Techtree Contest #16 Theme Discussion

[Daffa]

Alright, since TC15 results are out, I'd say let's prepare the next one

Let's talk about what is the theme for the next one. I'll offer some to start, but feel free to add another idea, since I'm sure there's a lot of ideas out there. If anyone has fancy TC idea, do tell ^^

Creep Resurgence/Retribution: Make a race based on creeps (something like Creep Rebellion mod, though doesn't have to be on that scale)
Biome: Make a race based on terrain (for example, Ashenvale would have nature-related units in their faction, with benefits from forests) (similar to an old TC contest, either 8 or 9)
Liminal: Faction can only fight effectively during Dawn/Dusk (3:00-9:00) (akin to Night Elves)
No Training: Faction cannot train troops through conventional means
Forced Conglomerate: Another idea from TC15, making a faction by merging two faction theme.
Light has Left: Create a faction thematically around the abandonment of light.
Faith: Create a faction related to faith.

Spoiler: dumped ideas, either too impractical or too boring

Naval Warfare: Make a faction that has reliance over naval warfare
Skybanned: Make a full-fledged race with no air unit
Unit Ascends: Take a melee unit and make a faction around said unit (akin to TC15, but with units instead of champions)

 

[Footman16]

Faith themed

 

[Daffa]

Faith themed

Dang it!

I'd say it might be along Mythology line, more or less.

EDIT:
Added Naval Warfare.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Petition for permanent change to Rules: no more full races, only "mini-races" required (2 Tiers, Heroes, 6-8 units, 6-8 buildings, etc).

Also we've been talking about it a bunch but I'll say it here just so it's on the forums: Abolish the Balance Criteria!

 

[Footman16]

Petition for permanent change to Rules: no more full races, only "mini-races" required (2 Tiers, Heroes, 6-8 units, 6-8 buildings, etc).

Also we've been talking about it a bunch but I'll say it here just so it's on the forums: Abolish the Balance Criteria!

Awww that's no fun I like full tech-trees and making them.

As for themes there was a mythological one a while back that definitely peaked my interest. I had a bunch of ideas about making a race themed around Scottish/British myths and legends. Which would also make use of some cool skins on this site I've always wanted to use.

 

[Daffa]

I think we can consider Mythology if people are up for that ^^

 

[Footman16]

I think we can consider Mythology if people are up for that ^^

Yeah I'm pretty sure its been done before though so we'd maybe need to check about that and if so maybe see if it could be changed slightly just so its not the exact same.

Or if people are happy doing the same theme more than once then there isn't an issue. I know I'd like to see more people's takes on Co-op Commanders some time in the future

 

[Riki]

No time for a break, right?

Well, now I'm focused on the Minimap Contest, but if the opportunity for a new TC presents, I'll make some time for it

Creep Resurgence: Make a full-fledged race based on creeps (something like Creep Rebellion mod, though doesn't have to be on that scale)

I've some ideas for this. It's a theme with a good potential and the participants will probably like it.

Biome: Make a full-fledged race based on terrain (for example, Ashenvale would have nature-related units in their faction, with benefits from forests) (similar to an old TC contest, either 8 or 9)

Another interesting theme, I would like to see what people can do with it.

Liminal: Faction can only fight effectively during Dawn/Dusk (3:00-9:00) (akin to Night Elves)

A bit strange, but sometimes those themes can be the best... or not?

I am concerned that it could result in repetitive and very similar ideas among the participants.

No Training: Faction cannot train troops through conventional means

This reminds me of the TC12... in which I finally ended up leaving.

Although, I would like to try something similar again.

Unit Ascends: Take a melee unit and make a faction around said unit (akin to TC15, but with units instead of champions)

I don't know, I mean, creating a faction based on champions gives you a greater range of action. You can base your ideas on their history, personality and the legacy they left behind.

But create a faction around an unit can be very limiting in a number of ways.

Forced Conglomerate: Another idea from TC15, making a faction by merging two faction theme.

Can be interesting a faction of two completely opposite races fighting together.

It will only remain to see what factions can be valid for the weird combinations.

