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Reality Check

Discussion in 'Site Discussion' started by The World Is Flat, Dec 1, 2010.

  1. En_Fuego

    En_Fuego

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    Blizzard will pay people for modding SC2...if you upload on the Hive then would that be a copyright violation?

    What's it a copyright violation of anyway? It's your right to sell it...
     
  2. Boris_Spider

    Boris_Spider

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    The responses from Kimberly and En_Fuego exemplify the issue TWIF was bringing up.

    They have valid points, but as TWIF pointed out THW isn't meant to be a site highlighting 'purely proffesional results' but rather a community of people with similar interests that are looking for the opportunity to display and improve their skills.

    If only the best modders are allowed to upload, you alienate users from the opportunity to improve their skills and beneift THW as a whole. By doing this you discourage new users from participating. The best modders here started out doing shitty mods.

    Not every resource ever uploaded should be stored on THW, but it shouldn't take itself so seriously that it discourages/prohibits others from being a part of it. This is a resource sharing site, not a springboard for professional careers.

    //\\oo//\\

    Note: Thanks to Crabby_Spider for dragging me back on topic... \\//xx\\//
     
  3. Kimbo

    Kimbo

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    No ones saying they HAVE to upload it to the resource section, and that if you suck, you get barred from hive, you can still post resources in threads at the forum as long as they arnt stolen.

    sheesh

    EDIT: Mods, or at least I encourage new users to utilized the forums instead of the database, as the database ISNT meant for critic, but only approval of "polished" resources. IF you want feedback, go to the forums, thats were most of the GOOD modders of today went.
     
  4. Crabby_Spider

    Crabby_Spider

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    There is way too much emphasis in the process here requiring users to prove a negative (arnt stolen). The reference Boris made earlier to dA was that stolen materials are removed if proven to be so, here you have to jump through hoops to appease some mod (and none of those efforts actually prove authenticity).

    This would be wonderful advice, if the forums got the attention that the resource sections do. Erebus (map by Boris and I) is in both the resource section and the map development thread, but has gotten very little feedback in the development thread. Nearly every update we've made has come from comments in the resource post. Maybe I'm wrong, but I imagine other users have similar experiences regarding their uploads. It should be the way you described, but theory doesn't match practice in this case.

    As for my take on TWIF's comments. It's always a good idea to take a step back from things once in a while, and refresh your perspective. This is especially true when you find yourself taking things (and I mean anything) seriously. At 45, I'm not the typical user here. Hell, I can't play the game to save my life. But I do enjoy tinkering with things. It's fun, and a way to share an interest with Boris. Creating a resource and getting it to work well within a project is a creative outlet and enjoyable. The fun part gets lost when you try to share your efforts and instead of constructive criticism, you're met with accusation and/or hostility. It's just a game folks, and by the time most of you reach my age, none of this will matter.

    //\\òó//\\
     
  5. anarchianbedlam

    anarchianbedlam

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    It's called "profiling suspects" And yes, we realize that it is not a foolproof system (look at paladon) but it certainly helps. No posts no rep and no friends are red flags if an amazing resource is uploaded because we havent seen what you are capable of yet and we have had WAY too many examples of trolls who do exactly that. create a profile and upload CnP. What is so hard to understand here? On the internet, where anonymity is the name of the game, you have to earn respect to be taken seriously. And you can earn that respect by POSTing your work in galleries or POSTing comments that are helpful (i.e. so we know that you actually know what the fuck you are talking about concerning "art/resources")

    If you dont have that "video of yourself drawing the picture" then why dont you draw other pictures? start a thread, make a gallery of your work, show people... nay PROVE to people that you are, and can do, what you say you can.

    If it looks like crap then its not useful now is it? Unless they use it as a button for a "crap" spell or to build a "crap" unit

    .... and also this
    [​IMG]
     
  6. The World Is Flat

    The World Is Flat

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    *me dies from over thought spasm overhead.*
     
  7. Boris_Spider

    Boris_Spider

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    That is a problem.

