No legendaries-mode

[Deleted member 219079]

Would be nice move by blizz. Everyone knows legendaries are p2w.

This thought has been on my mind for quite a while.

 

[jopi]

You're right IMO. Actually i use some legendaries myself, but what is bad is that there are some 'must have' cards in HS-Meta at the moment. While just nerfing/buffing cards is one way around this, the other option would be adding new cards, with adding a 'stable' game mode (with the current card set) and a 'new' game mode, with the new, but also maybe imbalanced cards.

To get back on topic, i think a non-legendary mode would be quite nice, for those who don't have them yet or don't want to use them.

 

[Chaosy]

if that was the case why the fuck would I buy cards? it would be stupid and nothing else.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

I meant a separate mode for those who don't want to get roflstomped by p2w players

 

[Chaosy]

Still, that would more or less mean that those with legendaries would play "normal" mode and legendary-less people would play this "special" mode. Which again would make legendaries pointless.

@my perspective
I bought cards for 80£, I expect to see value out of those special cards I get. If it wasnt that those cards were stronger/better I would never have spent so much on them. At that point I could just go with a f2p deck and play the other mode.

@blizzards perspective
making that mode will make players find less need in buying cards.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

Which again would make legendaries pointless.

What if there would be no ladder or rewards in this mode? Just like casual ^^ just for entertainment, as games are meant to be.

 

[Chaosy]

I know that you meant a non ranked mode. But that would still make my normal games odd because I still use the same decks.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

Didn't quite that, but if you refuse that mode so much, come to riot at a thread if I make one at bnet lol

 

[Talavaj]

Yeah, I think people would feel less of a need to spend money if they could simply play against opponents of similar card levels.

That being said, there is only a few good legendaries the rest is either a gimmick or RNG as heck moreover you can only have one per deck so IMO they are perfectly balanced.
Now that two of the better legendaries (Pagle and Overspark) have been nerfed I think they are fine, or dunno which current legendaries would you still consider p2w ?

 

[Deleted member 219079]

Yeah, I think people would feel less of a need to spend money if they could simply play against opponents of similar card levels.

Spending money isn't always nice, you could be good in this mode without spending the money, that was my idea

dunno which current legendaries would you still consider p2w ?

Rag and gruul at my level rank 15 that is.

 

[Chaosy]

Ysera is OP as hell.. sadly I dont got her..

 

[Deleted member 219079]

Oh yes, I had discussion about her, 12 hp is too high Or then its battlecry should read: discard 1(or 2) cards.

 

[Talavaj]

Those are all big drops, they are strong only because there are no equivalent big drops in lower rarities of cards.
When you consider ironbark protector a basic 8/8 card for 8 cost with taunt gruul suddenly does not look as tough.
If you can't remove an 8/8 at turn 8~9 you are already losing, because of that Cairne, Sylvanas and The Black Knight are much superior cards.

Though I would have to say Sea and Molten giants are way more broken than any of the big legendaries by far.
I also find it funny nobody seems to find The Beast OP as heck ... until they see it coined in a hunter deck.

 

[Chaosy]

I have only seen the beast once and I killed it with deadly shot or something like that.

but really, ysera is the most OP legendary in my opinion. Unless youre sitting on polymorph or such its really really hard to deal with.

 

[defskull]

OR instead of creating new separate mode, you could always ask Blizzard to improve their current so-called match-making system where you would face opponents with Legendaries if your deck consist of Legendaries too.

If you want to further go into details, you could provide a threshold where 3 or more Legendaries in the deck would face 3 or more Legendaries in the deck player, while 1 Legendary with 1 (this would include in the different range because many people only have 1 Legendary in their deck just got lucky while opening boosters), and none with none.

This way, you will face players in your same page, instead stomping players with no legendaries at all and spamming the shit out of Well Played when you clearly have Ragnaros + Ysera in your hand and they have no Legendaries at all.

