Starcraft II Retail Version - RELEASED

[PurplePoot]

Most of these people are in high school and have everything bought by their parents; what else do you expect?

 

[Berb]

Most of these people are in high school and have everything bought by your parents;

You mean their parents, not mine

 

[PurplePoot]

Yes, it's 4am; excuse me.

 

[elfian]

And second the melee is way better than DoW?

And third there is little justification that SC is a WH40K ripoff?

2. That's different in each person's opinion. In my opinion DoW has better gameplay than SC2, because of the squad-based army and the strategic point capturing. Then again DoW2 gets to have the worst gameplay, because of the lack of buildings.

3. Space Marines. Then again - Starcraft reminds me more of the movie Alien or Starship Troopers. The fuss about which is ripped off from the other probably comes out of the obvious fact that Warcraft is a Warhammer ripoff. Then again Warhammer Online is an obvious ripoff WoW. Whatever.

 

[PurplePoot]

Space marines are way older than WH40K.

Also, how is Warcraft a Warhammer ripoff? If anything, both resemble LotR ripoffs and so on and so forth.

--

The reason I put SC/2 above DoW is because DoW is boringly slow paced and has far less strategy than either SC game. I assume that you can at least concede that SC/2 are faster paced and have more strategy than DoW, or do you need me to spell out why?

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

Why do you even compare DoW and SC? Wth is DoW? Some random game, shrinking next to war3 and SC. SC's become national esport/sport in Korea, together with war3 has long time history and popularity, top scene like no other game. I must say SC has maybe even bigger popularity than war3, but the fact is both shouldn't be compared with some DoW or whatever.

 

[elfian]

Space marines are way older than WH40K.

Also, how is Warcraft a Warhammer ripoff? If anything, both resemble LotR ripoffs and so on and so forth.

--

The reason I put SC/2 above DoW is because DoW is boringly slow paced and has far less strategy than either SC game. I assume that you can at least concede that SC/2 are faster paced and have more strategy than DoW, or do you need me to spell out why?

I'd partially agree with everyone ripping off Tolkien. But how can 'fast paced' or 'slow paced' ever determine if a game is better?! Have you actually played DoW? It's not slow paced at all. It has much more micromanagement, like choosing the right weapons for each squad. Also it has 9 races (far more than 3) and each one of them has a unic resource and develops differently throughout the game. Using the right tactics you can take advantage of an enemy that has 3-4 times bigger army. It's also much more realistic. I mean... 10-15 foot soldier marines with bolter guns taking down a freaking battle cruiser WTF?!

Why do you even compare DoW and SC? Wth is DoW? Some random game, shrinking next to war3 and SC. SC's become national esport/sport in Korea, together with war3 has long time history and popularity, top scene like no other game. I must say SC has maybe even bigger popularity than war3, but the fact is both shouldn't be compared with some DoW or whatever.

"Some random game"? Popularity does not mean quality. It never did.

 

[PurplePoot]

Wait, wait, wait.

Did you just say that DoW has more micromanagement than Starcraft?

Are you even reading what you are writing?

--

The game pace determines how fun the game is; I find DoW boring because it is so incredibly slow paced compared to Starcraft; there is very little micro and macro and as a result there is rarely enough to do to keep me enjoying the experience.

Also, having more races is not an inherent advantage. Starcraft sticks to 3 because it becomes much harder to balance as you add more races, and beyond about 4 it becomes essentially impossible.

Also, both games have pew pew lasers and aliens casting spells. I think it's safe to say they aren't very realistic. Starcraft chooses to ditch realism for balance and gameplay reasons, which is an excellent decision if you are trying to make a good game.

(Also, 10 marines can't take out a battlecruiser. I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure even 15 can't)

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

"Some random game"? Popularity does not mean quality. It never did.

