Tales Of Old Warcraft 0.3c

[Moderator]

Vengeancekael -
Date: 2012/May/27 11:50:55

Reasons:
Other:
Check out the tutorials section: Tutorials
Check out the Map Development Section: Map Development Section
Check out the World Editor Help Zone (Trigger issues, object editor, overall WE issues): WE Help Zone

Comment: [Approved]
View review by user Orcnet
Admin Contact - Resource Moderation - Rules

 

[Tigrick]

Promotion: Sequel

features:
- almost limitless unit selection
- new units, abilities, structures, and upgrades
- doctrine system, giving a themed thematic focus to each race
- many unique models that can only be found in this map
- AI included

 

[sonofjay]

Dafaq? 11mb? its not playable on lan, battle.net and garena.

I'll download it to take a look the culprit

EDIT:

I found the culprit!!!

You have
*1 2mb sound
*1 440 kb sound
and....



*1 21 mb sound

 

[Tigrick]

I'll take care of it.

 

[sonofjay]

just remove them, then I'm sure the filesize will go down to 1 or 2 mb

 

[Masokist91]

Review :
Gameplay : not bad but can be better , kinda tactic but lacks diversity and lacks kinda everything in manner of teck-trees etc ... i suggest somethings here for you btw try to give every race a custom general ability for example orcs - ability name - madness ( when 30% below make him frenzy attack wich will make him lose 5 armor but in exchange 90% attack speed and 20% ms ) this is just an example i think you got the ideea . Animation of units are really boring make them a little bigger ... most of the people wont like to hardly see their units hp well gameplay can be very good but lacks diversity and lacks some more commands . and for spells try to give every tipe of unit like 2 passives and 1 active it will make the game very interesting . 3/5
Ideea : the ideea is good and you kinda trown it good in world editor but you forgot about somethings some are mechanics some are aestethical for example the human main building the barracks just look ugly on that kind of terrain and i really mean very ugly better use some brownish castle etc . 4/5
Fun factor : not too much you just have to spawn units and stuff no unobvious tactics no nothing you should make it a little more complex but understandable by players . by the other hand i like the battle thing where group of units beat other groups of units and so on . 3/5
Terrain : terrain is kinda good the blacksmiths and lumber mill kinda sucks on the map i suggest the only buildings should be built by players where they want and how they want them ... and diverse the terrain like make cliffs shores marshlands swamps etc but all understandable and no blocking pathers and stuff like that no use for that they suck badly so anyway . anyway terrain is good 4/5 for the effort i expect some remake of this map terrain.
Suggestions : aesthical problems like unfiting things in unfiting places , mechanics are good but not optimized to this tipe of map , the effort you putted in the map was huge i think etc ... nevertheless ill give you one piece of advice and you will understand the rest ... and the suggestion is this - Every unit is important ! make every unit special understandable complex and beatifull ( i can help you with this if you want ) .

Overall opinion : good mechanics but not fitten well ... good terrain but plain and just the same bullshit everywhere ... and not even simetrical ... unit ideea and logic is good and well made i like that but can be done better with some object editor review ... can be a very good map with some work to make everything special ... the rating for now is 3.5/5 !

Have a good day and happy map making !

 

[Tigrick]

I updated. Map is 3.7 MB now. Should be playable in multiplayer. Did some minor changes to the map (I attached a chagelog to post #1)

@Masokist91: thanks for the review. I did some of the changes you suggested. Might do more in the future.

 

[Tigrick]

feedback would be cool so i know what to change for the next version

 

[Wazzz]

judging from screenies, it looks like you have a good gothic atmosphere going which is one reason people liked the original Warcraft 1 so much.

also i notice the health values are incredibly low, indicating that you have some fast paced combat, or at least reasoned that high values of health aren't a necessity beyond being aesthetically pleasing when you have the damage values scaled accordingly.

mind you, such health values are typically used in turn-based strategies where it's a little nicer visually, i suppose, but it's good to see it's not just turn-based strategies that can implement this style of values.

as for the gameplay, i have yet to check it out, although i can't help but notice already that, for example, the humans have an axeman AND a footman as well as a leader, and i'm wondering what is the strategic difference between the axeman and the footman primarily, as the role of the 'leader' unit is somewhat predictable.

also be careful of that double post, a 'bump' requires a 48 hour gap i believe, and you only have a 24 hour gap

 

[Tigrick]

