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Meaning of life/greed.

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Level 25
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Life is fucking pointless. (I will try not to sound depressed or pessimistic, since that is not my wish. I am also aware of that this thread most likely will be spammed with useless and mindless posts since it is in the "off-topic"-section. But I hope some people can say something wise at least.)

On to the seriousness then;

What is the point of living, if you can't "live"?

I don't quite get it.

First off, you spend like twenty years in school, learning more or less loads of stuff you won't ever need to know, neither use, in your life.
When you finally get out of school, then you have to find a job, and begin to work, to earn money, in order to; Well, work some more and buy food and pay your bills with. And it comes down to be able to work even more. To earn even more money.

You can't ever really live your life.
If we take myself as an example;
I would love to just travel the world, visit all the amazing places that can be visited, do all the awesome things that can be done.
But I can't, since I will need a hell of a lot of money for that. And to get money, I have to work. And by working, My time is spoiled.

The only way I think I could be able to "live" accordingly to my point of view. Would be to win on a casino or something.


Another way I could think of living is to move to some unexplored country with no government that controls you. Every god damn politician is completely out of their minds.
They try to sound all wise, kind and "people-loving" but it is all crap. They have got the taste of money and everything they say and everything they do is about earning more money for themself or for their country.
And no matter what country you live in, and no matter how much freedom you think you have. You won't ever be free. You will still be locked up and controlled.

I get that I sound like some sort of depressed anarchist trying to reqruit you guys to my view of the world. That is not it. I am not looking for pity or some shit like that either.

The subject of the thread would be that it is terrible that people are so greedy. Everything is about money. No matter how much you ignore it and try with some bullshit talking about how you can't buy love with money or suchlike. (You find your love, and then what? You won't be able to do anything with him/her if you don't have money anyway. You won't even be able to live with him/her without money.)

Everything comes down to the money.
 
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You get up at 6. Fix yourself up and travel to work. Work begins at 8. Work until 3-5. Travel home.
That would leave maybe from 5-6 on the evening until bedtime for your free time. That isn't quite much.
Certainly not enough to travel to another country for instance, since you must be home before the next day.

The jobpart, well yeah, I guess they do exist:) And sure, some people are satisfied with a life like that, work most of the time, earn your money, go home watch a movie or go out and eat.
But to me, that is one boring life.

But that isn't really the point either, it is that you're life is always controlled by someone or something. Guess I was unclear of my subject.
 

Deleted member 157129

D

Deleted member 157129

First of all, when I look back, there's nothing in school that I haven't had some kind of benefit from. I like the feeling of knowing what I'm talking about, and I disgust the thought of not understanding what people are talking about, just because I didn't go to school. School may seem pointless at the time, but when you're done, you realize that, heck, it wasn't that bad after all. I sure learned a lot of stuff that I never thought I'd find useful, and I probably did learn a lot that I've forgotten or haven't used (yet), but I still learned, and that made me capable of learning more. Not only because of basic knowledge, but because I've trained myself to be able to learn. I know a few people that dropped out of school early, and started working. Most of them regret not finishing school, because now they're stuck with a low-paying job (yeah, I know, I'll get to the money later), starting up a basic education from nothing or, well, living as a criminal (which may or may not be very attractive). They also get left out in discussions, and they generally look at themselves as stupid, because there's so much they don't understand. Maybe they are stupid, maybe the lack of ability to tolerate a few more years of school is what stupidity is all about. I find school, in retrospect, to be fundamentally necessary in our society, and I learned a lot that I will always appreciate, I made friends that I'll (hopefully) keep for the rest of my life, and I had something to spend my days doing. There was something in my life that I could expect to remain unchanged. It also made vacations all the more attractive when it wasn't something you had every day. I'm currently unemployed and not attending anything at all, and it tears apart my motivation. Weekends are just like weekdays, except my friends are more available. Vacations are non-existent. I have nothing to do, most of the time, and with too much time, I am not as motivated to do anything I otherwise would've done in my spare time.

