Spider Empire v1.81

[Moderator]

22:17, 9th Aug 2011
-Kobas-:
Status: Approved

 

[Smokey_Bud]

Very awesome map! Easy to learn, but still very exciting!

 

[Robbepop]

hey thank you.

it would be great if a moderator could approve this map. =)

 

[Legendary]

i'll try your map

 

[Legendary]

Great map Awesome

 

[Lolzaxis]

Awesome map. Could be worth a try. 5/5

 

[Robbepop]

hiho,

thanks guys! =)

I uploaded a new version 1.72.
there I fixed some bugs and improved the AI greatly - it is now even more aggressive.
lost a game against some bots some minutes ago ... xD
however, I recommend you to play with bots AND other players! =)

hf & gl !!

Robbepop

 

[Boris_Spider]

Gameplay is cool, a tad simple but fun none the less. The terrain is decent, but rather flat and the river is unpolished. If you like I can touch it up a bit to show you what I mean.

I played 1v1 against the AI. The only complaint I have in regards to the AI is that it only sent 1 or 2 spiders at a time to retake lost obelisks. A squad of 3-5 would work better, since I was able to camp 2-5 spiders at each point I held until I generated enough spiders to capture another one.

Suggestions/Comments:
~ The Central Scout tower doesn't seem to have any function currently. Perhaps let it increase the visibility of all spiders by say 25-50. A minor, but useful bonus.
~The terrain art is decent, but generally flat. The river could be done more realistically with smoother borders. All of your ramps are eyesores, use the raise/lower feature to smooth them out.
~Incorporate 3-4 greater obelisks to capture. Allow them to grant minor boosts to stats such as movement speed, 0.05 HP regen, a 1-5% chance to evade an attack, and/or a boost to mana regen. This would implement some more Risk into the game.
~Diversify the types of spiders players have access to.
-Large spiders that are slow, but tough and lethal.
-Quick spiders that rely on fast attack and movement speed but suffer low damage/armor
-Spiders that can web other spiders to capture/kill (doesn't work on Brood Mothers).
~Allow different level spiders advantages that aren't shared by the other levels.
-Lvl 1,2 spiders have Shadowmeld (rename appropriately), allowing them to be unseen unless they move. This works at all times of the day.
-Lvl 3,4 spiders have Venom (Stage 1), basically the Orc Windrider's poison attack.
-Lvl 5,6 spiders have Venom (Stage 2), basically the NE Dryad's slow poison attack.

I'll not give you a rating since I didn't really give you a review. I do like what you have here, it's a good start. I am partial to spiders though...

//\\^^//\\

P.S.
Other users will whine about you not having credits posted on the map's thread. Is it required by any rules? No.

Suggestions for your hero proper names:
~Acanthosurria musculosa
~Avicularia avicularia
~Bonnetina rudloffi
~Brachypelma schroederi
~Maraca horrida
~Xenesthis immanis
~Pterinochilus
~Plesiophrictus
~Phlogiellus
~Nhandu tripepii

Edit:
Update soon?

//\\0o//\\

 

[Robbepop]

hiho,

thank you for your big report of the map and for your suggestions and feedback. =)

you are right - the terrain is flat but I like it the way I did it.
A game like this one doesn't need an ultimative terrain - however, the terrain is fine imo.

I really never coded an AI before and it is a really long script so sorry if it isn't perfect but I'm still working on it.
In v1.80 the AI will attack in larger groups and even organized sometimes. =)

I also thought about different spider types but my friends said that it would mess up the simple gameplay and I think they are totally right.
The central scout tower has a great functionality.
Perhaps you played in singleplayer with an open map - then it is useless.
But as long as you play normal the vision area will be a huge benefit for your strategy.

I already thought about adding two so called "Aura-Obelisks" to the game which would stand in the middle of the map where players then can fight for them.
However, I'm still not sure if I should add this new feature.

Just wait for v1.80 and you will probably see new and cool stuff. ;-)

Robbepop




Edit: Released v1.80 !! -> HF & GL !! =)

 

[Sverkerman]

Totally in love with the gameplay!

