You're allowed so in Serbia, as well, except for, I have actual reasons to tell you that.
Free speech is a rather American idea wouldn't you say? I'd make the arguement that Western culture is rather quite liberating in some aspects (keyword being some)
And that's one of the wrongest things with your pride. You don't care what bad it does, only the 'good'. And majority o f that 'good' is also bad, you just don't know it yet.
I'm proud that my country maintains my rights. I'm proud that every 4 years I get to mark a slip of paper to let my country know who I want to lead me. I'm proud that we allow anyone of any color or religion or gender to pursure any interest they have. And the list goes on.
I am not proud that my country wages war for resources in foreign countries. I am not proud that my country bombs civilians in suppression attempts. I am not proud that my country is so wasteful. I am not proud that my country acts as the police force to the world. I am not proud that my country has enough nuclear devices to blow up the world (last count I think it was 1,500 tactical nukes, 500 of them being MIRV's). And the list goes on.
I didn't come to your country and vote for you. Also, you didn't do anything with protests. Even I am accountable for the shitty government of my nation, because I didn't protest in time, even though I voted against it. It IS my responsibility. You are just trying to get responsibility off your list, because it is easier that way. I am responsible for my own government, BUT SO ARE YOU.
I can only vote so far as appearance and information lets me. I voted for Clinton. That doesn't mean I endorse the fact that he got a blowjob in the Oval Office, far from it. It was a disgrace to my country. I would hardly be held accountable for it though. I can use my vote to put people in office but I cannot control them once they're there. In most circumstances I simply vote for the lesser of two evils. My best bet would be to run for public office, but I speak my mind too freely to go far in politics.
Some of my best friends online are exactly americans, but without the ignorant self-righteous pride that you inherit.
I'm sorry that I appear self-righteous.
And that's good as long as you do not oppress it and let the country do the dirty job! Awesome.
If the tough decisions were left to the unorganized masses we'd have fallen as a nation long ago. There is a necessity for the dirty jobs, in that a strong government can do what the people cannot. I don't agree that they should be "dirty" though. And telling the people what they're about to do before they go do a black op would be counterproductive. I elect people that I trust to make the right decisions involving these dirty jobs.
They can, but you can also get jailed for many things (as well is your country, but you might not have experienced it yet).
I know there are many offenses that will put me behind bars.
One of the greatest problems with america is that your citizens think they can not care about something and then wash themselves off the irresponsibility.
I'm not washing myself of the responsilibity. I'm washing myself of the choice. If I don't choose to vote, I'm still going to suffer the increase in taxes. I've just said that what happens at the time isn't an interest of mine.
That's only because they know you won't go one step further. They don't care about what you say, only what you do. They know that as long as they let people say things, they woin't do things, like oppress the NWO system that's getting in all the pores of the society (and not just american).
The first amendment was the basis for the Civil Rights movement. That accomplished a lot.
There's a difference between a patriotic man and one who doesn't give a shit about the rest of the world.
I'd agree so aswell. However it is possible to be a patriot and not know what's happening in every single territory around the world.
Well, that's what feelings are composed of, extremes, of course. However, as I've said in my example, some remorseful things are far too great that you should be polarized to remorse instead of pride.
Emotions for me work as a mixed bag.
Being so foolishly proud of america sort of means you're fine with it, if a bit uncomfortable.
I'd disagree.
No, our government is awful. We are now too weak to revolt and protest, but our time will come. Our government is implanted by EU and USA and they are more working for the interests of western governments than us. Serbia is a country older than a thousand years, so we cannot equate recent government's ideas with its base and culture. On the other hand, america is so dependent on the government and the entertainment industry that you could say they ARE the country, even if there are sane people there (and sane people are suffering the most in your country, I know some).
I hope you someday make a change for the good in your nations government, whether it be overthrowing it or simply amending it. I do hope however that you do it for the right reasons, and you make sufficient changes that you can create a sustainable government that's job is to serve the people.
I know a lot about it, actually, especially since I used to be one. There are many ways of 'satanism', but all of them are either man-centric or self-centric, both of which are destructive in the long run.