    Another problem. Resources should be uploaded because they can be of use to others.

    It is up to the users to decide whether or not something "looks like crap".

    //\\oo//\\
     
  8. anarchianbedlam

    anarchianbedlam

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    [​IMG]

    Yes, yes, you're right, of course, I can see how that would be. I mean, everyone knows respect is like air, its fucking everywhere, everyone should get respect. Does this hobo want to take out a $30k loan? SURE THING, I TRUST HIM. Should we let this sociopath out of jail? SURE because we respect his wishes.

    Respect, and the Trust that comes with that respect is... its earned.... i really dont know how you dont understand this. You... you said you were 45 years old? And you dont know the how this game works?

    1. We will not condone art theft, it infringes on the artistic liscence of the original creator, it is rude and immoral to claim other people's hard work as your own.
    2. If someone really... REALLY wanted that CnP icon of yours that got rejected, then they can get it themselves. Seeing as CnP takes like, abso-fuckin-lutely no effort.

    And it is up to the moderators to decide if those resources (be they icons, models, etc) break any of the perfectly reasonable hive rules.
     
  9. Boris_Spider

    Boris_Spider

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    1) Everyone should get respect initially.
    Does it work that way in rl? No.
    Is THW rl? No.
    THW is a mod support site for a video game which rl.
    There is no reason to distrust new users until after they violate THW's rules.
    2) Your comparisons contradict themselves. The hobo analogy doesn't make any sense; many 'hobos' are born into their situations and thus are guilty of nothing but bad luck. Those that weren't had a chance and blew it, and then your point would make sense as a consequence of poor desicions, which included correctly applied labels: "High Risk", "avoid", etc. As for the sociopath analogy, he commited a crime first, then got put in jail. He lost trust and respect. The problem here on THW is that all new users are initially guilty of rules violations because they have a brand new profile. If they break rules, then punish them. If it's proven they stole work, then punish them.

    Crime first, punishment next.

    That's correct in rl; this is a for-fun game mod site. I understand your statement in regards to rl. But again, is THW rl? No.

    Crabby_Spider is 45, I'm not.

    ~I support the stance against art theft. I don't want my resources, or anybody elses, to be stolen. I don't want to be accused of theivery because I have no rep, no posts, and no 'friends.'

    ~Between Crabby and I, only one icon was rejected (in regards to some art preference of the mod, not because of CnP). CnP is not the reason for our positions. Our problem is that we were repeatedly accused of plagiarism, even though there were no resources on THW, or any other site for that matter, that were even mentioned (I know this because none were presented, which the accusers would have been more than happy to do.). The amount of shit we had to deal with just to get critique on the icon art was rediculous, although we did take it as a complement of sorts, since if the icons were shit we wouldn't have had any trouble or accusations.

    I don't dispute that.

    THW is a resource site, not an art gallery. Art is something done for fun. Models are a form of art. The attempt at professionalism here is what's turning THW into a:
    Relax. This is a hobby...

    //\\oo//\\

    Off Topic: Love the pic.
     
  10. XenoStalker

    XenoStalker

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    I simply agree. Besides, the community has gotten smaller. Tralalala.
     
  11. anarchianbedlam

    anarchianbedlam

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    oh my god. so THAT is what this is all about? you're feelings got hurt because they didnt like the picture you drew? You hi-jack TWIF's thread because of this? .... wow

    [​IMG]
     
  12. The World Is Flat

    The World Is Flat

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    Ok back from minecra-OHSHIT

    Wtf happend here? This thead has become the very fucking thing that PISSES THE HELL OUT OF ME, and doesent help thw out at all. just stop.
     
  13. En_Fuego

    En_Fuego

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    Tbh, they don't deserve respect...but that doesn't instantly make them rule-violators.

    ^This is what the Hive does. Where's the harm in checking to make sure someone uploaded something that was their work? Worst case scenario, it's not their work and you delete it.
     
  14. nickel510

    nickel510

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    Srsly unless this isn't your fist account, you've only been on this site for a year.
     
