- Joined
- Jun 3, 2005
- Messages
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(42 ratings)
It's the 2nd time actually, but the last one was more subjective (http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/maps-564/rise-winterchill-0-66c-81952/index10.html#post2107565) - tho many issues me and water addressed remain unfixed/unsolved. Get your ass up!@Frotty: Thanks for taking the time to draw up that list;
Yes, I noticed that most of them are your own and took a look at them too - is there a way to retrieve them from you with description (without ripping them from the map) - they are mostly sweet, but as for the mentioned Spells maybe a help message or textag would be helpful the first few times (if help activated), telling you what the actual effect is.Missing visuals: I make them myself and it's time consuming/difficult to come up with appropriate new effects. I agree more could be done here, but in some cases (Poison, Spinelock, Diversion) an effect alone won't be sufficient to convey the mechanic. I'll work on it though!
This adresses also another problem I have with items in RoW.[*]The subsection of the shop in which to find an item isn't listed, as the -i command will either buy it for you or tell you the cost. It would be neat to have it select the item in the marketplace if the marketplace is open though!
You didn't get it yet?[*]Shadowdancer's movement: How do I reproduce the problem?
Well I didn't know void masochist don't work with nearby troops (how should I?) but even without enemies around it's doesn't seem to have an effect.[*]Void Masochists and Moon Wells: I've never had a problem with them? Note that they change colour and can't regain mana while enemy troops are nearby (they can still heal with the mana they have though).
Well I don't know them exactly, but some heros ae really strong, especially with just attribute bonus.[*]Balance: If you have balance concerns feel free to voice them.
I don't know who Flisk is, but another spell that seems totally useless to me are the poison bombs from the assasin.[*]Other roles: In 66e+ (on the homepage), there is a new support item, and Flisk's new ultimate is a support ability. The biggest issue for support is the lack of viable item options; resolving this is a big priority of mine.
Well an instant teleportation is a very hard getaway chance.[*]Lightning Rod: Lightning Rod is my calculated attempt at introducing a feature which players might actually incorporate into their gameplay. It doesn't easily lead to snowballing for teams which use it (so it won't ruin pubs), but it does provide a tactical advantage. It is relatively recent, so I don't know how players have reacted to it.
Added you on steam.@Frotty: I'm on Xfire and Steam as "Softmints", but Hive PMs are more reliable if you want to arrange something. I'd say I could drum up a few players for a match in the near future if you're interested.
I know (obviously) and I am also using this most the time, but if I don't buy the recipe first, but the recipeitems first to get at least some effects, and e.g. I already have 2-3 recipe items and my inventory is full, if I buy the recipe even if all the recipe items are in my inventory, it drops on the ground.More stuff:
- Recipe dropping: When you click a recipe in RoW, it scans your inventory for components, then checks if you have enough gold to buy the rest. If you have enough gold and/or components, it completes the item. This is important! If I bought an Ivory Band recipe as part of my starting items, I could then activate the recipe item in-lane once I have enough gold to complete it without a shopping trip. I consider this a healthy strategic option, so I have no intention of adding auto-activating recipes.
Good choice, and thanks for sticking with the map for so long and being an active voice.Today I played Fae the dreamweaver:
I agree. The screen filter is very annoying, although I think it's been removed (Not really sure about its official status), though if so it still occurs if one is plane shifted while veiled. That's a bug I've seen a few times. If the screen filter isn't intended to be gone, then it only works when veiled and lasts forever unless veiled without Plane Shift on. Not sure if Soft knows about this.Plane Shift turns the screen green, banished units are transparent --> for some units it's badly visible whether they are banished like Scandal Banshee. More annoying is the fact that it deactivates the user's ui --> cannot see tooltips or health bars.
It's not random. It's quite easy to surmise the purpose of a haze trail when you see it as an enemy or an ally. Save a fleeing ally, simple damage, block off escape, get closer to an enemy, chase an enemy, last hit a fleeing enemy... There are many uses, but few are indistinguishable to one another given that the enemy in question understands Fae. I agree there is a control problem in Fae's facing direction when using the trail, though. I'm not sure if there's a way to better control facing direction when on it for emerald wing. I may just be missing a neat trick, but it seems as if Fae turns wherever she wants sometimes when you teleport on the haze.Haze: ... Apart from the randomness this causes gameplay-wise and control-wise by instant teleports, this ability seems to be absolutely mandatory for the hero since all other abilities require Fae to enter close combat.
Fae has haze trail, why would she need another ability to wipe a wave out?Emerald Wing: Cannot be used against minions.
Certainly. I can't actually think of a time when it would be a good idea to put all your points into Emerald Wing. The mana cost is manageable in the early game so long as you don't level it past the 2nd level. Once your mana pool gets larger, it becomes beneficial to do so. Putting a point in a skill always comes at a cost early on, regardless of mana cost increases. A point in one skill is a point not put in another, thus an opportunity cost is incurred. The existence of negative effects for leveling a skill early is not unique to RoW, it's in every AoS. If you wanted an example of an ability that levels poorly, Ogake's impale would probably be the prime example (depending on how you play Ogake, for me it is terrible to level), and even that has benefits to leveling it in the late game.Mana costs climb ridiculously. You have to power up your max mana in order to keep up, else the leveling of this ability has a negative effect.
