Techtree Contest #14 Theme Ideas

[Wazzz]

Hello Techtree Contest enthusiasts. With the belated judgment coming for the previous Techtree Contest courtesy of our substitute judge, I think it may be time to discuss the potential for yet another Techtree Contest. One catch, however, is that we need to come up with a theme - with that, I would like to open the floor for discussion.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Design the best Techtree Designer Techtree!

A whole faction based on a designer of Techtrees.

; )

 

[Wazzz]

Trippy... I'd like to hear more of this

Some potential ideas I have so far include:
Doctrine Theme - a selected doctrine/playstyle is chosen as the theme, and contestants try to make their techtree adhere to that playstyle to the best of their abilities
Generation Gap Theme - choose an age or "epoch" to design your faction around
Science Fiction Theme - just make a science fiction faction i dunno

 

[Leods]

I like the sci-fi and the generation ones. I think the generation idea is easier to imagine, maybe the sci-fi one will derive into repetitive techtrees (or maybe not).

 

[Yours Truly]

Needs more elaboration. They're kinda vague right now.

 

[Wazzz]

they're not really all that elaborative at present, it's just an ideas pitch thing where people can expand on some existing ideas, or they can share their own

 

[islesofurth]

How about a "meta" theme similar to the MTG theme we just did.

Where you craft your own "meta" phrase and then design your techtree around it.

example:

To break the META
To be the META
To enhance the META
To create a new META


Hopefully you get my point

 

[Wazzz]

Oh, so sort of like if you choose a "break the meta" theme, you would try to create a design that redefines how the game is played, whereas if you choose to "be the meta" you would try and create something that abides within the existing meta game of warcraft 3, so to speak?

 

[Pyrogasm]

"Break", "be", and "create" are kinda the same thing.... If your intent is to shake up how wc3 is usually played, then I think balancing your techtree wrt normal Wc3 races and judging it based on viability become very difficult.

Evolution: Create a techtree that grows from a single unit or a single building.

Workers as Fighters: Create a techtree where the basic worker units are relevant in combat. (Human Militia and Undead Ghouls are kinda in this direction, but not enough)

Pacifist: Create a race that intends to win the match without directly engaging in combat. (Charming, redirecting, out-economy-ing, idk)

Blight Redux: Create a race that incorporates a terrain/area-centric mechanic similar to Undead + Blight.

Additional Resource: Create a race that uses an additional nonstandard resource for its production/combat/construction/whatever.

 

[Yours Truly]

"Break", "be", and "create" are kinda the same thing....

"Break" and "Create" are total opposites though. Unless you mean, say, breaking a building, thus creating rubble and ruins.

 

[Wazzz]

I think Evolution was a previous contest theme, but it was a pretty dang interesting one that could be used again.

Certainly a lot of interesting ideas, and my god... a pacifist theme? Intriguing ploy... certainly a lot of interesting ideas to be had.

I think I see what's meant by Break, Be and Create being the same thing - in the given context, it is. If you "break" the meta, you are "creating" a new meta, and in some sense therefore "being" the meta - however I think "be" the meta gears more towards being the previously established meta rather than creating a new one.

 

[Pyrogasm]

"Break" the meta by doings something different. "Create" a new meta based on criteria you bring. The same.

I think I see what's meant by Break, Be and Create being the same thing - in the given context, it is. If you "break" the meta, you are "creating" a new meta, and in some sense therefore "being" the meta

That's what I meant.

• Only ranged or only melee: a race with only the chosen attack type available.
• Early Uber: A race that has access to its T3 signature unit (Frost Wyrms for ex) early in the game, but is still balanced.
• Manaless: A race without mana.
• Air Superiority: A race that is superior in the air, whatever that means.
• Garrison: A race where at least 3 buildings can have units garrisoned inside them, providing some effect.
• No lumber: A race that doesn't use lumber
• Buildings only: A race that consists only of buildings and a worker unit
• Horde/Swarm: Units build quickly and no units can have more than X total HP.
• Undeath: A race where a unit dying doesn't mean it's permanently unusable.

 

[islesofurth]

Oh, so sort of like if you choose a "break the meta" theme, you would try to create a design that redefines how the game is played, whereas if you choose to "be the meta" you would try and create something that abides within the existing meta game of warcraft 3, so to speak?

ya basically.