You're entirely right about the self-centric part, but I'd disagree about the destructive element of Satanism.
I will take a knife and cut your ribs out one by one, and you cannot curse or yell, you have to say "Sir, please do not take my ribs out, I also wouldn't like to be killed" in the calmest way possible.
I'll take this with a grain of salt as I think you were trying to use an example.
If you knew what your country actually DOES, you'd be mortified. Now I see you actually aren't aware of the most things.
I do know what my country does. Part of my civic duty is being an informed citizen.
...and it is fine, even though they do dreadful things too.
I don't think it's fine. Unfortunately there is nothing I can do about either of those things (MK ULTRA & Tuskegee Experiment)
We never had internal problems until guys from the west (germans, french, british, and later americans) decided to intervene, so they implanted their own government in Serbia. YEAH. FREE ELECTION CHOICE. Except for, it is rigged in your favor.
Also, most things about those dictators -- don't you think it's funny how it all became problematic overnight? Don't you see it simply makes a great propaganda material? What is Obama, if not a dictator that lets you believe you have choices and freedom that you don't?
Yes my nation seems to have a problem with free elections when they tend to favor something they don't like. The denial of an election in Vietnam comes to mind.
As far as dictators, Saddam did horrible things to his people for 30 years. We turned a blind eye to it because he was an ally for most of those 30. I don't think it was right, he gased his own people. I do feel that toppling his government was the right thing to do, even though we did it late. I wouldn't say that our total relation with him was right though.
And I would hardly consider Obama a dictator. He still has to tip-toe around Washington because he's on first term. First term presidents don't accomplish much, it's with the second term that they shape their political agenda. Also anyone who has studied economics would realize that a change in our economic plan every 4 years won't produce any kind of a result.
Ummm.... There's nothing that can outweight millions of people killed, unless you're a messed up human being, which you are
Then I guess I'm a messed up human being.
You can't believe how accurate it is, just because you're fed shit to believe that any good can outweight the bad it has done
I can't believe how accurate it is because it isn't accurate.
Yeah, I know, freedom of speech and stuff, right. That's golden. You have so much freedom. For example, you are free to choose which university you're going to be a slave of, since you'll need half your life to repay the debt. But hey, america is the land of free and not at all the land of slaves? If you completely re-thought through your socioeconomic system you'd realize america is the land of slaves, not the land of free.
Even with the job market as tight as it is you can elect not to pursue a college diploma. There are people who have found garbage working to be a rather rewarding job because of the public service they do. People choose to be "slaves" to college because it drastically increases the amount of money earned during their lifetimes.
I am discriminating against anti-humanists, not the fair people in your country. Also, google 'racist', and make a connection between that and the fact I despise people who only care about their own butts.
If you despise people who only care for themselves why were you a Satanist? And I don't only care for myself, I only care for the cloister of people in my life. I'm only touched by the emotional connections I share with people, whether it be by a connection of nationality, religion, or interest. Do you care when some 500 lb man in America has a heart attack?
Haha, nice try. Your whole idea of freedom is made up so that wrong and right can be mixed into the truth, so that the public doesn't know what to believe. Well, it is not an OPINION. Your country KILLED MILLIONS OF PEOPLE. Look it up everywhere. That's as far from the opinion as it could get.
My country having killed millions doesn't mean I can't have an opinion. My country having killed millions doesn't mean that I can't have personal freedom.
Yes, yes, we are a poor oppressed country... Bomb the shit out of us so we feel more free!
The US bombings did not oppress your people.
And that couldn't be farther from the truth. We are only as anti-American as you let us be, exactly due to reasons such as global mass genocide. And I don't get where you americans get the idea of someone having no basic human rights. Do you think we live in a jungle, in tribes? Your 'civilized' country is only so civilized to enable mind control and depopulation, and you will soon know it.
First it's not genocide because we aren't exterminating a race of people. Fighting a war on Spain doesn't mean you're committing genocide against Spaniards. Second I don't believe you have basic human rights because that's the perception given. No you obviously don't live in a jungle, you have access to a computer and the internet and you've obviously received some form of education.
