[Suggestion] Threat attribute

[Xonok]

I've noticed that as time goes on it gets harder and harder for tanks to hold agro against characters of their own level and gearing. Note that I have yet to encounter a similar mechanic for any other classes.

Thus, I suggest an attribute that would increase threat generation more than a damage attribute does.
Something like 1.5 - 2 times as many times as a point in a damage stat(str for squire classes) should be fitting, I guess.
I guess this skill would also require something else, as all other attributes have multiple effects, but I am not sure what would be fitting here.

 

[GIMLI_2]

monk classes dont have a problem in tanking (at least for bosses)
well crusader have the problem that (if they skill int) they have way too less armor penetration, while a berserker has around 50 or 60 (dont know exactly) the crusader has just about 10. thats a high amount of missing damage. nevertheless crusaders are able to tank.

 

[Ihazdialup]

idk... but I get tired of these threads/posts.
Its not the crusaders have the inability to tank, people just don't play them right to get the aggro. I can easily outaggro any other class on my crus, so... I don't see the problem, its not the class.

But that is a nice suggestion... I just don't see a use, and I see a potential code wipe... maybe not but it might, but I just get tired of threads that in general complain about tanks aggro, and bring up suggestions to make it more noob friendly and make it too easy to tank, c'mon the games supposed to be challenging at this point

 

[Vestra]

Yeah so far there has been next to no agro management. It should be a challenge to maintain agro. I agree with Ihaz on this.

 

[muzzel]

well crusader have the problem that (if they skill int) they have way too less armor penetration, while a berserker has around 50 or 60 (dont know exactly) the crusader has just about 10. thats a high amount of missing damage.

Dont forget that crusaders deal non-physical damage with celestial zeal which ignores armor.

 

[GIMLI_2]

yeah but berserker still deal more damage with their attacks

 

[Last_Wish]

There is no need to impement such an attribute. First of all some talents/items, which reduce aggro accumulation, will no longer be viable. Also, such an attribute, which allows tanks justright-click, makes the game totally boring. With proper use of guardian angel I have never had any problems in holding aggro with my crusader. Looks like monk and tanky zerk are not going to have any problems with holding aggro either (+30% aggro with normal attcks for zerks and double threat from magical damage for monks).

I have always liked Gaia's because beating bosses is mostly based on skill and not on items or levels. Don't make the game too easy, this will make it much less attractive.

 

[Xonok]

There is no need to impement such an attribute. First of all some talents/items, which reduce aggro accumulation, will no longer be viable. Also, such an attribute, which allows tanks justright-click, makes the game totally boring. With proper use of guardian angel I have never had any problems in holding aggro with my crusader. Looks like monk and tanky zerk are not going to have any problems with holding aggro either (+30% aggro with normal attcks for zerks and double threat from magical damage for monks).

I have always liked Gaia's because beating bosses is mostly based on skill and not on items or levels. Don't make the game too easy, this will make it much less attractive.

Same could be said about any attribute. They are all designed to make the game easier for your own build.
I don't see a problem with tanks giving up half their damage to have more decent agro generation.

 

[TitanDeath]

You do realize that giving up half their damage means their agro will be reduced by 50% right? Reducing half their damage would just make it more complicated and annoying. And not to mention they are the lowest damage class minus Druid.

Besides all that, the only real problem that the Crusader has with agro is the transition between Squire and Crusader. That's when you need several abilities and a lot more int to hold agro. Once you get past that point it becomes much easier.

 

[Xonok]

You do realize that giving up half their damage means their agro will be reduced by 50% right? Reducing half their damage would just make it more complicated and annoying. And not to mention they are the lowest damage class minus Druid.

Besides all that, the only real problem that the Crusader has with agro is the transition between Squire and Crusader. That's when you need several abilities and a lot more int to hold agro. Once you get past that point it becomes much easier.

What I mean is that the agro attribute could be scaled accordingly.

I'm far from that transition already. Pretty much all that I have left to upgrade is my armor. Yet, berserkers easily steal agro even if I put guardian angel on them and nuke the shit out of the boss. Guardian angel only seems to help me temporarily.

 

[muzzel]

Have u tried getting some str instead of all const? U dont need 1100 hp ...

 

[Xonok]

Have u tried getting some str instead of all const? U dont need 1100 hp ...

I like my health Atm my setup is very good for soloing stuff and horrible in groups.

 

[muzzel]

More str is better for soloing too (for soloing you need to max hp/sec, not max hp) and str gives higher dps.

 

[Xonok]

More str is better for soloing too (for soloing you need to max hp/sec, not max hp) and str gives higher dps.