And quantity doesnt mean quality, quality doesnt make popularity. 9 races big deal. I bet you are far away from understanding what makes a game so competitive and interesting, the skill techniques required to play the game. As you can see war3, the new game that is 3D didnt take away SCers from playing 2D game when SC was obviously competitive enough to turn into a main esport. It's pointless to compare a game that never reached that popularity for a reason.

 

[En_Fuego]

Actually, according to pretty much every gamer website I've looked at, Blizzard has been dominating in popularity, sales, and ratings. It's true that Starcraft is immensely popular in South Korea, but if you go to China you see the same exact popularity for Warcraft on a much larger scale.

I've played DoW and I wasn't impressed. The nice things about games like Starcraft and Warcraft is that if you get really high in the ladder, everything comes down to timing and how well and efficiently you can execute your build orders (this obviously takes a backseat to actual micro, but for the first 2 minutes of the game it can easily determine a winner if one person makes a mistake).

 

[mrzwach]

It sounds like every second person has a computer with 4GB of RAM and a powerful dual/quad-core processor - where the hell does everybody get the money for this stuff? These computer parts aren't cheap, they run you a couple hundred dollars each; unless someone's parents are indulging in computers for them. Just going to school and working a summer job there's no way I could save enough cash for that type of thing unless I stayed in every night and didn't do anything : (

The computer I run SC2 on at my other house has a graphics card from 2005 and a gb of RAM, along with an extremely low end (but dual core) processor. I can still ladder with it on low settings :\

It's also much more realistic. I mean... 10-15 foot soldier marines with bolter guns taking down a freaking battle cruiser WTF?!

Because obviously, realism is more important than gameplay. In a science fiction game. In a real time strategy.

 

[Just_Spectating]

Just going to school and working a summer job there's no way I could save enough cash for that type of thing unless I stayed in every night and didn't do anything : (

my life story haha

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

I'm a war3 player for the last 7 years and have played SC only 1.5 years in the 90s. Before war3 I did some lvl 80 Druid on Diablo 2 LoD. When playing SC2 I realize that although not having staff of teleportation, holy light, invisibility and other means of saving units, SC2 has also interesting tactics and micro. And SC2 is SC afterall, so now realize why some people would still stay at SC when war3 was released. Cause SC also has that. I wanna see how you will do this in DoW:

Or that:

DoW-n as in 'down'

 

[En_Fuego]

The zeppelin thing is actually a common Night Elf strat considered to be a "cheese" strat because of everyone's lack of early game range (except for NE themselves).

A lot of Night Elf players do it and a lot of them do it just as well. It's not as difficult as it looks.

The first one though, is pretty intense.

 

[elfian]

The first micro is possible in DoW in cases of dodging rockets, actually I do that all the time when I can. The second one is not however, since the game is squad based and it takes time to load most units in a transport.

EDIT:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_SkhrhSrM4

Let me see units in SC games do sync kills.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

This is a strategy game? Looks like MMORPG. It's pointless to compare them, the complexity and skill required in SC or war3 is far beyond and the events that are made for these 2 games speak for it pretty well. Damn it and still argue.

elves).

A lot of Night Elf players do it and a lot of them do it just as well. It's not as difficult as it looks.

Haha! You're better than Moon? Do you think you can micro like that? I can't, as in lose 1 unit while keeping 10 alive on 1 hit life. Humans use it too, the point of the video is the micro game that makes war3 so cool, the essence of war3. Hard to be understood in a mapmaking forum, I posted it to show that DoW should not be compared.