Skybanned: Make a full-fledged race with no air unit

Naval Warfare: Make a faction that has reliance over naval warfare

About Skybanned, I think it's somewhat a very basic theme, and Naval Warfare can be problematic due to the lack of proper maps for it.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Awww that's no fun I like full tech-trees and making them.

Wu-wut?? Really? I've never known anyone to *embrace* the onerous task of making an entire faction; it's a necessary evil to designing one. Tell me more (maybe via DM).

 

[Xelos]

Creep Resurgence: Make a full-fledged race based on creeps (something like Creep Rebellion mod, though doesn't have to be on that scale)

i like this idea, would call it more like creep revenge, retribution of the weak ....,

 

[Linaze]

Petition for permanent change to Rules: no more full races, only "mini-races" required (2 Tiers, Heroes, 6-8 units, 6-8 buildings, etc).

Basically this. I likely won't join if I have to make 3-4 heroes and a bunch of items. A Naga-esque race however is a lot more feasible/manageable.

 

[Vinz]

Basically this. I likely won't join if I have to make 3-4 heroes and a bunch of items. A Naga-esque race however is a lot more feasible/manageable.

Fortunately, the minimum has been one hero since TC13, and, since the last contest, both the minimum unit and building counts are now 6.

 

[AMarkov]

Theme - "The Holy Light Has Left Us".
I suggest the theme of evil based on caricatures, a villain with his minions, or a holy race from which the light turned away, or the world that the Sun left.
Quite a funny theme coming out of the "faith" joke.

 

[Daffa]

No time for a break, right?

Well, now I'm focused on the Minimap Contest, but if the opportunity for a new TC presents, I'll make some time for it



I've some ideas for this. It's a theme with a good potential and the participants will probably like it.



Another interesting theme, I would like to see what people can do with it.



A bit strange, but sometimes those themes can be the best... or not?

I am concerned that it could result in repetitive and very similar ideas among the participants.



This reminds me of the TC12... in which I finally ended up leaving.

Although, I would like to try something similar again.



I don't know, I mean, creating a faction based on champions gives you a greater range of action. You can base your ideas on their history, personality and the legacy they left behind.

But create a faction around an unit can be very limiting in a number of ways.



Can be interesting a faction of two completely opposite races fighting together.

It will only remain to see what factions can be valid for the weird combinations.



About Skybanned, I think it's somewhat a very basic theme, and Naval Warfare can be problematic due to the lack of proper maps for it.

So, if I get this right, you're in favor with Biome, Creep, Forced Conglomerate, right?

i like this idea, would call it more like creep revenge, retribution of the weak ....,

Yeah, I suck with names to be honest.

Basically this. I likely won't join if I have to make 3-4 heroes and a bunch of items. A Naga-esque race however is a lot more feasible/manageable.

Now you mentioned it, that's a good point. I'll edit the first post.

Theme - "The Holy Light Has Left Us".
I suggest the theme of evil based on caricatures, a villain with his minions, or a holy race from which the light turned away, or the world that the Sun left.
Quite a funny theme coming out of the "faith" joke.

View attachment 363274

It is an interesting theme, and has some interesting quirks of it's own. I think this might also work, though a shorter name perhaps? Light has Left? Any idea?

 

[Kyrbi0]

Fortunately, the minimum has been one hero since TC13, and, since the last contest, both the minimum unit and building counts are now 6.

Bah. I'm not talking about "minimums"; we need to all be on an even playing field. I can't decide to make 2 heroes in a hero Contest, or 3 models in a modeling Contest, after all. ; )

 

[AMarkov]

It is an interesting theme, and has some interesting quirks of it's own. I think this might also work, though a shorter name perhaps? Light has Left? Any idea?

Perhaps your version is more presentable.

Theme - "Light has Left"

I suggest the theme of evil based on caricatures, a villain with his minions, or a holy race from which the light turned away, or the world that the Sun left.

Quite a funny theme coming out of the "faith" joke.

 

[Riki]

So, if I get this right, you're in favor with Biome, Creep, Forced Conglomerate, right?

I'm mainly in favor of Creeps and Forced Conglomerate.

Theme - "The Holy Light Has Left Us".
I suggest the theme of evil based on caricatures, a villain with his minions, or a holy race from which the light turned away, or the world that the Sun left.
Quite a funny theme coming out of the "faith" joke.