However, this could need some better terraining.
4/5

 

[Boris_Spider]

Played again, this time with 5 AI. The AI is more aggresive, which is good. The spider mobs can cause problems (player or AI), but that's more luck related then anything else. There isn't much strategy involved, which works since this is intended to be a quick game. Being attacked by 30 lvl6, about 25 lvl 5 spiders, and alot of other spiders is bad for my health; however, it's funny to watch though.

Could you at least smooth out the ramps? They make me cry when I look at them (which is whenever I attack an Obelisk).

Ideas:
~War spiders that lose a low % of their HP every few sec? The idea is that they need to feed, lest they starve to death. It would help quicken the game pace and eliminate a research. It would also discourage camping.
~Level 1/2/3 war spiders have 15%/10%/5% evasion. It's to help offset the fact that upper level spiders are practically impervious to them. Also, smaller creatures enjoy a manuverability that larger, stronger ones don't.

Seeing the center of the map doesn't really do much but give you a slight heads-up that a mob is coming your way. I still lean towards a slight increase in vision range for all spiders.

//\\oo//\\

 

[Robbepop]

hiho,

I tried to smooth the ramps but it didn't work which confused me - perhaps I have to change something with my settings ...
Did it often in the past so I really don't know why it doesn't work now. xD

Hmm,... I'm not sure with your deregeneration idea.
It is already very hard to get soo strong spiders like stage 6 and 7.
There is an upgrade "Learn Toxicity" which should sound interessting for your problem. With this upgrade you are able to kill the bigger spiders easily with the poison which stacks. So the poison is as strong with smaller spiders as with strong one because all spiders got the same poison and attackspeed. =)

I got another funny idea for the scout tower.
I thought about an active ability which can be activated after 3 (5) minutes of controlling the scout tower. (so you are meant to defend it!)
If you cast this ability you get vision of all your opponent Brood Mothers (bases) and perhaps can coordinate your attack then. =)
Effect could last 15 seconds which should be enough to scout all interessting things.^^

Robbepop



edit:
released v1.81 and besides ... smoothed those %)§(/ ramps with a one hour work. T.t

can a mod pls approve this map as I think it is working. LOL xD

 

[Boris_Spider]

Learn Toxicity is an expensive upgrade. The most recent game I played, you have to constantly upgrade your max food size and max damage. Anything else will cost you the game with 7 other AI. I see you mentioned a cost reduction, I'll check later to see if it's better. Odds are you'll have to bring the cost down to 200.

//\\oo//\\

 

[Robbepop]

hiho,

well, the three new upgrades are lategame upgrades.
it is intended that they are expensive but every single upgrade rocks.

with vampirism it is easier to get bigger war spiders.
toxicity improves the offense of smaller spiders immensely which is awesome in some situations. besides that it allows you to hunt brood mothers better with the 25% movementspeed slow.
ultima brood mother upgrade is always a good choice imo - if you got the money.^^

Robbepop

 

[Boris_Spider]

The ramps are much better now. They can be improved, but will do for now... :

In my experience, there shouldn't be a late-game. While they upgrades can be nice, they should be standard abilities already (and/or gained with higher level War Spiders passively).

Also, you can control 4/6 other players and still lose the game if you lose 1 battle. The lower level spiders are useless against larger ones. That may be how you intended the game, but if you're one of the lords facing off you may as well leave the game. There's no way to recover against 30+ lvl 5+ spiders from one player, never mind more.

Would you allow the smaller (low level) spiders to level up faster against larger (high level) spiders, excluding Brood Mothers?

Also, the games I've been playing still don't allow you to research the ability upgrades. Doing so will at least cost you lordship, if not the game.

The Brood Mother Ultima upgrade you can keep at 500 gold cost, unless you really want it to be used. The Obelisk income doesn't help much in the game. You do far better by fighting opponents.

Out of curiosity, what is the highest lvl War Spider? I thought it was lvl5, but I just saw 2 lvl 7 spiders 1/2 way to lvl 8.

//\\0o//\\

 

[Robbepop]

hiho,

I don't think that I should remove the upgrade for those war spider abilities but perhaps I will again lower their costs to 400 or something like that.

I already planned a master upgrade with which your war spiders get 2 mana instead of one per attack and so speed-up the whole growing. =)

You could be right with the low obelisk income.
Maybe I will change the income rate and timer to make them more effective.