 

[Hivoyer]

DoW1,2 vs SC1,2

Starcraft is more prefered by most people because it's easy and because you can do stupid things that win you the game and it lacks any realism whatsoever.Like rushing with workers and blocking with buildings or killing battlecruisers with marines.It's ridicilous.Also dawn of war is slow paced?In DoW you need a lot more APM than in SC or SC2.The fact is most of you here troll without even having played the game.I bet only 1 or 2 of you has even played Dawn of War 2,let alone it's expansion pack Chaos Rising.I even doubt you all played the first one,so why do you criticise something you haven't tried out.My experience from Blizzard RTS games is:They are very slow paced,you have to do stupid things like dancing with your soldiers to dodge lurker attacks and it looks weird and unreallistic,also the community is horrible,like DotA.People troll you and swear at you and blame their team when they lose a match and everyone is so nervous.Also SC2 graphics was very dissapointing.In DoW2 you see more details than most first person shooter games' graphics.Also the races in starcraft and warcraft are cartoonish and unserious.The marines are some space cowboys,the protoss have a very poorly developed racial background and the zerg are...well not even properly copyed from the Tyranids.In Warhammer 40 000 you have many e-books for each race's history and also the soldiers are all dead serious,brutal and fanatic.You don't see them cracking jokes or having friendly chats during fights.They fight to protect humanity and they do it as it should be done - sober!

 

[elfian]

"This is a strategy game? Looks like MMORPG."

WTF?!?!?! You have never even watched a gameplay video of Dawn of War, and you are arguing about how SC2 and War3 require more strategy and tactics?! WTTTFF?!!? This is pointless.

 

[Deolrin]

Hivoyer, let me get this straight. You're saying that SC2 is a bad game because the game-units are unserious and cartoonish. Uh-huh...

The marines are criminals who have undergone 'neural re-socialization', e.g. they filled their mind with sweet thoughts and shit like they come from a rich family and have volunteered into the army etc(and after that process a marine can't even point a gun at a friendly soldier).

Ghosts are a little more 'serious' considering they go tests like... Kill the guard before he kills you, or murder some revolution fighter, or kill a person with your mind etc. And after all that they undergo a mind-wipe and are assigned a number that will pretty much act as their new name.

Protoss have a pretty developed background, you obviously didn't spend too much time reading SC-Wiki. >__>

Oh yeah and WC3 IS, in a way, a rip-off from DnD, but DnD is a rip-off from LotR and WH is a rip-off from... Other... Fantasy shit. Everything is a rip-off of something pretty much, you can never find a UNIQUE fantasy universe, there will always be, well, orcs, elves, brave humans etc.

 

[HFR]

Oh yeah and WC3 IS, in a way, a rip-off from DnD, but DnD is a rip-off from LotR and WH is a rip-off from... Other... Fantasy shit. Everything is a rip-off of something pretty much, you can never find a UNIQUE fantasy universe, there will always be, well, orcs, elves, brave humans etc.

This. Warcraft 3 is a Warhammer/LotR rip-off, and Warhammer is a Lotr, generic Fantasy stuff and real history (Empire, Brettonia, Tilea) rip-off.

Orcs -> Orcs; Elves -> Elves; Humans in mail armor -> Humans in plate armor, etc

In the same way, Starcraft IS a 40k rip-off, that is a generic sci-fi rip-off:

Marines -> Marines; Tyranids -> Zergs; and so on.

And the reason I preffer DoW is because of the astounding atmosphere of the game. Everyone is evil and will kill anyone or anything if necessary, there are tanks, religious fanatics, awesome musics, good graphics and animations, orcs with guns, etc. Also, it runs fairly well on my computer, not lagged like SC 2.

It's just my opinion afterall.

 

[En_Fuego]

This is a strategy game? Looks like MMORPG. It's pointless to compare them, the complexity and skill required in SC or war3 is far beyond and the events that are made for these 2 games speak for it pretty well. Damn it and still argue.




Haha! You're better than Moon? Do you think you can micro like that? I can't, as in lose 1 unit while keeping 10 alive on 1 hit life. Humans use it too, the point of the video is the micro game that makes war3 so cool, the essence of war3. Hard to be understood in a mapmaking forum, I posted it to show that DoW should not be compared.

No, I don't play Night Elf so I've never tried it. The thing he did ingame right there is an actual used strategy to push right as you hit T2 with a merc hero. Lots of players do it because unless you're playing against Night Elf they likely won't have anything that can hit air.