Would have to disagree. You've already demonstrated a reason why you can't 'carelessly' throw out Emerald wing: The mana cost. You need to take care in aiming and in finding the right opportunity. Also, it's trite to throw out the auto-attack facing mechanism on an ability that aims perpendicular to that. Especially when you need to reach a sweet spot in between the range where an enemy can simply take a step to the left (Ground they need to cover to do that lessens as Fae is closer, trigonometry and whatnot) and dodge entirely and the range wherein they can move with the wave until it ends.Facing-dependent abilities are highly careless. No precise aiming and the unit standard behavior auto-faces attack targets for example.
Once more, Fae has Haze. Even with its sharp damage it is still effective against troop waves, albeit perhaps not early on, but it shouldn't be that effective against troops early on anyway. Not to mention plane shift can make the troops walk right past your wave and into a tower's range. My main criticism of this ability is that I rarely think twice about it, even before it was passive. Just an added effect for proximity, but not a good enough reward to encourage proximity on its own.Prismatic Dust:
The dust works on minions but Emerald Wing cannot transform it on them because it does not hit them. The revelation effect itself does not help against minions. You can trigger it with Haze or Plane Shift. Anyway, the 1% damage per second for 5 seconds has no worth there -> ability is completely useless against minions. I do not know what the mana costs in tooltip refer to.
Not necessarily. It can both contain and rebuke. You can block escape without going into the middle of combat since the circle is large enough to block entire alleyways and lanes. When you are using it to contain, it becomes a double-edged sword, a fatal one if not used right. You become a stationary, easy target for lots of abilities, especially dangerous since Fae is so squishy. This isn't a bad thing, if you were implying that it was. It encourages its use in a team context and for one to think before making oneself vulnerable to attack.This ability requires Fae to take a central position within the combat and stay there for a while.
The heat of combat can cause even the best of players to unintentionally walk into it, especially if it appears right in front of you out of nowhere as it usually does. Your teammates can very easily take advantage of a wall of knockback with their own knockbacks. This is easily seen with a Fae/Geo combo. Furthermore, what would be the incentive to not touch the edge if not for the knockback? It provides excellent zoning beyond the physical block with the knockback than without, providing better shots for heroes like the Skirmisher, who want to get the enemies as clumped as possible for Beatdown.I do not get why there is a mediocre knockback effect when touching the border because without the help of an ally, there is no reason why the enemies (expect minions) would step on it unless they wanted to intentionally abuse it (jumping to Fae or escaping in reverse).
It's not random.
Fae has haze trail, why would she need another ability to wipe a wave out?
Putting a point in a skill always comes at a cost early on, regardless of mana cost increases. A point in one skill is a point not put in another, thus an opportunity cost is incurred. The existence of negative effects for leveling a skill early is not unique to RoW, it's in every AoS.
Also, it's trite to throw out the auto-attack facing mechanism on an ability that aims perpendicular to that.
The heat of combat can cause even the best of players to unintentionally walk into it, especially if it appears right in front of you out of nowhere as it usually does. Your teammates can very easily take advantage of a wall of knockback with their own knockbacks. This is easily seen with a Fae/Geo combo.
Furthermore, what would be the incentive to not touch the edge if not for the knockback?
If you're referring to predicting the damage outcome for Haze, then I'd say this is incorrect. Haze is very easy to hit if that is your intention. If you're referring to comboing with Emerald Wing and knowing the damage outcome of that, that is more random due to the difficulties with facing direction on the trail, which I think is a problem. Everything you cite has nothing to do with randomness, rather people's ability to use Haze itself.Badly controlable. I count this to randomness because of the lack of calculability.
You start on the haze trail when you cast it. The only reason you would be off it is if you intentionally walked off it. The animation for haze trail is quite clear, it's not hard to tell when you are on or off it. So the only control problem I can think of is if you play with the screen zoomed in to the default and have to move the screen around to be able to see the whole trail (And only when its leveled up far enough to have that range) when seeing the whole trail is even necessary.If you stand a marginally small distance away from the trail and issue an order on the other end of the trail, the hero will choose to walk instead.
Be aware of where your hero is; be aware of where the trail is.The pathfinding does not recognize the teleport possibility.
Becomes more difficult, not impossible. It also becomes more difficult to target people when they become adept at dodging. Is input from the target being critical to the difference between a hit and miss bad as well?Enemies cannot target you...
This is bad? Fae is squishy. If you're using Haze for poking, then usually you just jump in and jump out after casting or attacking as you desire. Why you would even stay on it just to jump around arbitrarily doesn't make sense to me. Doing so could very easily land you in a terrible position once the duration is up. It is better to teleport where you want for however long you want within the duration constraint and teleport to safety after rather than to waste time clicking random spots on the trail. There's not much you can actually do while doing that beyond casting abilities that require no mouse input, which would be a huge waste anyway....while you are on the trail because you can jump arbitrarily and instantly here and there.
