Several Bug Reports and Some Suggestions

[run-to]

Before the main body:

Thanks alot for the best game created by Zwiebelchen. We love the game very much. I know it's very hard work to finish a map so perfectly. It's takes amounts of personal rest time with nothing rewards. So I wanna to do something for this perfect game. Just ignore my poor English please.

Bugs reports:

1. Lady Carimedraz could be blocked by 2 players just like this.

Detailed description: It just needs 2 players with more than 350HP and 50FR to block the BOSS. The other range player attacks like this. Any team could pass this BOSS very easily with only 3 weak players.

2. The Shade could summon some shadows based on players. I think the shadows is very persistent especially the Ranger's. But we found one way to ignore it like this.

Detailed description: It's just needs ranger stay 800yd away from the BOSS when it's summoning the shadow. As the shadow appeared, the ranger only need control the wolf to attract the shadow and the shadow is repealed. It could be used for any shadow except square's and mage's by this way.

3. The summons will fall in stunning forever if The Lieutenant killed NPC during stunned. I think most players must noticed this bug already but it seems nobody report this bug.

Some suggestions about this game:

These suggestions are our own ideas after detailed discussion and correct with our team. We play the game all the time and researched deeply. I have the graduate saves with all roles by almost every verson like 1.1L3, 1.1J&K，1.1I4, 1.1D and so on. I said so much just for Zwiebelchen would pay a little more attention to these suggestions. We hope this game perfectly more and more!

1. About heal skills
Mend: It could affect 3 targets with 165+HPS in all(55+HPS per targets) but just takes 9MP per 5s and almost taken 0 time to cast.
Remedy: It affects only 1 target with 135+HPS cost 7MP per 5s and must keep casting all the time.
Nature's Blessing: it takes 15s CD! And just affect a moment.
Summon Nymph: Auto curer. But it often cures the target with no need for cure and takes no cure to the target needs cure indeed.
I think Bishop is too powerful with the most powerful HPS and DPS.
And Druid is not powerful enough to heal multi-targets because of its long CD.
Druid is also further low DPS and MP than Bishop because of no more point to add Wis or Agi.

Suggestion: Mend would affect 20s (4s per heal and also heals 5 times) but takes 10MP and 8s CD. It should be cast the target has already under the effect. Heal would takes 7MP like Remedy. Remedy and Bless should half there CD (3s and 8s) for saving other target timely when they need. Nymph should cure the friendly target only which the Druid controls it to attack. Attack the enemy target only with no cure as Druid control. And just cure with AI when whistled. Also should rise the Nymph's MP to at least 200+ by 170 because of its high overflow heal.

2. About single Magic DPS skills
Soul Strike: It's the most powerful single DPS skill in the game. It takes 3xSP to 4.5xSP Damage per 2.5s you could use it all the time. I use the skill DPS and use Plane shift to remove the threat. at the same time also keep well HPS to the other partners just rely on Mend and Divine Protection. Everything is very well perfect DPS and perfect HPS collection in my body. I kept 300+DPS and heal everybody to rush The Shade and other BOSSes like the picture showed.

Mage's Fireball and Lightning Charge is only 2.5xSP per 2.5s.
Water Globes is just 4xSP per 4s and the soaked is effect 5s only not 10s now.
Every Skeleton could take at least 18-50 DPS with 50AP and 18Arp.
The Skeleton mage takes 1.2xSP per 2.5s about 50 DPS by Shadow Blot.
3 Skeletons and 1 Skeleton mage could offer about 100-200 DPS additional with 0 threat by the Summoner. And the Skeleton mage's Curse is often covered the Bishop's. I think it’s too powerful.

Suggestion: Fix the soaked effect to 10s and add the Lightning Charge's damage to 3xSP. Soul Strike could take 3xSP damage only and take double Cri% to Undead. It also could stun Undead target 2s when Cri. Reduce Skeleton's AP to about 70% but keep its Arp and reduce the Shadow Blot to 1xSP. Just like most DPS skills is taken about 50% effect to HPS skills

3. About Mage's AOE skills
Fireball takes 1.25xSP area DPS per 2.5s. (About 0.5xSP DPS)
Incinerate takes 0.5xSP area DPS per 2s. (About 0.25xSP DPS)
Fire Shield takes 0.15xSP area from per attack (about 1.5-2s per attack). It usually used to provide the additional threat for the MT. I think Incinerate is too powerless as an advance skill. And the Fire Shield's worth is also very low. Low damage provides low additional threat.

Suggestion: Raise the Incinerate Damage to 0.8xSP and raise the Fire Shield's damage to 0.25xSP. Don't worry the Sorcerer will over power. There is threat limited him.

4. About Square's Damage and AOE (It's affecting the threat on most enemys)
Crucify takes 6xSP to 12xSP AOE Damage. 60SP provide 800 AOE Damage at least.
Eeaven's Edge takes 1.5xAP AOE Damage. 100AP provide about 180 AOE Damage.
Crucify is almost 5 times AOE Damage to the Edge. It's very unfair.
And then Crusader's attack is about 100 Physical Damage and 12 addition holy damage for single target. Berserker's attack is about 100 for one target and 50 for another. Berserker's attack is no more powerful than Crusader's and it's AOE Damage and Defence is much powerless than Crusader's. It's very unfair too.

