Suggestions, based off the Strategy threads.

[PurplePoot]

(Haven't played the game yet, so there are no balance comments, but provided the Strategy threads are accurate then I should be well-informed)

You seem to have made all Enchantments/Enchant Creatures (such as Bad Moon and Animate Dead (and maybe Crusade? Hard to tell)) into spells. Is there any chance of, perhaps, making some Enchantments (or at least Enchant Creatures?) There were some very effective ones, such as Unstable Mutation, which I think would fit well into this map (in the case of Unstable Mutation, misused it could cause a waste of a powerful creature, but used well it could cause severe pain to your enemies )

Also, what about The Hive just because of the name? I noticed you used Serpent Generator

Finally, interested in any suggestions for new/different creatures? A specific one comes to mind, whose name eludes me (I can check tomorrow, on my PC), which is 2GR for a 2/2 first strike, whenever this creature deals combat damage to a creature, destroy that creature. Also, Vampire Bats, and maybe a Shade (Frozen Shade, Shimmering Shade, etc, etc).

Also, Lord of the Pit, flying? (Also, his sacrifice penalty was an interesting balance factor too, especially with Sengir Bats in this )

Also, for some reason whenever I think of Green I think of Grizzly Bears and War Mammoth (Nice with Child of Gaea though, that one's a personal favorite). Also, do you think something such as Birds of Paradise, Llanowar Elves, Fyndyhorn Elves, etc, would be too imbalanced?

Also, I laugh at your Brassclaw Orcs (old magic fans may know what I mean by this one)

Next, only one Goblin? Red seemed to love them much more than that (even beyond tribes!), and I'm sure you could adapt some of them to work nicely.

Finally, I find it a bit strange that Meteor Shower and Magnetic Mountain (very obscure cards, and Meteor Shower sucks very much in the real magic) are included instead of more well known cards such as Fireball and Lightning Bolt (or Shock if you're not oldschool, I guess )

 

[GreyArchon]

(Haven't played the game yet, so there are no balance comments, but provided the Strategy threads are accurate then I should be well-informed)

You seem to have made all Enchantments/Enchant Creatures (such as Bad Moon and Animate Dead (and maybe Crusade? Hard to tell)) into spells. Is there any chance of, perhaps, making some Enchantments (or at least Enchant Creatures?) There were some very effective ones, such as Unstable Mutation, which I think would fit well into this map (in the case of Unstable Mutation, misused it could cause a waste of a powerful creature, but used well it could cause severe pain to your enemies )

You'd have to suggest how to use Enchantments in this map's current form. Gratuituous Violence and Metamorphosis for instance, despite being spells, work much like an enchantment of sorts. They give current creatures in play a significant boost.

Also, what about The Hive just because of the name? I noticed you used Serpent Generator

Haha, I would! But Serpent Generator was in the Starcraft original, and I wanted to preserve that.

Finally, interested in any suggestions for new/different creatures? A specific one comes to mind, whose name eludes me (I can check tomorrow, on my PC), which is 2GR for a 2/2 first strike, whenever this creature deals combat damage to a creature, destroy that creature. Also, Vampire Bats, and maybe a Shade (Frozen Shade, Shimmering Shade, etc, etc).

Not sure if more creatures is viable. There's a delicate balance regarding the different units' strengths and weaknesses currently. Play the map and come back with your thoughts on this one.

Also, Lord of the Pit, flying? (Also, his sacrifice penalty was an interesting balance factor too, especially with Sengir Bats in this )

Didn't want to give black more flying creatures, and sengir bats do self-sacrifice. In an effort to keep each creature as unique as possible, I've kept their abilities and different aspects as far apart as I could.

Also, for some reason whenever I think of Green I think of Grizzly Bears and War Mammoth (Nice with Child of Gaea though, that one's a personal favorite). Also, do you think something such as Birds of Paradise, Llanowar Elves, Fyndyhorn Elves, etc, would be too imbalanced?

I really want to add Birds of paradise somewhere in the future versions.

Also, I laugh at your Brassclaw Orcs (old magic fans may know what I mean by this one)

Next, only one Goblin? Red seemed to love them much more than that (even beyond tribes!), and I'm sure you could adapt some of them to work nicely.