(...) as for the gameplay, i have yet to check it out, although i can't help but notice already that, for example, the humans have an axeman AND a footman as well as a leader, and i'm wondering what is the strategic difference between the axeman and the footman primarily, as the role of the 'leader' unit is somewhat predictable.

spearthrowers have the ability to switch weapons making them fight with an axe which they should only do if enemy meele units get to close; the captain is not a leader unit. Footmen get promoted to captain when they survive battle. Its simply a footman with additional armour and different model. Only orcs have leaders.

also be careful of that double post, a 'bump' requires a 48 hour gap i believe, and you only have a 24 hour gap

Sorry didn't know that - won't happen again

 

[Orcnet]

Tales of Old Warcraft (Version 0.2d)

Rating System:

Rate	Score	Percent	Letter
	5/5	91-100	A

Rate	Score	Percent	Letter
	4/5	81-90%	B

Rate	Score	Percent	Letter
	3/5	75-80%	C

Rate	Score	Percent	Letter
	2/5	70-74%	D

Rate	Score	Percent	Letter
	1/5	50-69%	F

Overview:

Gameplay

Tales of Warcraft is an altered melee that is more on force control and offense rather than building tons of structures and harvesting resources. Due to the alteration, ToW has 6 races to be played, Humans prefer the trading mechanism in order to quickly purchase troops in battle, Dwarves rely on slow siege tanks but gains heavy dealing damages, Elves acquires magic in winning, Orcs gains speed bonuses to track down enemy lines or bases, Trolls are the only race who bares an invisible structure to use as scouts or strategic maneuvers, and finally, Undeads command summoning unit abilities. Game ends when an enemy main base is destroyed

"I appreciate on how much work you have done to build such a game where you balance all races and focus on only the units to win but sadly, some units(that I can't remember all the names) doesn't do much during battles, such as attacking buildings, gather boxes, etc. but still, everything works well."

Terrain

"I'd say the design you made for the terrain is decent, either good or bad, I still prefer decent, the weather trigger, fogs and its surroundings actually blends itself during daytime and nightfall, but to enhance such details, I would suggest you add mountain walks that players can move in and gain upper ground attacks(such as the default wc3 setting were you gain attack and sight range in cliffs and attacking units in cliffs gives chances to miss), also water, remember the quote "control the water, and you control everything", not just how the quote would say but adding them as details is a must."

Management

"After a quick checkup for bugs and trigger errors, I notice during in the lobby, when you don't add players to the game, the AI would start automatically, else it does not, it somehow works like a confused loop. also pressing the restart button doesn't restart the game but instead quits and starts in the lobby, I also found out the text in the "Map Info" that says "Map Control: 100%". what does it mean? is there anything that explains it when I move a unit or dash in an event? it would be great if you can elaborate more user manuals in the Quest box instead of stuffing all of the credit list inside since it is practically useless and waste of size for the map, and lastly, refrain from using too much foreign languages except for special name tags for weapons, units, map area, etc. Use English for players to understand what is happening around the game."

Total Score:

Rate	Score	Percent	Letter
	10/15	83%	B

Status: APPROVED

 

[Tigrick]

@Orcnet: thanks for the review. reviews boost my motivation which is good, i guess...

(...) I also found out the text in the "Map Info" that says "Map Control: 100%". what does it mean? is there anything that explains it when I move a unit or dash in an event?

this is a relic of a game mechanic i once wanted to implement - but i never did so i will rather remove it or give purpose to it. Thx for the clue!

(...) and lastly, refrain from using too much foreign languages except for special name tags for weapons, units, map area, etc. Use English for players to understand what is happening around the game."[/i]

i didn't intend to have any foreign language ingame (only in WE some triggers and stuff that u never get to read ingame). If there is it's a bug. I definitely gotta check this!

 

[Gougougox]

I tested the map and i looked at how to gain ressources and it say "secure blacksmith for gold income", ok but where are those blacksmiths?

I don't know if I'm the only to have this problem, but look at it.

Without that the race, terrain and models are very good chosen so for me this is 4/5!

 

[BeatMySkill]

It's not ARMOUR, it's ARMOR

 

[Vengeancekael]

Armour is british(english) and is correct.

 

[Tigrick]

Armour is british(english) and is correct.

damn i just changed it

 

[Tigrick]

I tested the map and i looked at how to gain ressources and it say "secure blacksmith for gold income", ok but where are those blacksmiths? (...)

you get gold/lumber every 15 seconds - there were blacksmiths all over the map in an older version; in the current version you have a set income rate and there's no way of increasing it but i definitely gotta think of sth here...

