Northrend Bound v1.85

[cleavinghammer]

Use them next to the dungeon gates.

 

[Insanity_AI]

Or just cheat your way and blink through them.

 

[cleavinghammer]

Will offhands and guns eventually be upgradeable via forging?

Idea:
* Make some "ultimate" items that require more than just crafting to improve. For example, get X kills with a weapon to unlock its first spell and lets you upgrade it to T2, Y kills with the first spell to unlock the second spell and allows T3 upgrade, and Z kills (from attacking and from both spells) lets you upgrade it to T4 (by unlocking it or by giving you the otherwise-unobtainable crafting ingredient).
* Make achievements clickable so as to know how many more fish/treasure/conversations/etc. you need.

 

[Wark]

Make some "ultimate" items that require more than just crafting to improve.

I like this suggestion and will add it to my bucket list.
Apparently there's some problems with random zombies on the map. I'll be releasing a hotfix after work today.

 

[SlumberTurtle]

I have a suggestion.
When a player makes some progress towards victory, send warning message to all players. For example, when a player has 80,000 gold, a warning message may be sent to all players.

 

[cleavinghammer]

Also, while the map is still in testing, maybe have some commands to enter to spawn events (spider/minotaur, bandits, skeletons...)

Trade ships that are used for transport stay where they are. And shouldn't they sell items (at least the more exotic ones like ginseng or silk)?

I've seen several ankhs drop from the herald bosses and promptly disappear (none of my units take them).
Are there multiple unique drops from every boss or just one?

 

[Wark]

When a player makes some progress towards victory, send warning message to all players. For example, when a player has 80,000 gold, a warning message may be sent to all players.

I've got that for conquest, but not heroic. It'd be a good idea for heroic victory. Economic victory? Nope. There's spies for that.

I've seen several ankhs drop from the herald bosses and promptly disappear (none of my units take them).
Are there multiple unique drops from every boss or just one?

I may have forgotten a function for charged items dropped. That explains the anhk disappearing. And yes, each boss has 2 unique drops so far. I will add more later, maybe even suggestions.

I've got 1 trade ship moving around islands, while one stays at Cavalon to ferry people to the mainland if they spawn there. They have the "marketplace" ability, which causes them to stock random items that other players sell. I'm not sure if that's working properly.

 

[cleavinghammer]

Well, I've only ever played in single player, so that would explain the lack of items. And why I only ever spawn in the starter town (maybe you could have another dialog box at the start to choose/randomize the starting town/location?).

Craft Soul Reaper has a green DISBTN.
In the mines (and possibly elsewhere), Clockwork goblins die before their timer is up for some reason.
Speaking of the mines: Enemies that spam Frost Nova, Frost Bolt and Healing Wave, with at least three of each (And three bandit lords). And each clump of enemies comes to the other's help from halfway across the mines. How exactly are we supposed to get through?
Backpack autopickup sometimes stops working. Usually running over items is enough to pick them up, but sometimes it fails (even with an empty inventory).

Idea:
* Miner unit: give him a shovel and an inventory and he autodigs for treasure.
* Coalmaker's hut: regularly produces coal, consuming 1 wood for every coal produced.

 

[Wark]

And each clump of enemies comes to the other's help from halfway across the mines. How exactly are we supposed to get through?

Do you use "iseedeadpeople" when playing single player? The computer also takes advantage of the map reveal.
However, there shouldn't be 3 bandit lords in the mines. That's odd.

 

[cleavinghammer]

No, I didn't, I think you might have left their acquisition ranges to 600 (for instance, one of the wizards overlooking the southern entrance comes to help the first group, and the ranged kobolds near the waterfall can throw attacks through/over cliffs near the heretic and cryomancer chokepoint.

I think what happened is that the "bandits fortifying the mines" trigger includes the units inside the mines. Unless you intended for there to be three goddamn steam golems at once. It seems the other dungeons had something similar happen.

Do Blood Moon zombies attack one location in particular? Because I was still finding some wandering through 24 hours after it ended.

Are the nightly graveyard zombies gone?

 

[Wark]

Yea, I removed the graveyard zombies because it was causing some issues with random neutral zombies. The blood moon zombies actually attack random locations, mostly towns or bases.
There definitely should not be 3 steam golems.

 

[cleavinghammer]

Shield bash sometimes sends both basher and bashed in the same direction.

Orc reavers either have Cleaving Attack already researched or the disbtn is the same as the ability button.

On a new game, saw the message, looked in the mine with isdp, except there were no units in the mine whatsoever. I dunno. On the previous run the forest had similar problems, but the island had a hell of a lot more skeletons (but just one boss).


Is there a limit on stats improving abilities, or a point at which there's no real gain?