  15. GhostThruster

    GhostThruster

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    Told you it was hypocritical :p

    But, why are you debating over an icon? Look, we have every right to distrust you. And, the internet is actually even worse than real life, because on the net you can hide your personal details.
     
  16. Crabby_Spider

    Crabby_Spider

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    The debate wasn't over an icon. Anarchian is trying to control the discussion with Boris by commenting on a single point out of context. The icon was just an example of how new users are treated with distrust. The distrust is the issue. (A point you just re-emphasized)

    The point by TWIF, as I understood it, was at least some people here are taking their roles too seriously (mods and members). Most people come here to either get resources or submit them, others just to converse with people that share an interest. As for myself, and I'm sure there are at least a few like me, I don't have the time nor inclination to pretend I'm befriending some teenager half-way across the globe, just so they can deem my character worthy of consideration, before they will comment on or consider the resources I would like to submit.

    Standards are to be expected, and someone has to act as the gate-keeper. The fun in all this disappears when egos get inflated/stepped-on, and rants ensue. I'm sure there are suggestions on how to minimize this, but that would likely be another thread.

    //\\òó//\\
     
  17. nickel510

    nickel510

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    Well I've never had a problem with this, but then again I've never had a serious thread or any members of my project to make it too serious. Imo, if you just act maturely yourself and don't get hostile back at them, it can't escalate. The bible says, hostility begets hostility.
     
  18. Boris_Spider

    Boris_Spider

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    As Crabby mentioned, I'm not debating over some icon, check my posts. The distrust against new users and the requirement that they prove a negative before getting any feedback is why I'm here.

    It's what I've been doing. I've made my points. anarchianbedlam wants to fight, and I'm not going to give him one. His attempts at sidestepping and distracting from my posts, and my attempts to drag him back on topic, is the drama-bullshit TWIF brought up in the OP.

    @TWIF Since this post probably pissed you off more, I'm sorry. I've made my case here and have nothing to add.

    //\\oo//\\
     
  19. En_Fuego

    En_Fuego

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    No one's saying you have to befriend them. Opening up a thread showing off your skills is just giving moderators an idea of how skillful you are.

    For example, if someone opened a thread with a bunch of stick figure art (and lets say this was the limit to their talent) and then uploaded an icon that was really detailed and designed with a great amount of skill, then they would likely have "cnp"d that icon.

    It's not really a matter of friendship, it's just a matter of proving that you're as good as you say you are. The Hiveworkshop isn't about giving people resources so they can make maps. It's about getting a decent database of approved resources. That's why they have rules about what you can and cannot upload. There are other websites that have no such restrictions on thievery and no standards for what is uploaded, so by all means, if you have a problem with the current system of "distrust" here on the Hive, go there.

    edit: Boris_spider, don't act so damn innocent. Claiming that the Hive has a huge problem when it really doesn't is grounds for starting an argument, especially when you're talking to someone who's been here for so long, has put a lot of time and effort into the maintenance of the site, and is more than a "Respected User" (anarchianbedlam)
     
  20. The World Is Flat

    The World Is Flat

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    And you've been with the hive less than a year nickel, i have no idea why on earth you raised this point, it doesent take more than a year of daily activity to know the hive well, and to feel change.

    If you dont feel like the fucking hive is treating you well dont spam my fucking thread about it, tell an adminstrator. or just fucking leave.

    the hive isnt about anything but modding. i am here because i MOD. but also because i enjoy the community around modding, if you dont like the community, then get the hell out. *rages*

    please, your overthinknig things right now, just stop. nobody really gives a fuck, as sad as that is. if you continually submit good artwork, with no evidence of infringment in intellectual property, copyrighting, or cutandpasting then who the hell cares? let people accuse all they want. were here because we mod, or supply resources to modders, not because were an art critic site, resources are here because modders want them, and they want resources that are original.

    so to end my rant, we all know what thw is. now start acting like it or get the hell out. i dont give a fuck about seriousness, but stop, for fucks sake stop acting liek the hive is somthing it is. just dont.

    /hypocracy/