Suggestion: Like the Soul Strike Crucify should take 6xSP damage only and take double Cri% to Undead. It also could stun Undead target 2s when Cri. Raise the Edge's AOE damage to 2xAP but not rise the damage to the main target. Two-hand weapon could damage 2 additional targets instead of 1. Add some MP cost to most square skills for their 50MP. Berserker's Rage should stopped when they take rest instead of out of combat.

5. About the most worthless role for the team in the game.
Monk: Only about 80SP with Heal and Divine Protection must not be a real healer. About 44Ar even lower than Berserker's and about 41Evasion could not make Monk to be a Tank. The elemental Damage is very dangerous to such a low HP tank. And within about 80AP and 40SP could not offer enough threat to protect other players also. So I think Monk must not be a main Tank. 80AP and 65SP with almost not any attack skill also could not make Monk to be a DPSer. The Steel Body could not offer enough protection to Monk and just despoiled heal skills from it.

suggestion: Make high Evasion(about 60+) medium Ar(about 40+) and reduce the elemental Damage to the Monk(about 50%). e.g. The Steel Body could additional Evasion by Agi, Ar by Str and an protection by Int which could reduce by elemental damage as a percent just different from resists and like Berserker's Rage. It also take Monk could not use heal spell but could use Divine Protection. The Divine Fist could keep its increases effect and not consuming this debuff by the burst. I just hope Monk could be a secondly tank with reasonable DPS or be a basic HPSer when really need. At least it should be the role was hardest of the death. Of cause remove some Evasion from the equipment which is offered both Agi and Evasion like Runes.

Bard: By my thought Bard should offer all kinds of buffs as an area effect.
When Bard cast a song the effect could affect all person who was near Bard because of hearing and keeping affect them until cancelled. As the song was played cost a lots of MP and keeping lose MP per 2s until cancelled. When the song cancelled the effect could keep a short time(about 15 - 30s). Then Bard should change the songs as needed. And Bard also could recover HP by one kind of songs slowly. It also could affect enemys by debuffs. MP, move speed, attack speed, or any other effects you could think of. And the effect's power or range should be base on Int. Perhaps Bard like this would weaker for Damage but I think it would more useful for the team and more fun for themselves because of choice.

6. About some unconscionable Equips.
There're some Equips we never want to get.
Because of their other better than them and more easier to get. e.g. [Breastplate of the Beast], [Sharpshooter], [Robes of Fire Protection], [The White Scepter], [Impressive Gloves], [Enchanted Fire Rune]
The others have some unconscionable ability. e.g. [Ring of Shielding], [Robe of Swiftness], [Vestment of the Ten Ravens], [Ravager's Hauberk]

Suggestion: Remove the [Mana Crystal] award from Lord Androzaar or Change the [Mana Crystal] award just by random dropping like [Demon Heart](more percent by The Fire Lord and less percent by The Lord Androzaar). Exchange the FR on [Robes of Fire Protection] and [Thaumaturgist's Robe]. Remove the [Sharpshooter] dropped by Lv29. Move the [The White Scepter], [Impressive Gloves], [Enchanted Fire Rune] to the other BOSS except The Fire Lord. Give a percent [Sparkling Urn] will broke when using (about 30%-40%). Move the [Luna Mantle] to The Fire Lord. Raise the Ar to 6 on the [Ring of Shielding]. Raise the Ar to 12 on the [Robe of Swiftness] and add about 3Ap or 3Int additional. Raise the Ar to 10 on the [Vestment of the Ten Ravens] and add 50HP additional. Rise the Ar to 20 on the [Ravager's Hauberk] or add 50HP additional. Move the [Holy Book], [Sparkling Jewel] to the Ancient One.
Sometimes whether they have the right equipment determines whether a professional strength.

7. About the D1 and D2.
We played this game very long time. And almost never enter D1 and D2 before Lv30 after verson 1.1. Because of there is better way to grow up in Farm. Some new players grow up quickly and leave the game quickly until finished D3 even never enter D1 or D2. Confront such a perfect game why the leaved so quickly almost without any praise. Reversely, we could often heard the sounds that this game content too little. Is it the fact? Of cause not！ But what caused them such feeling? I think it is D1 and D2. It took Zwiebelchen so much time to project detailed. But now it's nothing worth. Do you want the D3 came to be next D1 or D2? So I think why not try to recover the worth of D1 and D2?
suggestion: At First, we should segmentation the map base on the Dungeons with the help of quests. The players could not pass the bridge until finished the quest [Into the lion's cave]. And then when a player who was higher than Lv17 enter D1 all the players in D1 will get failed the quest [Into the lion's cave]. Like D1, D2's quest is [A dread from the deep] and its limited by Lv32. If not the players could not arrived the area Lv18+. D3's pass quest should be a new quest that to kill The Fire Lord and The Shade.