I got this idea when playing an online game of Mythology & realised how everyone plays almost the same race because it gets early air & strong ranged.

 

[Wazzz]

How would buildings only work? I'm really intrigued by that idea, and wondering what limitations it would include. For instance, would summoned units be allowed?

 

[islesofurth]

"Break" the meta by doings something different. "Create" a new meta based on criteria you bring. The same.

That's what I meant.

• Only ranged or only melee: a race with only the chosen attack type available.
• Early Uber: A race that has access to its T3 signature unit (Frost Wyrms for ex) early in the game, but is still balanced.
• Manaless: A race without mana.
• Air Superiority: A race that is superior in the air, whatever that means.
• Garrison: A race where at least 3 buildings can have units garrisoned inside them, providing some effect.
• No lumber: A race that doesn't use lumber
• Buildings only: A race that consists only of buildings and a worker unit
• Horde/Swarm: Units build quickly and no units can have more than X total HP.
• Undeath: A race where a unit dying doesn't mean it's permanently unusable.
  

What if we had to include like 3 of these into our race

 

[Pyrogasm]

Some are much more restrictive than others. I was hoping to stir the creative juices by throwing a bunch of ideas out there.

 

[Yours Truly]

Oh please, we already had an Evolution contest 2 years ago. Can't we try something else?

 

[Wazzz]

That was just one of the suggestions, but I totally agree - better to explore a different theme, I think
I must admit, a part of me is actually really intrigued by the Buildings Only idea...

 

[Yours Truly]

How about a regional/biome/environment theme? Pick something like tundra/desert/jungle and create a race based on the region that you picked.

 

[Wazzz]

That's another pretty great idea, there's certainly a lot of potential choices for that

 

[Kyrbi0]

For the record (maybe I oughta make this my signature...), I would submit there should be no problem using a previously-used Contest Theme. Not everything as to be new or novel to be cool. I don't understand the ingrained sense of 'wrongness' to redoing something.

Serious Submission: (and despite what I said above, I don't expect it to happen immediately after the last one, but) Magic: the Gathering Color Pie. However this time instead of annoyingly restrictive Mono-Color factions, everyone can pick one of the ten (10) Duo-Color factions & design a race around that! This one will be very cool, if you take a look at what can be done with philosophical allies & enemies (see Ravnica).

Oh please, we already had an Evolution contest [...] Can't we try something else?

How about a regional/biome/environment theme? Pick something like tundra/desert/jungle and create a race based on the region that you picked.

Techtree Contest #9 - Biome

mfw

 

[Wazzz]

oh snap, good catch

duo-colors would be very interesting

also...
what if, instead of Biome, we went to Planets?
choose a planet and make a faction around that

 

[Duke]

What about seven deadly sins. You could have wrath faction that just goes all out or gluttony faction thats based on devouring stuff. Has plenty room for interpretation.

 

[Yours Truly]

Techtree Contest #9 - Biome

mfw

Hey man, that ain't fair. I wasn't even around that time

What about seven deadly sins. You could have wrath faction that just goes all out or gluttony faction thats based on devouring stuff. Has plenty room for interpretation.

This one sounds legit. I vote for that.

 

[Wazzz]

Seven Deadly Sins sounds like a great idea.

I also like the idea of an expansion of the Biome concept to Planets, where you take a planet and create a faction themed around it. It can also include former planets like Pluto so you can go a super ice themed faction or you can choose Jupiter for some giants or whatever. Lots of possibilities there, too.

Looks like we have some real potential with the ideas so far.

 

[Heinvers]

Seven Deadly Sins and Planet Biome sound good to me so far.

Keep shooting with ideas guys :]

 

[Wazzz]

If we did Planet Biome I think I'd totally want to do Mars

Hell yeah

 

[Kyrbi0]

Hey man, that ain't fair. I wasn't even around that time

Well, now you know! : )

 

[Spellbound]

Well, here are are some ideas:

Growing Base: you begin with only 1 building and can only build by branching out with different structures. Every building has to be interconnected with the main building in some way.
Reforged: since Reforged is releasing in, like, 2 weeks, the next theme could be to remake one of the vanilla factions while maintaining their core identify. Not the most inspired, I suppose, but could be interesting.
Unfamiliar: in a similar vein to the above proposition, take one of the vanilla factions and alter their core identity. Eg: Orcs are now a society of mages; the Night Elves worship the Light and the Naaru; Dwarven society is deeply enmeshed with the Void and every aspect of their lives is touched by it; etc...