No, I'm not better than Moon. I've never said that. And yes, I can micro incredibly well for an American. My average apm is generally about 160 (Moon's is ~320ish including all of the useless clicks that DSG talks about). Mine would probably be a lot higher if I warmed up like most pro's for the first 2ish minutes and constantly spammed switch control group commands.

 

[elfian]

This. Warcraft 3 is a Warhammer/LotR rip-off, and Warhammer is a Lotr, generic Fantasy stuff and real history (Empire, Brettonia, Tilea) rip-off.

Orcs -> Orcs; Elves -> Elves; Humans in mail armor -> Humans in plate armor, etc

In the same way, Starcraft IS a 40k rip-off, that is a generic sci-fi rip-off:

Marines -> Marines; Tyranids -> Zergs; and so on.

And the reason I preffer DoW is because of the astounding atmosphere of the game. Everyone is evil and will kill anyone or anything if necessary, there are tanks, religious fanatics, awesome musics, good graphics and animations, orcs with guns, etc. Also, it runs fairly well on my computer, not lagged like SC 2.

It's just my opinion afterall.

Strange. I can run SC2 on Ultra at 1280x768 super smooth, while I can't run DoW2 smoothly on minimal at 800x600 :S I can run DoWSS at max on 1680x1050 tho.

 

[HFR]

Strange. I can run SC2 on Ultra at 1280x768 super smooth, while I can't run DoW2 smoothly on minimal at 800x600 :S I can run DoWSS at max on 1680x1050 tho.

It's DoW 1, with the 2 first expansions. Never tried DoW 2, but it'll surely lag.

And there are Tau (going with the trend: Anime rip-offs), Necrons (Terminator rip-off) and Imperial Guard (Starship Troopers and WW1 rip-offs) in it.

 

[Latecat]

basically id say most games of same sort have something in common.
lets see...
Aliens - humans - predators (not a RTS game but...yeah...)
Zerg - terran - protoss
tyranid - spehs mahreens - uh, chaos or eldar?
Scrin - GDI - Nod (doesnt really fit that much tho)

and so on, alot of games have alot in common.
stories are different, some uses em better than others and some have much more weird gameplay and other crap like that, get over it, i prefer SC over DoW mainly because i am not really fond of spending a shitload of time on 1 round (yes i got all DoW game thus far so shut the fuck up if you are to whine that i havent tried it)

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

WTF?!?!?! You have never even watched a gameplay video of Dawn of War, and you are arguing about how SC2 and War3 require more strategy and tactics?! WTTTFF?!!? This is pointless.

What the heck are you trying to prove and argue? NO RTS has much success in world events as SC and War3.

How many have played war3 or/and sc seriously to go deep into its meaning and success? I dont know DoW much but I can speak on behalf of war3 and sc. You must be joking me with your pointless protection of DoW. If you dont believe me, believe PurplePoot or others who have played both to say that it is nowhere comparable game but not someone who at war3 or sc2 will suck hard and go back to DoW and say Dow is ze best cause doesnt need as much skill as war3,

 

[PurplePoot]

Why does it have to be ridiculously difficult to pull off for it to be real micro?

 

[HFR]

Of course Wc3 and SC are more popular than DoW and even Age of Empires.

People play a game because they like it, not because it's more famous and such. If that was true, everybody would be only playing Mario all the time.

 

[Just_Spectating]

who started this argument hubub?

 

[elfian]

McDonalds is hyper popular and everyone eats McDonalds, that doesn't mean that it's good food at all. As I said, popularity DOES NOT mean quality. You are speaking of a game, that you haven't played, not even watched. You are right. YOU can't compare them. How can you compare two things, when you haven't even taken a glimpse of the other one? How can you even claim to know that DoW does not require enough strategy when you haven't even seen it on a damn video?!?! I'm not trying to make you play DoW, I'm trying to make you accept that Blizzard isn't the onliest O holy god of gaming that makes the best games ever and forever.

