Northrend Bound v1.85

[Wark]

Version 1.1 out early, featuring:
- Bandit techtree, improved diplomacy system, "-cam" command and random events.
Let me know how this works!

 

[hypsandar]

Beautiful map, really. Do you plan to add an AI in the future updates?

 

[Wark]

Do you plan to add an AI in the future updates?

Yes, it's on my "to do" list. I plan to make computer players act like bandits.

Some people are telling me there are some crashing issues on start up. I'm going to release a fix and see if that solves it.

EDIT:
Changed some things with the initialisation triggers to make the start run smoother.
If you are crashing when the map loads:
1) Exit Warcraft 3: The Frozen Throne
2) Download the map
3) Put map into: "C:\Users\Documents\Warcraft III\Maps\Download"
4) Now open Warcraft 3: The Frozen Throne. Desync problem solved!

 

[War_man]

v1.11 bug report

I hope that I didn't miss message with report of these bugs:

1. If any player reaches 50,000 gold, game spams message every few seconds accompanied with actor voice.
2. If you use Talk ability on bribed traveller, he drops invisible item.
3. After declaring war/canceling it has countdown till next use. What if you're being attacked or plan to attack 2 players at once? You won't be able to do it quick.

Spoiler: Economic victory and Bribe-talk bug

 

[Wark]

report of these bugs:

1. OK, something seems broken there. I'll get on to fixing that.
2. It's good to hear some feedback on the espionage units! Now, I originally put in a trigger to disable that item so you can't abuse talking to "slaves." It seems that condition did not work properly.
3. Honestly, I'm open for suggestions in terms of diplomacy. I just made it have a 2 minute cooldown because the other options are like that. What kind of cooldown do you think it reasonable?

Have you noticed anything else that needs work/improving?

EDIT:
It seems like you bribed the "Talk" right out of him!

 

[War_man]

1. OK, something seems broken there. I'll get on to fixing that.
2. It's good to hear some feedback on the espionage units! Now, I originally put in a trigger to disable that item so you can't abuse talking to "slaves." It seems that condition did not work properly.
3. Honestly, I'm open for suggestions in terms of diplomacy. I just made it have a 2 minute cooldown because the other options are like that. What kind of cooldown do you think it reasonable?

Have you noticed anything else that needs work/improving?

EDIT:
It seems like you bribed the "Talk" right out of him!

When you bribe traveller you become able to control him as it should be, but he still has "Talk" ability. When you click on it, it drops that invisible item.

• I've tried to use "Steal" spell like 30 times on different units, but couldn't get anything.

Yes, it's on my "to do" list. I plan to make computer players act like bandits.

Some people are telling me there are some crashing issues on start up. I'm going to release a fix and see if that solves it.

EDIT:
Changed some things with the initialisation triggers to make the start run smoother.
If you are crashing when the map loads:
1) Exit Warcraft 3: The Frozen Throne
2) Download the map
3) Put map into: "C:\Users\Documents\Warcraft III\Maps\Download"
4) Now open Warcraft 3: The Frozen Throne. Desync problem solved!

After warcraft patches all players should have new downloaded maps from lobby located in that directory, but every Northrend Bound game I host I lose like 3-4 players. They get disconnected at start of the game. The funniest thing is that I had that issue once too.

 

[Wark]

I lose like 3-4 players. They get disconnected at start of the game

The issue with disconnecting on start-up is that they need the map first now.
I talked with a different player, and he said it's mostly just a desync error. It's got nothing to do with the map itself.

I tried it out with some other people and a new version.
Sure enough, they disconnect on start up when they download the map from a host on Battle.net.
Started another game again after they restarted, and it works fine.

 

[Kazeon]

I used to play FotN a while back, not really a big fan tho. And I have just tried this one too.
I'm failed to see which part is the "remake"? I saw exactly the same terrain, same activities and jobs, etc. Maybe it's just me not exploring FotN well enough. But I'm curious what's actually new/different in this map?