 

[Wazzz]

The Reforged idea sounds similar in concept to a previous contest from long ago, where contestants reimagined one of the existing factions, which is an awesome theme that gets back to basics

Definitely some interesting ideas, I also still have a fondness of the Structures Only challenge, sounds downright tricky on so many levels

EDIT: New theme idea, inspired by Reforged's eminent release - Cliche Theme. Take one of the Campaign races and flesh them out. In either Reforged or Original, should be a fun theme to play around with, be it Corrupted Night Elves, Chaos Orcs, High Elves, etc.

 

[WolfFarkas]

The most models and icons that you can find in this site are Blood/ High Elf types:

how about an Elf Factions Techtree Contest, each faction will have some explaining text in similar way as the magic the gathering tech tree contest (black, white, fire , blue, green, where players could choose 1 option) and similar to Total war games:
Blood elf

as example

1) Magisters: order of magic. Ofensive magic
Advantages: magic use frost, fire and air/wind, air mages, magic towers, intelligent and strong heroes, boost economy,
Disadvantages: lack powerfull melee, lacks powerfull damage towers, lacks powerfull items.

2) Farstriders: order of scouts and assassins. Offensive melee
Advantages: magic use poison, nature and earth/rocks, intelligent and agility heroes, powerfull siege engines, land ranged, stealth and hide skills
Disadvantages: lacks powerfull mages, lacks powerfull healing, lacks powerfull hp melee

3) Blood Knigths: order of melee and chivalry. Defensive melee
Advantages: magic use blood, holy, spirit. powerfull melee, powerfull buildings hp, strong and agility heroes, healing
Disadvantages: lacks powerfull siege engines, magic, air,

4) Sunreavers: order of magic. Defensive magic
Advantages: magic use time,holy, arcane, intelligent and agility heroes, good all round, powerfull expensive farms like +25 food. healing towers.
Disadvantages: lacks profesional armies.

5) Scryers: order of outland melee. Offensive melee.
Advantages: magic use cosmic/astral, fel, shadow, intelligent and agility heroes, air, melee
Disadvantages:land ranged units, offensive towers, healing, magic

6) Firewings: Defensive magic
Advantages: magic use fire, nature and metal. superweapon building. good all round, strong and intelligent heroes
Disadvantages: lacks powerfull air, lacks powerfull items.

7) Dawnblades: order of magic: Offensive magic
Advantages: magic use shadow, thunder, water, aura towers,powerfull items, intelligent and agility heroes. mages are good in melee like HU spellbreaker.
Disadvantages: lacks powerfull melee and siege.

8) Sunhawks: order of melee. Defensive melee
Advantages: magic use cosmic/astral, fire, holy, strong and intelligent heroes, powerfull air, powerfull towers, powerfull melee. can build walls.
Disadvantages: lacks powerfull magics, land ranged, siege and items.

(other factions if needed Crimson Hand, Eclipsion, Shadowswords)

notes:
1) Since it was mentioned a building focus, one or two of the factions can have building advantages, healing towers, aura towers,towers that spawn units, superweapon buildings, walls, super farms or farms that can be improved.
2) My idea is very similar to the duo-color of magic the gathering, but instead of "colors" "elf factions" and or the color can go as magic spells afinity (water, nature, shadow, holy...) or racial advantages,
3) Have all elf factions, will help to reduce the a)racial taste judging/voting, (I dislike murlocks, I like night elfs) and b)lack of models and icons ( centaur race to much presets used) and focus on execution quality and balance.
4) the offensive magic, defensive melee, that stuff is = a doctrine mentioned before.
5) is like a spin around the meta, but balanced with the 4 pre-existant races.

 

[Kyrbi0]

I hate Blood Elves but this is the best idea yet because it wholeheartedly embraces this nightmarish reality:

The most models and icons that you can find in this site are Blood/ High Elf types:

 

[Wazzz]

I dunno, there's a lot of Undead models and icons, aren't there? Then again my brain may be protecting me by not processing the gratuitous amount of Blood Elf / High Elf models and icons. They have all these and not one Unicorn model? That's just downright heretical.