The highest War Spider level is stage 7.
If a stage 7 war spider has got full mana it can use "berserk" which increases its attackspeed by 100% for 20 seconds.^^

Robbepop

 

[Boris_Spider]

I'm wary about how OP upper level spiders are, there's no way t deal with them without them. I want to do several more run-throughs before I elaborate though and propose solutions (posting detailed problems without offering solutions is little better than whining). I just posted in case you received similar feedback from other players.

//\\oo//\\

 

[Robbepop]

hiho,

well that's the profession.
if you know that upper-level spiders are very good and help you to win you should micro out them to prevent them from dying which definitely needs skill. =)

Robbepop


edit: thinking about making this map for sc2 ...

 

[Boris_Spider]

I just played the map again, with me and 7 AI. Protecting nearly-dead spiders isn't all that helpful. The easiest way to win is to launch Mass Comand attacks as soon as you have 40 spiders. Any other way I've tried it results in my defeat. I usually only get as far as the Ruin, 1 upgrade for Attack, HP, and army size. Sometimess I have 5-6 walls and a snake-tower thing. The games don't last longer then that.

You could make it for SC2, but you should still continue it for die-hard WC players like me...

//\\oo//\\

 

[Robbepop]

hiho,

sure - I will continue.

but first an approvement here would be very nice ...

Robbepop

 

[Kl3sk]

Kl3sk Reviews : Spider Empire
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Version : 1.81
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Map Type : Hybrid (Survival + Capture The Flag)
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Description : (3/5)

Although acceptable, this type of description doesn't do the map any favors. It makes little use of BB codes and makes it look what some may call "n00bish". Basic information aside, what is "-No losers just winners! =)" all about ? I mean I did smile, but I'm still slightly confused as to what it meant...

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In-Game Review
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Terrain
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I'm not gonna go easy on a map just because it's a little under 1 MB to download. While I may agree the terrain is supposed to fit the "Spider Theme", I would have loved to see a little bit more detail into the final outcome. Slapping a few trees, tree trunks and some bush / plant doodads just doesn't cut it. If I must remind all you would-be map-makers , I will : The year is 2011! I tend to think we evolve as a community and learn to better ourselves with every passing moment and improve future projects. If the resources are available, why not use them ? (2/5)

Models
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No custom models, but we're talking about a map that revolves around arachnids, so there's no point discussing the topic at hand, though I will say this : instead of just increasing in size when the spiders upgrade, why not give them a distinguishable (new) skin ? This can also lead to new breeds of spiders. I'm pretty sure the Hive has enough of those to go around. Simply import! (rating N/A)

Icons
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Now, I just can't forgive you for the lack of icons. If you're going create something called "Spider Empire", at least stick to the theme damn it! I can't imagine why a Tauren Reincarnation icon is used as an upgrade in this map, no matter the effects, the simplest thing you can do is make me feel like I'm in the game. A place full of venomous arachnids where the forest is their oyster. This can be done by both improving terrain, (models) skins and hell : custom icons (or at least matching ones) are most welcomed! (0/5)

Skills
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I found no bugs or glitches so I'm guessing it's a safe map to play, granted I only played 3 times. It is rather dull that the abilities are basic (W3 norm) . During this time, the only inconvenience I found was the "Group Attack" or "Mass Attack" button. Having a swarm of minions to micro means I would have little use of sending them blindingly to their grave. Here's a twist : How about you toggle this ability ? One click on the Brood Mother's ability to trigger "Micro Managing" and two clicks for "Macro Managing". This, in effect, would help you manage your troops more effectively. I'm not sure if any of this is getting to you, but either way you can PM me for a more in-depth explanation. (5/5)

Misc
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Though it's a "cute" map, and the idea seems roughly new (Spider catches Obelisk ?), yet I have difficulty keeping my eyes open through the entire ordeal. It's supposed to be an adrenaline-packed experience, I can tell by the design of it, but there's nothing to really catch my eye, no unique feature to make me say "I am playing this since it's the only map I know of that has "X" in it" . It's a twist to most survival / capture the flag / and even altered melee maps I've ever played, I'll give you that, but the replay value is cut short by delivering less than it potentially can. If I want to mass units and rush the enemy's base, I'll just play Starcraft as Zerg. End of story. (2/5)