What you're describing, though, is capitalism in a nutshell. Everything is about money, and I agree, it's ridiculous. Freedom is a measure of how rich you are, yet with more money comes responsibility, so your freedom is swiftly cut down. However, like I mentioned earlier, we appreciate the few good moments in our lives more when there is lack of them. Besides, how would the world go 'round if nobody worked? You would inevitably have to work for your own food, anyway - and as far as I've gathered, the life of a farmer in the days before machines (and even now) is a lot more busy than the average city worker's life - at least, that's my impression. Farmer do, admittedly, feed more than one family, but even if you were to feed yourself alone, it would most likely turn out to be more work than you'd expect, and give you less time to travel the world, as well.

In the end, we all want more free time, but we all need food and food requires some sweat from each and every one. I think it's quite fair that way. I'm not in the opinion that any structure is better than the other, capitalism and communism, as examples, both have their flaws.

Oh, and working 8 hours a day is 33% of the day, working 5 days a week is roughly 70% of the year. If you omit vacations, that leaves you at roughly spending 23% of every year on work, while you're spending 33% of the year, on average, sleeping and the rest is yours to design. I know that it's a misleading image, because this time is in-between working time and can't really be utilized as freely as you'd like, but I brought this forth because you said something about working most of your time. That's not statistically correct for your average western citizen, alas it may very well be correct for certain other countries that I will not mention specifically in fear of leaving anyone out or pointing fingers at innocent people.

TL;DR - such is life, get used to it.
 
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Just wondering: if everyone would be living their dreams and travelling around, who would be flying the airplanes? Who would be operating buses and trains for travelling? Who would be making food for the travellers? Who would be building houses where they could sleep their nights?
 
Level 25
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First of all, this was exactly the kind of post I was hoping to get. Thank you for that.

They also get left out in discussions, and they generally look at themselves as stupid, because there's so much they don't understand. Maybe they are stupid, maybe the lack of ability to tolerate a few more years of school is what stupidity is all about.

I see what you mean and sure school might be very important for the sake of common knowledge and overall smartness. For some people.
I am not talking about dropping out of it or something (god that would be stupid since I am on my last year), neither am I talking about that school is completely useless. (Might have sounded like it, but that was not my intention in that case). Sure I learn something (actually quite much), and I am grateful of that, school is a good thing. But there is also many useless things I learn in school. For instance, I couldn't care less about what happens with a compost if I feed it with an oakleaf.

If I think of it, with not just myself in mind, it is actually a very good thing. I consider myself mature enough to make my decisions of my future life already. But when I think of my classmates. It all fails, most of them aren't even mature enough to realize that they actually need their education. Or that they need a job to live.
So giving every teenager the choice of skipping school or such would end in a disaster.

I made friends that I'll (hopefully) keep for the rest of my life

That wouldn't work for me, since almost all of my friends in school are bloody stupid. The friends I want to keep are outside of school, mostly older, since the people of my age can't satisfy my needs. (Don't misinterpret that).
But sure, it is a good place to meet people, friends, but that goes the other way as well. It is a very good place to be bullied or mocked on as well, and you can't escape it.

I'm currently unemployed and not attending anything at all, and it tears apart my motivation. Weekends are just like weekdays, except my friends are more available. Vacations are non-existent. I have nothing to do, most of the time, and with too much time, I am not as motivated to do anything I otherwise would've done in my spare time.

The world is quite big, so you can probably do things, things that will keep your motivation up. For your whole life. IF, you would have the money for it. But yes, everything won't just be solved if you were to get money and infinite amount of free time.
With money, as you said, comes responsibility. Some people would be blinded by greed when they get to taste it. And it exists a risk that you would buy and do everything you currently want, and that can be very boring after a while. Maybe even more deppresive than actually living a normal life to be honest.

You would inevitably have to work for your own food, anyway - and as far as I've gathered, the life of a farmer in the days before machines (and even now) is a lot more busy than the average city worker's life - at least, that's my impression.

That sounds quite appealing to me. As long as I could get rid of the government's and the capitalism's influence of me, I would gladly work the whole day's in some nice country far away from all the crap in the world. ( it is a freaking dream though, and won't ever happen, just saying, to state that I am aware of it.)

and give you less time to travel the world, as well.

This would be where that lifestyle would fuck it up for me though.
Neithertheless, I would prefer to live like that anytime compared to the regular life of most people.

