Sc Heroes

[PurplePoot]

We're talking 100% in the editor.

But again, MySpaceBar, please, post quotes, etc, to support your claims. (unless you mean that you just expect it)

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

I've made no real claims that require any further quoting (to my knowledge). I will elaborate if asked, however.

We are currently discussing 3 types of heroes. The wc3 kind, the sc kind, and the unknown sc2 kind that might be either one or a completely different kind. To have Just_Spectating come in and say heroes don't belong in starcraft is like fighting a war blindfolded.

 

[PurplePoot]

Nah, I agree with him that they don't belong in StarCraft (Melee), and it's not like fighting a war blindfolded at all. It is, however, a little silly to say that they don't belong in the editor. I'm sorta neutral as to whether they actually should be included, but I wouldn't go so far as to say they're out of place.

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

Nah, I agree with him that they don't belong in StarCraft (Melee), and it's not like fighting a war blindfolded at all. It is, however, a little silly to say that they don't belong in the editor. I'm sorta neutral as to whether they actually should be included, but I wouldn't go so far as to say they're out of place.

I'm not saying his view is wrong, I'm saying he failed to elaborate. He didn't even say melee or anything you've just said. He said heroes don't belong in starcraft, and that's not much to stem from.

 

[LordDz]

Then we can even say that the SC Hydralisk, Zergling and Marine didn't fit in WarcraftIII!!

They are there!

Should they really be allowed? It's a medieval Game.. Not space-combat...


Yes, or else we wouldn't have the Minigunners, survival, TDs, campaigns... etc. You get the deal.

Samething with the heroes.

 

[PurplePoot]

Then we can even say that the SC Hydralisk, Zergling and Marine didn't fit in WarcraftIII!!

They are there!

Should they really be allowed? It's a medieval Game.. Not space-combat...


Yes, or else we wouldn't have the Minigunners, survival, TDs, campaigns... etc. You get the deal.

Samething with the heroes.

(...)

Those were put in as easter eggs, I'm sure the community would've been fine without them (since when would they mess with TDs, Campaigns, etc anyways? If you really wanted them, you could always use imports)

Also, heroes can be triggered, omitting the UI.

 

[Just_Spectating]

i bet ther might be an importing system for sc2 just like warcraft. but considering the graphical changes, the model you will import will have to be better than outstanding and perfect for the graphics lol

 

[LordDz]

(...)

Those were put in as easter eggs, I'm sure the community would've been fine without them (since when would they mess with TDs, Campaigns, etc anyways? If you really wanted them, you could always use imports)

Also, heroes can be triggered, omitting the UI.

That was a bit ironic in that message that I wrote Just for saying that hero system should be in SC2.

 

[PurplePoot]

i bet ther might be an importing system for sc2 just like warcraft. but considering the graphical changes, the model you will import will have to be better than outstanding and perfect for the graphics lol

No reason why there wouldn't, you could even import sounds into StarCraft (plus everything else if you hacked it and made TCs)

That was a bit ironic in that message that I wrote Just for saying that hero system should be in SC2.

Then please use valid arguments -.-

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

That was a bit ironic in that message that I wrote Just for saying that hero system should be in SC2.

Yes, in the editor. If I see that in any melee or campaign gameplay, I'm making like Sansui's signature and bringing a shotgun and a chainsaw with me.

 

[Massive_attack]

you dont want campaing gameplay? but thats where heros are used best !

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

you dont want campaing gameplay? but thats where heros are used best !

Not wc3 style heroes. What they do best in starcraft is become woven into a custom game.

 

[PurplePoot]

In starcraft (orig) heroes worked quite nicely. (imo)

They were never stronger than before, so you always had to use them with caution, and they were always as powerful. In wc3 there was a bit of snowballing involved.

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

In starcraft (orig) heroes worked quite nicely. (imo)

They were never stronger than before, so you always had to use them with caution, and they were always as powerful. In wc3 there was a bit of snowballing involved.

Not to mention the "gravity" of the heroes, as in it pulled troops towards it and centralized gameplay from a generally macro game to a generally micro game. I forgot what I called the starcraft equivalent...