So what is to stop Fae from immediately dominating a lane by just putting points into Haze and Emerald Wing? Soft already made Haze sharp damage for this very purpose, making Emerald Wing hit creeps makes little sense, especially after that.To increase flexibility, combat-wise and in hero building, so it's worth to have alternative leveling patterns.
Not hard to hit both troops and heroes during the laning phase, and this statement only really rings with any truth during laning. Haze has a rather large width for a line ability, and it stays after its use. It still damages any enemy that walks on it that has not yet been damaged by it. Also,there's nothing forced about the situation you describe. If the Fae player wants to use her abilities for other purposes, she can decide to do so at the cost of being less effective at pushing. And if she wants both, she can lane with an ally, which she is very good at doing given her doubling as a supportive hero.Also, having only one damage spell with higher cooldown forces you to hit and use it for this purpose.
You shouldn't stand there and be attacked by minions even if you have a good auto attack unless it's late in the game and you have life leech. What's wrong with using phase shift in this situation? And why are you in this situation in the first place? Troops don't target you en-messe unless there are no other targets in range. Occasionally a fel hound or lava spawn will target you because you're in range while a huntress isn't, but using any ability to stop that is going overboard.Fae is not an auto-attacker, so has no option but to retreat/phase shift when targeted by minions when Haze is on cooldown.
You come to understand how they act when you play the game more, I suppose. I haven't had major problems with them in a while. The creeps are a different story.The minions are already problematic as they are.
Why not say Prismatic Dust is a noob trap then? The opportunity cost of leveling that first is very apparent. Or perhaps even Plane Shift. Even Haze, since you'll be putting all your power in one skill with a long cooldown simply for the base damage, since the stat multiplier increase means more later on. There are going to be negative effects for leveling your abilities in a poor order, and that's in every AoS. The mana cost increase is to encourage point spread rather than placing all of your points in one ability. And if you were able to manage the cost of the ability with the same stat increase, Emerald Wing would pretty much destroy anybody in the early game if you get hit by it. Being able to cast it consistently that early on at is ridiculous.But here it's very direct and a noob trap. The mana cost increase does not match the stats gained from the level up.
Where did I say that? I stated that it aims perpendicular to your facing direction, and, by extension, the target of an auto attack. That was not metaphorical, and I did not imply that you wanted to change the shape either. I was explaining where the precision comes into play after you implied that the ability requires little or no precision, and thus can be thrown out carelessly with a similar or comparable effect. If this wasn't your reasoning, then I apologize for my misconception.It aims at bad control? I am not saying to change the shape or orthogonal direction but either select a target point or disable auto-attack.
It is a skill you learn over time. Also, facing is not the only component to aiming this ability. Distance is as well, which I went into. There is also the use of physical obstacles when aiming it. For example, if someone is dancing around a tower, it becomes more difficult to dodge Emerald Wing because they lose options in directions to move in. This ability is very easy to dodge if you just throw it out whenever and never set yourself up with opportunities to use it.Facing-dependent spells are wishy-washy because you do not set the facing precisely.
I've never seen anyone be surrounded by heroes, and I don't know how anyone manages to get surrounded by minions, but even if you do Plane Shift is a more viable option than Emerald Wing in both cases, not to mention Emerald Wing will do extra damage after its use. Non-elemental spawn minions will move back to their original path, ignoring enemies because they cannot attack, thus the surround is broken. And if you're surrounded by heroes, then you're always going to get multiple hits regardless of your facing direction. You may even hit all of them. I don't feel that cooking up a situation that is less than convenient but may as well never occur is a good slight against the aiming style either.Imagine Fae is surrounded -> you have no space to click to align the angle other than pointing the surrounding units. If you click outside, Fae will struggle and end up with a random direction. The wc3 pathfinding tries to circumvent obstacles and therefore steadily turns the moving unit.
There is no initial knockback unless Fae gets the wall directly on you. I was referring to people moving into it or being pushed into it. Nobody has instant reflexes. It will always take some amount of time to change course. It's not as if you need to get it directly on them for them to run into it. In fact, they might not even see you if you use it from behind a corner. I can assure you that even skilled players knock into it with Fae players that are good at distance calculation. It doesn't even require you to walk into it to be useful. Other heroes can knock you into it as well.An initial knockback effect is another thing. Else it's a noob trap.
No, but I explained the merits to having one, and the merits lost by just making it a physical block, going into more detail than the use stated above. The only reason for its removal would be if the knockback is useless or overpowered in concept. It isn't, and that's been demonstrated multiple times in games.Do you need one? Just make it a barrier.
Is it facing direction now? Last time I played it was based on the angle of your hero to the area you targetted.Cinder: ... The other balls inherit the angle of the caster's facing.
Haven't played Namek in quite a while, but I'm pretty sure it still casts the abilities even if you have one health left. If that was changed, then this might be a artifact of the previous way it was dealt with.Mana cost and cooldown are still charged when you do not have enough life to cast. Same for Lava Lance.
Starting point is where you casted it, the line is between you and the cast point, it extends out further the further you are away from the cast point.Lava Lance: According to the tooltip, I thought the line would spawn at my position after the delay. So I wondered about the length and offset. The starting point is not mentioned.
If you're referring to comboing with Emerald Wing and knowing the damage outcome of that, that is more random due to the difficulties with facing direction on the trail, which I think is a problem.
