just one more political gimmit...

[slipshot]

just one more comment...
i wonder if hellochar is a communist sympathizer. just keep in mind that the communist revolution is responsible for the death of 100 million people, the majority of them being jews. getting mad at us for being discriminating?? (if it was discrimination at all) maybe hellochar should rethink his position (which i think you have alrady done since your first post, so thats good). I feel communism is a plague. And by saying this i want to make clear that humans are humans with incomparable value, and by me saying communism is a plague i am nowhere thinking that communist sympathizers are plagues. But what do you guys think? Is communism detremenatal towards not only society, but to mankind as well?

 

[Mecheon]

Oh boo hoo. Just because one attempt at communism failed you say its all bad. Dare I need to point out how attempts at other systems of government have also failed and cost millions of lives? And yes, sure the revolution cost millions of lives, but so did BASICALLY EVERY OTHER REVOLUTION ON EARTH! Most of which were done to remove feudal-system style governments

There's nothing wrong with communism just like there's nothing wrong with capitalism. They're two different systems of government. Whats wrong is the people who put them into action

Communism isn't detremental towards society. It attempts to show that everyone is equal and therefore everyone is entitled to the same things. Unfortunantly, in basically every instance its been used, its become corrupt. Corrupt communism is not normal communism

To summerise, its a good idea on paper but a bad one in practice

 

[Raiju]

Ha! Communism as it is (or was) is obviously bad since it restricts too much personal freedoms and commerce for the better good of the ruling party, which in most of the cases are corrupt

There is nothing wrong with communism, the fact is that the Communism we see (and saw) is NOT the one idealized by Karl Marx

The one Karl Marx idealized is simply, too perfect to exist, so this distorted version of the original communism is what we see (saw)

 

[Ki]

The answer depends on how you approach the question. Was it the people behind the government that cause such failure or was it the actual government?

It is actually the people (or person) behind the government that constitutes its effectiveness. What most consider a "bad" government is the implication of a particular government that has more of a tendency to failure and corruption. If a just and perfect ruler adopted any government, he would be successful none the less. It is not included in any government that the ultimate goal is to achieve failure.

Communism is considered bad because it allows easy access to corruption as the people are portrayed as a whole and one class. Did Karl Marx ever hope for communism to limit freedom of speech and repitively prove itself "bad"? I think not.

Karl Marx observed the problems of the time and acted on it through the Communist Manifesto, but failed to rule out the flaws of his thinking. It was mainly his extreme versus the accepted extreme of the time. What most countries have now is a medium between these two extremes.

 

[VGsatomi]

Dare I need to point out how attempts at other systems of government have also failed and cost millions of lives?

Millions? Yes. But a hundred million...?

Communism isn't detremental towards society.

Perhaps look at the "before" and "after" stories of Russia. Korea. Vietnam. Cambodia. Cuba...

Corrupt communism is not normal communism

Given how rare non-corrupt communist governments there are, I beg to differ. In fact, can anyone name EVEN ONE non-corrupt communismt regime? I cant think of a single one. EVERY communist dictator uses their national trasury as their own provate checking account. So the money that is supposed to be equally distributed to the people is only making their leaders fat. You do not see that in capitalist countries.

Wars commenced by communits leaders and starvation brought on by the failure of communism has killed over 100 million people since founded by Karl Marx. Communism has effecticly turned every country that adopted it into an opprissive, poverty stricken hellhole. The only exception to this would be China, but that is because they

*drumroll*

ADOPTED CAPITALISM. They call it "socialism with a chinese twist" (but its still capitalism). Communism only works in theory, and never in pracital application. It could, except for the fact that communisl leaders always wield absolute power, and they use that power to their advantage to squash politcal dissent, sensor the media to protect their own legitimacy from opposing ideas, put a tight cap on free speech for the same reasons, and suck up all the wealth for themselves and their heirs. The whole concept of socialsm is for the purpose of eliminating socio-economic classes. They do this bt abolishing private propertiy and making all farmlands and workplaces shared by the workers who live in the area. The people are given quotas on how much they must produce within a given time period, and then what is collected is equally distributed out to everyone (minus the leadership who hogs most of it). Everyone is supposed to have a job and earn the same wages, so there is no rich and no poor. (the driving force behind Karl Marx's ideal was that the rich were exploiting the poor). However, that is not how it works. WHen you have a system where every bit of work you do is equally distributed, what does that mean for those who put in extra work? It means more gets taken away. People have less incentive to work harder then those around them since they cannot reap the extra awards like you can ion a capitalist society. Capitalism rewards those who put forth the extra effort. ALso, under communism, there cannot be commercial warfare. There isnonly 1 brand of everything, which eliminates progress through competition (i mean, how many times have you seen stores lower their prices or try to develope better products to compete with competators?). That doesnt happen in communism.

Then there's the communist governments. Take North Korea for a shining example. Here is some of the antics of Kim Jong Ill;

-Payed 25 million to ship over US wresiting stars to perform for him in his palace

-Has over 10,000 bottles of the most expensive French wine

-Every meal is a $1000+ delicacy (its part of his cult of personality)

-owns his own CRUISE SHIP (which they call a yacht, but literally the size of a luxery cruise ship)

-Goes on random spending ventures that cost tens of millions

-Ingrediants are flown in from all around the world, and chefs from all around the world are brought to his palace to cook his meals.

-Has a fleet of over 200 limos and a hundred sports cars

-His own palace how extensive military protection that rivals that of the pentegon.

-Built a nuclear weapons program

-Built up a military of over 1 million, effectivly removing most of the adult male workforce from the fields.

Now keep in mind that this is on taxpayer money and going on while 4 million people have starved to death in his own country since he took power. Would you consider this to be class exploitation? Is this not what communism was created to eliminate? All in all communism the one of the worlds largest contridictions. The people break their back so their leaders can drink French Cognac every night. For a system that is supposed to eliminate the class stuggle, you see no bigger class distinction and exploitation. Now thats just exploitation. Now lets get into oppression. A shining examle is China. You are not allowed to protest against the government. Material that criticizes the communist government is prohibited. All media, whether the internet, television, radio, newspapers, all must be filtered through a propaganda department so that conflicting ideas can be removed and more healthy. pro-communist rhetoric can be put in place instead. Criminals are hardly given anything that remotely resembles a "trial". and appeals are nothing more then the defendants cries for help as he's drug out back and shot after the gavel comes down. Seperate political parties must adhere to communism, and political dissent is an arrestable offense.

Honestly, does 100 years of communist failure mean nothing? It does not work. Plain and simple.

-VGsatomi

 

[VGsatomi]

Oh yes, and if in case you cannot tell, I'm a staunch anti-communist. (which is one reason I'm keeping my yap closed when I go work in China in a few months.

Oh, and slipshot, please read the rules before posting next time. Political topics are now allowed. Why? because people like me will go into a stark, raving mad rant very easily. Like you just saw.

Other forbidden topics are religion and other things that are sensative and could easily offend certain people if brought up.

Locked.
-VGsatomi