8. About the Thief.
Thief could grow up just to steal. As D3 a thief get all his equip(only except [Yarr Be Pirate!]) just rely to steal. Its very unfair to the other players with less fun to himself. suggestion: Remove all the steal list and add some percent(about 40%) to drop a locked box when kill a Boss. The box could not taken and could only be opened by Steal. And the box reward an item as the Boss's dropping list(of cause base on the Lv of the thief). This change makes thief more useful in the team and more fun during playing the games.

That's all I wanna to say yet.
Thanks alot to listening so much nonsense.
Hope it would take a little helpful to the best map.
Thanks for the Creater Mr. Zwiebelchen and so sorry for my poor English again!
Wish all the players would love this map and get fun.

Yours truly Chinese players: aaa, afeige2012, boy, Ekiji, Eric, GameOver, Mimic, Ranbo, Run-to, suifeng, Vivian and so on.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

First of all; thanks for the bug and exploit reports - I'll do my best to fix them.
After reading through this wall of text, these are the things that came to my mind:
1) please upload your pictures as JPEG so that I can open them with the browser.
2) I've read through all of your suggestions and it's so so. I can agree with some stuff (like nature's blessing possibly getting a lower cooldown), but others is just weird. Sometimes you tend to compare apples with pears.
I agree on steal being able to be abused by solo players by just joining new games, farming the bosses and remaking. I think I will come up with something to fix this.
3) about the D1 and D2 issue: I think it's your fault if you missed D1 and D2 just to level up faster. Just because you can doesn't mean you have to. There are lots of people entering D1 and D2 at the appropriate level for fun - and that's what they are there for. It's not highend content. You can always just outlevel it, if you feel like it, but that's fine. I want to encourage people to play the game how they want and think its fun.

However, I will change the whole xp system completely with 1.2 anyway, so I think I will take it into consideration (probably with bosses and dungeon units granting more xp than ordinary units).

 

[Vestra]

Is that thing were lieutenant being blockable on the bridge being fixed as well?]

The ranger thing is more strategy, pulling its agro on to a minion and netting it. If you'd like it to be more difficult zwieb you could get the healing shadows to re-configure their targets to the boss now and then. Either that or make the shadows spawn in a set aoe.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

The ranger thing is more strategy, pulling its agro on to a minion and netting it. If you'd like it to be more difficult zwieb you could get the healing shadows to re-configure their targets to the boss now and then. Either that or make the shadows spawn in a set aoe.

Seperating the minions from the boss to disallow them to heal is a creative way to use the game mechanics. I wouldn't consider it unwanted or exploitation. In fact I considered it as a possible tactic when creating the encounter.

 

[Vestra]

Seperating the minions from the boss to disallow them to heal is a creative way to use the game mechanics. I wouldn't consider it unwanted or exploitation. In fact I considered it as a possible tactic when creating the encounter.

Alright good it's good to know that for future encounters. But where does your opinion go when it comes to blocking units from reaching targets, like lady and lieutenant. Anything that interrupts pathing counts as a bug?

The natures blessing cooldown probably shouldn't be changed yet. It's an instant heal, it's unique to the druid class and an extremely good skill. Tbh it works fine as it is. Changing it would make the skill op in a sense, being able to instantly heal units should come with a long tradeoff.

If anything, limit steal to mana crystals, pots and cash only, leave drops on their own table. I've never seen anyone bother with rejoining games just to steal, and because of things like waves, you can't really abuse the ability to steal from bosses. Generally, people playing thieves like asses, get banned or blacklisted.

Also, run-to, something you might want to pay attention to is that D3 and shade all take extra holy damage. It's why the crusaders aoe hits for so much currently. It's also used to generate agro off heros like berserkers, since crusaders are better tanks. It's also why bishops deal such extreme damage currently. Soul strike is a very good skill though and may need a nerf later to bring bishop dps down.

 

[afeige2012]

upload test

run-to, U can upload pic like this。。。

 

[run-to]

First thanks a lot to you all for reading through the wall test and the valuable answer.

But I think I haven't expressed what I thinking about accurately. So I was leading you to misunderstand my meaning.

As my thought every Units should have the reason to exist for the team. They must provide some help essentially by their own way.

I played all the roles because of I love them all very much. But frequently I could see some players join the team as a Monk or a Druid just for fun. And they found something soon that they could not do anything for the team. We tried to tell them we need them but regrettably they couldn’t feel this practically. Someone died when they healing. We down again and again. At last someone have to repick and join us again as a Bishop just for healing the team. Not for their own fun.

I really hope that if the team needs a healer who could join as a Bishop or a Druid. Just for fun. They all should protect our partners, heal the team well and offer the different kind of support as their own style. But the support should be with a same value by different roles. That’s all what I wanna to say. I believe it’s everybody want to see too.