Do you expect every encounter with the same hero to be the same, or that they ought to be the same? Decisions of circumstance are largely made on the fly in RoW.
You start on the haze trail when you cast it. The only reason you would be off it is if you intentionally walked off it.
Becomes more difficult, not impossible. It also becomes more difficult to target people when they become adept at dodging. Is input from the target being critical to the difference between a hit and miss bad as well?
while you are on the trail because you can jump arbitrarily and instantly here and there.
So what is to stop Fae from immediately dominating a lane by just putting points into Haze and Emerald Wing? Soft already made Haze sharp damage for this very purpose, making Emerald Wing hit creeps makes little sense, especially after that.
Not hard to hit both troops and heroes during the laning phase, and this statement only really rings with any truth during laning.
It doesn't matter if her auto-attack isn't up to par with the enemy
Why not say Prismatic Dust is a noob trap then?
Even Haze, since you'll be putting all your power in one skill with a long cooldown simply for the base damage, since the stat multiplier increase means more later on.
I was explaining where the precision comes into play after you implied that the ability requires little or no precision, and thus can be thrown out carelessly with a similar or comparable effect.
I can assure you that even skilled players knock into it with Fae players that are good at distance calculation.
Moving on the trail is simple. Be aware of your own hero's position. Use it when your hero is on it. Changing facing direction is a problem with it, general movement is not. That the A.I doesn't move on the trail for you is a matter of convenience, just as a hero not following a target that has gone out of sight with an attack command is a matter of convenience.I am refering to general movement on the trail, as well as facing direction as well as coming in contact with foes.
What are "Unplanned events?" Missing an ability? Getting ganked? Getting cut off in escape? A hero not going where you expected him to? Learning curve issues, such as the effects of poison and other status effects?I expect the players to be able to pick reasonable decisions from the given data and to diminish the occurence of luck, meaning the consequences of unplanned events or what could not have been acquired by the public information.
Click on it, then click where you want to teleport. It's really not as difficult as you're making it sound, especially if you zoom out further. Personally I play at zoom 3000-3350, and can't do very well with the default, although others seem to have a different preference.Or you were knocked away or lured by standard behavior but I was not even talking about Fae. Allies can use the trail too.
Don't know why you think this is bad either. Lava lance is not a very good example, given that the trail and the lance are both linear, but that's a triviality. If it becomes such a big problem to hit Fae on the trail, then save your abilities for when it is over. Fae can't keep it up at all times, and it's usually used for poking purposes in lane anyway, so it may not even be fruitful for her to stay on the trail closest to you for longer than it takes to cast her other abilities. Fae can also negate a well-aimed physical ability by using a well-timed plane shift. The fact that her abilities give her an edge in dodging is to be expected.The difference is that walking is a gradual effect and missiles are usually much faster. It is not necessarily about hitting an enemy but cutting off the path, therefore limiting their possibilities. If Namek for example casted Lava Lance towards Fae on the trail, Fae could dodge by porting away and immediately return to the previous location within a split second because Lava Lance does not leave an area effect. Without losing anything, Fae negated the situation and puts the enemy in a rather serious bind.
Then wait for a better opportunity. Not every point in time will it be good to throw out an ability at someone. This is something you can take into account. You can also take into account the way that enemies tend to clump on the trail in teamfights. Regardless of their teleporting, throwing an ability that can cover a lot of ground on the haze trail (Such as an ability that moves in a similar fashion) can also be an opportunity.Here, I was referring to the potency of cheap and consecutive jumping from the perspective of the adversary, they can hardly take it into account.
A spammy Emerald wing, albeit less powerful in singular use, is still going to have a huge effect on the enemy's ability to lane as a less spammy, very powerful with a managable mana cost would. Missing Emerald Wing stops mattering as much, one must expect to dodge it more, Fae will be able to zone you away at almost every moment except for after a successful dodge just by moving closer, etc... This ability burns mana, after all.Casting both Haze and Emerald Wing to push the lane would be very costy. But of course you may consider having Haze deal less damage when introducing another damage effect on the hero. I never said that Emerald Wing should deal that much either. A more spammy variant would fit it though.
For clarity's sake, when I refer to creeps I mean the neutral hostile forest creatures that give global XP and join lanes. They are bugged in that they have a tendency to follow people across the entire map when they're supposed to be constrained to their general area. Troops/minions are the spawn monsters. Anyway, troops don't do any zoning if you have your own troops nearby. Staying with your own troop wave and not taking arbitrary damage that could have been dealt to your own troops is not unique to RoW, although the troops in RoW are stronger than in most AoS's, so their ability to force you back is more pronounced. However it is there in every other AoS as well. And your damage compared to the enemy wave's damage only becomes pertinent to pushing if your own troops are dealing lesser damage because you have less of them. In a fight that is equal or favored towards you, your damage will cause the wave to win, given efficient target firing. You only really use an ability to push a wave when you need to hold a push back or if it becomes worth it to strengthen your push. This is why I brought up zoning away your enemy, since they too determine the outcome of a fight between troops. If you are the only one that can auto attack, you'll push even if the enemy does more damage than you.As you have said yourself, unique circumstances are generated on a frequent basis in RoW. Neither was I primarily aiming at laning phase nor pushing. The fact remains that you are in trouble with Haze on cooldown. The minions/creeps zone you out or deal significant damage if you cannot get rid of them.