 

[Wark]

I can't seem to replicate the problem. How long into the game was it? What were you doing at that moment?
It is possible that the uploaded file is corrupt, too.

EDIT:
There is a limit to improving abilities, yes.
They don't gain any more benefit from stats past 60 points in an attribute for now.
This is mostly to reduce loading times.

 

[cleavinghammer]

It was a while into it (had two heroes as a bandit and done the Blood Moon), but I'm fairly certain the reinforcement message came up at least twice. I'll keep at it, I think I might have something.

 

[cleavinghammer]

Found it: If you use lightsout to go back into the cave without waiting for another day to pass, it respawns every unit on top of the previous units that weren't dead. Challenge seekers, you know what to do.

You can murder someone in front of a guard and they don't react before you reach Hated level.
Evil forces and undead show up as gray on the minimap, same as townsfolk.

 

[Wark]

I apologise for the series of rapid uploads. I had to make sure version 1.33 was not corrupted in any way.
Happy gaming!

 

[Graflar]

Clicking on the dwarven garrison (tier 2 townhall) crashes the game.

You can't hire shredders or shipwrights at the newly added northern smuggler's den. You get the message "A newly constructed unit has no room to be placed."

After casting the arcane missiles ability from the quarterstaff your hero remains in a casting animation even after the ability finishes. Your hero wont auto attack and will stand there until you issue another command such as move attack etc.

Would you consider allowing the troll hunter merc unit, hired in the north, the ability to harvest pelts and meat from wildlife they kill similar to the dog? They seem like the perfect unit suited to it.

 

[SlumberTurtle]

Hi. Need some balance. The Blood Moon is too easy while the dungeon bosses are too hard. Blood Moon currently is more like free gold and exp and it doesn't have much other impact. It might be better if the zombies are stronger and capable of completely destroy a few players' entire base.

I played with another player who used bandit. He was able to get 100k gold within 90min. I suggest either some nerf, or add some strong neutral enemies that make survival much harder. (making Blood Moon harder is one option).

 

[cleavinghammer]

^^ Oh, so it's not just me. It also has a green button.

^ Maybe if they went into the player's base?

 

[Wark]

Hotfix v1.34:
Fixed that crash with the dwarven garrison, the icon was still corrupted.
Changed zombies: increased level, hp, and damage slightly; changed armor type to "Large," nerfed their gold reward. Changed zombie AI.
Moved that Smuggler's Den in the north. Troll Hunters can now hunt animals.

 

[cleavinghammer]

Mercenary camp would be more useful if it wasn't inside the orc camp, maybe have it more in the open or have another one in the south (replacing with forest trolls if needed).

Had two bandit players, killed one, and Agatha's gargoyles killed the other. This caused them to win.
Does a bandit victory go to the player with the most bandits killed, or the last-killing one?

Bandit hero's bounty remains at +50 regardless of his level, is that normal?

Inns should sell beer.

It turns out that if you remove a hero's shield while in Defend, he continues moving slowly (I didn't check to see if he still repelled projectiles). Re-equipping the shield allows you to remove Defend. So if anyboy's ever curious as to why their hero is dragging himself along...

Conjurers only seem to get extra HP from caster upgrades. Maybe you could give them a fourth spell depending on player race/banditry?

If one hero is already inside a dungeon, the camera shouldn't jump to the second hero entering it.

I don't know if you can do anything about it, but lumber gatherers tend to ignore regrown trees, often in favor of trees on the top/bottom of cliffs that make them take huge detours to gather.

Does bandit AI work differently for each player? I'm looking at one who hasn't gone past a single hideout, thieves' guild and blacksmith, while another seems to have researched everything but mangonels.

 

[Wark]

Had two bandit players, killed one, and Agatha's gargoyles killed the other. This caused them to win.
Does a bandit victory go to the player with the most bandits killed, or the last-killing one?

So, the bandit player was defeated, and the bandits won?
Technically, you should win a conquest victory if you were still alive. The way conquest should work is that the last one standing is the winner.
Was it AI or a player?

I believe bandit AI and activity depends on how many things they kill. This directly affects their income. The more they kill, the more they earn. So yea, their location would affect this.

The camera thing with heroes and lumber gatherers going for regrown trees would be difficult to change.

And yes, all heroes give a bounty reward of 50 gold. It's set in the object editor.
I am thinking about adding an extra bounty for Bandit heroes that depends on level and reputation.

 

[cleavinghammer]

^ No, the last AI bandit was defeated, and Roaming Dead won.

As for the low-level bandits, I found the explanation: the stupid bastards built their hut so the reviving hero was stuck between a cliff and a tree, so he could only ever go leveling when the tree got cut down.

The outer parts of Agatha's castle are walkable, so she sometimes summons vampires that get stuck inside.


Got a crash a few seconds after the start of the Blood Moon.