(...) Without that the race, terrain and models are very good chosen so for me this is 4/5!

thanks!

Armour is british(english) and is correct.

i decided on british english because i thought it suited the medieval theme better - however i might go for american 'armor' if people dislike british 'armour' or get confused over it

 

[marko9]

Id like that you made the AI work but aniway this is awesome for 2vs2 fight +rep for ya!

 

[Cokemonkey11]

I just tested your map, and found it well made, but rather dull at the game-play level.

English issues - the game interface text for "Wood" is still in german. Default player names are "spieler<number>" which I think is german as well.

I thought there would be some AI in the map but there was not. I tested the map alone vs computer (normal) and it literally did nothing.

I don't know if all the races have similar levels of completeness, but the trolls were quite boring. There were 2 buildings available (main structure and hideout) and all the unit training is done in 1 building, no upgrades.

Basically this feels to me like a map where 2 players horde up an army of 40 units and then try and out-micro the other for a quick win. Normally in a map like this, the player with better macro-management wins the game because they can keep track of their unit production and keep it constantly moving, but in this game there is no incentive to look at your unit producing structure at all because:

1. Unit production happens instantly
2. Income is static
3. Catapults are ultra-slow

My suggestion would be to focus on one or two races to start, and do something like this:

• Separate unit producing structures from the main building. This will allow players to use tactics like hiding barracks, and building proxy/forward unit producing structures.
• Turn off the instant production of units as it hinders macro-management style gameplay.
• Make income "level off" at high numbers to incourage players to spend their gold constantly, rather than hoard it.

One last thing, I wasn't in love with the loading screen. Might I suggest "A loading screen that shows the progress bar for all players"? http://www.thehelper.net/threads/how-to-make-a-loading-screen.29652/

Good luck with your map, I will come look at it again if you make a major update. For now I'd vote to keep the map, with 3 *. +reps as well.

 

[Tigrick]

Id like that you made the AI work but aniway this is awesome for 2vs2 fight +rep for ya!

well thanks a lot... and you're right about the AI thing. now i don't know if you're aware there are trigger-based attacks when you single-play as Player Red but this system can't be compared to AI anyways and i'll defintely add real AI at some point

I just tested your map, and found it well made, but rather dull at the game-play level.

ok thanks for the 'well made' part... and yeah gameplay may need improvement. One thing i can tell u for sure is that i will add a more advanced ressource system.

English issues - the game interface text for "Wood" is still in german. Default player names are "spieler<number>" which I think is german as well.

thanks for being so precise! Now i can fix it. This style of comment is always wecome

Basically this feels to me like a map where 2 players horde up an army of 40 units and then try and out-micro the other for a quick win.

i tried to avoid quick win which is why all the starting units are rather useless against structures and basiclly only catapults and certain spells should be effective agaist any strucs. Also catapults are very slow and easy to counter (via Ballista, Spells) However i will check this and do my best to make quick win rather unlikely

One last thing, I wasn't in love with the loading screen. Might I suggest "A loading screen that shows the progress bar for all players"?

there's no reason not to do this so ok i'll change it. good suggestion btw

btw thanks for all of your suggestions i will consider them. oh and thx for rep. also i like your avatar picture it's probably the only normal picture around the hive



EDIT: Update coming soon (bringing some sort of AI whatsoever)

 

[wolfikun]

looks pretty cool it has its BAZINGA something Im looking for this is a good map Ima try it out hope its as good as it looks

 

[Tigrick]

looks pretty cool it has its BAZINGA something Im looking for this is a good map Ima try it out hope its as good as it looks

i just googled bazinga =)

 

[dk97]

nice game, 4/5
but can you create other modes like 4vs4 or FFA?

€: If you build an catapult with undead you are not the owner of the catapult.

 

[Tigrick]

nice game, 4/5
but can you create other modes like 4vs4 or FFA?

thx and i will think about it

€: If you build an catapult with undead you are not the owner of the catapult.

say whaaaat =)
ill look at it
thx for the clue

p.s. what's it with the euro symbol?


EDIT: catapult bug fixed. thx dk97!

 

[MogulKahn]

I think euro symbol is edit ! =D
Btw, this map looks great, too bad I dont have wc3 installed on my computer right now !
Great job mate !