Rather specific situation to be referring to on a change that would increase Fae's pushing ability greatly. Emerald Wing only affects units that have a mana pool. It'll hit the voidmasochist, for example. I'm pretty sure the hounds have no mana pool, and won't be affected. Heroes that have less mana than the max potential damage of Emerald Wing will also receive only their mana remaining as damage rather than the max. So it becomes less effective as a damage ability when the enemy is out of mana entirely.Up to par with the minions rather. Just wondering if Hakkar's hounds receive damage through Emerald Wing because those would pose a threat to inflexible damage output.
Hm... Perhaps so. Although I'm not sure how you'd balance this. As I've explained, Emerald wing is already effective in lane at level 2, when its mana cost is manageable to general consistency in casting. The later levels can wipe large portions of enemy mana given the base increase and the stat modifier. Maybe reduce the base damage per level, increase the cooldown slightly. That's just for the early game. There are more purposes to the mana increase than just the encouragement. It also scales the cost of abilities into the late game, such that mana doesn't become incredibly arbitrary later on.Concentrating your power should have its raison d'être too. You lack flexibility and have a single cooldown to act but you get superior in your field of choice. Spreading your points is already encouraged by obtaining said advantages.
Ah. My mistake then.Do not quite get this. I was claiming the opposite.
Not really sure what you're saying either. Is the target point the point you are moving to or trying to target? Seizing the whole range of what values? Distance, angles, time taken to set up a shot?The angle is very important which is why you require precision in aiming, which is impeded by the control. Unlike relocating one's position by walking, self-rotation seizes the whole range of values in the blink of an eye. When choosing a direction via a far away target point, the angle difference becomes much smaller.
It becomes difficult to change your direction when a point in your immediate vicinity in the desired direction is unavailable. Other than that, you can aim without Warcraft's pathing being a problem just by moving to a point that is very close to your hero. You can even do this when trees and other doodads are in the way, units in very close range of you become a problem since they take up a range of angles you might want to turn to, but targeting them directly only turns you in one direction. I'd say that is a problem with this style. Wouldn't call it a fatal one, however.The surrounding scenario was obviously exaggerated but the unit tries to circumvent obstacles, therefore changes direction.
Certainly, however even within the same style, different techniques are better for different abilities.And Emerald Wing is not the only facing-dependent ability.
Alyssandra is probably the best player skill-wise, or at least, she was back 6 months ago. I recently reinstalled WC after a 6 month hiatus a few weeks ago. I think she's posted in this thread earlier. She currently goes by Separation @USeast. Not sure what server you're on, but most of the RoW community gathers on the USeast server, though many are still European. Dracula(CotN) is very good, especially in theorycrafting. Probably the best one to talk to about the game mechanics. TheGamaniac, Hector(CotN), Oxygen, Kurogamon, Myself (Sounds kind of pretentious, but I think it's true, relative to others in the community and how I do ingame), Egotenks, Grumbletok, Calyp-Solarus, Renamon, azer0t, Carmilla(CotN), arvay6, Softmints himself... The community used to be larger than it is now, since most of the people in it are still High school/College age and thus have studies to tend to in the cooler seasons.Which players do you consider skilled?
Generally we meet up in Channel Chasm @USeast and talk about the game a bit. Soft also encourages people to tell him their ideas for changes and whatnot. The game is in beta, so Soft usually tries out suggestions if they're popular or pique his interest to see if they work out.I am also not sure how you would evaluate what is overpowered as the game is scenario-dependent,
There's an adage that people say in games with unequal teams: Numbers always win. It's usually true.... we often had the feeling the game was decided because of the missing ability to push when outnumbered
Players have the option to surrender (type "-gg") if the game's direction is apparent. Games of comparable skill usually drag on to the end.or at once in late game (it is always dragged into the high-end phase).
I'd say the advantage in a game can switch very quickly if a team falls apart and gets wiped when they initially had that advantage. However, recognizing different phases of the game is not so difficult, with the early game being made up mostly of 2-man ganks and getting your hero together, mid-game you start to see people spilling over into the other lanes more often and pushing if a rival is losing badly or absent, late-game you see the teams come together for the hard pushes and to stop from being defeated one by one by a more cohesive group.The game flow is rather unapparent.
That the A.I doesn't move on the trail for you is a matter of convenience, just as a hero not following a target that has gone out of sight with an attack command is a matter of convenience.
What are "Unplanned events?"
If it becomes such a big problem to hit Fae on the trail, then save your abilities for when it is over.
Fae can also negate a well-aimed physical ability by using a well-timed plane shift.
Missing Emerald Wing stops mattering as much, one must expect to dodge it more, Fae will be able to zone you away at almost every moment except for after a successful dodge just by moving closer, etc... This ability burns mana, after all.
Anyway, troops don't do any zoning if you have your own troops nearby. Staying with your own troop wave and not taking arbitrary damage that could have been dealt to your own troops is not unique to RoW, although the troops in RoW are stronger than in most AoS's, so their ability to force you back is more pronounced.