View attachment 363274

This can be another interesting theme for the contest.

 

[Wazzz]

In recent discord discussions, I have a particular fondness of the possibility of a theme left up for interpretation by the contestants intentionally.

So, Faith theme, as it is, left open ended for users to play around with. Following site rules is still required, as well as the other general prevalent rules.

 

[Daffa]

In recent discord discussions, I have a particular fondness of the possibility of a theme left up for interpretation by the contestants intentionally.

So, Faith theme, as it is, left open ended for users to play around with. Following site rules is still required, as well as the other general prevalent rules.

So, Faith theme actual theme eh? That's interesting ^^

I'll add it up to the front post when I can.

 

[MyPad]

Creep Resurgence/Retribution: Make a race based on creeps (something like Creep Rebellion mod, though doesn't have to be on that scale)

The creeps will have their revenge against those who have excessively farmed and shilled them out of their hard-earned gold. This could work, but if the creeps are gonna have their rebellion, who will be their creeps? Wouldn't it be a vicious cycle? /s

 

[Wazzz]

That does remind me of the mods that had creep races where the creeps were actually the melee units. It truly was a vicious cycle.

@Linaze had some interesting concepts towards the sort of direction themes could go, where people could really get to explore as much as they want in terms of creativity within very flexible parameters.

I suppose I should ask, though, how soon do we want the next contest to be up? Also, how long do we want the duration to be?

 

[Daffa]

The creeps will have their revenge against those who have excessively farmed and shilled them out of their hard-earned gold. This could work, but if the creeps are gonna have their rebellion, who will be their creeps? Wouldn't it be a vicious cycle? /s

It is a controversial, and vicious of a cycle.

That does remind me of the mods that had creep races where the creeps were actually the melee units. It truly was a vicious cycle.

@Linaze had some interesting concepts towards the sort of direction themes could go, where people could really get to explore as much as they want in terms of creativity within very flexible parameters.

I suppose I should ask, though, how soon do we want the next contest to be up? Also, how long do we want the duration to be?

Would love to hear his input. I'm sure there are more to discover out there ^^

===

Anyway, I'd say either Creep Resurgence or Faith. Light has Left is a third choice for me personally.

===

@Footman16 @MyPad @Kyrbi0 @Wazzz @Riki @AMarkov @Linaze @Kam @Moonman @johnwar @Bangsgaard @xYours Trulyx @SgtWinter Did I miss anyone?

 

[Wazzz]

Only @Spellbound and @Mythic from what I can tell

 

[Daffa]

Ah yeah, forgot. My apologies

 

[Kyrbi0]

I know I won't be joining, so I don't want to weigh in too much.

That being said MAGIC THE GATHERING COLOR PIE COMBINATIONS

 

[Linaze]

Would love to hear his input. I'm sure there are more to discover out there ^^

Checking in.

So what we were discussing on the discord was sort of meta, in the sense that it was a discussion about themes in general more so than discussing potential themes (although we did that as well).

For me themes can be a vast array of different things, depending on what you want to "achieve" with it:

• A theme can be a limitation in how a race is designed/created, such as no or limited imports or a maximum number of units/structures/heroes. I guess in a sense this is kind of a "mechanical" theme and is not very, for lack of a better word, "thematic". Restrictions can be frustrating, but they can also encourage creative workarounds.
• Another way to approach themes is too look at them more as general/vague concepts than something very concrete. I think themes like Magic, Darkness and the aforementioned Faith would fall under this category. Because of the vagueness of these themes, most anything could qualify with a decent enough justification. In the case of a hypothetical "Magic" theme, anything from a Dalaran race to a race that just generally emphasizes magic damage would be thematically fine.
• Last category (that I thought up, I am sure there are more, mind) would be the more narrow themes that encapsulates a specific idea/concept and forces each contestant to work around that. Examples could be Elementals, make-a-creep-race or make a derivative of an existing race's sub-race (elves, dwarves, trolls etc). I would say it's a bit more expected here what the contestants are going to produce, for better or for worse.

[/walloftext]

As for this contest's actual theme discussion: I like mini-races and would love if that in itself was theme (or at least a derivative of it was). Otherwise perhaps "pick-an-element" and design a race thereafter. Feels like that was already done, though. I haven't followed these contests all too well last 5 or so years.

