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Political Discussion

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Level 36
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Alrighty, since I know how opinionistic you all are, I thought I'd spread a little more chaos by creating this thread. The premise is as follows: In history recently we've been learning about the Cold War etc Capitalism/Deomcracy VS. Communism. Well, it seems that A LOT of people just assume that Communism is associated with evil. It's even used as an insult, usually by Americans (from my experiences). Well this is what I've learned: Communism is not evil. At all. In fact it's quite the opposite. Communism is a government completely for the people. The main goal of Communism is to have equal rights for everyone. So unlike Capitalism, where the rich get richer and the poor have nothing, everyone is equal with Communism. The way they set this up is by having the government control all assets. Everyone gets equal status, wages, treatment, regardless of anything. Now Communism is by no means perfect, it has major flaws which prevent it from working: The leader. You have one leader who oversees everything, and this is where Communism fails. People, in their capitalist ways, think "Well why spend the money on the people when I can have it for myself?" and slowly, the money stops going to the people and the country falls. This isn't quite what happened with the Soviet Union, but it is along the same lines: Instead of sending the money back to the people, the Soviets got involved in a little pissing match with the Americans, aka the Cold War. This wasteful Cold War sent all of the money into Nuclear Arms and the military. So eventually, the Soviet Union colapsed on itself because it could not survive without money being circulated properly. Of course the Capitalists survive because they don't need to give money back to the people, everyone fends for themselves, and this can be a good thing and a bad thing. Communism relies on the principle that one perfect leader can rule them. But this is impossible, there will always be corruption because instead of the moeny going back to everyone, it ends up into someones pocket, or into some other expense that is not necessary.

Don't get me wrong, I like democracy, but if the Communists ever found that perfect leader, uncorrupt, who cared about his people, well that Country would be a beautiful, beautiful place. I'm sure some people wouldn't like it, because in their materialistic ways, they want more then someone else, they want more money, a larger house, more stuff. But, if you have no qualms about the government providing for you, then you would likely enjoy a Communist country, where everyone is equal.

It's a dream, more then a reality, as the Soviets proved years ago, and even now, does China or Cuba look like that idealistic place I dream of? Of course not, because their leaders don't care about the people. China puts its money into its army, Cuba, god knows where the money goes... but regardless, don't you think it would be nice if the world was that kind of place?

What is your opinion on communism? Do you like democracy or capitalism better? Do you have information that I am missing? Argue your point, I want an intelligent discussion here people, so if you don't know what you're talking about, then please, don't post. I'd like to see sources for information too, if available. This information of mine comes from my History class and some reading I did on Wikipedia.

Discuss.
 
Discussion of politics is allowed at hive, then. I remembered that it was not allowed. Fortunately VGSatomi does not visiting this site. You cannot imagine how reactive can be US Army soldier about Communism.

I think that the best is the combination of both like in Sweden. USA is too liberal, nearly of institutions are privatized and without money you rot on the streets. Even though shows outside like the economical superpower, has a lot of poverty. About Cuba we know how it is. However before Castro's arrival it was much worse, it was the hive of criminals. At least then was some order.
 
Level 36
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No my title does not say user. You are mistaken. It says "Ahmahgahd Canadian!" obviously implying that I am of Canadian origin. Like I said, if you don't have anything useful to contribute, like if you post without reading MY initial post, then do not bother posting at all. I don't want another "Earth to end on 2029 or 2012?" thread.
 
Level 3
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Communism is the bastard creation of the dreams of men.

The Communist Manifesto said:
"The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles."

This is ultimately the thesis of Marx and Engels, and the creation of communism. By looking back on society the two young philosophers basically theorized that war and conflict were the results of inequality between classes. How did they come to such thinking? At the time, Europe was becoming industrialized, and many poor people (proletarians) worked very hard while factory owners and other richer individuals (bourgeois) enjoyed a rather wealthy lifestyle. In the words of Robert C. Tucker (Marx-Engels Reader, pg. 473):

"By bourgeoisie is meant the class of modern Capitalists, owners of the means of social production and employers of wage-labour. By proletariat, the class of modern wage-labourers who, having no means of production of their own, are reduced to selling their labour-power in order to live."

I believe this large gap between the rich and poor lead to the desire of a "utopia," so to speak. In fact, this thinking was not the creation of Marx and Engels - there's philosophy of a classless sweet and happy society written even by the Greeks (Plato, The Republic).

Communism is wishful thinking. It is the wishful thinking of deep thinkers who want a perfect society to exist. The "dream" of Communism is the dream that lurks on the edges of all our minds - a perfect lifestyle, a world of eternal bliss, with a perfect society and free of sin. It's not unlike Heaven as depicted by the Bible. However, Capitalism, and even lefter-wing societies like Sweden are reality. There will always be parasites that seek to poison the social structure of any nation and pull it away from "the infinite left." This is because of the ego. As William James once said:

"A man's Self is the sum-total of all that he can call his, not only his body, and his psychic powers, but his clothes and his house, his wife and children, his ancestors and friends, his reputation and works, his land and horse and yacht and bank account."

Simply put: a man is measured based upon the above, and parasites will want the above. Thus Communism can never exist, because parasites will always exist, and will always seek to make their Self bigger - they will always seek to feed their ego. In a sense, mankind is his own worst enemy, and Communism is the perfection that he will never attain due to the concept of Self.

Like Marx and Engels, Plato, and so many other wishful thinkers, Communism is the bastard dream of utopia that will never be due to the fact that people can think for themselves.
 
Level 6
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Communism is the *road to salvation*, the only way we can survive in this brutal world :D
 
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I think that the best is the combination of both like in Sweden. USA is too liberal, nearly of institutions are privatized and without money you rot on the streets. Even though shows outside like the economical superpower, has a lot of poverty. About Cuba we know how it is. However before Castro's arrival it was much worse, it was the hive of criminals. At least then was some order.


Thast right complain about the most powerful economical country in the world <rolls eyes> lol. As for cuba yes he did get rid of the criminals by recruiting them into his army and making deals with the druglords to use drugs as a commercail export lol.
 
Level 18
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In short, communism does not work because of human greed, and capitalism does work because of human greed, but causes terrible wars and social inequality.

The obvious answer is to have a system that combines communism and capitalism, whereby every person has the neccesities of life provided for by the state, i.e. food, clothing, housing, power etc; whether or not they work. However, because humans do have a sense of self and therefore the greed/desire for more, they will still strive to work and earn money, and then use that money to buy all the extra things they want, i.e. TV, computers, higher-quality essentials etc. In this way everyone is assured the ingredients neccesary for life, but still have to work for anything beyond that.


Thast right complain about the most powerful economical country in the world <rolls eyes> lol.

...He didn't say anything about China.

-*meow*
 
Level 12
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Shados is right, communism does not apply the law of "Ceterus Paribus" : everything else being equal opportunity cost. Also communism does not apply to the nature of human kind which is, intatiable wants or limmited wants (greed). Communism is good for a developing country to enroll their status and ensure there is political stability and security. But in terms of the economy, Democracy has more powerful advantage. However there is actually no real Pure Capitalism in this world because overall every country will lead to protectionism. I would say a system of Socialism, which is a combination between both, where public sector is controlled by the government and private sector is in the free market, is a good system. America's blame on communism is based on the aftermathc of Cold War. That Cold War aftermath is very crucial to the development of Globalization, in fact everyone now is trying to become the greates Democratic Nation while in fact, you could actualy become the greatest non Democratic Nation like for example, China.
 
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