I'm pretty sure the hounds have no mana pool, and won't be affected.
Not really sure what you're saying either. Is the target point the point you are moving to or trying to target? Seizing the whole range of what values? Distance, angles, time taken to set up a shot?
However, recognizing different phases of the game is not so difficult
And if you stop suddenly because your order is cancelled, you obviously did not. Also, convenience is correct. It is prefaced with "a matter of..." This only denotes subject and thus includes the negation.Inconvenience* for the chasing player. In an AoS, you should always know what your hero is up to. If you follow an enemy through the woods, you obviously wanted to do so.
Emerald wing is one of the slowest abilities in the game, and it's going to miss just about every time if all you're doing is blind firing. I still don't understand why you're even referring to this as a core problem with the game. Hitting anything without intent is rare, and will actually hurt your team if the ability also affects allies. It is even less likely that this hit will even become meaningful in the scheme of the game. The fact that one can pick a spot on the map and there being an arbitrarily small chance of hitting the enemy says nothing about mechanics. Especially in a game where target input is crucial.None of what you mentioned. It is unplanned for example if you skillshoot a creep and it pierces right through, extending through the sight-blocking trees behind it and hitting another player at the backside although the attacker had no clue an enemy was standing there. The occurence of a blind positive effect.
Yes, and I went over other heroes as well. You yourself also said that one ought to be aware of what their hero is up to.Again, Fae is not the only one who can use the trail. The whole team can port to the front, throw some instant ability and immediately head back.
Untrue. As stated before, if everyone is moving to stand on the trail, which it would be good to note is a line, enemies can set up shots with abilities that target in a similar fashion. For example, Rage Winterchill's ice triumvirate can be casted on the trail when one is perpendicular to it. Everyone standing on the trail is going to be hit regardless of where they teleport. They have to get off of it. Once more, why would anyone spam teleport on the trail for the sake of it? Line up your shot and get back when you're done or you might be stuck in a position you don't want to be in when the trail ends. Enemies can save their shots for after the trail is over. You don't have to throw out your abilities if there isn't a good opportunity to use them. This ability also clumps people up if the whole team is using it. This can very easily be abused by many heroes(Namely, Abraxxus).Surely, but that activates cooldown, costs mana. Once the trail is there, the teleports are free and can be spammed all the way. I am just saying it's heavy because all the allies can use this service.
This doesn't make sense. Again, aimed abilities don't require skill from just one player. The target also has decisions to make that are important to determining whether or not the shot hits. Fae's Emerald wing is very easy to dodge if the Fae player is unskilled. They'll consistently miss and be ineffective because of it. If they unintentionally throw out a good Emerald wing shot, something that is incredibly unlikely given the ease of which it can be spotted and planned for if Fae doesn't know how to play, they cannot do this with any consistency and will lose every time regardless of the shot they did make....the idea is to flatten the effect in order to reach a more meaningful predicate about the players' skill, to ensure it did not happen by chance.
It is a huge loss if you put all your points into it. The mana cost is easily regained by one trip to the moon well if not. This is the same for just about every ability in RoW, even without the mana increase.The ability does not affect minions or does have any other trait, so it's currently a huge loss for Fae to miss it with the high mana cost.
This is something you can plan for very easily, as troops have predictable movement patterns if there are no obstructions. You can easily see where the fighting on the lane is occurring, and, in turn, whether or not you'll see friendlies or enemies. Troops on either side move as fast as each other as well. So if you want to know where the enemy troops are currently, you need only look at where yours are and mentally reflect the map.That is not given. If you chase an enemy around the map, cross the lane, it will be highly crucial whether you encounter your own troops, enemies or none.
Blocking is something you can maneuver around. Why you would stop to cast a spell to damage the troops doesn't make sense to me either. If the game is early enough that their damage is significant relative to you, your ability won't kill them. If they're in a fight, walk past them. If they are in front of you, stay far enough to avoid aggro. If they are moving toward you, run in the same direction. If you're so low on health that a few troop hits will kill you, Emerald wing isn't going to save you. It takes time to cast and you need to get rather close for it to hit. Phase shift is going to be better regardless.Not only because they deal damage and block one of the two players while passing...
Don't really see it as a big deal either way. Wouldn't mind it if it was there, wouldn't mind it if it wasn't.They do not possess a mana pool but the question was raised more because of them being summons, they practically consist of mana. It is not that uncommon that such spells damage summons.
Choose a point closer to your hero rather than clicking far away and having the Warcraft pathing decide your direction.If the standard behavior decides to turn the caster, it is easy to receive a wholly different outcome because the value changes so fast.
The ease of which to aim something, the ease of which to respond to it, and the results it generates all compared to one another. That is the general process for myself. Of course, since a lot of the abilities can vary, this isn't the end-all be-all, just how I would describe my thought process in a sentence. And I don't think the current content is balanced. I think Fae is balanced.By asking how you would recognize opness I was obviously referring to why are you so sure the current content is balanced in general.
No, it is my evaluation of the supposed problems you bring up and your solutions to them. The fact that I don't think Fae needs many changes beyond bug fixing is the application of not fixing what isn't broken.You have a fixed impression of how Fae should be e.g.