 

[Riki]

This is taking an intriguing direction. No matter what is decided, I will participate.

 

[Footman16]

@Footman16 @MyPad @Kyrbi0 @Wazzz @Riki @AMarkov @Linaze @Kam @Moonman @johnwar @Bangsgaard @xYours Trulyx @SgtWinter Did I miss anyone?

Not sure what the tag is for specifically lol.

As for the discussion. There's something about creep resurgence that just seems overdone to me.

The other themes sound good, i feel like biomes never been given a good chance.

Saying all this though dont know if I'll have much time to enter a contest now lockdowns ending and things are going back normal along with hopefully a new job.

So what I'm saying is i wouldnt take my opinion with much weight, dont want to influence a contest i might not be involved in

 

[SgtWinter]

I'm pretty fine with anything as I'll participate regardless.

 

[Wazzz]

Now, since we've explored some theme options, I would like to know - how soon would people like the next contest to be? We could put something up right away, but if people need a bit of a breather in between rounds we can certainly delay it a bit.

 

[Daffa]

Now, since we've explored some theme options, I would like to know - how soon would people like the next contest to be? We could put something up right away, but if people need a bit of a breather in between rounds we can certainly delay it a bit.

I'd say once the mini-mapping contest is over at earliest.

 

[Wazzz]

I'd say once the mini-mapping contest is over at earliest.

Just checked, that would be at the end of this month or the start of next month, so got a while off then

If anybody wants an earlier one, I suppose we could also theoretically cram in a "mini race" contest with a much shorter time frame so that it lines up nicely with the mini-mapping contest.

 

[Linaze]

I'd say once the mini-mapping contest is over at earliest.

Probably this, there's no need to rush. October and its shitty weather would likely make for a good contest period.

 

[SgtWinter]

Yeah, lets wait till the mini-mapping contest is over.

 

[Daffa]

If anybody wants an earlier one, I suppose we could also theoretically cram in a "mini race" contest with a much shorter time frame so that it lines up nicely with the mini-mapping contest.

Wouldn't that mean a mini-race would occupy the judge and be a problem for the actual techtree contest?

I'd say the gap time can be useful while we sink our heads on a specific theme.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Checking in.

So what we were discussing on the discord was sort of meta, in the sense that it was a discussion about themes in general more so than discussing potential themes (although we did that as well).

For me themes can be a vast array of different things, depending on what you want to "achieve" with it:

• A theme can be a limitation in how a race is designed/created, such as no or limited imports or a maximum number of units/structures/heroes. I guess in a sense this is kind of a "mechanical" theme and is not very, for lack of a better word, "thematic". Restrictions can be frustrating, but they can also encourage creative workarounds.
• Another way to approach themes is too look at them more as general/vague concepts than something very concrete. I think themes like Magic, Darkness and the aforementioned Faith would fall under this category. Because of the vagueness of these themes, most anything could qualify with a decent enough justification. In the case of a hypothetical "Magic" theme, anything from a Dalaran race to a race that just generally emphasizes magic damage would be thematically fine.
• Last category (that I thought up, I am sure there are more, mind) would be the more narrow themes that encapsulates a specific idea/concept and forces each contestant to work around that. Examples could be Elementals, make-a-creep-race or make a derivative of an existing race's sub-race (elves, dwarves, trolls etc). I would say it's a bit more expected here what the contestants are going to produce, for better or for worse.

[/walloftext]

I'm a huge fan of this kind of meta-discussion, and I think it's really important to have.

If I may, I submit that what you are describing really falls into two categories: "Mechanical Limitations" & "Thematic Limitations" (or "Functional" & "Form-al", if you will ; ) The dichotomy between the two is sort of like "top-down" & "bottom-up" design Example article).

Both of them can be used in the same Contest (e.g. "design a faction for a certain Biome" (Thematic), & "design a faction with a Super-Unit" (Mechanical).