But now, a Bishop could heal a 5-person team easily with high DPS as a mage to the single target as the same time. The Druid couldn’t do that. Even tired to heal a 3-person team. It makes us played not for fun just for need. We have no more choice. It’s just one example for these suggestions. I think it isn’t the question how to choose an apple or a pear.

The same as roles, some skills have the same problem too. I like the setting that we need to choose some skills from all. It made me have my own style and be a different Bishop from the others. But I lose soon because of everyone takes the same choice. I think every skill should show their own power and effect in different field and they should base on the same value. But they based on the different one now. Some are so powerful and others are powerless enough. So we take the same choice because of no more choice. I try to compare the different skills and show their over distance to you. Just hope you would pay attention to those what is behind the compare I showed to you.

I mention these Suggestions based on played this game thousands of hours just because I love this game very much. If not I won’t play this game such a long time and said so much under such a strange condition. But now I must to say as before about D1 & D2 that equip is the key and exp is not. Usually we could get more fun from the gain within the pain. As my thought we should gain more after killed a Boss, and gain less just farming the field. But now some field equips obsolete most of the dungeon ones. The field equip is better than dungeon’s and easier to get. So that amounts of players including me missed D1 & D2 because of we don’t want lose our gain from the Boss so fast. It’s overthrow for our hard works. It made me loss. I think step by step is the best way to grow up for every game. It brings more fun to the players and makes the game longer life. So I had given such 2 suggestions about these equips in D3 and D1 & D2, hope our dear Mr. Zwiebelchen would thinking more deeply about those again, thanks.

PS：I’m so sorry to answer so later because of my poor English and the time difference.

 

[run-to]

Alright good it's good to know that for future encounters. But where does your opinion go when it comes to blocking units from reaching targets, like lady and lieutenant. Anything that interrupts pathing counts as a bug?

The natures blessing cooldown probably shouldn't be changed yet. It's an instant heal, it's unique to the druid class and an extremely good skill. Tbh it works fine as it is. Changing it would make the skill op in a sense, being able to instantly heal units should come with a long tradeoff.

If anything, limit steal to mana crystals, pots and cash only, leave drops on their own table. I've never seen anyone bother with rejoining games just to steal, and because of things like waves, you can't really abuse the ability to steal from bosses. Generally, people playing thieves like asses, get banned or blacklisted.

Also, run-to, something you might want to pay attention to is that D3 and shade all take extra holy damage. It's why the crusaders aoe hits for so much currently. It's also used to generate agro off heros like berserkers, since crusaders are better tanks. It's also why bishops deal such extreme damage currently. Soul strike is a very good skill though and may need a nerf later to bring bishop dps down.

Dear Vestra:

Thanks a lot for reading through the long test and pointed some different views for me.

I think the natures blessing won’t be an overpower skill if change its CD to 8s. It won’t be abused because of Druid has low MP. It should be cost more MP perhaps 8MP or 9MP. But It’s CD must down to 8s - 10s or Druid couldn’t use it usually when other needs to heal. And the Nymph won’t heal him too. No one knows which one will the Nymph heal? Perhaps is one of the skeletons who has lost only 1 HP. And then Druid must wait the Remedy cooldown and stop heal the tank to heal the other one. And wait 5s or wait 15s to heal the tank again. What do you thinking of this? OverPower? The skill is extremely good? I just called it Powerless. I agree that an instant heal should take some defects like high MP cost or longer CD than the skill which needs some second to cast. But why the Mend takes none defects like this! Mend almost cast 0s and affect all the long time with very high HPS. Why not to nerf the mend as such an overpower heal skill in this game. And I think 15s is too long for Blessing to work effectively and 8s – 10s would be more suitable.

About the steal. To stop a thief steal mana crystals is useless. A thief needs 2 mana crystals only just for one advance skill. And such as Zwiebelchen said there’re much solo players often do that rejoin the game just for steal the Boss equips, Fisherman Friend's Hat, The Ritualist's Blade and Gloves of Swiftness only. All the equips could get by steal are must suit to thief and almost not suit to the others. So I suggestion to get an additional award as a box which could be opened by thief only.

The Soul Strike and the Crucify is really overpower skill even if ignore the extra holy damage. The Soul Strike has 3xSP Damage at least to any target without any resists. It’s power enough to surpass all skills the mage have. You know we could keep casting one skill only at the same time. The Crucify is much more power than Edge too. Crucify could create at least 400 Damage without any extra including. And Edge could create about 180 only. I think it’s necessary to change their extra effect from Damage and raise the Edge’s AOE and Sorcerer’s single Damage. Why don’t we do some change for this?

That’s all. Thanks a lot to join the discussion. Welcome to put forward your different views and direct my fault.

 

[run-to]

Alright good it's good to know that for future encounters. But where does your opinion go when it comes to blocking units from reaching targets, like lady and lieutenant. Anything that interrupts pathing counts as a bug?

The natures blessing cooldown probably shouldn't be changed yet. It's an instant heal, it's unique to the druid class and an extremely good skill. Tbh it works fine as it is. Changing it would make the skill op in a sense, being able to instantly heal units should come with a long tradeoff.

