My New Map Finally Here!!

[warcraftmodding123]

This is probably in late beta phase but I would like some feedback first. This map is a "how WC3 should have been" mod. So it still feels like the original game but with a few changes.

It needs some polishing and I want to add a few more features to it but the mod is fully playable.


In this mod bigger battles will be able to take place due to having more population space from low food cost.
All the factions have received new units. Heroes will have less impact on the battle but not forgotten; one extra "passive" ability, higher max level and new items are planned.
Cavalry can now run down infantry by trampling them.
New structures in the secondary build ability (only Humans have them now so far almost fully added):
walls, docks and the shop has been moved there.

Spoiler: Credits

Triggers/Abilities:
Fruit Forest for his trample ability
Chaosy for help with making hero spawn sound work
Noob2 for helping make part of advanced builder to work
Streetpunk for helping with magic attacks
Bribe for helping view his Knockback 2.5D system
bear_369, Dr Super Good and Dehua_Darbuya for making war stomp trigger work
Hemmdo and Chaosy helping fix a sound issue
WereElf for custom multi shot arrows
A]mun and GenoHacker for helping fix custom hero build

Models:
Axe Troll by levigeorge1617
BoarRiderMissile By Uncle Fester
BatTroll - riderless orc bat by GreyArchon
Castle by MassiveMaster
Cathedral by Mike
CrossbowFootman By Wandering Soul
Dwarven Shieldbreaker by HerrDave
ElvenArcher by supertoinkz
The Lich King by Kwaliti
Cinematic Illidan By Zerox
RPGSkeletonWarrior by Mephestrial
HouseVar02 by Amigurumi
Great Tiki Warrior By Skipper
Simple Orc Ram By Hayate
TrollBoarRiderVII By Uncle Fester
RPG Tauren by Misha
Knight of The Ebon Blade by Apheraz Lucent
HeroAbomination By SuPa-
Stables by Hayate and Mike
HeroGlow by assasin_lord

Thanks to people that helped me fix my issues

Sorry If I forgot anyone

 

[noob2]

Those swords on the skeletons does not fits the rest of Wc3: they are not exaggerated enough.
I tested the map a bit and I wonder: is it intentional that you have only one hero at most?

There is not yet any ai other than the default wc3 ones.(so due to that orcs computers get stuck because they build bunkers instead of farms because they think that bunkers are food production buildings and it can be fixed only by changing the ai or tricks that are even more heavy)

Also advanced builder form have an inappropriate tooltip and turns the builder in the wrong unit(one that does not have the two buildings that advanced human builders should have)

 

[warcraftmodding123]

The swords are fine. Ya only one hero per player cause I will make them reach higher levels, also to focus the game more on unit management than heroes because the lower population cost the battles will big bigger.

The map is intended for multiplayer against people and not against AI. The advanced builder will be removed and only added back once it's functional.

Thanks.

 

[noob2]

It is simple to make the advanced builder skill work.
The duration field on the skill is the time the creature needs for transforming.
So right now it takes 100 seconds to transform(basically the peasant stay on place channelling for 100 seconds before changing shape) because you did set the duration field at that value.
Then you picked the wrong alternate unit: you did set it to some custom footmen with no buildings instead of setting it to advanced peasant (that you already have)

Ya only one hero per player cause I will make them reach higher levels, also to focus the game more on unit management than heroes because the lower population cost the battles will big bigger.

Due to lower hit points and higher number on the low cost units heroes levels up faster and so get high level skills faster and then with their aoe spells have gigantic impacts thus making it ironically much more hero focused than if units had higher costs and hit points.
For example a lich have a tendency to slow and hurt armies massively early game and so usually allows you to push super hard and beat people before they get the higher tier units that have more hp.
Blade masters are op as usual and making units weaker does not fix it.

Also often you lowered hit points on low tier units without lowering gold cost or training times too thus often having units that costs way too much relatively to how they fight thus making heroes like blademasters be even more unstoppable in early game.

Also due to high gold costs and low hit points it is common for barrack tier units to be actually a lot weaker than militia per gold spend(and training time spent) and so stuff like extremely early expands with human seems like building an additional super barrack(basically it have more potential than with other races).