 

[WolfFarkas]

I hate Blood Elves but this is the best idea yet because it wholeheartedly embraces this nightmarish reality:

exactly, thanks, I like NE more,
WhenI was in the Magic color contest, I was NE Green, lack NE buildings, had to use campaign shipyard.another user was NE too, we used same air unit,

 

[Kyrbi0]

They have all these and not one Unicorn model? That's just downright heretical.

 

[Wazzz]

Planets is just biomes with planets as the terrain types tho

 

[WolfFarkas]

Planets is just biomes with planets as the terrain types tho

ah, ok, so planets biomes is the same thing then. I didnt get it.

 

[Wazzz]

Yeah, it's just instead of looking at a terrain type, you look at a planet and consider the theme of the planet, which opens things to interpretation but ultimately gives people leniency with what kind of faction they decide to do for their entry.

 

[WolfFarkas]

Yeah, it's just instead of looking at a terrain type, you look at a planet and consider the theme of the planet, which opens things to interpretation but ultimately gives people leniency with what kind of faction they decide to do for their entry.

type of planets?

real planets: earth, mars, neptune, pluto, mercury?

or

fictional starcraft: Char, Aiur, Mar Sara, ?

or fictional star wars: Naboo, Mustafar, Coruscant...?

fictional whatever: Gaia, Gamilon, Arrakis, Andromeda, Centaury, ?

 

[Wazzz]

the real planets in the Solar System, probably best to clarify that as the concept

and it will even include Pluto although technically that isn't a planet, it's still got a nice enough theme to it that it can be used

if you really wanted to stretch it, it could potentially include moons of planets, like Phobos and Titan, buuuuuuut those might just be better as sources of inspiration for what you can do with an actual planet's theme rather than being the actual theme itself

 

[WolfFarkas]

the real planets in the Solar System, probably best to clarify that as the concept

and it will even include Pluto although technically that isn't a planet, it's still got a nice enough theme to it that it can be used

if you really wanted to stretch it, it could potentially include moons of planets, like Phobos and Titan, buuuuuuut those might just be better as sources of inspiration for what you can do with an actual planet's theme rather than being the actual theme itself

moons is interesting. it can give as you say, more inspiration options.

Hmm, basing a faction based on one of the planets of the solar system is actually a neat idea, although it might come off as too abstraction? Maybe something like... the Roman pantheon - create a faction based on one of the Roman gods? Like, a Venus faction would be all about subterfuge and bountiful economy, charming the enemy to fight for you, etc.

That being said, basing the faction on the planet itself could yield interesting results. A Venus faction could have a lot of toxic attacks, high number of volatile firebrands and the power to summon strong winds.

very interesting idea indeed, I like it.

I remembered a game Golden Sun.

Venus was earth element.
Mars was fire element.
Mercury was water element.
Jupiter was wind element.

 

[Spellbound]

Hmm, basing a faction based on one of the planets of the solar system is actually a neat idea, although it might come off as too abstraction? Maybe something like... the Roman pantheon - create a faction based on one of the Roman gods? Like, a Venus faction would be all about subterfuge and bountiful economy, charming the enemy to fight for you, etc.

That being said, basing the faction on the planet itself could yield interesting results. A Venus faction could have a lot of toxic attacks, high number of volatile firebrands and the power to summon strong winds.

 

[Wazzz]

Yeah, that's what I like about the Planet theme, sort of lets you get a bit abstract with it while attempting to present a faction that really represents the planet as a whole.

Like, Venus could totally be Amazons using a lot of bio weapons, or Pluto could be a predominantly cryomancer faction, but then the way in which you tie it all together will also convey the overarching theme.

 

[islesofurth]

Yeah, that's what I like about the Planet theme, sort of lets you get a bit abstract with it while attempting to present a faction that really represents the planet as a whole.

Like, Venus could totally be Amazons using a lot of bio weapons, or Pluto could be a predominantly cryomancer faction, but then the way in which you tie it all together will also convey the overarching theme.

I don't see the point in doing a design contest based on real planets and not fictional ones when you are just making up fictional ways the planet could be used.
If this was the theme, a good portion of the score would definately need to go to how scientific acurate each race was for the planet they chose.