 

[Wark]

Well, I will admit I made the starting town quite similar to the original. That is for a tribute to one of my favourite maps.
Otherwise, the terrain and layout is completely different.

The main differences are how weapons change your skills, there's more RPG elements, magic's a thing, crafting's extensive, each race has a different techtree, different lore, and there's a handy-dandy backpack/packhorse with auto-loot for item management.
It's also built from scratch, and I plan to develop it further.
There's just some things FotN never added and never finished. I plan to finish it.

 

[Kazeon]

Ah, I see. I only played FotN until I married a women but she was kind of b**** so I dumped her and stopped playing (jk).

Anyway, those sound like some real improvements. Good luck with it.

 

[War_man]

Ah, I see. I only played FotN until I married a women but she was kind of b**** so I dumped her and stopped playing (jk).

Anyway, those sound like some real improvements. Good luck with it.

I've played FotN for some time, but the thing is that it's way too easy to play it. I would say that it contains a lot more features and balance or at least I feel so, but development has stopped, as I know. First thing I tried to do in Northrend Bound was trading, I never felt so bad Even when I figured out how it works, I couldn't make even half of that amount of gold what I was making in FotN, not even close. It's way more hardcore.


It's great that @Wark took the initiative and decided to make a refresh with future continuation. I hope that he won't stop working on this map.

 

[War_man]

I'm adding/suggesting latest versions of the map to entgaming and makemehost for best gaming experience and to grow audience. More bug reports, more suggestions.

 

[Wark]

OK, thank you War_man. I appreciate that. After a series of updates while testing with my mates, this version seems pretty stable and better balanced for bandit play.
I fixed those bugs you mentioned earlier, and made "Steal" much more viable as a denial tactic or income source. Someone also got very angry at how overpowered the patrolling soldiers were, so I nerfed them too.

Could you also reference this forum for suggestions? I only use Hive.

 

[War_man]

It's nice to see such an operative work, good job!
Sure, no problem.

 

[Wark]

Great. Next update will be bosses and global events.
I've got a couple mini-bosses in dungeons and random events, but nothing "special" ... yet. Give me a couple weeks.

 

[Ardenaso]

I think its time you make the buildings and the town halls capturable. Also, the Thieves' Guild isn't selling items and I can't access to items without getting risked killed in cities.

 

[Wark]

I think its time you make the buildings and the town halls capturable

By this, do you mean towns or other players' town halls?

I do have plans for making towns capturable. It involves that arena looking place in that northern part of the map.
Think of it like an instanced duelling zone where you fight against a town commander/mayor and their guard.

However, I am not sure if it'll come out in the next update.
I have been having complications on figuring out the bandit's AI. Single player options and bosses are my priority right now.


EDIT:
Version 1.19 out now, featuring: computer player AI!
All computer player slots now spawn in an autonomous, filthy bandit to pillage your lands.
Multiple AI bandits in single player can prove rather challenging!
Also added minimap icons to better indicate dungeon and town locations.

 

[War_man]

I've added 2 computer players, one of them acts normally, but other one keeps dying all the time. He stars to attack traveller and when traveller enters town with defense towers, bandit AI just tries to pass all town, but of course get's killed.

Added computer to all slots, problems seems to be with all AI located close to neutral force towns.
Blue, purple and pink dies really quick at start. After they revive heroes, they send them to towns again, but this time they lose some hp from towers, falls back, but guards keeps following them. After short chase they get killed, lol.

• If player kills bandit unit/hero, he could get rewarded with reputation points.

 

[Wark]

one of them acts normally, but other one keeps dying all the time

Working as intended. They're designed to be stupid bandits.
They've got a different type of economy system from the player, and their hero costs nothing to revive.
Over time, they really build up to the point where they just walk into a town with their full force and kill everything but the towers - since they're invulnerable.

I am thinking about changing them to target player bases more often.
As for defeating them, they do give reputation as a reward.
If you're in single player with only bandits, defeating all of them counts as a conquest victory.