So if you want focus on units rather than heroes I suggest you lower costs and training times on the first tier units and raise their hp or else heroes dominate early game way more in your map than in default Wc3.

 

[warcraftmodding123]

Actually I did have an advanced peasant builder but since it wasnt working I just tested with a footman if the unit getting stuck in place was a peasant issue thats why i didnt give any builder ability. I will check the duration thing you suggested later.

Yeah the mod still needs polishing like I mentioned in the description. Thanks for the feedback, I don't doubt that some units might need some cost and training time adjustment but the hp will remain as it is. Heroes will also be balanced so they're not OP and take all the spotlight.

 

[noob2]

Well I tested all the four races and I will start speaking of the varied units and of whenever they are worth being recruited or are just useless.
Human:
The first unit you get is the peasant it is also one of the best close quarter unit you will get(that sums up how poor human close quarter units are) not only peasants are cheap but when they transform they have heavy armour which have very few counters among low tier units and high dps and while not transformed they can build many stuff or work so basically making more peasants than needed as a form of army is a good idea and town halls double up as army recruitment units so it makes human have the earliest rushes and probably one of the strongest rushes due to how early they are.

In the barracks you get multiple units and unlock some more later the barracks is probably your best recruitment building except for flying units so building multiple barracks is not a bad idea.
In that building you get footmen that are just weaker than peasants for the gold you spend unless somehow your opponent decide to only have piercing attacks.
You get elven rangers which takes tons of gold and time to train and while they have a good dps they have way too few hit points for being of any use(except against ai but it is a different story).

You get also get crossbowmen which are the main correct unit of the barracks: they have enough hit points for not being instagibbed and it is probably the only human unit that is not overpriced(together with peasants and maybe the scorpion (and the spell breaker if it was recruit-able)) which means that basically after the militia rush time your main unit will be crossbowmen and you will probably spend your whole time building it.

in the altar of kings you can get fairly good heroes such as paladin 2 which is basically a paladin but with more damage or the archmage which is probably super powerful with blizzard because you do not give hit points to units so any aoe attack is super good because the opponents are forced to spread and then lose to your army or simply die to blizzard.

Then you tier up your main building and you can get new units.

You immediately get the scorpion and the catapult.(and the spellbreaker if you have the required building somehow) the scorpion have high damage per shot and long range and is in fact not so fail due to being mechanical(which gives a bunch of immunities) since their projectiles are fast they are in fact quite good at killing opponent units which means that even if they costs a whole lot and have low dps they are still an useful addition to an army due to the sheer immediate impact they have.

The catapult is your best siege unit for all your life(as an human) even if they cost 1 more food than mortars.

So usually you will hide your scorpion(or scorpions if you really like them) behind lines of crossbowmen and/or militia which makes its not so high hp not be a too much big problem.

The spellbreaker is tanky relatively to the other units with their 500 hp and have spell immunity which is in fact a good deal for its cost because all the other units are overpriced or have way too few hp.

Then you can build an arcane sanctum to get priests and sorceresses.
priests have lost one spell which is sad but they stay an option for replenishing your hit points between fights or in long fights.
Sorceresses are just like in default Wc3 but since their abilities are often single target they are probably way less powerful when swarming is easier.

Or you can build a workshop and figure out all the units of the workshop are probably useless.
The mortar costs more than a catapult and have less hp and is not mechanical which means it have less immunities the mortar also have less dps than a catapult so you should not build mortars under any circumstances because they are just bad.

The riflemen is way too much expensive for its vulnerability: it have less range than a scorpion(and thus is on the battlefield unlike a scorpion) and comparable dps but we can see it is really inferior when we see that the scorpion have an aoe attack and that the riflemen due to being organical have less immunities so basically you are better off with one more scorpion or with 3 more crossbowmen than with one riflemen unless somehow there is dragons which attacks and decide they absolutely do not want to harm riflemen
Also riflemen use gunpowder upgrades for its damage which is bad since for all T1 you only upgraded metal weapons and also metal weapons is on the majority of the useful units.