But, this would apply to the normal mode (the Play mode), but not include in the Arena/Ranked because when you go Ranked, you should prepare yourselves for the worst (in terms of deck completeness, etc) and you should know the risk of going to high-tier game mode without any legendary to support your deck (although you can get to high Rank with no-legendary card) but still, it's harder compared to people getting 5 Legendaries in their deck.

I bought cards for 80£, I expect to see value out of those special cards I get.

You would feel more fun when playing with people that have as many as Legendaries you have.

Also, they are trying to implement an environment where if you don't spend money at all, you still have chance to win, but really, a person that spends 80£ compared to person that spend none ?

That's why I mentioned about Blizzard should revise their match-making algorithm.

 

[Chaosy]

There are legendaries in every single game on my MMR (rank 13 atm) so it's not too much of a deal.

Anyway, I got to platinum without a single legendary a while ago so it's highly possible to get rating without it.

But then again, I would never ever buy cards if those wasnt good. And if theyre good and I'm only matched against others with the same number of legendaries why would I buy? completely pointless, I could play my old F2P pala deck which took me to plat it would have the same effect.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

That's why my suggestion still stands as separate mode for no legendaries. What about handlock playing moltens? Don't go straight to face like a brainless hunter. Said hunter because they do so, uth was meant to be aoe spell, but those idiots shove the hounds to my face.

 

[Chaosy]

which then again would make me play a f2p deck with the same oppertunities as a deck with 20 legendaries.

thats like the legendary cape in WoW being with the same stats as a rare cape.

omg those two capes dont have the same stats we need a balance fix to make them balanced towards eachother.
http://www.wowhead.com/item=1372
http://www.wowhead.com/item=102245

 

[Talavaj]

There are basic only decks in legend ranked players (in top 50) yet Totalbiscuit's legendary only deck is usually stuck around rank 25.
Explain me this.
If they are legendaries in top ranked it is Pagle, Overspark, Milhouse, Thalnos, Sylvanas, Cairne, Leeroy, Black knight and sometimes Mukla in aggro decks, druid/warlock/paladin/rogue/warrior and mage tend to have their class legendaries around though.

But honestly, the game is still more about draws and RNG than it is about card play and deck building.

 

[Chaosy]

every high ranked deck I see have a legendary or more. (@hearthpwn)

I agree that many legendaries suck though. (5+)

 

[defskull]

Pagle, Overspark, Milhouse, Thalnos, Sylvanas, Cairne, Leeroy, Black knight and sometimes Mukla in aggro decks

Where's Ysera and Ragnaros ?

 

[DiscoOrc]

Legendaryies are gimmick cards and are situitional. They usualy arent good. Like ysera for example can be easliy removed and slienced at that turn. If you cant deal with a 4/12 ysera you cant deal with a 6/7 boulderfist ogre. Most legendaryies suck and commons usualy beat them (See totalbiscuits Legendary deck)

 

[Talavaj]

Majority of competitive legend decks are mid range decks, hence you will rarely see anything past 6-drops.
Late game decks do have Rag and Ysera and sometimes Alexstrasza in combo with giants and then class legendaries.
The cards I mentioned however are basically in most decks regardless of mid/high range, especially Thalnos is in virtually every deck. So used to be Pagle and Overspark but following the nerf we will see how they will end up.

One fitting example of competitive decks would be the 2P. china vs NA championship, NA was running mid range decks while china late game decks with some rags/ysera and alexss in the mix.
NA won however.

Here is the NA vs CN decks.

Clicky

And some legend ladder decks NA. (top100~ top10)

Clicky

The decks are run by competitive players some of which also play competitively in other tcg games. (MTG)

That being said, I still think Legendaries aren't nearly as good as people would think. It is more of a psychological effect of losing to one which could make people think it was because of the legendaries but in reality they would probably have lost to the enemy either way because of the other factors.
I personally think the fact you have only one per deck is a huuge drawback when you compare legendaries to good rares/epics.