EDIT:
- Updated bandit AI, fixed auto-fishing and removed a massive memory leak problem.

 

[Ardenaso]

The ruined village below the snow town has NPCs

The ruined village by the Smuggler's Den could be the "bandit village" instead, made with ogre, goblin and human NPCs who sells items for bandits. This bandit village is like the city AI except all non-bandits are enemies to it and all bandits are allied to it.

 

[cleavinghammer]

The hero uses the Priest death sound regardless of race.

Tried to attack a minotaur, and while running away it actually followed me into my base and destroyed it (other Corrupt Forces returned to their positions afterwards). Got a "Corrupt Forces won by conquest" message when it destroyed my inn (although by that point I had a Great Hall).

Town center buildings should revive heroes.

If quests don't allow regular units to come along (as far as I can tell, only heroes and dogs are allowed), it should say so.

Dog's autopickup should be enabled from the start.

You can win by conquest in 1P by demolishing your own tent.

Fishing boats count as idling workers when fishing.

Put an option to turn off fish catching messages.

Pack horses count as idle workers and use the Kodo Beast icon.

Game crashed, as far as I can tell it wasn't because of a spell.

Is there a way to get units to hunt animals (that is, so that they leave hides and meat)?

Firepit should have more than two item slots, or a way to cook multiple food stacks so it doesn't end up piled outside the firepit.

Maybe give the firepit Immolation, so early bases aren't entirely undefended.

Vault hurts allies. What better way to make friends than to kill a child while catching up to a caravan?

Fishing boats (actually, production units/buildings) should have a dump all items command.

Tree of Life can't be repaired. And then later it can. Also, it was under attack by a deer at some point, is that supposed to happen? Does it count as a crop?

Ancient Protector and Lamp Post both have P as the hotkey.

Will there be a way to automate barn animals? Like, make shearing and slaughtering autocast at 100 mana, give a thug the auto-pickup ability so he can pick up produce, unpicked-up eggs become chickens, etc.

It'd be nice if the bosses had a little more personality to them, or if the quest givers reacted to your beating them.

 

[Ardenaso]

I destroyed my tent while my hero is inside a fishing boat (i wanted to start a base on the bottom left continent) and I got defeated, losing all my hardworked gold.

 

[Insanity_AI]

Bug Reports:

1. Game crashed after 3 hours of gameplay. Not exactly known what caused it (crash, hence no replay)
2. The demolish tent/inn while hero in transport unit bug is still there.
3. Immolation spell, is active even after the fire magic spell has been dropped from inventory. Draining mana and dealing damage. Just no deactivation until the fire magic item has been re-added to inventory.
4. A really bad exploit, will PM.

 

[Wark]

The hero uses the Priest death sound regardless of race.

The death sound comes with the model, and I can't change that unfortunately. I know nothing about editing models.

It shouldn't defeat you if you lose your inn and you have a hero out with Great Hall. I'll have to check the town hall detection trigger.
Same with the tent thing.
As for hunting, I intentionally made it so that the kill must be made by a hero in order to gain the resources.
Vault's a touchy thing, and the NPCs don't count as allies. They're more neutral. I have been thinking about making them count as allies if you get above "admired" with them.
And yes, the "ancients" count as plants. It's the check I used to make deer or rabbits automatically target crops. I may make them non-ancients so that animals aren't so suicidal.
And yes, I made pack horses, fishing boats, and spies all count as "workers" to make it easier to find them.

I am currently working on the bosses. All bosses on the map are just placeholders for now.

I destroyed my tent while my hero is inside a fishing boat (i wanted to start a base on the bottom left continent) and I got defeated

I'll change the condition to check if your hero is alive. Right now it checks if the hero is in the playable map area, so that might fix it.
That is not intentional.

Game crashed after 3 hours of gameplay.

This has been plaguing me for a while. I suspect is it a periodic trigger that's causing it, possibly the backpack or fishing boats.
Was anyone using fishing boats on the map?