 

[Lil Emo Prince]

Scorch couldn't be used even on lesser dungeon mobs. I don't know if this is intentional but it beats the function of its silence effects if you couldn't even silence those dungeon mages or healers. I think it should just have a lesser effect duration on elites and bosses.

EDIT: It doesn't work at wolves too.

 

[Lil Emo Prince]

The northern smugglers' den isn't pinged by the goblin laboratories unlike the western one.

 

[Lil Emo Prince]

Who would win?
A Grand Magus with a wide spell arsenal that has a spell which can purge debuffs through mirror images, a high burst red lighting spell, rune shield that grants a moment of invulnerability which is combined with a ground decay, and a spell that makes it rain greek fire in a wide area of effect
OR
Some punk with an oversized shuriken and a shield you can hire at the Arcane Sanctum? Lol I feel bad for revealing this exploit.

 

[cleavinghammer]

Not much of an exploit, it still takes a while to kill him.

-

Recipe book and Alchemy book have the same tooltips.

 

[Wark]

Who would win?
A Grand Magus with a wide spell arsenal that has a spell which can purge debuffs through mirror images, a high burst red lighting spell, rune shield that grants a moment of invulnerability which is combined with a ground decay, and a spell that makes it rain greek fire in a wide area of effect
OR
Some punk with an oversized shuriken and a shield you can hire at the Arcane Sanctum? Lol I feel bad for revealing this exploit.

LOL, that was rich. I laughed at this for a solid 5 minutes, due to how ridiculous that really is.
You got a point there. Same can be said about the crossbreed deer-elf with a rock tied to the end of a stick.

I can fix those tooltips, pathing issues, and pings, as well as change Scorch completely. The spell it's based off is not that good.
I am not sure what would cause a crash during the blood moon though.

 

[cleavinghammer]

A sharp rock tied to the end of a stick. Makes the whole difference.

Too many zombies maybe? I'd started out with the map always visible.

 

[ankhar]

Hello, Wark.
Please change hero revive system: in late game my opponent was losing like 20 knights per wave, while i was just resurrecting my hero instantly and for free.

 

[Wark]

Hello Ankhar:
I had thought of that already, and will be doing something about it: whenever your hero is killed by a player, they will gain a bounty.
You will also lose gold equal to the bounty they gain.
This bounty will increase based on hero level and alignment.

I will say that assaulting a player's fortified base can be quite difficult at times, but is definitely doable with forward bases, sieging and cutting off income, espionage, or a combination of those.

A lvl 1 hero can expect to lose 50 gold when an enemy player kills them, where a lvl 50 can expect to lose 300 gold.
Is that reasonable?

 

[cleavinghammer]

Never played mutiplayer, but it seems to me 300 is a laughably small amount if it can be reclaimed by killing a few critters and selling the skins.

 

[Graflar]

How about having two ways to revive your hero?

The first option costs a minimal amount of gold but your hero does not revive instantly. For this option, the time for revival could scale with the level of your hero,reputation or a combination of the two.

The second option costs a high amount of gold (and maybe lumber?) and revives your hero immediately.

Option one provides a way to get your hero back cheaply but the downside is you fall behind other players on experience and your base/army is vulnerable without your hero.

Option two ensures your hero doesn't fall behind in experience but you pay for it with the high amount of resources you use in exchange.

Losing your hero should matter to players and reviving them should provide some sort of setback to players. In this case at least the player has a choice as to how it affects them. If players are striving for an economic victory maybe they'll choose option one. If players are going for a conquest or heroic victory maybe they'll choose option two.

What do all of you think?

 

[Lil Emo Prince]

How about having two ways to revive your hero?

The first option costs a minimal amount of gold but your hero does not revive instantly. For this option, the time for revival could scale with the level of your hero,reputation or a combination of the two.

The second option costs a high amount of gold (and maybe lumber?) and revives your hero immediately.

Option one provides a way to get your hero back cheaply but the downside is you fall behind other players on experience and your base/army is vulnerable without your hero.

Option two ensures your hero doesn't fall behind in experience but you pay for it with the high amount of resources you use in exchange.

Losing your hero should matter to players and reviving them should provide some sort of setback to players. In this case at least the player has a choice as to how it affects them. If players are striving for an economic victory maybe they'll choose option one. If players are going for a conquest or heroic victory maybe they'll choose option two.

What do all of you think?

I think this is already an option. Option 1 is available in the tent & inns, while option 2 is available on Altars. Maybe a more costly instant revive (which scales on the hero's level?) thru the Altars would suffice for this one.

 

[Lil Emo Prince]

Casting Arcane bolts at maximum cast range doesn't generate aggro unlike Rain of Fire and Blizzard.

 

[Lil Emo Prince]

I think the

Not much of an exploit, it still takes a while to kill him.