If anything, limit steal to mana crystals, pots and cash only, leave drops on their own table. I've never seen anyone bother with rejoining games just to steal, and because of things like waves, you can't really abuse the ability to steal from bosses. Generally, people playing thieves like asses, get banned or blacklisted.

Also, run-to, something you might want to pay attention to is that D3 and shade all take extra holy damage. It's why the crusaders aoe hits for so much currently. It's also used to generate agro off heros like berserkers, since crusaders are better tanks. It's also why bishops deal such extreme damage currently. Soul strike is a very good skill though and may need a nerf later to bring bishop dps down.

Dear Vestra:

Thanks a lot for reading through the long test and pointed some different views for me.

I think the natures blessing won’t be an overpower skill if change its CD to 8s. It won’t be abused because of Druid has low MP. It should be cost more MP perhaps 8MP or 9MP. But It’s CD must down to 8s - 10s or Druid couldn’t use it usually when other needs to heal. And the Nymph won’t heal him too. No one knows which one will the Nymph heal? Perhaps is one of the skeletons who has lost only 1 HP. And then Druid must wait the Remedy cooldown and stop heal the tank to heal the other one. And wait 5s or wait 15s to heal the tank again. What do you thinking of this? OverPower? The skill is extremely good? I just called it Powerless. I agree that an instant heal should take some defects like high MP cost or longer CD than the skill which needs some second to cast. But why the Mend takes none defects like this! Mend almost cast 0s and affect all the long time with very high HPS. Why not to nerf the mend as such an overpower heal skill in this game. And I think 15s is too long for Blessing to work effectively and 8s – 10s would be more suitable.

About the steal. To stop a thief steal mana crystals is useless. A thief needs 2 mana crystals only just for one advance skill. And such as Zwiebelchen said there’re much solo players often do that rejoin the game just for steal the Boss equips, Fisherman Friend's Hat, The Ritualist's Blade and Gloves of Swiftness only. All the equips could get by steal are must suit to thief and almost not suit to the others. So I suggestion to get an additional award as a box which could be opened by thief only.

The Soul Strike and the Crucify is really overpower skill even if ignore the extra holy damage. The Soul Strike has 3xSP Damage at least to any target without any resists. It’s power enough to surpass all skills the mage have. You know we could keep casting one skill only at the same time. The Crucify is much more power than Edge too. Crucify could create at least 400 Damage without any extra including. And Edge could create about 180 only. I think it’s necessary to change their extra effect from Damage and raise the Edge’s AOE and Sorcerer’s single Damage. Why don’t we do some change for this?

That’s all. Thanks a lot to join the discussion. Welcome to put forward your different views and direct my fault.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Don't worry about this. I've read everything and be assured I will take everything into consideration, check it out by myself, and try to change it if needed.

About the AI of the nymph, this is still subject of change. Currently, it heals every unit in range depending on their percent-health-loss. It doesn't make any difference between minions and players. I will adjust the AI so that heroes have priority no matter what. Also, some people reported the AI to be sometimes bugged, attacking instead of healing where there was clearly a target in range to be healed. You can expect this to be fixed in the future.

About the other balance issues, I will check them by myself and compare them to how the new upcoming spells and contents have an impact on the use of it. Remember that the upcoming content is most likely not undead at all, so that crucify and soul strike deal much less damage than they do now.

Also, as I said lots of times before; I am aware of the monk and bard currently being quite useless, due to the lack of base class synergy. Monk and Bard simply change the role of the base class by a 180 degrees turn. It's pretty clear that this doesn't work without a good load of new spells to support this change. Be assured that monks and bards will get more skills in the future that will further determine and improve their class roles, whereas those classes that are already "defined" will mostly get utility spells.

Skeletons of the necromancer will also get nerfed in the future. It turned out that necromancer damage was way to high last time I tested it. I will keep the way minions are affected by the hero stats, but will probably reduce the multipliers.

About heaven's edge, actually, you are the first player complaining about its damage. Most people reported to me Berserkers actually dealing too much damage instead of too less.
Remember that crucify can not be compared to heavens edge, as crucify is a channeling spell that prevents you from attacking for a given amount of time, whereas heaven's edge is mostly instant cast. Also, crucify deals cross-shaped damage, whereas heaven's edge deals a full circle. I will check the numbers again, though, just to be sure that heaven's edge can be considered a damage spell compared to crucify.

 

[Ihazdialup]

Well, I even without the Undead Damage bonus with Soul Strike, my Bishop is able to hold a c0onstant 200 DPS at Lady, with a druid around, and thats still with mending and sheilding people, and dodging inferno.and 200 Dps is highest I've actually ever done on Lady, Only around 150 on Berserker due to dodging. Also, Run-To I have a maxed Berserker and Crusader, when my Berserker's Heavens crits, it can hit almost 800. With just the main hit. While crucify out of d3 only hits around 400-500, plus Berserkers superior auto attack damage puts Crusader's Crucity almost to shame.