The shieldbreaker have 550 hit points but they have an insane cost and when compared to spellbreakers or to two additonal crossbowmen or to two additional millitia it is clear that the shieldbreaker is just bad and when compared to similar units of other races the shieldbreaker is clearly not just bad :it is awfully bad.

The gyroscopter got magical damage which makes it bad at fighting air units since usually they have armours resistant to magic damage or have flat out immunity to magic.

The Siege tank is overpriced for what it does(forgot if it needed castle or not).

Then you can upgrade your building to castle level and get gryphon riders and knights each in separate buildings.

Gryphon riders are very expensive but since they are the only correct flying skirmish option for humans I guess they do not have the choice and it is less a scam than the night elves who have the worst flying unit(basically they have an unit that is much more expensive than gryphon riders and who somehow is not much better and is way less good than two gryphon riders).
Humans have the cheapest T3 flying unit.

Knights have low hit points and super high cost and in fact are just bad even if they have cavalry attack it can be dodged and when compared to other units with cavalry attack knights are less good(for example wolf riders have more everything, are cheaper in gold and wood cost and comes up one tier earlier)
Rather than buying a knight you are better off buying more crossbowmen, militia or spellbreakers.

Orc:
while your peons are tanky they are not warriors either.
However bunkers are quite good at defending against early rushes.

Then you have fairly good units in the orc barracks.
Grunts are powerful(high hp is important) and you immediately also have troll axe throwers which are quite good too(good hp for ranged units) the troll head hunter might be less good than crossbowmen but they get a lot better when upgraded and they are cheaper to build(sorry I did not see but the berseker upgrade increase their gold and wood and food cost and I do not know if it is intentional).

In the altar you get a new blademaster which is better than the old one which was already overpowered.

Orcs however shine the most at tier 2 and tier 3 where their units often are super powerful(except when compared to night elf close quarter stuff but that is probably due to underpricing on some night elf stuff)
at tier 2 and 3 orcs gets Ogres which are quite good at fighting due to high hit points, wolf riders which just have super high stats for their cost and can net stuff and then kill them by charging in case it was not enough, boar riders which are just less good than wolf riders but a bit cheaper, war kodo beasts which shoots at allies and so are bad, batriders which are as powerful as in base warcraft 3(and which now can annihilate everything when your new blade master boost them) and which have high hp which is a thing that often lacks to units,taurens that are just less good than ogres or wolf riders for their food cost
They also get a catapult (That is cheaper and stronger than the human one) and a melee range version of the catapult which is less good because it is frail and exposed to battle and troll pikemens which are really cheap in food for their stats.
They lost their shaman caster and got a replacement but most of the casters are very close to what they were before and are not broken.
Then they get overpowered dragons which got magic immunity and heavy armor and super high stats as well as damage reduction which means there is only chaos damage that works correctly against them also the dragon roost is immortal which means that once you started building it you will be impossible to defeat since your opponents can not destroy it.

Elf: wisps are defenceless and elves have no immediate access to defensive structures their only safety is that their gold mining wisps are protected in their entangled goldmine so elves are not as much protected against instant rushes(such as militia rushes) as humans and orcs.

In their ancient of war archers are completely useless due to lack of hp(even lower than what they had which was already very low) and dps and they cost 2 food and loads of resources furthermore they do not have elune grace which is what allowed low hp creature like them to survive.
Blade warriors are the weakest barrack level melee unit with way too low hit points for surviving in contact also they got mana but no spells so they got the vulnerabilities that goes with mana without any of the advantages.
But after building the hunter all you can recruit Huntresses which are good units(one of the rare base units to not have been turned into glass) as well as glaive throwers.
glaive throwers are utterly overpriced and super weak: they got low dps, low damage per hit and low hit points.
Why would they get to be as much expensive as other siege units while being weaker than the others is out of my understanding: siege units are all too much expensive for what they are except for orc siege units but night elf siege units are absurdly weak and expensive.