Personally I'm more irritated about the bullshit matchmaking picking opponents on god knows what basis given I run into people decked with epics on my characters below lvl 10.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

Just need this mode, hs doesn't feel nice anymore as I keep facing guys with ridiculous amounts of legendaries... I had 3 days off, today I started playing again, but I've lost to legendary spammers. Oh well, looking towards Heroes, blizzard fucked up another game... Only fun when playing with friends, just like Starcraft...

 

[Deleted member 219079]

Yeah, I just went to americas server to play on rank 25 so no legendaries would appear.

Guess what I saw? A legendary on my first game, on rank 25... Oh well, guess I just have to get used to the fact that I will lose 33% of my games to the fact that Blizzard is a greedy sh*t.

Hearthstone's amazing game

 

[Chaosy]

or, you can counter the legendaries.

pick 2-4 silence cards and 2x faceless manipulators. Silence counters almost every single legendary so that should be helpful.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

That's wonderful, it'll just take some time to gather enough dust to craft facelesses. I mean, I want to play f2p account on us from now on, I bought 15 packs on other account and I feel dirty.

 

[Meticulous]

The overpowered legendaries are considered "balanced" because they're late drops and Blizzard intentionally flooded the game with overly efficient hard removal spells to make late drops less game ending. Which is why legendaries are pretty balanced in decks only running a couple of them.

But when it gets right down to it, there are only two real ways to play Hearthstone optimally. One is the pure control deck, commonly seen in Druid, Warrior, Paladin, and occasionally Warlock. All of your cards are either removal, powerful class minions, draw, utility, etc. Then you have a stack of the most impactful and game-ending legendaries. Generally Ragnaros AKA the 8/8 charge + divine shield for 8, Cairne AKA double yeti for 6, Sylvanas AKA 5/5 with Mind Control, Ysera AKA nigh unkillable wall of infinite card draw, and of course whatever your class' legendary is, since generally class legendaries are just plain must-haves.

The reason these decks are so good is they have the durability and control to survive rushdown attempts, then you pretty much just mindlessly slap legendaries/epics down on the board until the opponent runs out of answers and you win. Legendaries may be limited to 1 per card per deck, but you can have as many legendaries as you damn well please - meanwhile the opponent can only have two hexes, two polymorphs, two executes, etc.

Silence is an imperfect solution because against many decks silence is just an unnecessary loss of 2 stat points, and the availability in neutral cards is limited. Ironbeak Owl is a particularly sad case because it loses an additional stat point just for being a beast (although this makes it a very good card for ignoring taunts in hunter rush decks).


The other optimal way to play Hearthstone is frankly just as mindless. Seen mainly in Hunter and Warlock decks, but fairly viable for any deck but Priest, it's really prevalent at the moment because people have realized it's the only relatively successful strategy against legendary-stacked control decks - the pure rush, zoo or charge based deck. You ignore enemy minions and smack the other guy in the face. This relies on exactly the same principle as before - you're depending on the opponent running out of answers to your spam minions and dying before he can start slapping down his big legendaries. Again, you can have as many cheap charge/buff minions in your deck as you want, but the opponent only gets 2 whirlwinds, 2 wild pyromancers, 2 lightning storms, etc.

Mid-range decks honestly have no place in the game right now unless you're running double BGH and double faceless to deal with control, and a bunch of taunts and heals to deal with rushdowns. The problem is that this is a conflicting setup that makes your deck more luck-based and dependent on how you draw against what opponents, and splits up the central theme of your deck heavily. If you fail to draw enough of your taunts, heals, etc. against a rush and instead get your polymorphs, BGHs, facelesses, etc. you're done - and the opposite is true against control.

Honestly Hearthstone has a lot of problems right now, but it was never meant to be a competitive game. If you're really hating playing against heavily stacked legendary control decks, just do what everyone else does and run a charge/rushdown hunter or warlock zoo deck. You can get a deck capable of beating most unlucky control decks for real cheap.