 

[Ihazdialup]

Also, as of now, I think a big part of the Gaias community fears that D3 will become obsolete, due to the giant time sink into waves. If we can gain about equal gear from world bosses, without the giant time sink of waves, it would make D3 an obsolete dungeon. Waves are fine....for the ultimate dungeon, if waves could be removed, but put in D4 (being D4'd styled not undead) I think that would be the best approch, but as of now, it appears not many people are going to D3 in 1.2. I truely hate waves, 10 minutes of sitting there just to run through the entire dungeon in the same time, it took us to do waves, but yes, I agree its necessary since as of now D3 is the Ultimate Dungeon.

 

[TinyTeaser]

you cant say that...waves is part of the dungeon....its the 'base' of it, aint you played other mmorpg's where you had to DO something first before entering a certain place...however alot of people have complained about it, so maybe the waves should only be added if you accept the quest IN the dungeon, not outside...

Also Zwieb i say you leave everything as it is... (not including the skeleton nurfs & and the bard/monk changes) but the others could be an idea for talents?

For example you spoke about the natures blessing long cd... well there could be a talent point to reduce the cd of it to 8secs?
Or if someone wants to play a more support/dps role for druid you could increase the damage of that other up comming summon the druid has, etc... (cant go into detail there since ive never seen it xD)

The game is really good as it is, and 1.2 its gonna get better ... only sugestions i'll give is to do something about the xp system, and you already said that somewhere . Also reduce the xp given from quest if they r higher than the quest level

Btw ihaz, you think d4 is gonna be some push over dungeon, you will NEED d3 gear to survive in it!

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Also, as of now, I think a big part of the Gaias community fears that D3 will become obsolete, due to the giant time sink into waves. If we can gain about equal gear from world bosses, without the giant time sink of waves, it would make D3 an obsolete dungeon.

Of course it will become obsolete. It's not endgame content. It's the case for all MMORPG with dungeons before end level. I don't see any problems here.
1.3 was thought of an update shipping the heroic mode of all dungeons until then, along with new skills (possibly we will also delay the talent feature to 1.3, I haven't decided about it yet). But we will concentrate on D4 and balancing it before we even think about it, as we simply do not have to time to do everything at once.

Waves are fine....for the ultimate dungeon

I don't see a problem with the waves. With D4 taking the place of the final dungeon, D3 will be merely a place to gear up - meaning the people won't be as strong as they are now when they enter it. Which means the waves will actually be challenging. The waves are basicly part of the first boss encounter. That's why you need to repeat them if you get defeated by the boss. I won't put the waves aside, simply because I feel that D3 would be way to short without them.

 

[run-to]

I’m very glad to receive such a good information that Skeletons will be nerfed, Monk and Bard will get more supports. Thanks a lot for your attention to these cases. I believe you can and also will choose the best way to the game to balance better. But I also have something to say about the game.

About the AI of the Nymph. It’s so advanced to devise a perfect AI. It must be take too much time to do that. But the AI is also hardly necessarily perfect as you want. And I remembered there was a Druid partner who give up the skill Nymph to becoming a Hi-Damage one. I asked him why did he give up the skill and how does he to heal the others just rely on Remedy and Blessing. He answered me that he couldn’t entrust the life of teammates to an AI. I agree with him soon. AI couldn’t always catch what we want to do in all kinds of complicated situations. So I hope we could do something more within commanding the Nymph when I was a Druid like the suggestion I had said. I wonder if you would agree with me too. However thinking about this again please, thanks.

About the Crucify and Edge. I knew that you said about the different between radius and the cross covered but it isn’t affect much since proficient in use. I also agree with Mr. Ihazdialup that Berserker could create Hi-damage to the main target(single target). But just as I said it’s very powerless to amounts of monsters. Because of Edge could hit about 350 to the main target without Cri and hit the others 180 only. Crucify could hit 400 to everyone at least without any Cri or extra. As a Heavy Armor role, Crusader should be good at defend and Berserker should be good at attack more. But now Crusader is more good to both attack and defend without thinking of any extra even when Berserker reduce their endurance to exchange more Damage. As for the channeling spell, sometimes it is not the bad all just like Remedy. I think Remedy is more useful to Heal because of cutting its effect to 5 parts and affect slowly. Certainly, the channeling spell Crucify makes Crusader stop to attack about 3s but it could be ignored to comparing the huge sum of AOE Damage.

Special thanks Mr. Ihazdialup and Mr. TinyTeaser to join the discussion.

 

[Ihazdialup]

well zweib, by obsolete I meant d3 will become an obsolete place to gear up, if we can spend half the time getting almost equivilant if not better gear from the world bosses, unless you truely are just going to fill majority of their drop tables with junk, forcing people to D3. But in that case the bosses would be pointless to an extent. Tiny-teaser, im basically maxed on 8/10 characters, I've ran D3 hundreds of times, I know D4 won't be a push over, but again, there are going to be World Bosses before D4 that are I imagine going to be stronger than shade, which of course I iamgine would drop d3 equivilant gear, making running D3 pointless due to the big time sink in waves. Sorry if i'm complaining, I'm just concerned about the fate of D3.