 

[WolfFarkas]

Considering "Faith" as theme:

Just some random "Faith" ideas of some other games: maybe for a MGT type where you chosee 1 of the 7-8 options. like choose your biome. or just maybe can be a small source of inspiration for "faith concepts".

skyrim

• Akatosh - The Dragon God of Time.
• Arkay - The God of Life and Death.
• Julianos - The God of Wisdom and Logic.
• Kynareth - The Goddess of Air.
• Zenithar - The God of Work and Commerce (God of Trade)

Icewind Dale

Cavaliers: This class represents the most common image of the knight: the chivalrous warrior who epitomizes honor, courage, and loyalty.
Inquisitors: The Inquisitor has dedicated their life to finding and eliminating practitioners of evil magic and defeating the forces of darkness.
Kensai: This class’s name, which means “sword saint” in the common tongue, refers to a warrior who has been specially trained to be one with their weapon.
Avenger: A member of a special druidic order, the Avenger is dedicated to fighting those who would defile nature.
Priest of helm: Followers of Helm, the neutral god of watchers and protectors, are warriors in their own right and are often seen as defenders of the innocent.
Priest of Lathander: the good god of renewal, creativity, and youth,. His followers are very popular throughout the Realms, and there are numerous wealthy temples devoted to him.
Priest of Talos: Talos is the evil god of storms, destruction, and rebellion. Clerics of the Stormlord warn that Talos must be appeased or he will rain destruction upon the land.
Priest of Tempus: Tempus, also known as the Lord of Battles or the Foehammer, is random in his favors, yet his chaotic nature favors all sides equally. Lord Tempus may be on an army’s side one day and against them the next; such is the nature of war. Tempuran clergy can be found on both sides of a conflict, as none can ever truly know whom the war god will favor.
Priest of Tyr: Tyr is the deity of law and justice and is primarily concerned with the punishment of wrongdoers and the general furthering of law and good in the world. The belief in justice through (benevolent) force, or at least armed vigilance
Dragon Disciple: Dragon Disciples are powerful Sorcerers with dragon blood somewhere in their lineage. Their draconic heritage is evident in their magical talents, allowing them to cast powerful spells and exhibit dragon-like abilities.

Pillars of eternity

Monks: Monks belong to a variety of fighting orders. They are diciplined, unpredictible, individualist, trained to resist suffering.
Chanter: they are the most ancient workers of magic, their hallowed phrases stirring the collective memory of wayward souls around them, compelling them to generate magical effects in a kind of "reenactment." In some societies, chanters form organized groups of storytellers and researchers, but in most parts of the world they are just a time-honored part of local folk traditions.
Cipher: ("mind hunters"). Ciphers have the ability to directly contact and manipulate another person's soul and psyche, using an ally's or enemy's essence as the focus for their magic. They are gaining acceptance over time, but are generally distrusted,
Paladin: Paladins are martial zealots, devoted to a god, a ruler, or even a way of life. They can be found in any culture where a fanatical group of like-minded individuals have formed a warrior society dedicated to advancing their cause. Many paladins hold leadership positions in armies and mercenary companies
Druid: druids tap into the spiritual power that flows through the simple living things: plants, animals, and sometimes even living stone. they have a reverence for the natural world and a keen interest in understanding its mysteries. In most cultures, druids are understood as a sort of primal magician, but among many rural cultures, they may have high positions of influence and authority.
Priest: Priests are devotees of deities and practitioners of religious magic. While all priests dedicate themselves to specific gods, priests' power is actually derived from their personal beliefs. In contrast to most paladins, priests tend to focus on philosophy, teaching, and the relationship of religious organizations with common folk.

 

[Wazzz]

Considering "Faith" as theme:

Just some random "Faith" ideas of some other games: maybe for a MGT type where you chosee 1 of the 7-8 options. like choose your biome. or just maybe can be a small source of inspiration for "faith concepts".

skyrim

• Akatosh - The Dragon God of Time.
• Arkay - The God of Life and Death.
• Julianos - The God of Wisdom and Logic.
• Kynareth - The Goddess of Air.
• Zenithar - The God of Work and Commerce (God of Trade)