-

Recipe book and Alchemy book have the same tooltips.

If you want a faster approach try using a Dwarf hero with a Quarter Staff and Dark Magic as offhand. Hire a Hermit, cast anti-magic shell on your hero then spam Gravity well and Banish. His MS would be so low he wouldn't be able to escape the gravity well. Although I'm not quite sure if the amplification affects the Gravity Well's damage.

EDIT: After testing it on wolves, Banish doesn't amplify Gravity Well's damage. Probably because the spell damage is based on the target's base HP.
EDIT: Banish and Gravity Well MS debuffs don't stack.
EDIT: Banish and Gravity Well MS debuffs do stack, if the unit is moving away from the gravity well centre. The -MS command doesn't show the MS penalty of gravity well, which is why I can't track it from my previous attempt. Banish also amplifies Gravity well's damage.

 

[Graflar]

I think this is already an option. Option 1 is available in the tent & inns, while option 2 is available on Altars. Maybe a more costly instant revive (which scales on the hero's level?) thru the Altars would suffice for this one.

Does the tent/inn revival time change with your heroes level? When I play single player with bandit AI their heroes always seem to respawn quickly regardless of what level they are.

 

[Lil Emo Prince]

Does the tent/inn revival time change with your heroes level? When I play single player with bandit AI their heroes always seem to respawn quickly regardless of what level they are.

It doesn't. Bandit AI heroes always respawn at a faster rate than the player's heroes. I think it has been made this way to make defeating AIs harder. You should try hiring Spies or Thieves (Thug Upgrade after taking mercenary contract at Town Centers) to sabotage the building. If you haven't tried sabotage it disables the building's production, thereby making the inn disabled to revive the bandit hero; also sabotage disables repairs on buildings.

 

[cleavinghammer]

Had a thought- is it possible to change the damage-increasing stat depending on the weapon equipped (with strength as default)? Also, maybe some weapons should require minimums in different stats (wielding a huge sword based solely on agility rather than strength, or the gun with just agility).

Also, even if changing the stat in-game isn't possible, ranged racial heroes shouldn't have strength as the damage increasing stat.

 

[Lil Emo Prince]

Read a couple of pages back. I've reported this Over Powered damage potential issue about STR types before. Wark already buffed the defensive capabilities of INT and AGI items. Although I do agree that there should be mix of stat requirement to wield weapons.

 

[Wark]

I have a different idea for the damage balance, and it is something that's already missing: tiered offhand items.
Specifically, I could put damage bonuses on some intelligence and agility offhands.

I was thinking that agility types needed a quiver anyways.
I kind of wanted to avoid mixing stat requirements, which is why I made the mixed-stat weapons all have lower requirements.
It'd make a mess of the item system's triggers.

That may not be in the next update since I would have to find icons for all those new offhands.
Right now I am focusing on balance and bug fixes. Zombies be all like: "You came to the wrong neighborhood"

 

[cleavinghammer]

Had a huge lag spike less than an hour in. However, I suspect this was due to several Warlocks using Orb of Annihilation at the same time. Any way to fix that?

 

[Wark]

So, a lag spike when they all attacked at once? Did the lag go away, and what were they attacking?
I've been thinking about changing the Warlock autocast ability to Parasite. It was either Orb or Parasite.
I chose Orb of Annihilation because it combo'd well with the other spells.

 

[cleavinghammer]

Four of them attacking some bandit thugs along two heroes. The lag didn't really go away, just slightly less choppy after about ten game seconds (I exited as soon as the game responded).

 

[Wark]

Hm, it might also just be the AI itself. I noticed the AI lags up the game or crashes when using "warpten" or "greedisgood," but I haven't found a way to fix that yet.
I might have to figure out how to make a script in JASS, or get help with making a new AI.

 

[cleavinghammer]

Wasn't using any of those, but there were three AIs (I usually play with two, don't usually see any lag with that many).

 

[Aliyama]

still waiting for the map to finish

 

[cleavinghammer]

Regarding the blood moon: villager neutrality will need an overhaul at some point, I found myself at -800 rep after a night of zombie slaying on a busy road with liberal amounts of explosives and a hammer.

What's the blocked-off area north of the orc village for?

 

[Wark]

What's the blocked-off area north of the orc village for?

That's a plan for another dungeon, duel arena, town conquering, or a combination of the three.
I can easily put in a boolean check for the blood moon to stop reputation loss temporarily.

Also regarding crashes with the AI, is anyone good with AI scripts? I am currently redoing the AI and trying to figure out what causes that.

EDIT:
After a week of testing, finally nailed that crash. It had something to do with the bandit income and rebuilding their base.
If there is any more issues with the AI, let me know. Also, made them stronger.

 

[Peaces]

How is the AI becomes difficult? what are its specific changes?