 

[run-to]

you cant say that...waves is part of the dungeon....its the 'base' of it, aint you played other mmorpg's where you had to DO something first before entering a certain place...however alot of people have complained about it, so maybe the waves should only be added if you accept the quest IN the dungeon, not outside...

Also Zwieb i say you leave everything as it is... (not including the skeleton nurfs & and the bard/monk changes) but the others could be an idea for talents?

For example you spoke about the natures blessing long cd... well there could be a talent point to reduce the cd of it to 8secs?
Or if someone wants to play a more support/dps role for druid you could increase the damage of that other up comming summon the druid has, etc... (cant go into detail there since ive never seen it xD)

The game is really good as it is, and 1.2 its gonna get better ... only sugestions i'll give is to do something about the xp system, and you already said that somewhere . Also reduce the xp given from quest if they r higher than the quest level

Btw ihaz, you think d4 is gonna be some push over dungeon, you will NEED d3 gear to survive in it!

I’m afraid I can’t agree with you that to short the CD of Blessing from 15 to 8 just by Talents. Every Talent could increase every skill by its own way. If a Talent makes a skill short is CD 50%. How does the else working? As the same to roles and skills, I think every choice should base the same value (including Talents) just for different field like more support or more DPS that you have said. And the same base is necessary for every skill to increase by Talent. So I hope the CD of Blessing must be short instead of increase by a Talent if Zwiebelchen thought it is real necessary.

About the waves I agree with you and Zwiebelchen completely for being a part of Dungeon 3 although I was hate it too.

 

[run-to]

well zweib, by obsolete I meant d3 will become an obsolete place to gear up, if we can spend half the time getting almost equivilant if not better gear from the world bosses, unless you truely are just going to fill majority of their drop tables with junk, forcing people to D3. But in that case the bosses would be pointless to an extent. Tiny-teaser, im basically maxed on 8/10 characters, I've ran D3 hundreds of times, I know D4 won't be a push over, but again, there are going to be World Bosses before D4 that are I imagine going to be stronger than shade, which of course I iamgine would drop d3 equivilant gear, making running D3 pointless due to the big time sink in waves. Sorry if i'm complaining, I'm just concerned about the fate of D3.

I think you're right. It's what I'm worrying about too.
So I suggested to divide the map to some area based on the Dungeons.

 

[run-to]

I think it should take every player more time to enjoy every part of the game including D1 & D2. They should get fun from the gain with the pain. Don't ignore any step during grows up. We could get more fun by grows step by step instead of take 2 hours to get a Lv 33 char with equips completed by D2.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

About the Crucify and Edge. I knew that you said about the different between radius and the cross covered but it isn’t affect much since proficient in use. I also agree with Mr. Ihazdialup that Berserker could create Hi-damage to the main target(single target). But just as I said it’s very powerless to amounts of monsters. Because of Edge could hit about 350 to the main target without Cri and hit the others 180 only. Crucify could hit 400 to everyone at least without any Cri or extra. As a Heavy Armor role, Crusader should be good at defend and Berserker should be good at attack more. But now Crusader is more good to both attack and defend without thinking of any extra even when Berserker reduce their endurance to exchange more Damage. As for the channeling spell, sometimes it is not the bad all just like Remedy. I think Remedy is more useful to Heal because of cutting its effect to 5 parts and affect slowly. Certainly, the channeling spell Crucify makes Crusader stop to attack about 3s but it could be ignored to comparing the huge sum of AOE Damage.

Hmm, you should also compare the cooldowns of both spells when comparing the damage. I don't have both values in my mind, but as far as I remember crucify had a 30 second cooldown, whereas heaven's edge had something like 15 seconds.

 

[Vestra]

Fuck this is so much reading and typing, if I wasn't lazy I would crack down on this shit.
Ihaz, when you're free some time, we'll do some intense testing on the ideas being brainstormed here.

 

[run-to]

Hmm, you should also compare the cooldowns of both spells when comparing the damage. I don't have both values in my mind, but as far as I remember crucify had a 30 second cooldown, whereas heaven's edge had something like 15 seconds.

I'm afraid you've made a mistake with your memory.
I have checked it just now that Crucify and Edge has the same CD in ver 1.1L3.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

I'm afraid you've made a mistake with your memory.
I have checked it just now that Crucify and Edge has the same CD in ver 1.1L3.

I'm gonna check the multipliers then. I agree that Crucify should not deal more damage than heaven's edge.

 

[Ihazdialup]

Yea I think they have the same cd too, mostly because of firelord, I can use heaven's or crucify before he spawns summonsagain, and have them both up just in time for the spawns. and Vestra, im free for the next 2 weeks.

 

[run-to]

Yea I think they have the same cd too, mostly because of firelord, I can use heaven's or crucify before he spawns summonsagain, and have them both up just in time for the spawns. and Vestra, im free for the next 2 weeks.