Finally, I find it a bit strange that Meteor Shower and Magnetic Mountain (very obscure cards, and Meteor Shower sucks very much in the real magic) are included instead of more well known cards such as Fireball and Lightning Bolt (or Shock if you're not oldschool, I guess )

Brassclaw Orcs rah!
Yeah, I need to add a Goblin King in red's arsenal. Maybe replace one of the existant red creatures.
Meteor Shower and Magnetic Mountain were in the Starcraft original, and again, that was my reason to keep them in. Preserving the original as much as I could.

Besides, you know you love casting Meteor Shower 5 seconds after Magnetic Mountain. :9

 

[PurplePoot]

You'd have to suggest how to use Enchantments in this map's current form. Gratuituous Violence and Metamorphosis for instance, despite being spells, work much like an enchantment of sorts. They give current creatures in play a significant boost.

Hrm, I suppose. I was more thinking something that potentially wasn't global (Enchant Creature), I guess, but that might be too much work (on the user side that is).

About magnetic mountain and meteor shower, it's funny how they're so different (and so not sucky) in this

 

[GreyArchon]

Hmmm.

Perhaps an enchantment that appears as a one-time-use item inside a Wizard's inventory, which can be cast on a target friendly creature, increasing its' strength in one way or another?

Could work.

 

[PurplePoot]

Yeah, using it as an item would work.

Oh, and a good global enchantment based off an enchant creature would be Unholy Strength (temporary), but I suppose Bad Moon is pretty similar as far as global goes.

(Oh, I edited my earlier post. Also, Fear would be cool in some way/shape/form)

 

[Maedh]

Add a Giant Growth spell for green, Temporarily giving units some sort of buff

 

[GreyArchon]

On second thought, manually enchanting a single creature may be just a bit too.... meaningless. We're talking about dozens of creatures in play at any given time, enchanting just a single one for a manacost seems redundant.

Also there's stuff like dispell, spell steal, abolish magic, mind bomb, metamorphosis and hunting pack that'd interfere with the enchanting.

 

[PurplePoot]

Hrm, possibly.

Suggestion, then: You could do Overrun for green =o (as a sort of global enchantment)

~Hosting right now.

EDIT:

Gave it a spin. It was overall good, but there were some balance flaws.

-Red seemed quite weak.

-Blue was the strongest colour. Why? Buy 8 Unseen thingees and 1 Djinn. GG. (Clone hax)

-Radiant, as mentioned, is very overpowered. His heal, in particular, is insane.

Also, to cut down the filesize a bit, just use the default mannoroth, not an imported one for the decay animation?

 

[GreyArchon]

Red is weak the moment he waits in his base and does nothing for too long a time.

Radiant will be fixed in the next version. His heal will remain unchanged though, since its' cooldown is already huge. His HP pool will be nerfed, and his attack damage a slight bit as well.

That's a pretty good blue strategy.
May have to look at Clone "damage taken" a bit though.

That is the default Mannoroth.

 

[PurplePoot]

Roffles, I never thought blizzard gave decay animations to any heroes...

As for the "Pretty Good Blue Strategy", I could easily pick off 1 artifact, or 1-2 3500$ units no problem with one wave of 8 fake Djinns. (Flying too, yay)

Oh yeah, a bug.

Wind Walk removes the Djinn's ability to walk over cliffs.

EDIT: To optimize models... (Popped open the map to get the list of models and filesizes)

• Dwarf Warrior seems to be the biggest... You could use Mountain King instead.
• Floating Eye could be replaced with Sentry Ward or something? As it is, it looks really odd anyways
• That loading screen is eating up a ton of space, just use a custom one.
• You could just make up an excuse for why there are trolls on the bats, and use the Troll Batrider model for Sengir Bats.
• Just make Savannah Lions spawn one type of lion?
• Are you using Lava Spawn? If not, use it for Lavacore Elemental.
• Do you really need both Tiger.mdx and WhiteTiger.mdx?

EDIT2: Just noticed there is no Serra Angel

There was even one in the original, what's your excuse? (Serra Avatar is cooler in MTG? )

 

[GreyArchon]

Roffles, I never thought blizzard gave decay animations to any heroes...

As for the "Pretty Good Blue Strategy", I could easily pick off 1 artifact, or 1-2 3500$ units no problem with one wave of 8 fake Djinns. (Flying too, yay)

Oh yeah, a bug.

Wind Walk removes the Djinn's ability to walk over cliffs.