The same empathy you have for those killed by your army? No thanks. That kind of empathy is killing the world.
No I suggest you gain some empathy for humanity. I didn't grab a gun and shoot your neighbors. I don't deserve your hostility.
Something we agree on, yeah.
I agree with you on a few things just not all.
We have discussions in Serbia as well, you know, when both of the people know what they are talking about, else it just ends.
I thought the point of a discussion was to share facts and try to persuade people to viewpoints. I know I won't sway your opinions on America, but that's what I'm hoping. I doubt my opinion on America will be swayed, but you are no doubt hoping.
He's got it built up. On the other hand, I was only answering to those exact things, just in a different package. I could've used your precious western niceness to express all of these. But I didn't want to. I have a spine, unlike some, not to mention that I don't hate a country as a country, but self-righteous prideful people who are proud of their country, even though it wreaks havoc on the world as we know it. If anything, you should be ASHAMED.
I don't hate people before knowing them. Until I've looked in your eyes and I know you as a man I couldn't possibly know you well enough to condemn you to my bad graces. I just find your actions rather disagreeable. And I don't feel ashamed. I feel pride at the achievements of my country. I feel regret and remorse at the mistakes.
So, my friend, I am sorry for calling you names previously. It takes hours to realize what terrible evil there has to be, to make a man say and believe things you do, and as everyone else, I am imperfect, and get bursts of anger I must not, when someone steps on certain wounds of mine. Not to mention we're arguing even though we are on the same side. We are the 99% they have went on to destroy, humiliate and enslave. If people were to unite, not into one huge worldwide country, but against their corrupt governments, the world could see peace. Forgive me for everything.
It's ok. Even in disagreement we shouldn't harbor anger. I should be a bit more careful before I zealously share my opinions, and I did throw the bait out on a few responses. I forgive you for your mistakes, and I only ask that you forgive me for mine.
Because let's not get 'modest', WWII was not 'won by America' it was actually half the job by US and UK, the other half by USSR. I am not fan of Russia, I am just objective. Because of such bias history is often manipulated and told wrong.
America's intervention in Europe was small. But we were there helping to fight. America's involvement with Japan was quite large.
And just to add - WW1 America didn't even take part and I am sure takenji didn't say it on purpose (to troll) - he didn't know that. So not knowing history at all - such should stfu.
As I recall there was some ship sunk by a German U-boat after an embargo was declared. Something like the Lucitania right?
We were drawn into war after it was sunk. And we only contributed what, 4 million soldiers? That's not even taking part right?
Not to mention that 'helping out in the WW2' was just for show. They could get involved from the start and truly help, but no, they just wanted to be the good guys so bad.
They needed to show that their soldiers are used for GOOD causes, so that they could later use that as an argument for... I am tired of listing all the countries, google "countries america invaded".
Seeing as foreign policy changes with every new presidency I doubt we could see far enough ahead to the period of U.S. imperialism. The U.S. wanted to stay out of Europes war, the same as in WWI. Once again we were drawn in by an attack on the U.S., and then we contributed to the war effort. It wasn't about public appearance.
Evil does not exist, get out.
I'd disagree to a certain interpretation. People act with evil, but I wouldn't say it were possible for a person to be wholly consumed with evil.
There are different ideologies out there and not everybody believes that democracy for example is the best form of system for a nation. Some may believe capitalism may be good, but this also a two-edged sword, where private organizations can gain too much power and influence. I firmly believe socialdemocracy is the best ideology, but others may disagree with me.
I'm happy for your belief. And I believe that a limited dictatorship is the way to go, assuming you can find a benevolent dictator (a la Napolean).
I mean how many times was 9/11 in the news?
And that was 5000 people. Killed by terrorists. Was it so?
How many times are WW2 and WW1 in the news? Never.
But they killed millions of people.
This is inaccurate, in the sense that the World Wars didn't make the news.