 

[iron_warrior]

i bet ther might be an importing system for sc2 just like warcraft. but considering the graphical changes, the model you will import will have to be better than outstanding and perfect for the graphics lol

Outstanding and perfect are not words that come to mind when thinking of SC2's graphics.

 

[PurplePoot]

They're damn good, in my opinion, and that's enough for me. (heck, bad graphics wouldn't make me not buy a game, but too good ones (so that I would need a hardware upgrade) would.)

 

[Moontraveler]

Really graphics to me don't matter. Heck I still play my favorite SNES game currently... (And I don't get how Morrowind is ugly to most people...)

 

[Massive_attack]

CnC1 and Red Alert 1 are the lowest of the low for me, i cant bare playing those games.

Anything after that graphics wise is fine to me. so long as its a GOOD GAME.

 

[Gilles]

From what I've read from blizzard posting in their own forums, it sounds like they are just making the editor better. I would guess Heroes like in WC3 would be included. They have said a lot of units not included in the game are in the WE (ie. the old SC1 units). I can get a link if anyone wants, but I would guess most people have read them if they post in here.

 

[PurplePoot]

They didn't guarantee they all are, only some, but I'm personally hoping for all.

 

[Massive_attack]

Yeah, finaly me and poot agree, all would be the best.

 

[Gilles]

Oh, well there is my poor reading comprehension! I read too fast, and don't bother looking things over sometimes. Especially when it's as large as the update forum on the Blizz site (that thing would take a good couple of hours or more to read)!

 

[Jaakko]

Heroes don't fit in Starcraft, they fit in Warcraft. I'm glad that there will be no heroes in melee but still it could be fun to play some custom multiplayer games with heroes. And Starcraft DotA could be fun to see also.

And oh now that I mentioned DotA I hate the banlist thing. I had one game I died a lot and then somebody goes ban me for suiciding and almost everybody kick me out of public games though I would be better than many players that are not banned.

EDIT: Just a minute ago a noob host kicked me for good money creeping. He was a noob and propably just wanted my money. If my team would have wanted me to help them they should have just asked instead of kicking me. What noobs and lack of communication. I gave him advice at one point but he was just totally silent and I was the only one in the team saying miss and warning other team players. The others helped me in no way.

 

[Massive_attack]

Look if they do it right and dont make heroes the central thing then i dont see whats wrong?

 

[PurplePoot]

Don't play DotA. Problem solved. (99% of the time anyways)

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

Look if they do it right and dont make heroes the central thing then i dont see whats wrong?

"Doing it right" is as generic an answer as you can get. "If they do it right and make it so it's not evil, I don't see what's wrong with killing your parents."

Guess what? That's the problem. There IS no way to do it right. Heroes are the bane of all macro.

 

[PurplePoot]

Coming from a person who wants normal units to level up so you have to micro them a lot.

I smell irony -.-

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

Coming from a person who wants normal units to level up so you have to micro them a lot.

I smell irony -.-

Irony's my job. Go do your skepticism or something.
Veterancy is a widespread system that effects all units, as well as has a 2 level limit. I honestly doubt it could be used efficiently as for all units, but it would be nice to see it pop up as a terran thing, or an infantry thing.
Heroes, on the other hand, are units that you can only build 3 of, as well as have 4 abilities that are potentially disastrous. They replace the WMDs of macro RTS's.

 

[PurplePoot]

Except the WMDs are hard to aim (against units, they move unless you're good) and time (get hit by anti-WMDs in some games, your ghost gets killed if you mess up in SC, etc), while heroes are not

But notice how you're advocating macro above, yet micro for the veterancy.

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

Except the WMDs are hard to aim (against units, they move unless you're good) and time (get hit by anti-WMDs in some games, your ghost gets killed if you mess up in SC, etc), while heroes are not

But notice how you're advocating macro above, yet micro for the veterancy.[/QUOTE]
1. I am not. While veterancy may make a game completely reliant on micro if all the units have it, if it is limited to, say, infantry units, or the terrans, it should not be a problem.
2. Even if I AM a hypocrite, what the fuck does it have to do with anything? At least I let it be known that I am off-topic when I exploit. This is an obvious tu quoque.