"Trust PurplePoot" Oh? Why wouldn't I trust for example another person that confirms my opinion? There are plenty of them too you know.

 

[SilverSong]

I've played several campaigns now and I am just amazed. I played original Starcraft, and I have to say the way the creep is animated, shifts, moves it's amazing! The other animations on the HUD, also amazing! As a regular War3 custom games player I found Normal setting to be way too easy and settled on Hard for a challenge.

My dad who also regularly plays War3, found easy setting to be too hard, and was complaining to me about it! Dad's about 65 years old now.

 

[PurplePoot]

I've played and watched DoW and it has essentially no micro and macro, and lacks anywhere near the strategy of any -craft.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

"Trust PurplePoot" Oh? Why wouldn't I trust for example another person that confirms my opinion? There are plenty of them too you know.

You are far not good at any of the game to understand what makes SC1,2 war3 much greater games than some random DoW. After 7 years only in war3 I can detect easily when someone just doesnt understand esports and talks nonsense. You just can't put DoW as equal to sc or war3. It doesnt matter if it has better grahpics than sc1 or even war3, it is not the competitive game that war3 or sc are. It may be nice/awesome/great but far not equal to the Blizzard RTS. Hopeless discussion tc tc tc

 

[elfian]

"You are far not good at any of the game to understand what makes SC1,2 war3 much greater games than some random DoW"

From all your words all I can think is that you have some special "fortune-telling powers" :|

EDIT: There are also eSports on Tetris, that doesn't make it "the most awesome game in the world that can't even be compared to any other game" really.

 

[Hivoyer]

Forum troll

So basically you're an idiot.

Ok, got it.

Do you want to get reported for flaming and insulting?If you can't say anything don't swear at people and just don't comment the thread.Go play your starcraft,no one is stopping you.

You are far not good at any of the game to understand what makes SC1,2 war3 much greater games than some random DoW. After 7 years only in war3 I can detect easily when someone just doesnt understand esports and talks nonsense. You just can't put DoW as equal to sc or war3. It doesnt matter if it has better grahpics than sc1 or even war3, it is not the competitive game that war3 or sc are. It may be nice/awesome/great but far not equal to the Blizzard RTS. Hopeless discussion tc tc tc

I'm good at all of these games and unlike you i don't show unprovoked hostility to other forum members.DoW is made by Relic Entertainment-a world known RTS game developer.Ofcourse you don't know that since the only games you ever played on your 20year old PC are starcraft and warcraft 3 on low settings.

And to PurplePoot - you said there isn't any micro and macro in DoW.

I've played and watched DoW and it has essentially no micro and macro, and lacks anywhere near the strategy of any -craft.

Then the units don't have movement?Obviously you don't even know what micro and macro means.YOu're not good enough at any of these games to use pro talk,so please just don't...


As for the skill required to play games - High end DoW matches take more skill since the game engine allows for more complexity in the battles.The ranged/melee units mechanic just adds another dimention to the gameplay.I used to play with a bunch of guys that were so pro at DoW one of them had developed special charts with plans for developing the economy of each race on every map of the game.It was some really complex stuff.You don't just sit in the base and mine minerals and gas,you have to hold far off strategic and critical locations and decide which one you should give up to the enemy and which one is worth losing soldiers to defend.Also there is more micro than macro in Dawn of War.Infact there is no macro,since you never click attackmove on a large army.you always scout your enemy's army and position your squads in a way that you are under cover and put jetpack/teleporting units on high ground,so they can ambush the enemy once they arrive.

 

[HINDYhat]

Also there is more micro than macro in Dawn of War.Infact there is no macro,since you never click attackmove on a large army.

Because macro means attack-moving a large army?

Yeah...

 

[NearbyHermit]

Because macro means attack-moving a large army?

Yeah...

Last time I checked wasn't macro the large scale war in a RTS ?

 

[elfian]

What is this debauchery?! There is micro and macro in every classic real time strategy.