Oh, and working 8 hours a day is 33% of the day, working 5 days a week is roughly 70% of the year. If you omit vacations, that leaves you at roughly spending 23% of every year on work, while you're spending 33% of the year, on average, sleeping and the rest is yours to design. I know that it's a misleading image, because this time is in-between working time and can't really be utilized as freely as you'd like, but I brought this forth because you said something about working most of your time. That's not statistically correct for your average western citizen, alas it may very well be correct for certain other countries that I will not mention specifically in fear of leaving anyone out or pointing fingers at innocent people.

Statistically you are right that most of my life won't consist of work. But you are also saying exactly my point. As you stated.
I see what you are saying.

The things I didn't reply to in your post are points I am agreeing with or don't have anything to say about. Mostly agreeing.
 
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Just wondering: if everyone would be living their dreams and travelling around, who would be flying the airplanes? Who would be operating buses and trains for travelling? Who would be making food for the travellers? Who would be building houses where they could sleep their nights?

It wouldn't have to be so damn expensive to take the airplane, to take the bus, to take the train, to buy food or to build houses.
If it would be cheaper; More people would be able to live their dreams, since it mostly is about the costs of travelling.
And as I said, some people are happy by living a normal life. Working the whole days, coming home to watch a movie and grab a beer. Those people would be the ones. There are quite many that actually are satisfied with that.
But for people like myself, lowering the costs of all that stuff would give me the option to live my life as I would like to as well. (well, more or less)

I hear myself, and I am talking about some complete global economical makeover. Not going to happen , I am not that naive.
So I am just saying. Capitalism is meh. Mostly everything consists of matters of money. And that is, as Shiik stated, ridiculous.
 
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Just wondering: if everyone would be living their dreams and travelling around, who would be flying the airplanes? Who would be operating buses and trains for travelling? Who would be making food for the travellers? Who would be building houses where they could sleep their nights?

I know what it is. But I can't say it out loud because I'd be called a racist if I would >:D
:thumbs_up:
 
Level 19
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do you really need to travel?
it's not like there would be much new stuff out there
and if you really want to do it feel free to do work&travel or to work for some time, travel for a lot shorter time, work for some time etc.

also you don't have to go by plane
there are lots of cheaper alternatives (and if you are going by foot you will be able to enjoy the landscape ;)
you don't have to spend much money unless you want to have a luxory live

nevertheless money is a big issue
my uncle went to another country in his camper van with solar cells and all stuff but at some point he ran out of money so now he has to work again (but not long and not hard)

and I agree with you that life is pointless (although from a more philosophical point of view)

I'm looking foreward to the future where robots will do all work which has to be done
but the motivational problem shiik mentioned will be a problem
much of my time I spend in front of my pc wasting my time
I'm most productive if I'm short on time and if I'll never be short on time I'd need some other motivation to keep things rolling
 
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do you really need to travel?
it's not like there would be much new stuff out there

Say what? Not much stuff out there...
I got some cows and a tree here. There is enough of interesting stuff to do or places to visist around the globe for at least two whole lifetimes.

and if you really want to do it feel free to do work&travel or to work for some time, travel for a lot shorter time, work for some time etc.

Sure, but will be expensive and I won't be able to pay for unexpected events. Since I can only live/travel for the money I have earned during my period of work.

also you don't have to go by plane
there are lots of cheaper alternatives (and if you are going by foot you will be able to enjoy the landscape ;)
you don't have to spend much money unless you want to have a luxory live

True. There are cheaper alternatives. and I will probably be walking a lot. But Can't walk from scandinavia to US, or to China.

nevertheless money is a big issue

Yes.

and I agree with you that life is pointless (although from a more philosophical point of view)

I agree with that as well.

I'd need some other motivation to keep things rolling

Make a list of all the places you'd like to go to, and all the things you want to do. Promise yourself to do at least 50 % of it before you drop dead. And if you reach that goal, make it 70!
Would be enough motivation for me.
 
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Your happiness is not determined by the circumstances around you. You decide whether or not to be happy.

On a slightly related note, society has absolutely destroyed the meaning of freedom. If freedom is judged by the amount of options you have, life is only going to become less and less "free". The more choices we make, the less choices available to us in the future. Because we have a warped sense of what true freedom is, young people today put off making decisions so as to not limit their choices, but therefore never really live, and life makes choices for them since time will inexorably go by. It's sad.
 
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Does your hair happen to be dyed black :p?
Nah but having a job that you enjoy is really the key.
 