 

[Need_O2]

They will make mdx work on scII I hope or with a converter OR they make same models on SCII with higher quality there is a zergling hydralisk and terran in war3 as you know

 

[PurplePoot]

I was just asking how you can advocate one but not the other, MySpaceBar. Nothing more.

I'm not saying I like heroes im melee, by the way

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

I was just asking how you can advocate one but not the other, MySpaceBar. Nothing more.

And I am just answering. And more.

 

[PurplePoot]

The hydralisk is the only wc3 model that is even 1% like the starcraft version, sadly =( (to Need_O2)

MySpace: I guess this is just one of those things we'll just have to agree to disagree on

 

[Gilles]

The marine isn't? I thought it was.

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

MySpace: I guess this is just one of those things we'll just have to agree to disagree on

Like 99.9% of everything that I debate on. Meh. I'm naturally confrontational.

 

[PurplePoot]

The marine (to me, anyways) looks really inaccurate. (compare it to the sc sprite and sc2 model)

 

[Just_Spectating]

the warcraft sc models are 3dimensional so it makes the units look crappier, but really nothing looks like the sc vers. The hydralisk has a Bone Tail if you look closely ingame of sc, but the hydra is prolly the most looking one.

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

The marine (to me, anyways) looks really inaccurate. (compare it to the sc sprite and sc2 model)

The gauss rifle was supposed to look like a handheld gattling gun. In wc3, it just looks stupid.

 

[Need_O2]

The hydralisk is the only wc3 model that is even 1% like the starcraft version, sadly =( (to Need_O2)

MySpace: I guess this is just one of those things we'll just have to agree to disagree on

I know but size of this game will be very big I guess. I think war3 models will make only %2-3 size increase in game. I said I only hope hope is good try it.

 

[PurplePoot]

And imagine how long it would take them...

I don't want the game coming out in 2010 or 2012 or something -.-

Also, I think sc2 is about twice as many average polies, meaning probably about the same size, (For unit models, anyways) due to the vast decrease in actual number of models.

 

[Gilles]

I am pretty sure it come out in 2008 winter or early 2009. We all know Blizzard likes to push dates back more and more though!

 

[PurplePoot]

2008 or 2009 if they don't remodel all of wc3, Gilles , which is what I was saying.

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

It has to be 2008, imo. I'm pretty sure the terran tech tree has already been created, and we've seen plenty of protoss units.

 

[PurplePoot]

Protoss Tech Tree has been out for awhile, same as Terran. They're going to have another Q&A and Site Update tomorrow, hope they bring in Zerg

 

[LordDz]

Heroes don't fit in Starcraft, they fit in Warcraft. I'm glad that there will be no heroes in melee but still it could be fun to play some custom multiplayer games with heroes. And Starcraft DotA could be fun to see also.

And oh now that I mentioned DotA I hate the banlist thing. I had one game I died a lot and then somebody goes ban me for suiciding and almost everybody kick me out of public games though I would be better than many players that are not banned.

EDIT: Just a minute ago a noob host kicked me for good money creeping. He was a noob and propably just wanted my money. If my team would have wanted me to help them they should have just asked instead of kicking me. What noobs and lack of communication. I gave him advice at one point but he was just totally silent and I was the only one in the team saying miss and warning other team players. The others helped me in no way.

I was in a game where a little 10 year old threathed to ban us if we attacked him -.- Remove the damn banlist! '' You don't got map! I BAN!'' But.. It's a reinstalled computer ! >.<

 

[NoNZealot]

Lol I've seen a dota for sc once. Dota people will never stop... Never and ever!

 

[LordDz]

Lol I've seen a dota for sc once. Dota people will never stop... Never and ever!

Gief! Now you almost inspired me to do one myself. Or a tower defense, or a RPG.. Hmm..

 

[Moontraveler]

Wasn't the Starcraft DotA called Aeon of Strife? <_< >_>;;... (I always wanted to try it...)

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

Wasn't the Starcraft DotA called Aeon of Strife? <_< >_>;;... (I always wanted to try it...)

No, DotA is a type of AoS. Also, there is an actual DotA created for starcraft.