 

[Tigrick]

@MogulKahn: thanks to you mister; dk97 already pm'd me bout that € symbol =)

ok so far it seems people like how the map looks but gameplay is not versatile enough - i wonder what i should go for: more units or more structures or more abilities? i cant do all at once or ill be dead within a month

 

[RiotZ]

This actually looks really cool.

 

[Tigrick]

This actually looks really cool.

Thanks RiotZ
and everybody stay tuned - im considering to actually add real techtrees for this to finally add some serious strategy (i found some AMAZING stucture models on the hive) - as always advice is welcome

btw ain't i nice replying to every single comment =)

 

[RiotZ]

I will download this, if anyone wants to test it with me, that'd be cool.

 

[Tigrick]

hello?
(echo: hello, hello, hello,...)

look at this place it's deserted

 

[Tridinar]

First of all, the elves could use more work, buildings, and catapults. It's like the map-creator didn't even try. The catapult will not attack buildings.

Elves are very uselss!



Secondly, the sound of the wind is very hard to stand. It's a bit annoying on the ears. Even if I play music in the background, it's still way to loud.

Suggestion: Maybe add a trigger like -windon and -windoff.

Thus far, I have only played with Elves and Humans.

 

[Tigrick]

First of all, which version of the map did you play? Normal download or the alteration with bases - cos if it is the latter you must know that it is VERY early stage (as i mentioned in post #1)

It's like the map-creator didn't even try.

you make me sooo sad...

The catapult will not attack buildings.

It's called minimum range! You probablly had them placed to close to the target. Seems like i got to re-add the 'to close' interface message...

(...)elves could use more work, buildings, and catapults.

Work? Okay. Buildings? This map is not about base building, sir, i'm sorry. Catapults? Elves don't need them; use fire mages' meteor ability in combination with mana stores that restore the mages' mana - they will be just as effective against structures as 'regular' catapults

Secondly, the sound of the wind is very hard to stand. It's a bit annoying on the ears. Even if I play music in the background, it's still way to loud.

i might remove wind, allright...

 

[Tridinar]

I really meant no offense to this. I'm sorry.

I was a little upset at first, because I really love Tower defense/maul maps. This is a cross between both RTS and Tower Defense. I absolutely love the concept. But, the execution was a little less than expected.

I will help where I can, if you're interested. Unfortunately, right now, I have five more weeks left before I get my Bachelor's degree. So, I am a bit busy. But, my wife and I love the concept, and once Battle.net is down for good, I would like to find a way to program it in either C++, C#, or Flash, and put it on an interactive website.

The Glave throwers were no where near the target. They still would not "Acquire" target. Not sure why. The human cat's did though. Maybe it's something to look into. You're doing great.

Again, I am sorry to make you sad. Maybe, my changing to a rating of 5 would help cheer you up. The fact that you responded so quickly, and was such a good sport about it, really made the map, and you the creator, excel at potential. Keep it up. I am looking forward to later releases. You're doing great!

 

[Tigrick]

I really meant no offense to this. I'm sorry.

It's okay man. Don't panic...

I was a little upset at first, because I really love Tower defense/maul maps.

this missunderstanding may also be my fault as i put so many categories when i uploaded the map, including tower defense - clearly this map is no tower defense map at all (factions have 1 tower at most)

i will correct my error with the next update.

This is a cross between both RTS and Tower Defense.

This is why i put so many categories - however, by doing so i fool people who search the maps section for specific categories such as 'tower defense' - and this is no tower defense at all. I want no misunderstandings to occur so i will take care of the categorie problem...

I will help where I can, if you're interested.

everybody is free to edit this map (see post #1) You can help me with advise, too. However, I have no time for extended team work via internet. Sorry.

(...)and once Battle.net is down for good, I would like to find a way to program it in either C++, C#, or Flash, and put it on an interactive website.

i don't know anything about these programms but you can do all of this if you want. I mean... it's the internet, you don't need to ask me. Come on =)

The Glave throwers were no where near the target. They still would not "Acquire" target.

By 'Glave throwers' you mean ballistas, right? Well, they only attack catapults (it says so in the unit tooltip and when you hover your mouse over their 'attack type' button in the interface) and yet again, their range is incredibly high and i set minimum range accordingly- However, i might remove all the minimum ranges from the game as this seems to cause to much confusion

Maybe, my changing to a rating of 5 would help cheer you up.

Yes... yes it does... =)

however, i gotta say your initial rating kind of motivated me to start mapping again. Before this i was just checking on my map, but i didn't intend to further work on it. Now i feel like trying some stuff, maybe adding some new concepts.

Thx man!