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Yeah lets try 10 years without anyone going to work or doing anything productive. ...

Elainiel said:
some people are happy by living a normal life. Working the whole days, coming home to watch a movie and grab a beer. Those people would be the ones. There are quite many that actually are satisfied with that.
Elainiel said:
And sure, some people are satisfied with a life like that, work most of the time, earn your money, go home watch a movie or go out and eat.

@Boris_Spider and Gilles: Yeah, sure it is what you make it. But if you want to do something you can't do. You won't be happy.

@raaawrr: I see what you did there.
And sure, for some, that would be the key.

@all who don't see my point: I am not depressed. Not at all. My life is better than ever right now. I am just god damn tired of being controlled by something or someone. I.e. money or the politicians. You don't really live your own life fully or control it, because that is not how it works these days.
 
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@Boris_Spider and Gilles: Yeah, sure it is what you make it. But if you want to do something you can't do. You won't be happy.
There is no where you would rather be than where you are, given your current circumstances.
 
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Things would be so much easier if people start considering the facts rather than arguing about points of view. Elainiel has stated a fact, it is a fact, and if people aren't going to consider it than there isn't much productivity here.
On topic:
Unless you get a ticket to Rapture, the cake is a lie.

Our race is now torn apart by a primitive thinking society, a never ending thirst for more and a rusty old machine that runs all things around. The worst thing is that there doesn't seem to be a way out!

There is no way to fix society, only ways to filter it and that causes tons of problems. Our thirst for development and self advancement is being, thanks to the many twisted minds out there, misguided into the wrong way and leads us to end as primitive as the rest of society. And as many has stated, the old machine that gives you money has dominated the world and we can't rebel against it.
The human race is lost and there is no way to save it all. You can try to save yourself and maybe few people around you but that is as far as you can go.

In the few coming years, our twisted thirst will continue to run us lower while giving more power to the machine and its lords while all forces opposite to this downward flow is weakened, bought or totally eradicated.

The way our lives should be (in my opinion) is in three stages:
1- Childhood: the time when humans learn the necessary skills for survival.
2- Youth: the time when humans put these skills to the test as they are allowed to travel and wander the world to gain a better understanding of the world they live in and decide what path they are going to take for the rest of their lives.
3- Adulthood: the time when all exploration is done, a certain path have been decided and the individual have settled for the life they decided upon.

This is how life was in the old ages and this is the life that was slowly but surly erased from our mined and replaced by an possession with security and stability that leaves little space for development.
Consider the benefit of such system, all the young and capable minds circling the world and settling where they feel most appreciated or needed. Imagine what some people would do to prevent such circulation and now you know the real enemy.
 
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I think the meaning of life is to die.
I think I'll be happy when it happens. Eternal rest, no more worries. I'm not really scared anymore. I used to think that dying would suck but you should try to imagine in what kind of agonizing pain you'll be when you die. When it happens, it'll be just as if you're young or healthy again for a brief moment and then... eternal relief.
 
Level 11
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I think the meaning of life is to die.
I think I'll be happy when it happens. Eternal rest, no more worries. I'm not really scared anymore. I used to think that dying would suck but you should try to imagine in what kind of agonizing pain you'll be when you die. When it happens, it'll be just as if you're young or healthy again for a brief moment and then... eternal relief.

Woah. Death is in fact the only thing I'm really scared of. Needles and broken bones make me weak, sure; but only death makes me scared. I'm too much of an egoist and observer. The void and nothingness - that I would not exist, it's so huge that I can't take it in. The fact that I won't be there to see 2100 nor 2200 is almost unimaginable.

Anyway, in short I think the reason to why people worry about their existence is actually because they have too much free time. A very few hundred years ago the majority of the world's population were simple farmers who worked all day and hadn't even left their own village in their whole life.

I myself in the other hand always end up thinking like you do (except maybe for the moneypart). What should I do with my life, that is worth doing?

School in moderation. I agree with ShiiK that you learn how to learn, which is a good thing. But very very soon you'll have to make life-changing decisions that you are not ready for. As we live longer we should give all people a longer childhood, but instead we push the limits, creating some sort of elitist competition where kids have to work their asses off to get a good future, which pretty much means more productivity. Scrap the essays and give children what each individual want.