 

[HINDYhat]

Last time I checked wasn't macro the large scale war in a RTS ?

Macro is developing a powerful economy to build a well-composed army in the most efficient way possible.

 

[elfian]

Macro is developing a powerful economy to build a well-composed army in the most efficient way possible.

So what exactly is attack-move? D

 

[Hivoyer]

macro

i didn't mean macro is only attackmoving a large army,I just meant to say that in DoW you're always micromanaging single squads and units

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

EDIT: There are also eSports on Tetris, that doesn't make it "the most awesome game in the world that can't even be compared to any other game" really.

Maybe I do. I just know how much knowledge they have about a game just from their words, in most cases I turn out to be right. The point is DoW isnt as good as war3 or sc, it lacks the techniques that the Blizz games have. Why dont you go and check the history of these games see which has more success DoW or Blizz games? But you may have to go through lots of history when it comes to SC/war3.

@Hivoyer
I'll just leave you to your beliefs. But check the history of the games, say the top scenes etc, then come back. Nothing more to say, Gl

 

[elfian]

Imtor, DoW's 'history' is based off the Warhammer 40,000 universe which started as books and tabletop games around '87, that makes it one of the games with the longest histories ever. I would understand SC2 or War3 being more competitive due to their gameplay style, but competitiveness isn't the onliest factor to make a game fun.

btw, (TRANSLATED: are you bulgarian)?

 

[Hivoyer]

Imtor, DoW's 'history' is based off the Warhammer 40,000 universe which started as books and tabletop games around '87, that makes it one of the games with the longest histories ever. I would understand SC2 or War3 being more competitive due to their gameplay style, but competitiveness isn't the onliest factor to make a game fun.

btw, б@@@@@@@ @@ @@?

I'm bulgarian too and Imtor doesn't mean canon history he means the game's development history and yeah starcraft had more fans,because at the time it was made it was the best RTS,but Dawn of War is still better nowadays.As for competetiveness Dawn of War also had a ladder and Dawn of War 2 also has a ladder and the balance in Dawn of War is better than that in starcraft..Less people play it because it's more difficult and it's a lot heavier on the system requirements than SC2.

 

[En_Fuego]

Actually, if you watch a pro Wc3 replay (I suggest gosugamers.net or wcreplays.com) you'll find that every player has everything down to a science.

Map control and economy are big parts of WC3. If you can setup an early expo that would generally lead to you having a big economic advantage. Conversely, your opponent will likely end up with a big tech advantage.

WC3 is full of situations where you have to control different sections of the map and sacrifice others to win. Just look up base racing if you don't believe me.

edit:

Micro = Micro Management = how you control your units and army (usually people use APM to judge this)
Macro = Macro Management = how you control your economy, base, and overall production (so like deciding to break upkeep or just bank money before you break upkeep)

WC3 is a very fast paced game. Most pro 1v1's average 12 minutes. That's pretty fast to me, considering by that time they're fighting with full T3 armies unless Human is involved.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

btw, 6@@@@@@@ @@ @@?

*Falls*
хахаххаха @@.

I'm bulgarian too

*Double Fall*

Ok whatever, enough about DoW. As En_Fuego, 'every player has everything down to a science.' in war3, in another forum we've discussed that war3's tactics has its own science. But SC2 too, so even if not like war3 micro that Im gonna miss a lot, SC2 has its own specfic things that make it just as interesting as war3 is.

 

[PurplePoot]

Wall of quotes

Do you want to get reported for flaming and insulting?If you can't say anything don't swear at people and just don't comment the thread.Go play your starcraft,no one is stopping you.

Ok, report me if you insist. As I said earlier, honesty is the best policy, and if they're an idiot I'll call them out on it.

I'm good at all of these games and unlike you i don't show unprovoked hostility to other forum members.

Irony alert.