My suspect for the crash: I think it has something to do with a static unit group.
I really need some advice some things from people who are better at coding than me.

 

[joss2704]

Hello, i've been playing this map since 3 updates and i wanted to report a bug... a friend discovered it, if you could fix it, that'd be cool, if you buy just 1 Leather belt, Bracers of agility or pilgrims scarf and go reforge it, it'll give you 50 gold each time just that, the map is awesome, i was hoping to get a FOTN fanmade update.. without the bug/exploit, i'd give this map 10/10

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet

 

[Peaces]

Hey, can you add the buildings which gives the option of having units recruited with food and type of unit with no food but with extra cost and time?

 

[Wark]

can you add the buildings which gives the option of having units recruited with food and type of unit with no food but with extra cost and time?

Do you mean like, mercenaries for hire?

 

[Peaces]

Do you mean like, mercenaries for hire?

Yeah but instead of using food it will decrease a small amount of gold in time or just too expensive but does not cost food.

 

[Wark]

Well, that is sort of the idea of that one northern Mercenary Camp in the Orc town.
I was planning on putting some interesting mercenary units in there.

 

[Insanity_AI]

Nobody was using any fishing boats, only zeppelins and shredders. (regarding hireable units)

 

[Graflar]

I'm having some issues with crashes occurring during single player. I have 2 computer AI bandit players enabled and whenever I enter a bandit base and attack wc3 crashes. It's very random when the crash occurs. Sometimes it will occur just by walking into a bandit base, or when I destroy a building, or kill an enemy bandit hero, or when the enemy bandit hero revives. I'm not too sure on what the exact cause is. The AI bandit heroes are level 50 (max level?), I'm not sure if that has any bearing on the problem.

I've always been a fan of FoTN and was disappointed when development stopped. I'm very impressed by what I've seen so far in your map. I love the crafting system you implemented, it's very fun and intuitive. I'm looking forward to future updates

 

[Wark]

Thanks Graflar, others also noticed the crashing issue related to bandit bases. I think it has something to do with an ability and the triggers I used for the AI.
I am currently testing my fixes, and will keep everyone posted.

EDIT:
Version 1.24:
- Banished defeat from demolishing a tent while in a transport
- Fixed conquest victory from AI
- Furry critters no longer suicide against ancients (even though it was hilarious)
- Nerfed bandit AI income, nerfed ginseng and caravans slightly
- Fixed reforge bug, fixed obelisk of help exp
- Increased fish required for "master angler," fishing boats now don't spam messages, increased fishing boat and firepit inventory, added a "drop all" ability to boats and pack horses
- Improved code efficiency all around

BUG: The game crashes with AI when you enter certain computer base locations, or if there's more than 2 computer players
I know the problem is caused by the AI script.
I have no idea how to fix it. If anyone is good at the AI editor and knows what the problem is, I'd appreciate the help.

 

[cleavinghammer]

I played with four AIs and had no crash. Then again, I only beat one of them so far.

 

[Wark]

I played with four AIs and had no crash

For me, it's mixed. It might be since I used cheats to test the AI? I don't know.
I noticed I crashed when I entered blue's base location, and red's, after defeating purple and orange.
Maybe those bandit AI players need more open space.

All I know is that I was able to repeat the same crash.

 

[cleavinghammer]

I played as blue, beat red (except for a few units and their hero), purple, yellow and pink are still alive (and pink will just not die).

 

[Wark]

and pink will just not die

Heh, do you mean it is persistent, or they are not getting defeated even with their base gone?
And, do the AI attack you?

 

[cleavinghammer]

No, I mean their hero keeps Holy Lighting his units just as they're about to die.

Yes, they do attack, that's not a problem.

 

[Wark]

Alright, good. I want the AI to be annoying. They're bandits after all!

 

[monkeyboy15]

So evil....

 

[cleavinghammer]

Fishing boats from the Smuggler's Den tend to get stuck behind the rocks.