Ease of movement across the map, # of towers alive and their health, team k/d/a, aggregate bounty, aggregate hero level, control of the creeps, control of the lightning rod. Those are some of the ways to tell.Yeah, but recognizing in whose favor the game progresses.
Mid-game is usually when the outer towers get pushed hardest, barring those that survive to the late game.Unless the kill statistics are very lopsided, the mid game is not very productive in pushing the towers.
Games that go on to the point where everyone has all their items are rare. Late game doesn't mean that everyone is maxed.Then everyone maxes out
Very easy to die when the other team comes together for the game-winning pushes. And what you say only makes sense if the outer towers are still alive. You're not going to succeed in keeping them alive if you're handing map control to the other team even if you hug them tight. The moon well's and masochist's healing does not scale unless you buy items specifically for it, so their effects are marginalized over time. Tower damage doesn't scale either. As for early game achievements, damage on towers, time spent on the lane, early kills gained, etc... are significant even if its effects aren't apparent to you later on. The fact that a team is able to finish their first items faster than the other due to early tower money is significant and will change how the game carries on. You seem to be thinking about how much that money is worth to you at the end of the game only, rather than also focusing on how the game progressed to its current position. i.e. how that money may have helped your team push the other further and get more kills.Since it's dragged to late game - you can even play safe in lane and go a bit into defensive to be able to use the moonwell/masochist and still get most of the money by just being close to the wave - early achievements lose significance.
Again, Fae is not the only one who can use the trail. The whole team can port to the front, throw some instant ability and immediately head back.
You yourself also said that one ought to be aware of what their hero is up to.
As stated before, if everyone is moving to stand on the trail, which it would be good to note is a line, enemies can set up shots with abilities that target in a similar fashion.
You don't have to throw out your abilities if there isn't a good opportunity to use them.
Enemies can save their shots for after the trail is over.
Again, aimed abilities don't require skill from just one player. The target also has decisions to make that are important to determining whether or not the shot hits.
If they unintentionally throw out a good Emerald wing shot, something that is incredibly unlikely given the ease of which it can be spotted and planned for if Fae doesn't know how to play, they cannot do this with any consistency and will lose every time regardless of the shot they did make.
It is a huge loss if you put all your points into it. The mana cost is easily regained by one trip to the moon well if not. This is the same for just about every ability in RoW, even without the mana increase.
This is something you can plan for very easily, as troops have predictable movement patterns if there are no obstructions. You can easily see where the fighting on the lane is occurring, and, in turn, whether or not you'll see friendlies or enemies. Troops on either side move as fast as each other as well. So if you want to know where the enemy troops are currently, you need only look at where yours are and mentally reflect the map.
Why you would stop to cast a spell to damage the troops doesn't make sense to me either. If the game is early enough that their damage is significant relative to you, your ability won't kill them.
If you're so low on health that a few troop hits will kill you, Emerald wing isn't going to save you.
Choose a point closer to your hero rather than clicking far away and having the Warcraft pathing decide your direction.
You seem to be thinking about how much that money is worth to you at the end of the game only, rather than also focusing on how the game progressed to its current position. i.e. how that money may have helped your team push the other further and get more kills.
So you think Haze is imbalanced? I've already went over how a hero can hit an enemy on the trail, especially if there are multiples. You can also move away from the trail if they are trying to line up shots that require closer ranges. There are effective responses to seeing Haze.Second, this point was not related to control but to balance. Everyone can dash forward, spam abilities at the enemies and when they try to resist you may dodge their spells by going back.
Yeah, just about every ability that can be fired in a straight line. Or abilities that do better with clumped heroes. Or just shooting the enemy. Attacks will follow them regardless of whether or not they teleport. Not to mention Haze has a long cooldown and getting pushed off of it can be deadly. The range is limited, and it is static during its entire duration, meaning an enemy can simply move away from it when they see it.No doubt there are counters. Specific counters.
Enemies being able to more easily line up shots does not disable targets from protecting themselves. Counterattack may become more difficult, but defending yourself can be as easy as moving a few distance units away from the trail. If you get caught out of position or trapped by it, that is your own fault for letting Fae line that up and not anticipating it. Haze doesn't stop your from dodging abilities either.My point is that the trail creates a potency/greatly disables the enemies from protecting themselves.
Can, given the circumstances that you need to slow enemies down or obstruct them in some way. Or if they're so low on health that you can kill them in a few hits, as you are as well. However these situations don't occur without events following them up. If not taking a shot at someone on Haze gets you killed, then it's unlikely that there was ever nothing you could have done to stop that, or to even hit the shot in the first place. Teleportation in a fixed area doesn't make one invincible. I also fail to see how enemies being able to get closer to you for an instant is imbalanced, especially when this ability can be easily anticipated if Fae is seen or her movements can be assumed. If not, then the threat is rarely going to be more than Fae herself, unless it is a multi-person gank. In which case one ought to have been paying attention to other lanes, with allies giving information on enemy whereabouts as well.And frankly, if your foe is standing right before you and you shoot something at him, you won't expect him to react that fast because that way you would give away your realistic opportunities. You saving your shots can very well be your doom.