Icewind Dale

Cavaliers: This class represents the most common image of the knight: the chivalrous warrior who epitomizes honor, courage, and loyalty.
Inquisitors: The Inquisitor has dedicated their life to finding and eliminating practitioners of evil magic and defeating the forces of darkness.
Kensai: This class’s name, which means “sword saint” in the common tongue, refers to a warrior who has been specially trained to be one with their weapon.
Avenger: A member of a special druidic order, the Avenger is dedicated to fighting those who would defile nature.
Priest of helm: Followers of Helm, the neutral god of watchers and protectors, are warriors in their own right and are often seen as defenders of the innocent.
Priest of Lathander: the good god of renewal, creativity, and youth,. His followers are very popular throughout the Realms, and there are numerous wealthy temples devoted to him.
Priest of Talos: Talos is the evil god of storms, destruction, and rebellion. Clerics of the Stormlord warn that Talos must be appeased or he will rain destruction upon the land.
Priest of Tempus: Tempus, also known as the Lord of Battles or the Foehammer, is random in his favors, yet his chaotic nature favors all sides equally. Lord Tempus may be on an army’s side one day and against them the next; such is the nature of war. Tempuran clergy can be found on both sides of a conflict, as none can ever truly know whom the war god will favor.
Priest of Tyr: Tyr is the deity of law and justice and is primarily concerned with the punishment of wrongdoers and the general furthering of law and good in the world. The belief in justice through (benevolent) force, or at least armed vigilance
Dragon Disciple: Dragon Disciples are powerful Sorcerers with dragon blood somewhere in their lineage. Their draconic heritage is evident in their magical talents, allowing them to cast powerful spells and exhibit dragon-like abilities.

Pillars of eternity

Monks: Monks belong to a variety of fighting orders. They are diciplined, unpredictible, individualist, trained to resist suffering.
Chanter: they are the most ancient workers of magic, their hallowed phrases stirring the collective memory of wayward souls around them, compelling them to generate magical effects in a kind of "reenactment." In some societies, chanters form organized groups of storytellers and researchers, but in most parts of the world they are just a time-honored part of local folk traditions.
Cipher: ("mind hunters"). Ciphers have the ability to directly contact and manipulate another person's soul and psyche, using an ally's or enemy's essence as the focus for their magic. They are gaining acceptance over time, but are generally distrusted,
Paladin: Paladins are martial zealots, devoted to a god, a ruler, or even a way of life. They can be found in any culture where a fanatical group of like-minded individuals have formed a warrior society dedicated to advancing their cause. Many paladins hold leadership positions in armies and mercenary companies
Druid: druids tap into the spiritual power that flows through the simple living things: plants, animals, and sometimes even living stone. they have a reverence for the natural world and a keen interest in understanding its mysteries. In most cultures, druids are understood as a sort of primal magician, but among many rural cultures, they may have high positions of influence and authority.
Priest: Priests are devotees of deities and practitioners of religious magic. While all priests dedicate themselves to specific gods, priests' power is actually derived from their personal beliefs. In contrast to most paladins, priests tend to focus on philosophy, teaching, and the relationship of religious organizations with common folk.

Completely unrelated note (from myself, that is), but I have found myself playing Pillars Of Eternity not too long ago - should really continue that run. Icewind Dale's also a classic one, very nice games

 

[WolfFarkas]

Completely unrelated note (from myself, that is), but I have found myself playing Pillars Of Eternity not too long ago - should really continue that run. Icewind Dale's also a classic one, very nice games

it is nice that those games have a lot of lore. and tons of things to do. Pillars of eternity is like read books, touch all those souls to read their history

on topic, it would be very atractive to have (whatever the theme is) like the 13 contest coloured.

the posibility to choose, and also be restrained, is very atractive , is like start a game choose your class, start a tech tree choose 1 of the 5 faith options to design.
alsp the icons are very eyecandies to pick participants.

 

[Daffa]

When it comes to Faith, Dark Souls might be of an interesting one to look too.

Oh, and Danganronpa Soldiers of Hope and Remnant of Despair might be interesting concepts too.

 

[Leods]

And what about making techtrees with the forgotten factions of races of wc?
Like void elves, mag'har orcs, and technically every allied race of the retail WoW

 

[Cherrymage]

I think I'd prefer "Light has Left" and "Creep Resurgence"

It's always interesting to imagine former devouts losing their faith and growing gritter and grimmer... >: )

I think I'll also look forward to see how people can come up with ideas for Creep Resurgence, too