Then you can get tier 2 units basically once you have tier 2 units you can forget tier 1 units entirely for they are just weak and useless compared to the shiny new units you get.
The druids of the claw have(under bear shape) insane damage per second and high hit points and are one of the reasons I say nearly all the tier 1 units are too frail: a bear make mince paste of everything with less than 500 hit points in a matter of seconds and bears are so powerful that once you have them they are better at sieging than glaive throwers while costing only one more food and 50 more gold.
On top of that they have a cool boosting spell.
In the ancient of knowledge you get dryads which are still good at antispellcaster but mostly you get the absurdly cheap and tanky ancient warriors which are basically what you will be spending your wood on.
You also get mountain giants but they are simply utterly overpriced and useless(also they have a spell that costs mana but they have no mana to cast it) and you would need to halve all of their costs before they start being interesting to recruit.
In the ancient of the winds you get classical units such as the fairy dragon,the raven druid and the hippogryph but the hippogryph got its attack turned in magical damage because you wanted to make sure no aerial anti air worked properly against dragons (I have no idea why you wanted to create such imbalance) the raven druid have a strong magical attack under raven shape and I guess it is useful for attacking heavy armoured ground units such as militia.
The fairy dragon is very powerful at anti caster but is not really different from what it did in warcraft 3.
At tier 3 you get two useless units: the blade maiden which is overpriced, weak and comes on line too late and is purely less good than the previous units you got at tier 2(and also have mana but no spells), and the chimera which is just too much expensive up to the point that if chimera had its costs halved I would still probably not try recruiting any.

So you will spend the gold on bears and the wood on ancient warriors and have a crazily powerful tier 2 army and complete with dryads and hippogryph for anti air and forget about tier 3.

Undead:
Undead got undefended acolytes(the ghoul is super weak when compared to militia) who have no hiding places like orc peons and who are not awesome super warriors like peasants but acolytes can summon multiple buildings at once so I guess it is a plus.
also they regenerate fast but that is not enough to counter instant rushes.
In fact all the undead regenerate fast on blight which is a cool property they already had.
Usually undead starts by building 3 crypts at once(recruit one acolyte and make 2 crypts at the same time then wait for gold and build a third crypt then the rest matters less)
Then they flood the world with armored skeletons for base defense and offense while building more crypts and possibly building an altar for having a hero for spreading creep fast as well as towers for protection against air.(they also use crypt fiends for anti air)
Yes that is it in fact there is one tier for undead.
Tiers above the first tier are just stuff you build for fun while flooding the world with skeletons,creep , turrets and crypt fiends.
anyway there is still units other than armored skeletons and crypt fiends there is also zombies in the cemetery but they are just useless.
in the crypt there is also archer skeletons which are not great and anyway they can not capture air units or beat up stuff.

 

[warcraftmodding123]

Wow you really thoroughly tested it...you wrote a book dude , I read it all thanks again for feedback, I made some adjustments based on it. I didn't change all though cause I didn't have time but also it would be good to get feedback from multiplayer games. If you can get people to play or we could dual in 1vs1 (I'm noob at this game though) then that would be great.

Also thanks for giving me the solution to the advanced builder ability. For some reason though the advanced peasant won't build certain buildings. I tried with the Arcane Vault, didnt work, then added a few more buildings to it and they could be built. I removed all the buildings and replaced the Arcane Vault with the Gryphon Aviaries and it didnt work either.

Update: found the solution to make advanced builder not have errors.

Updated the map.

 

[noob2]

I see the advanced builder now works fine.
The skeletons now have a cost.
so the main broken stuff now is that all races but humans get tier 2 units that obsoletes their tier one units and obsolete the tier one units of the other races.
And the fact elves and orcs have some completely underpriced tier 2 units.

 

[warcraftmodding123]

Ya the balance issues will be fixed with time.

 

[Bribe]

I've never made a Trample ability, unless you're talking about the Knockback 2.5D system which is used to enable things like Trample to work.

 

[warcraftmodding123]

I've never made a Trample ability, unless you're talking about the Knockback 2.5D system which is used to enable things like Trample to work.

Edited to correct name.

 

[KILLCIDE]

Re-opened by request.

 

[warcraftmodding123]

Re-opened by request.

thank you