Your both thinking of toxic races when you think Venus, but such things would only combust anywhere near Venus. (how does that even make sense in a game)

 

[Spellbound]

I don't see the point in doing a design contest based on real planets and not fictional ones when you are just making up fictional ways the planet could be used.
If this was the theme, a good portion of the score would definately need to go to how scientific acurate each race was for the planet they chose.

I assume you mean that the contest will have a number of fictional planets for the participants to chose from?

Your both thinking of toxic races when you think Venus, but such things would only combust anywhere near Venus. (how does that even make sense in a game)

I was going at it from the perspective of "What if Venus was a faction?" instead of what faction could live on Venus. If anything can live on there, you'll probably be making a race of fire elementals and dragons or something. It's a neat idea, tbh. Worth considering imo.

NB: I did also mention volatile firebrands, which is vague enough to include things that could survive a 450C planet surface.

 

[Wazzz]

I mean, it's kind of the same as saying with the MTG theme from last contest that if we can make factions themed around these 5 colors, then why not purple or orange?

The inclusion of fictional planets would be kind of... redundant, and not really a theme. At that point, the theme would be "factions that can live".

When it comes to using the themes, it's really only limited by the creativity of the contestant. If you take one of the Solar System planets, you would take into consideration the kind of vibe you get from the planet, and sort of go from there. Like someone might take Venus and get the vibe of things that grow rampantly, biological warfare, or things like that. Sure, in reality, life couldn't live on these planets, but if we made the contest theme "Solar System Planets (that support life)" we'd pretty much be limited to Earth and probably Mars.

 

[Spellbound]

Another theme idea:

Army Shuffle: re-cast the units of an existing faction and change their tier and/or role entirely while maintaining the general feel of what the unit is. What if the Alliance built their base using some sort of thunder magic cast from the back of a Gryphon, and the Peasant was some sort of engineer that built trebuchets to siege enemy bases? Get creative!

 

[WolfFarkas]

Idea : Dual Develop: design a tech tree in such way that allows you to choose 2 mutual-exclusive upgrades for your main hall that will grant you new unique units, skills and technology.

Age of mythology upgrade mechanichs.

that means Townhall -------- Upgrade to A) Fire and gain firemage and fire arrows or B) Frost and gain frost archer and frost armor.

I think this idea has a lot of potential!!!

 

[Wazzz]

Another theme idea:

Army Shuffle: re-cast the units of an existing faction and change their tier and/or role entirely while maintaining the general feel of what the unit is. What if the Alliance built their base using some sort of thunder magic cast from the back of a Gryphon, and the Peasant was some sort of engineer that built trebuchets to siege enemy bases? Get creative!

Interesting... so the Footman could end up as a T2 Siege Unit, the Siege Tank could be your T1.5 Ranged Unit and the Rifleman could be a T3 Ranged Specialist, for instance? That could get very creative.

 

[WolfFarkas]

Interesting... so the Footman could end up as a T2 Siege Unit, the Siege Tank could be your T1.5 Ranged Unit and the Rifleman could be a T3 Ranged Specialist, for instance? That could get very creative.

It feels like the Techtree contest number 1 and 6 "NO IMPORTS",
Techtree Contest #6 - No Imports!
Techtree Contest #1



I mean you will be forced to use the footman, the siege tank, the rifleman presets models, that feels (no offence) boring, when you want to create a new race you want to avoid use preset models unless you dont have other choise (dwarven race, keep the mortar and rifleman) but here seems very no-atractive.

one of the most fun parts of doing altered is to download the new models of the units, seriusly this really kills the fun part (write unit description is the boring part)

and seriusly again, how many options there will be if 2 participants go Human, I dont think there are so many shuffle options unlesss you fall in nonsence like have the rifleman as T3 melee.

also remember something: the new faction must be balanced with the pre-existant 4, you cant have the same model in the battlefield with different roles, thats confusing.
Imagine when there are beta-testing, a HU vs the new HU, it will be confusing.

Planets idea is much better... IMO


and the dual develop? mythology idea? if is a crap idea at least say it so it can be discarted.

But to me the age of mythology idea is perfect, it was one of the best RTS games, and was so great that had 1 expansion, and a second expansion plus graphics remastered in 2016.
Age of empires 3 has the same townhall upgrade mechanichs, but in mythology is better.
mythology gives new unique units and upgrades
age 3 gives units and resources, like receive 5 knights, 9 archers or 600 food.