Game-Play
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I can tell from the beginning that this is a fast-paced game, so my first concern is map-size. Considering the units' movement speed, rushing the enemy from the first few seconds seems highly plausible. And if you're gonna play full house, chances are 2 or more enemies will discover you by accident in the first minutes of game-play and pummel you into nonexistence. So while this is a "free-for-all", I'd suggest you add modes in the beginning of the game (decided by the host, of course) that include the option "Team Vs." - "Free for All" and anything else you can think of in this sense. Also, another improvement would be increasing / decreasing the amount of gold a captured Obelisk can give the owner (this time, it can be voted by each player and the majority decides).
Well, apart from suggestions the actual game-play itself isn't all that bad. It might be entertaining for some, but I don't see many people playing this after the first few goes. There's just not enough content to keep the player in-game. Let me describe the experience : "Lay eggs - Capture Obelisk - Scout for other Obelisks - Lay eggs - Find enemy scouting minion / eliminate unit - Capture Obelisk - Lay more eggs - repeat" ... Now, as fun as that may sound, the fact I can build 4 additional structures (that make very little sense coming from a map named "Spider Empire") and upgrade some abilities doesn't really warm my heart any bit. I was left with a "meh" feeling at the end of each of my three games. Oh, as a side note : For Pete's sake, "Spider-Ward" ?...I mean really ? :\ ...It's a W3 classic Serpent Ward with a classic W3 Serpent Ward icon. < -- Lazy map-making all the way.

In conclusion :

Do I recommend Survival / Capture The Flag fans to play this ? : Yes (If you're into massing units, press "A" and click on the enemy base, this is the map for you)

Do I recommend non-Survival / Capture The Flag fans to play this : No (You'll get bored the first nanosecond the game starts)

Will I play this map again : Yes / No (Undecided. If a future version is released and improvements are made, I shall further test it for a more adequate review)

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Final verdict : I guess this boils all down to opinion. Hence, I personally do not agree with approving a map that seems to be created since Blizzard first released W3, but at the same time, theoretically, this map does not crash, leak, or violate any Hive rules, since it also gives proper credits to their respective authors.

This should stay Rejected! (until updated) for the time being.

Foot-note : Though you might be on to something, the experience I got from Spider Empire was less than memorable. Little effort was put in this map and I'm not sure how anyone can argue with me on this level if they've tried the map out once before. It's a nice concept, but lacking good execution and quality.

* Please PM me if you have ANY questions or complaints about this review.

 

[SoW]

Brilliant!

 

[UnHolyDarKness]

hey could you PM me the way u made this Big Net ?
i was searching all the internet for it i couldn't find the answe

i will be very thankfull and greatfull to you

 

[Robbepop]

hiho,

it is easy.
I just created a new unit without attack, took the nerubian weave model (ability), made its size to about 5.0, set its selection circle to 0 and added a flying height to it (otherwise it is in the ground). =)

btw: ah forgot to mention that I also added locust ability to it to make it unselectable and immune to spells. ;-)

Robbepop

 

[-Kobas-]

Terrain ruin game, still gameplay is unique and I like it, so I guess RECOMMENDED rating can do .

Status: Approved

 

[Robbepop]

hiho,

thanks for approving but I will still update the map and improve the terrain with the tips Kl3sk gave to me when I find time ... =)

Robbepop

 

[Dj0z]

Uploaded 13 june 2011? I swear i had played a map exactly like that at least one year ago... could you please tell me why/how?
Also if you cared to code the map in vJass, at least give it a terrain of equal quality i think.

 

[Robbepop]

hiho,

well my friend (Smokey_Bud aka is the creator of spider war.
he invented the gameplay style with spider arround 2006/2007 and I helped him to further improve the game at that time.
But he stopped working on the map some time ago and I wanted to update it. =)
I asked him if I could make a map SIMILAR to his current spider war map and made this one.
However, if you really played this map you will find out that there are many many many things which I worked out totally different from the old spider war maps.