At the same time we can't all do whatever the hell we want to do. Some need to work to make all the things go round. But imagine this for a second: in a few hundred years we don't even need manpower to go round. We simply need a few technicians to look after our robots that feeds us. What would happen then when pretty much everyone have lots and lots of spare time? Well, I know I would feel even more despair and wonder even more about what in the universe I should do with my life.
 

dab

dab

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@all who don't see my point: I am not depressed. Not at all. My life is better than ever right now. I am just god damn tired of being controlled by something or someone. I.e. money or the politicians. You don't really live your own life fully or control it, because that is not how it works these days.

Now I'm going to ask a question, which you don't have to answer. Could that control that you are speaking about, be the boundaries of what you yourself is able to go to? We live in this society and with the standard life of working and such, we feel happy, as work leaves less time for thinking. I happen to believe that you are the one causing your own problems. Also, if we did not have these boundaries, we would feel very rootless and at some point scared, as the human mind has more ease to function within safe and unshakeable boundaries. We are just build that way. You are always scared of what you don't know of. Take Chizume, for example:
Woah. Death is in fact the only thing I'm really scared of.


To sum it up, work makes sure you don't think. When you don't think, you don't care, and when you don't care, THAT'S where you are actually happy. Being a philosophist is one of, if not THE, most depressing "job's" I can imagine.

My 2 cents.
 
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To sum it up, work makes sure you don't think. When you don't think, you don't care, and when you don't care, THAT'S where you are actually happy. Being a philosophist is one of, if not THE, most depressing "job's" I can imagine.

I will have to agree with you there, since I am too good in thinking too far.
But I have to disagree with you on the part where you actually are happy by just working.

Just because I am thinking a lot about life and all of its meanings does not mean the ones that are not thinking is the ones that are happy happy. They are (might) just the ones living in the illusion. They think they are happy, but that is just because they don't think of the life outside the box.
 
Level 26
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To sum it up, work makes sure you don't think. When you don't think, you don't care, and when you don't care, THAT'S where you are actually happy. Being a philosophist is one of, if not THE, most depressing "job's" I can imagine.

My 2 cents.
You know what makes me happy? When I solve a really hard AMC Math problem. When I find a solution to that pain-in-the-ass puzzle in the Water Temple in Ocarina of Time. When I checkmate someone in chess.

Thinking is not feeling, sad, or even feeling happy. It's just feeling. When I spend a lot of time "not thinking", I don't think to myself, "Wow, that was a moment of bliss." I think to myself, "Wow, look at how much time I wasted when I could have been spent experiencing life." It cuts both ways.

No, there isn't a point to life. It's just there. May as well do something with it.

The subject of the thread would be that it is terrible that people are so greedy. Everything is about money. No matter how much you ignore it and try with some bullshit talking about how you can't buy love with money or suchlike. (You find your love, and then what? You won't be able to do anything with him/her if you don't have money anyway. You won't even be able to live with him/her without money.)

Everything comes down to the money.
"Everything comes down to the air you breathe. If you don't have air, you can't live, so you can't enjoy life. You may counter my arguments with some bullshit about how air alone can't help you enjoy life, but even if you find love, what's the point of it all if you can't breathe?"

Yeah. I don't think of money as some kind of deciding factor in my life. It's not. It's just a resource; a simple necessity to help me acquire the things I want. By itself, no amount of spending power can make me happy, and it's certainly far from being the most important aspect of my life. Happiness comes from playing a good game, or solving a really hard puzzle, or giving someone a hug. If it sounds sappy, deal with it. But above all, it's not going to come without work. And it shouldn't, because the work makes it worth it. An award is just a cheap, gold-painted piece of plastic, and video games are just a bunch of small colorful lights on a screen. It's what you accomplish that makes it worth a damn.
 
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I find it best not to think about these things, it only complicates my life even more and I really don't want that. I like to think of it as always having something to look forward to, always work towards something. When you get that, work towards something else.

Like right now, I can't wait to finish my exams and get back home for winter break. After that, I can't wait to learn ashes in your mouth on guitar, and so on...
 
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By the sound of it, you all seem to be at the same age. Just about to graduate and have loads of time to think of this. By the way, I totally recommend working a while and save for a travel around the world. That would do good for about any human from the western world.
 

dab

dab

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I will have to agree with you there, since I am too good in thinking too far.
But I have to disagree with you on the part where you actually are happy by just working.