Yes it is.#, although that's not entirely true.
There are abilities that are too fast to dodge as you see them. The key is anticipation. Agnes's arc arrows is incredibly fast, however one can anticipate its casting by seeing when Agnes turns around. One can also shield oneself by using troops to block it.I mean there are aimed spells that practically cannot be dodged, only missed, else they would pose huge disables.
No it isn't. Erratic movement, anticipating Psy's target area, and staying in enemy vision to heal up or gain a shield are all ways a target can dodge Miracle Eye. Usually the reason why people die to it is because they forget that there is a Psy on the enemy team, and thus do not act accordingly.Miracle Eye of Psychic would be an example.
Team fights rely heavily on good positioning, which will determine if you get hit or not given the amount of spells flying around barring simple dodging. If you do get hit as a result of chill or knockbacks, that requires some amount of coordination on the other team's part to pull off it one desires to do it with consistency. Coordination can be torn apart if the opposing team can split enemies up and focus people down. A Fae that throws out spells with minimal aiming or planning may get hits off given multiple targets. It is not done with any consistency, nor will this player particularly assist with team coordination given Fae's supportive tendencies. Another problem is that this Fae will have been doing worse in prior events where multiple targets not focused on Fae had not existed, and thus will be even less effective in team fights than a player who does aim and plan ahead, regardless of whether or not enemies get hit because they weren't focusing on Fae.I do not think the variance of hitting/missing is so low, especially in clustered team fights where knockbacks, teleports and confusion occur. It is also there that it makes a greater difference.
If we begin discussing players that play poorly then we are no longer talking about game mechanics unless we refer to and compare the particular ease of performing an action and its result.Moreover, you do not even seem to consider the existence of players that do not play perfectly nor stably.
Most of them are sharp and none of them allow a player to kill waves with a manageable mana cost.A lot of the other abilities do affect minions or possess other side benefits. I agree on abilities like Gemini Strike since it can fizzle out, is even instant but not aborted.
This is something that a decent player does as chasing begins. If you lost the team fight and need to run, then you need to work out an escape route or a counter attack plan. This includes knowing where the troops are and planning accordingly. This doesn't take a long time. You just need to glance at the minimap on the lane you're interested in. Doing this in the middle of a fight is difficult, however this isn't normally done during a fight. During the fight players usually plan such that they do not get trapped with no good exits if worse comes to worse. This sort of anticipating normally happens after the team fight has ended or is near ending.You cannot expect the players to forecast when and where they and the minions will be after a minute-spanning team fight with kind of arbitrary movement paths, high dependence on the enemy party, towers bouncing the wave.
Share of what? Stopping short to kill creeps does nothing for chasing an enemy across the map, which is what you yourself proposed as a reason for this change.It does its share.
You came up with the situation, I fleshed out instances where it would occur (And does, quite often actually) and a viable response. None of them require Emerald wing nor would it be particularly desirable to use it. There is no reason to make the change unless you can come up with the necessity of the change, especially when the change also has laning ramifications that need also be resolved. So far you've only referred to killing creeps that chase you or block your movement, when this isn't at all necessary or desirable as I've explained.For a supposed to be skilled player, you oddly often refer to 1on1, abstract situations and think in a simple scale.
If you have problems aiming that way, use a close point instead.Was referring to the rotation stemming from auto-attack here.
How long does it take you to press W? If you have problems with points that are too close them move it to your liking.However, if you choose a near target, you will have less time to cast because your hero will start idling faster and continue executing standard behavior like auto-attack.
Why are you talking about hero builds for a strategy that requires team action? Unless you are the only one playing defensive, in which case you are depriving the team of a player in team fights. Being defensive in and of itself gives the enemy an advantage. Outer towers are going to be problematic to defend, if not already dead with little hope of taking the enemy's towers, creeps and the lightning rod will be in enemy hands, you become more constricted and have less options for movement, etc... It may become necessary if you are at a disadvantage, since that in and of itself forces you onto the defensive. Being at a disadvantage means that you need to be more conservative with when you fight, where you move, and how you play. This isn't bad nor is it a direct counter to a team with an advantage and map control. A team with those both and a strength advantage can easily abuse it to further their edge. Being on the defensive means looking for slip-ups and exploiting those.Nope. I meant a semi-defensive state where you delay the game on purpose in order to counter the enemy or you think you have a greater chance in late game due to a hero build/match up that scales worse early on.
If you're playing in a defensive fashion that opens you to the creep camps, then you can easily be ganked when you split up from your team. If you bring your whole team then you're opening yourself to a team fight near the middle of the map, which you don't want if you're at a disadvantage.There are coins and creeps, latter can be relatively well warded off, since they are not weak and can be reached from defensive.
The offensive player also gains money from pushing towers. As the creeps get stronger, their benefit towards pushing a lane does as well.As for coins, it's annoying for both sides to know who drops them. The lightning rod is more of a temporary bonus. Yes, you can take risks with it, thereby gain advantage but in any way the offensive player has to deploy money and time first he could have had in the lane.
Is there anyway i can get hold of the RoWBoT hosting services.I need it so i can play more often on battlenet this summer.