DoW is made by Relic Entertainment-a world known RTS game developer.Ofcourse you don't know that since the only games you ever played on your 20year old PC are starcraft and warcraft 3 on low settings.

This kid.

And to PurplePoot - you said there isn't any micro and macro in DoW.

If you consider a game that can be played comfortably at 20APM (and obviously I am exaggerating here, but you'll quote it as a literal statement anyways) to have micro and macro, then sure. By "No micro and macro" I clearly mean no significant amount that takes any effort.

Then the units don't have movement?Obviously you don't even know what micro and macro means.YOu're not good enough at any of these games to use pro talk,so please just don't...

What is this I don't even.

If I'm not good enough in "any of these games", then I'll 1v1 you in SC2 if you're on the North American server and so desire to put your money where your mouth is.

As for the skill required to play games - High end DoW matches take more skill since the game engine allows for more complexity in the battles.

Says someone who has never watched pro SC play, clearly.

The ranged/melee units mechanic just adds another dimention to the gameplay.

Last I checked Starcraft has both ranged and melee units too. In fact, almost every RTS ever does.

I used to play with a bunch of guys that were so pro at DoW one of them had developed special charts with plans for developing the economy of each race on every map of the game.

That's called a build order and it isn't unique to DoW.

You don't just sit in the base and mine minerals and gas

Ok so you don't know anything about SC, got it.

you have to hold far off strategic and critical locations and decide which one you should give up to the enemy and which one is worth losing soldiers to defend.

Like expansions, right?

Also there is more micro than macro in Dawn of War.

A lot more than none is not much.

Infact there is no macro,since you never click attackmove on a large army.

And you were just criticizing me for not knowing what macro is. You're classic.

you always scout your enemy's army and position your squads in a way that you are under cover and put jetpack/teleporting units on high ground,so they can ambush the enemy once they arrive.

You clearly don't know much about micro either. Positioning is important but unless you are doing it in a battle then it isn't really micro, and DoW's squad mechanic kills most possible battle micro.

I almost didn't reply to this post but it was just too awesome to pass up.

 

[Anti_Bodies]

I'm bulgarian too and Imtor doesn't mean canon history he means the game's development history and yeah starcraft had more fans,because at the time it was made it was the best RTS,but Dawn of War is still better nowadays.As for competetiveness Dawn of War also had a ladder and Dawn of War 2 also has a ladder and the balance in Dawn of War is better than that in starcraft..Less people play it because it's more difficult and it's a lot heavier on the system requirements than SC2.

Your ignorance is beautiful.

High five.

 

[PurplePoot]

Whoa, he said DoW has better balance than SC? Can't believe I missed that.

I don't understand these people.

 

[Hivoyer]

Your ignorance is beautiful.

High five.

well yours is not

 

[elfian]

"If you consider a game that can be played comfortably at 20APM (and obviously I am exaggerating here, but you'll quote it as a literal statement anyways) to have micro and macro, then sure. By "No micro and macro" I clearly mean no significant amount that takes any effort."

You haven't played DoW, have you? Or if you did, you probably played only the campaign on easy, because there is no other way you would make such statements.

"Last I checked Starcraft has both ranged and melee units too. In fact, almost every RTS ever does."

You really haven't played DoW, ha-ha! If you did, you would know that every ranged unit can be switched to melee stance, in which it will fight much differently. This isn't about separate ranged and separate melee units.

"Like expansions, right?"

No. If they were expansions, then there would've been about 10-80 of them on each map. It's about strategic points and territory.

---------

In DoW and in any game you have to watch over every unit in your battle and reposition them quickly. In DoW there is also a morale system, which FORCES you to do micro, unless you want to get your whole army killed by one unit.

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In the end I would just assume you have played DoW [less than/as much as] I have played melee maps on war3 and SC, therefore this debate is impossible to complete since both of us are just too non-objective about 'our' games. Therefore I would like to shake hands with you and let us both agree that both games are simply awesome in their own way and nothing more and that mars is not green. Okay?