Yea it's the key to conquer the Fire Lord that how to dispose the summons he spawned again. In fact we usually use Heaven's Edge or Crucify twice during every spawn. Almost not to dodg the inferno made by Lady. The Tank even fight in ashes safely with 95FR and Killed the Fire Lord just by a Crusader and a Bishop.

 

[run-to]

I'm gonna check the multipliers then. I agree that Crucify should not deal more damage than heaven's edge.

I'm afraid to heard that and I would try to accept this brutal truth.

 

[Vestra]

Crucify deals jack shit damage to the minions. I really think the holy damage is giving you the illusion that it deals much, much more.

 

[run-to]

Crucify deals jack shit damage to the minions. I really think the holy damage is giving you the illusion that it deals much, much more.

Perhaps you're right. But I tried to compare about it bypass the holy extra already. And thinking about the holy extra singly. I really think holy extra should work to the Undead as a new effect like double the Cri and take them stun by Cri instead of over hi damage. I still think it would over power in D4 even. But I had said too much times about that. I think it would be nuisance so I will keep my opinion myself.

 

[S0ulseeker]

well zweib, by obsolete I meant d3 will become an obsolete place to gear up, if we can spend half the time getting almost equivilant if not better gear from the world bosses, unless you truely are just going to fill majority of their drop tables with junk, forcing people to D3. But in that case the bosses would be pointless to an extent. Tiny-teaser, im basically maxed on 8/10 characters, I've ran D3 hundreds of times, I know D4 won't be a push over, but again, there are going to be World Bosses before D4 that are I imagine going to be stronger than shade, which of course I iamgine would drop d3 equivilant gear, making running D3 pointless due to the big time sink in waves. Sorry if i'm complaining, I'm just concerned about the fate of D3.

I would just like to state that of course D3 will become obsolete. That's just the progression of the game. I remember when D2 was the hardest dungeon in the game and when it became obsolete and no one ran it anymore. That's inevitable. D3 won't be ran much once D4 is out. D4 will become the new D3 grind just as D2 was to D3 before D3 came out.

If Zwiebel does one day add the heroics in 1.3 then this would no longer be an issue since people could choose just which dungeon they would feel to run D1-D4 on heroic. They would all get play time again

 

[run-to]

I would just like to state that of course D3 will become obsolete. That's just the progression of the game. I remember when D2 was the hardest dungeon in the game and when it became obsolete and no one ran it anymore. That's inevitable. D3 won't be ran much once D4 is out. D4 will become the new D3 grind just as D2 was to D3 before D3 came out.

If Zwiebel does one day add the heroics in 1.3 then this would no longer be an issue since people could choose just which dungeon they would feel to run D1-D4 on heroic. They would all get play time again

Oh, Salute to the person who special thanked in the great game.
Welcome to enjoy the discussion.

 

[run-to]

A new situation about the Lieutenant

We find a new situation just now.
The Lieutenant will stun the players last a very long time when someone leave the game during stuning.

This is the replay about the Bug.

View attachment The new Bug about Lieutenant's stun.w3g

 

[Vestra]

Perhaps you're right. But I tried to compare about it bypass the holy extra already. And thinking about the holy extra singly. I really think holy extra should work to the Undead as a new effect like double the Cri and take them stun by Cri instead of over hi damage. I still think it would over power in D4 even. But I had said too much times about that. I think it would be nuisance so I will keep my opinion myself.

By all means, don't keep your opinions to yourself. Your english may not be very good but you've put a lot of effort into trying to balance skills. The effort alone is proof of how much you enjoy gaias. Since we all only seek to improve it any ideas you have are open for discussion.

 

[run-to]

A new situation about the Shade.
Ranger or Mage could attack the Shade like this and remove any shadow by threaten it. The shadow will try to attack, Run out, back and disappear.

Several unimportant reports.
Sometimes the orb effect would keep on another weapon when we change a weapon with an element addition.

If your saved materral stacked up to 2 then pick up new 1 and throw out all. Other player could pick up those 3 all.

Thank Mr. Vestra affirmed me. Well I’ll say all I know. Let’s enjoy the wonder game.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Thanks for those new reports... I've added those to my to-do file and make sure they will be fixed, especially the material duping bug.

 

[run-to]

Learn advance skill before complete the quest "Part II".

We could learn the advance skill when complete the step of "Report back to the Oracle", before "Report back to Colonel Brightblade".
According to describe, the skill is allowed to learn after "Part II" is completed.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

We could learn the advance skill when complete the step of "Report back to the Oracle", before "Report back to Colonel Brightblade".
According to describe, the skill is allowed to learn after "Part II" is completed.

I made this intentionally, so that people wouldn't need to have the tedious way back and forth once more.

 

[run-to]

I made this intentionally, so that people wouldn't need to have the tedious way back and forth once more.

Thants for these comfortable details.
By this cut way we could save 2000 exp more.
Why don't end the quest at this step.
And end the Quest "Part I" at the guild master too.