EDIT: To optimize models... (Popped open the map to get the list of models and filesizes)

• Dwarf Warrior seems to be the biggest... You could use Mountain King instead.
• Floating Eye could be replaced with Sentry Ward or something? As it is, it looks really odd anyways
• That loading screen is eating up a ton of space, just use a custom one.
• You could just make up an excuse for why there are trolls on the bats, and use the Troll Batrider model for Sengir Bats.
• Just make Savannah Lions spawn one type of lion?
• Are you using Lava Spawn? If not, use it for Lavacore Elemental.
• Do you really need both Tiger.mdx and WhiteTiger.mdx?

EDIT2: Just noticed there is no Serra Angel

There was even one in the original, what's your excuse? (Serra Avatar is cooler in MTG? )

Wind Drift's description actually saus that it is unreliable when used above water or mountains.

The eye model is tiny, the dwarf warrior is too cool to remove, sengir bats will look retarded when mounted... I do wanna keep some eyecandy in there. Big issue is the loading screen at the moment, I can fix that to reduce size.
Lava spawn is used for Myojin's Ultimate.
Savannah Lions use the same skin, models are small as well..

Hmm, the tigers... think one is the white one and the other's the orange one. They're both for green and dont have teamcolor, so yeah, need 'em both.

Yeah, Serra Angels were replaced by Cloudchaser Eagles, so I could also give white Skyrider Trainees.

 

[PurplePoot]

the dwarf warrior is too cool to remove

That describes your filesize problem

Wind Drift's description actually saus that it is unreliable when used above water or mountains.

You could try to fix it instead of pretending it isn't a bug

 

[GreyArchon]

That describes your filesize problem

Meh.

You could try to fix it instead of pretending it isn't a bug

I tried, I couldnt. Besides, I like the way it is now. You cant sneak into enemy territory with it active unless you take the long road.

 

[Angelusz]

Pooty, don't be too harsh. WE isn't a strong enough tool to fix everything exactly the way we want it. And in my opinion, a bit of eyecandy is more important than a small filesize. The only players that I want in my games are the patient types anyway, good way to filter the noobs from your game!

 

[PurplePoot]

Crusade seems to raise the ground it's over every time you cast it?

 

[GreyArchon]

Hmm? No, the place where the crusader temple spawns is elevated on its own. There isnt a terrain elevation event in the spawn trigger.

 

[PurplePoot]

Hmm, I got that one from my brother, but that's what he claimed (and it looked like he was right from when I killed it the two different times). I'll check again sometime soon and get back to you.

 

[DungeonM]

I really liked the old SC version, played that a ton but I think you could improve this alot by getting rid of the beacons and using the mercenary system for the units/spellbook. Also improving the terrain somewhat wouldn't hurt.

Looks pretty good as it is now though and is definetly a faithful remake.

 

[GreyArchon]

Not sure how to make the terrain sexier at this point, and I really dont want to move away from the beacons system- as a remake it should keep using it, I feel.

Thanks for the kind words.

 

[PurplePoot]

You should really draw the line of where you stop making it a remake and where you use the superior capabilities of the WarCraft engine, but meh.

 

[Angelusz]

GreyArchon is right on this one in my opinion. Also, it's his map, he has final say in the matter. He's pretty clear at what he wants so I guess you better drop the issue.

 

[GreyArchon]

I wouldnt want to disencourage anyone sharing their thoughts.
Though maybe I should make a post where I explain my mindset (and what aspect of the game has higher priority) a bit further.

I mean personally, nostalgia does play into it. Many people played the starcraft map. To see it return, 5 years later...

 

[PurplePoot]

Sorry if I sound too forceful or anything, I'm just stating my opinion myself.

It's just kind've annoying to have to walk to the back of your base whenever you want to do something.

 

[GreyArchon]

Ah, but there's a neat little trick you can use to quickly get back to the center of your base.

Just blink into an enemy one.

 

[Angelusz]

Didn't know that one. But yeah, I do like the fact that it kind of sticks to the original. I was a huge fan of the Starcraft version myself, you have managed to "capture the feeling" a bit, whilst improving on some parts, too. I miss green's guardian spam and blue's airspam though xD

 

[GreyArchon]

Green's guardian is the Dustwasp, though granted, it's more effective against buildings than units.
Blue still has their Airspam, they got the most flying creatures in the game.