Achievements should be clickable before you get them so you can keep track of how many more actions you need to perform.

 

[Lil Emo Prince]

This game is like the update of FotN that we've long been waiting for! It's great that you've kept the elements and map design of FotN and added more features, I personally like the different types of magic. I hope you make the villagers neutral like the earlier versions, the announcer keeps spamming "Our allied town is being attacked," whenever the zombies spawn at night, *spoiler alert* and it makes travelling easier with reveal and a quarterstaff (mass teleport spell) I hope you spice up the game after you've completed your plans.

 

[Peaces]

Hey, I found a bug. when you are killed and revived the bag's auto-pick up ability doesn't work.

 

[Lil Emo Prince]

This game is like the update of FotN that we've long been waiting for! It's great that you've kept the elements and map design of FotN and added more features, I personally like the different types of magic. I hope you make the villagers neutral like the earlier versions, the announcer keeps spamming "Our allied town is being attacked," whenever the zombies spawn at night, *spoiler alert* and it makes travelling easier with reveal and a quarterstaff (mass teleport spell) I hope you spice up the game after you've completed your plans.

Also I think you should make the base damage constant when unarmed. Instead of making .5 dmg per str I think it should be .5 dmg resistance to make str heroes tankier instead of turning them to tank/dps types. It makes agi type's auto attack dmg rather weak compared to str types. I tried fighting a Orc with tier 3 mail, greaves, helm, shield, lion signet, and axe with an elf with tier 3 assasin blade, main gauche, bear leather, helm of kings, boots for agi, and lion signet. He can see me on stealth mode even if we were at war, and his damage output both in normal attacks and skills are just too strong. I think it makes str > agi types even in dungeons because of their survivability and dmg output.

 

[Lil Emo Prince]

Iron and Mithril deposit on north west cannot be harvested by quarries. Mirror Images disable the backpack.

 

[Wark]

when you are killed and revived the bag's auto-pick up ability doesn't work

Yea, I know about that. You'll have to right-click it again to reactivate it. I think I'll add that info on that ability.

I tried fighting a Orc with tier 3 mail, greaves, helm, shield, lion signet, and axe with an elf with tier 3 assasin blade, main gauche, bear leather, helm of kings, boots for agi, and lion signet. He can see me on stealth mode even if we were at war

Now, balance is important, I agree. And, I am aware that strength heroes get a damage advantage.
That's why I made Agility weapons have more damage output (assassin's blade has +40 at tier 3 with crit strike, others have +25)
For the stealth detection, all heroes have a passive to see invisible units that are right next to them. I may reduce that detection radius further to make you rely more on torches to see invisible units.
Now, as for Agility survival:
What do you think about increases the evasion Agility gives? Right now, it's a .75% chance per 1 Agility. 1% per 1 Agility though, that'd be like . . . up to 75% chance to evade attacks at max level if you stack nothing but Agility.
Also, what do you think about the Crossbow or Musket weapons for Agility heroes? Have you tried fighting a warrior with those?

Mirror images always creates problems. I'll check it again. It's just the way illusions affect my weapon system.
Thank you for letting me know about the mines not giving ore.

EDIT:
Ooo, yea. Quarries are broken. They ain't mining, I put them in the wrong group when reorganizing things.
Version 1.25 will fix quarries and that backpack issue. And remove those computer players I had for test purposes . . .

 

[Lil Emo Prince]

Yea, I know about that. You'll have to right-click it again to reactivate it. I think I'll add that info on that ability.


Now, balance is important, I agree. And, I am aware that strength heroes get a damage advantage.
That's why I made Agility weapons have more damage output (assassin's blade has +40 at tier 3 with crit strike, others have +25)
For the stealth detection, all heroes have a passive to see invisible units that are right next to them. I may reduce that detection radius further to make you rely more on torches to see invisible units.
Now, as for Agility survival:
What do you think about increases the evasion Agility gives? Right now, it's a .75% chance per 1 Agility. 1% per 1 Agility though, that'd be like . . . up to 75% chance to evade attacks at max level if you stack nothing but Agility.
Also, what do you think about the Crossbow or Musket weapons for Agility heroes? Have you tried fighting a warrior with those?