Just because I am thinking a lot about life and all of its meanings does not mean the ones that are not thinking is the ones that are happy happy. They are (might) just the ones living in the illusion. They think they are happy, but that is just because they don't think of the life outside the box.

I don't believe you can be happy, however I do believe you can have the illusion of being happy, and that's what we actually define as happiness.
 
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"Everything comes down to the air you breathe. If you don't have air, you can't live, so you can't enjoy life. You may counter my arguments with some bullshit about how air alone can't help you enjoy life, but even if you find love, what's the point of it all if you can't breathe?"

This may come out quite thick-headed. But you do have an infinite amount of air.
Compared to how much money you have.
Take that in mind if you would be reading my following reply to your post.

Yeah. I don't think of money as some kind of deciding factor in my life. It's not. It's just a resource; a simple necessity to help me acquire the things I want...
...and it's certainly far from being the most important aspect of my life.
Simple necessity? Without money you would probably not even live right now.

Happiness comes from playing a good game, or solving a really hard puzzle, or giving someone a hug.

Sure it does. But in order to play the good game, you need the money to buy it first. In order to solve the really hard puzzle, you need the money to buy it first.
Okay, you wouldn't need money to give someone a hug, I'll give you that. And it is the interaction with other people that is most valuable, to me as well.

Sorry for being so persistent. But in a way, you would need money to have someone to hug. Without money you wouldn't be able to go out with friends, sport with friends, do stuff with friends, eat with them. Etc.

You wouldn't need loads of cash for the above things though, or in order to do the things itself, but it still comes down to the money.

If it sounds sappy, deal with it.

I do not find it sound sappy.

But above all, it's not going to come without work. And it shouldn't, because the work makes it worth it.It's what you accomplish that makes it worth a damn.

I do not suggest total anarchy. Or full freedom. I want to work in order to get my dreams fulfilled, the weekends wouldn't be weekends if I don't work or goes to school. They would just be regular days. That would be boring.
The big problem is that the government (at least where I live) force people to work even if they are sick, they remove the availability for students to choose what they want to study, they increase their own salaries and reduce the regular people's. That is my biggest problem.

And the second problem is that everything is so unbelievable expensive.
The reason for it is because most of the rich people/politicians are just the same, greedy, or just plain egoistic.
People in the world are suffering because of this.
I don't get it, why is the rich ones always the worse humans? Is it so easy to get corrupted or devoured by wealth?

By itself, no amount of spending power can make me happy
Saw this sentence when I read your post for the second time. Might have crushed some of my arguments.

I hear myself, and I sound very naive and stupid in some points. Like a five year old that just wants everyone to be happy and nice.
I can't change the global view, or the global economy, or whatever I want to change.
I just wish things were different out in the world. But I guess we all do.
 
i am truly surprised at the number of enlightened people and philosophers on hiveworkshop.

IMO there IS no such thing as a meaning of life. you just live and you die. is there a meaning to the equation "2+2=4"? is there some sort of hidden message? is there some sort of deep and meaningful thought to that equation? its just how it is.
just like life. you live it and then you die. its a statement of fact. life is life. there is no meaning. so dont get depressed, dont get pessimistic. stop worrying your little heads, trying to figure out what the human race has been pondering over its lifetime.

i dont understand you people's fascination anyways with this so-called meaning of life. why does life have to have a meaning? who defined this? who made up this rule?
 
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i dont understand you people's fascination anyways with this so-called meaning of life. why does life have to have a meaning? who defined this? who made up this rule?
What is a "meaning" in the first place? I this context, the "meaning" of life is the same as the "meaning" of a tool. It's our prescribed use, or function of life. The "meaning" of a hammer is to beat in nails. So what is life's use? Why do you use it? This is its meaning.

That being said, life isn't "made", and its meaning differs from person to person. However, at the very base of all things, the meaning of life is self-satisfaction. There is not a single thing you would do that would not ensure that, short term or long term, you are satisfied. You might be wrong in assuming it will make you happy, but you intended for it to do so at the time.
 
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This certainly is a debatable topic.. i think i should stay out of this one... so many opinions... who knows whats right and wrong?? there is no answer.. unless ur answer is completely BS :p
 
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