Well, I agree that atm I have a bit more health than needed. I often feel that there's an unused buffer. In any case, I'll try out some other attribute combinations sooner or later.

 

[Vestra]

You should, why make a suggestion off a terrible build?

 

[Last_Wish]

You should, why make a suggestion off a terrible build?

Well, the discussion is the place, where the truth is born. Some people don't see the opportunities. Yesterday was flamed by people, saying that 2 int, 5 sp, 4 agl from seal of defensive chants is way much better for crusader then 6 STR + 6 AGL from stonefist gauntlets...

We had a long discusiion, which ended like "you have guradian angel anyway for single target, u gotta max sp for aoe aggro generation". Well, if people build their tanks like this, of course they are going to have problems with single target aggro generation if fight lasts long and they don't get lucky resetting cd on guardian angel.

 

[Xonok]

Now that I think of it it was wise of Zwieb to not make a flat out agro attribute. Cos atm crusaders easily have 4 attributes to balance between(although agi is not necessary, it can still be useful).
Str for single DPS and threat
Agi for (maybe) evasion and higher damage(through crits, but that might not work)
Int for AoE threat
Const for survival

 

[Vestra]

Keep in mind int on both monks and saders counts as pretty significant agro gain

 

[marb]

Tank classes are fine as they are now and do not need a new additional stat for them to tank. Here's 2 examples:

1) Leadership crusader's taunt lasts 6 seconds, has a 10 second cooldown. This means that you get aggro 60% of the time. Still not satisfied? Level 5 Leadership adds 30% threat for magic spells, notably Crucify. This means within the 4 seconds duration where Taunt does not apply you still have Crucify and Shield Slam to maintain aggro.

2) Agi/Int hybrid build monks maintain aggro well too. High AS + B&M procs whilst having steel body on generates alot of aggro very quickly (My monk had 400% around aggro after Alchemist's rage, and nukers take about 200%-250% off, which leaves me more than 100% aggro, still tanking in the process). My monk has around 668 HP, 75 armor and 48% evasion and I can tank any boss just fine (Even through Alchemist's Rage).

 

[Vestra]

Maintaining agro via taunt is pretty unreliable though as once the timer ticks off, its fairly uncertain as to who will take up that 4 seconds of agro. Generally a Shield Slam/Crucify will not actually be enough to cover the burst damage people fail to monitor due to the inaccurate agro reading of a taunted enemy.

 

[Xonok]

Maintaining agro via taunt is pretty unreliable though as once the timer ticks off, its fairly uncertain as to who will take up that 4 seconds of agro. Generally a Shield Slam/Crucify will not actually be enough to cover the burst damage people fail to monitor due to the inaccurate agro reading of a taunted enemy.

I've put my talents into the tree that resets cooldown and don't have much of a chance to take agro from maxed berserkers(but assassins don't seem to be a problem).
Then again, that tree mostly adds tanking, not agro generation.

 

[Vestra]

Yeah that reset cooldown trigger seems pretty awful when you consider a crusaders attack rate.

 

[Ihazdialup]

Although, on average with the reset cooldown, you have 30 seconds to get on average 20 attacks, and im pretty sure crusaders don't attack slower than once per second.

 

[Vestra]

isnt it a ridiculously low proc though? It just seems pointless compared to other talents.

 

[Ihazdialup]

5% or otherwise 1/20 hits ON AVERAGE

 

[Vestra]

Yeah thats on average, you try running a 5% proc like that on such a slow attacker who already has pretty reasonable cooldowns, save for GA and Revenge.

You just don't need the talent, really. Pretty sure my sader is 4/0/2 or some shit

 

[Ihazdialup]

yeah, im 1/0/5 mainly because I think was gonna put 4 points into virtue anyways, then I find the reset more useful than 2/0/4 or 1/1/4.

 

[marb]

Maintaining agro via taunt is pretty unreliable though as once the timer ticks off, its fairly uncertain as to who will take up that 4 seconds of agro. Generally a Shield Slam/Crucify will not actually be enough to cover the burst damage people fail to monitor due to the inaccurate agro reading of a taunted enemy.

Thats why you have GA, crucify and shield slam to rotate between the 4 second windows before using a 6 sec taunt again.

 

[Ihazdialup]

But GA has like a 2 minute cooldown, kinda can't rotate it every 10 seconds 0.0 even if you talent respec as much as it will allow you (once every 30 seconds) that still gives it a 30 second cooldown, and yeah maintaining aggro via taunt is a bad idea, because the boss might do its nuke that you need to tank in that couple seconds of not aggro, or in the case of alchemist, enrage and just totally destroy whoever has aggro within those couple of seconds, if its not a crus, zerker, or monk.