Mirror images always creates problems. I'll check it again. It's just the way illusions affect my weapon system.
Thank you for letting me know about the mines not giving ore.

EDIT:
Ooo, yea. Quarries are broken. They ain't mining, I put them in the wrong group when reorganizing things.
Version 1.25 will fix quarries and that backpack issue. And remove those computer players I had for test purposes . . .

Thank you for the fast response!
Of course I've taken the 75% evasion in agility into consideration and I also think it can be a good counterpart against the raw brawn power of STR heroes. However, what can evasion do if Skills also scale with points of STR? Even with a bow or the musket a Vault (Spear Skill) can make up to close the gap and immobilize the MS buff of AGI, and shockwave (which scales with STR) will deal crippling damage to the an AGI hero. Not to mention the disables of a Storm hammer or the Shield. On the other hand bursting an STR hero with AGI skills is quite hard because of the HP they gain from stacking STR. Bottom line is Stacking STR makes your skills scale and your HP tougher thereby making you a Caster DPS/Tank. Which is why I suggest making some of the spell damages of STR weapons scale with INT instead. Except for the obviously physical skills which a minor nerf would suffice. I'm hoping for more updates to come! Oh and nice Skyrim references with the guards haha.

 

[Wark]

I've got an idea.
What if I reduce the requirements for agility based gear, while buffing the evasion from Agility?
For example, t1 = 10 agility, t2 = 20 agility, t3 = 30 agility. (thinking dagger and armor here)
I'll reduce that passive true sight radius, too, to give them more opportunities to stealth away.

EDIT:
Decided just to buff INT and AGI's defensive stats. Spell Resist, Critical Strike and Evasion will now be 1% per 1 point, up to 40 points. After 40 points, it will be half the bonus. This will count with accessories boosting stats.

 

[Ardenaso]

Can you also make the buildings with foundation (Barns, Farm, Granary) to straighten up on noisy terrain?

 

[Graflar]

Do heroes need passive stealth detection? I'd argue that if you were going to play a rogue/thief type character you're at a disadvantage. I was just checking all the races to see how many of them have some form of reveal and the list is as follows.

Humans: Reveal ability on arcane towers
Orc: Farseer hero has wolf summons with true sight
Elf: Oracles (druid of talons) have true sight while in raven form
Undead: Shades have true sight
Dwarves: Have gyrocopters with true sight

In addition taverns sell dust of appearance and the dog summoned by the dog whistle accessory also has true sight.

I'm okay with the idea of there being counters to stealth/invisibility but I feel like if an enemy hero is wandering around without dust or a unit with reveal they're just asking to get ganked by stealthies.

In the early game heroes can defend themselves with dust or the dog whistle and then generate the proper units with reveal to counter.

Following up on what Lil emo prince was saying about strength heroes having an advantage over agility heroes. One solution to increasing survivability for agility heroes would be to make it so every 5 points of agility also increases armor by one point (as an example).

 

[Wark]

In the early game heroes can defend themselves with dust or the dog whistle

Don't forget torches, too.
I agree, the passive stealth detection isn't necessary on heroes anymore. I had it in earlier test versions because I thought it would be neat.
I've fixed quarries, removed hero stealth detection, adjusted hero stats, buffed armor for agility and intelligence gear, and fixed other misc. bugs reported.

Can you also make the buildings with foundation (Barns, Farm, Granary) to straighten up on noisy terrain?

I'll make note of it, I know what you mean. I can put that in later with the town-conquering systems. Feel free to remind me of it if I forget!


I apologize for the rapid updates over the past few days.
I just wanted everything for AI and multiplayer to be bug-free before I start work on bosses.
Next update will probably be in a couple (2 - 3) of weeks. I do not want "tank and spank" bosses. Them be boring.