In the meantime I would no longer say that this map is a copy but a totally different game with its own gameplay, mechanics and style. =)
The only similar thing is the spider grafics.
-> My friend agreed with this btw.^^

As I said I will further improve the terrain and gameplay of spider empire.
However there are no really useful spider 2d UI grafics ...

Robbepop

 

[Foronisus]

Great map i had a lot of fun

 

[crawlers]

i wish i could talk to smokey_bud but i lost contact with him

i'm a friend of him who is not as old as you are but it's been a while since i have talked to him

 

[Dj0z]

Okay, thank you for the explanation.

 

[noobieatmaps]

Very fun, but the AI wasn't very hard with 7 AIs. (or am I just good at this game?)

5/5 and +rep

 

[humaam]

hi ho

yes is fun. remind me to before the scourge but this more enjoyable.

can you change spider with another animal? some people afraid spider.
I like play broodmother but not for longtime and full spider in the game

5/5 for this excellent map

 

[Robbepop]

hiho,

@noobieatmaps:
if you find that the ai is easy then just go to the next higher level and play against 9 bots on hard difficulty.
you will fail, I guess.^^

@humaam:
I don't know scourge ... :-(
Well, I could change the models of all spiders to whatever I want but I really like spiders.

Thank you guys for all the positive feedback! ;-)

Robbepop

 

[GONZALORD]

nice map, another great creation by Robbepop...

i enjoy the gameplay a lot, but it needs more variety of stuff.

I can ensure you that if you add more unique features this will be a really awesome map.
-May i suggest adding a "broodMother class selection" for the players to make them
feel free of selecting their own type of character, that can be a unique feature of your map.

-Also you can make a new pair of strategic structures in the map like capturable ponds
that boost some status and gives a little income or a rat burrow that lets your spiders eat or train and give you some small income too

-The idea of boris of adding a bigger obeliscs that gives more income than others is really cool too you should take some ideas that he give you before too....

-you make a really great work mapping Robbepop you make magic with your hands, "congratulations" and Great work

 

[TCOfeeder]

I owned full AI insane easily.Their so weak

 

[edddd]

another map by Robbepop!

 

[avpchin]

Love the gameplay!! The AI's not bad. It could be fun playing with loads of people together. 4/5 for me!!

 

[noobieatmaps]

hiho,

@noobieatmaps:
if you find that the ai is easy then just go to the next higher level and play against 9 bots on hard difficulty.
you will fail, I guess.^^

Robbepop

Well, to be honest, I never knew you the AI had multiple difficulty levels.
I'll play again and post back with my results. =)

 

[Megamind]

can someon tell me how to make a map or a campaing pls im new

 

[xXxMKDxXx]

Why didn't u added
-ally command
its bad when ally attack your obelisk

 

[Robbepop]

hiho,

what do you exactly mean?
can you decribe your issue better for me so that I can fix it in a future version? =)

Robbepop

 

[xXxMKDxXx]

#Ally command for making teams [-ally] [//open dialog screen with colors|slot] or [-ally <player_color>]
#More Upgs[Spders EVOLUTE to adv. level]
#Mobs Ingame for lvlup spiders
#modes [fast / tag ..etc]

 

[Robbepop]

hiho,

Im sorry to admit this terrible information but I got a huge data loss a few days ago which deleted all my spider empire maps.
I wasn't able to recover them unbroken ...

Robbepop

 

[xXxMKDxXx]

allright!
anyway I Like YOUR MAP!

 

[danmolino]

hey robbepop when will you update the Monster Master RPG? i cant wait to see the changes in the systems there

 

[cluGAmERsy]

Nice!

 

[xXxMKDxXx]

well... waiting for updates
**AN Ideas**
[Note I've writed AN, cause of fun]
-Add Different kind/s of spider/s [like in Bug Evo] [currently...no idea what/how/which... to add .. bla bla bla]
-Add Respawning Mobs Where can spiders be leveled up
-I don't know ..
Map is GR8 [5/5],. keep it up bro

 

[LeThrow]

how to kill many spiders...
1.Buy Insecticide Spray
2.Spray at one spider
3.the insecticide on the body spider if he nearby many spiders will be spread
4.then spider died.

5/5!