hmm, found the map and I just frankly don't remember what I did or why I stopped where I stopped. Here's a screenshot:

https://imgur.com/4Luim35

The issue is that lighter grey bit between the red of the new cliff tile and the dark grey in the middle where the next adjacent tile starts. as well as the hard edge at the base. It's my intuition that with a bit more finagling of the actual terrain texture file it should be possible to fix that and build the cliff as you want, but again I don't actually remember what I did. The map is attached and opens fine in the modern editor though it's from 2020.

Upon further reflection I may have misunderstood where exactly you wanted to change the tile.

 

[WarCortez]

Hmm, found the map and I just frankly don't remember what I did or why I stopped where I stopped. Here's a screenshot:

https://imgur.com/4Luim35

The issue is that lighter grey bit between the red of the new cliff tile and the dark grey in the middle where the next adjacent tile starts. as well as the hard edge at the base. It's my intuition that with a bit more finagling of the actual terrain texture file it should be possible to fix that and build the cliff as you want, but again I don't actually remember what I did. The map is attached and opens fine in the modern editor though it's from 2020.

Upon further reflection I may have misunderstood where exactly you wanted to change the tile.

Your cliff seems like a slightly improved version of the game's one full square tile although that way the difference between the red and the dirt seems more pronounced. I've tried looking this up but many people seems to say that this kind of modding is buggy.

 

[Pyrogasm]

Yes, manipulating cliffs has always been extremely weird and limiting, as Dr Super Good implied. If it's worth the time to you I would extract my imported .blp and try to compare it to other cliff .blps to see what is missing. The inner/upper straight edge seems to be that way because the appropriate tiles to fill in along those edges simply don't exist. Look at the unedited grass cliff and you can see it roughly matches with that.

 

[WarCortez]

Yes, manipulating cliffs has always been extremely weird and limiting, as Dr Super Good implied. If it's worth the time to you I would extract my imported .blp and try to compare it to other cliff .blps to see what is missing. The inner/upper straight edge seems to be that way because the appropriate tiles to fill in along those edges simply don't exist. Look at the unedited grass cliff and you can see it roughly matches with that.

My case is a Dalaran Ruins map with next to no natural ground, but marbles and bricks. I'm not sure how much work is it to apply and what would be the result. Here's an example of how my unmodded terrain looks like. I wonder if the edited one would be a notable improvement.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Yeah, I was wondering if you can change the tile at the base of the cliff. I thought there may be a trick to it but apparently not.

Yes it is entirely possible. Just the results are weird. Cliffs are baked into the mesh geometry so use their associated pieces and textures between the terrain nodes affected by the cliff. For this to look good, the surrounding terrain textures should be the accompanying tile type for the cliff. However, they do not have to be with there instead being a sharp, non-blended, transition to the other tile type at the end of the section affected by the cliff. Like wise, if you put 2 conflicting cliff meshes without a safe zone around them, the resulting terrain mesh can be very ugly with visible seams into the abys where the two cliff meshes do not match up correctly.

Triggers reading the terrain texture ignore the cliff entirely so can return the terrain type being hidden by the cliff mesh overriding it.

Pyrogasm's screenshot is showing this happening.

Since there are only 2 cliff geometries, it is entirely possible to get a brick natural cliff, or a grass artificial cliff as well. As also seen in this screenshot. Trying to mix the visible two near each other causes visible seams I described earlier.

A lot of this requires using third party tools or scripts to modify the .w3e terrain mesh file. World Edit has built in logic and checks that try their best to prevent you encountering this underlying behaviour. It is also possible Reforged logic might change how this manifests, I am going off memory from roughly a decade ago.

 

[WarCortez]

Yes it is entirely possible. Just the results are weird. Cliffs are baked into the mesh file so use their associated pieces and textures between the terrain nodes affected by the cliff. For this to look good, the surrounding terrain textures should be the accompanying tile type for the cliff. However, they do not have to be with there instead being a sharp, non-blended, transition to the other tile type at the end of the section affected by the cliff. Like wise, if you put 2 conflicting cliff meshes without a safe zone around them, the resulting terrain mesh can be very ugly with visible seams into the abys where the two cliff meshes do not match up correctly.

Triggers reading the terrain texture ignore the cliff entirely so can return the terrain type being hidden by the cliff mesh overriding it.

Pyrogasm's screenshot is showing this happening.

Since there are only 2 cliff geometries, it is entirely possible to get a brick natural cliff, or a grass artificial cliff as well. As also seen in this screenshot. Trying to mix the visible two near each other causes visible seams I described earlier.

A lot of this requires using third party tools or scripts to modify the .w3e terrain mesh file. World Edit has built in logic and checks that try their best to prevent you encountering this underlying behaviour. It is also possible Reforged logic might change how this manifests, I am going off memory from roughly a decade ago.

I see. So, it really doesn't yield enough result to worth the trouble.

 

[ThompZon]

Then there is always Doodads + black tile option of doing things using for example:

Dungeon Tiles & Objects

Doodads and destructibles for designing your own, bigger, better dungeons. Pathing Textures: Most walls are made to fit with either of the following pathing textures, for easy placement in the map: PathTextures\4x2Default.tga PathTextures\2x2Default.tga If not, the correct pathing texture will...

www.hiveworkshop.com

The "cliff" is just a doodad, so ground texture can be whatever...

Then there is always the possibility for a "ground" doodad that you put 0.01 above the actual ground with the texture you want... But also not really great. (needs a custom model with your preferred texture)

Neither of these options are really an easy solution to your problem...

 

[WarCortez]

Then there is always Doodads + black tile option of doing things using for example:

Dungeon Tiles & Objects

Doodads and destructibles for designing your own, bigger, better dungeons. Pathing Textures: Most walls are made to fit with either of the following pathing textures, for easy placement in the map: PathTextures\4x2Default.tga PathTextures\2x2Default.tga If not, the correct pathing texture will...

www.hiveworkshop.com

The "cliff" is just a doodad, so ground texture can be whatever...

Then there is always the possibility for a "ground" doodad that you put 0.01 above the actual ground with the texture you want... But also not really great. (needs a custom model with your preferred texture)

Neither of these options are really an easy solution to your problem...

Although it's not really designed for my map (dalaran ruins not dungeon), this design looks dope. Not sure how the map would handle cliff that's completely replaced by doodads, it could be massive amount of doodads if they're used for cliff.