EDIT:
okay the next update is gonna bring a new race selection system which allows players to actually see all the different factions' units before they choose
also there will be a new game feature i call it 'global orders'; they allow players to control their entire army using their main building's global orders; of course some micro management like using spells etc. still will have to be done 'manually' (by clicking units etc.)

 

[dota66]

Armour is british(english) and is correct.

I AGREE

 

[MogulKahn]

Played it today, and I can say this map is good and original, but it needs a lot of balancing and a lot of units are similar !

 

[Tigrick]

i have figured out a way to make a street system like in Warcraft 1 (view corresponding screenshot in post #1)

consequently i will expand base building options in this game. The update should be in about 2 weeks


EDIT: the update will be delayed

 

[2013player]

Copied this map is created by Legal_Ease

 

[Tigrick]

Copied this map is created by Legal_Ease

wrong. He based his map on this one AND he has my permission. Ask him. Inform yourself next time, please.

 

[Legal_Ease]

Copied this map is created by Legal_Ease

LoL, no way. Look in the comments of my map. I admit to using Drogen's map as a base to start my map. He commented that I should give him credit. I apologized excessively and Drogen was gracious and has helped me incredibly since then. So no, he stole nothing from me. In fact it was the other way around. Hope that clears it up.

 

[Samaru]

This map is amazing. I looked at some races and until now it really started to give me that itch to play it with some friends. I already am thinking on some tactics that might be unfair:

-Using Orcs and spam their front line building. An endless stream of grunts.
-Spamming towers. Yes they cost much wood, but they do not have a limitation like food cost. (or so I think they do not have a limitation) Still if they build catapults I am forced to move out.
-Making a simple diversion and charging in with workers and create catapults on the spot to rush the town centre.
-If they are defensive (which they are) I will slowely blight the whole map with the necromancers. But hey... that would be their fault for letting me get so far.

Typing this even makes the itch worse XD thank you for the map. I WILL be enjoying this.

After playing:
-It was GREAT! My stratagies were not working at all. Playing against real people makes them counter my ideas. 2 mages can kill a spam of orcs. The towers can slowely be brought down. Charging with catapults is very risky. And necomancers are too expansive to spam. (however I managed to summon a Demon)
-The AI is not very intelligent. They just charge forewards. But it is enough to keep the pressure on the frontline. And a second player makeing the big moves.
-I could not find any base building apart from towers/reiforcement camps. I would like to see base building. But than it would not be the same as it is now... Maybe add gamemodes? Like arcade(now) and base building?
-Capturing windmills or sawmills does not seem to have any visual effect. So I don't know if it even does something. Maybe a counter that shows how many gold and lumber you get from which sources?

 

[Tigrick]

This map is amazing. I looked at some races and until now it really started to give me that itch to play it with some friends. I already am thinking on some tactics that might be unfair:

-Using Orcs and spam their front line building. An endless stream of grunts.
-Spamming towers. Yes they cost much wood, but they do not have a limitation like food cost. (or so I think they do not have a limitation) Still if they build catapults I am forced to move out.
-Making a simple diversion and charging in with workers and create catapults on the spot to rush the town centre.
-If they are defensive (which they are) I will slowely blight the whole map with the necromancers. But hey... that would be their fault for letting me get so far.

Typing this even makes the itch worse XD thank you for the map. I WILL be enjoying this.

Thank you for your nice words. This map hasn't been updated in a while so I thought I should reply just to show that I noted your comment.
I will keep what you said in mind and if I have time I will look into it (studies keeping me busy but I'll see what I can do )

 

[ardeshir021]

Nice Map I Realy Like It. It Was one of The Best Maps i Seen.
Gameplay is good. Units are Balanced.
If You can Change The Terrain a Little(its so dark and Hard to Look at It)
It Could Be Even Better Than Before
5/5

 

[Tigrick]

Nice Map I Realy Like It. It Was one of The Best Maps i Seen.
Gameplay is good. Units are Balanced.
If You can Change The Terrain a Little(its so dark and Hard to Look at It)
It Could Be Even Better Than Before
5/5

Thank you very much. I'm actually working on a ''sequel''. It will include an intuitive squad control system so you can basically select an infinite amount of units and it still looks and feels natural

You'll like it.


And yes, the terrain will be overhauled so it looks nicer


I will try to remember to tell you when it's released.



Thanks and + rep ツ

 

[Tigrick]

Alright, the sequel is here.

Also see post #1 of this thread for more info.