Knowing the world we live in is shit and could be better has nothing to do with supriority. If anything, what he's suggesting is that we deal with megalomaniacs (those 5 people who own 80% of earth's resources).
I agree, it isn't superiority it would be considered knowledge if you subscribed to that idealism.
Yeah, sure. Except for, politicians and corporations who pay them have shittons of money, so they can pay all major media to write what they want to write.
A true fault of the American system, something I think that should have been reformed long ago.
It's not a two edged sword. If it allows corporations to rule instead of humanity, it is evil.
The recent ruling of the Supreme Court declaring companies as living entities almost made me vomit. I don't think Capitalism is an evil system though, just that like any other system it can be abused my malevolent people.
Become politically involved then, the world starts with you.
I hate half-assed people who turn a blind eye to politics, because politics is everything around us wether one like it or not.
Easier said than done. There are people who are restricted in politics in their country for various reasons, not everyone has the comforts we have in America of an open political system.
After all, I sadly doubt that some people will ever be enlightened, or let me say this in the NWO words, illuminated.
I have a question how do the NWO and Illuminati theories interact? Do people think the Illuminati run the NWO or are the basis of the NWO or what?
I'm just trying to be realistic, most countries wouldn't want to start a conflict because it wouldn't benefit economically for anybody. Take a look at Israel for example, whose products are boycotted.
Weapons manufactoring is a huge industry. A large part of the why America recovered from the Great Depression was weapons manufactoring.
Wars are controlled by corporations so they will come when those corporations decide it will benefit them the most. Sadly, it has nothing to do with actual citizens, because if it were so, there would pretty much be no wars. Even sadder part is the 'war' of those who believe certain conspiracies with those who defend the system that's destroying them. We are fighting with each other, instead of humanly gathering to take this system down. So in fact, we are, sort of, ALL guilty this system exists today.
If corporations truely controlled the wars they'd make the conflicts happen between countries they weren't a part of. If a war turned sour I'd imagine the U.S. raising huge taxes to finance the war effort (bad for an American Arms business) or even nationalizing the factories that produce arms.
Better bring out my tinfoil hat, just in case.
If they're taking the time to try to share their reasoning with you, you could at least take the time to read and respond seriously. I don't agree with either Anachron or HappyTauren but I'm not going to go to trolling to show them my opinion. Simply put it's childish.
I believe in you, the evidence is strong and undeniable!
Please post more!
You're using a very strong arguing technique. "When I am proven wrong, debated or simply not agreed with - I'll stop debating, answering and simply just ignore and report you. That way I can't be wrong"
"Whenever I'm met with evidence that shows otherwise than my biased, unsupported (regarding evidence, facts) belief I'll report you"
Just kindof a pointless post. You can disagree with them, or refute their evidence or request sources. You can point out a lack of evidence as the basis of your disbelief, but simply posting to tell them how wrong they are is, well, wrong.
Believing in someone is called occultism
I wouldn't know enough about the definition of an occultist to know if that's true. I'll probably search this tonight.
The fact that me or Anachron don't provide evidence most of the time is because it can easily be reached since it is all around you. Whether you'll believe it or not is the part that's up to you.
Ehhhh I don't really believe that response. I feel if evidence was so easily pulled from the enviroment there would be far more cases of "awakenings".
What he means is that people who don't know anything on the subject shouldn't comment here. That is, to say, people who know about these conspiracies, but don't believe in them, are welcome to post. It is just that trolling is very tasteless when things like these are being discussed.
Agreed, a rather tasteless act.
Yes, you're right. Supporting your claims with facts, like established science is silly
Really? If you're such an advanced debater why are you resorting to belittling him? Ad homin attacks are pointless and make you lose credibility (although I am guilty of doing this all the time, it's only when I look at it objectively that I can respond clearly).
Really? I'd say the contrary. Trolling in serious discussions is tasteless as there is some sense and meaning to them. Regarding this, I'd say trolling would be a legitimate response since it's just plausible as the Illuminati-theory itself.
There are some people that take this discussion seriously. Even if I don't believe him I still owe to him the time of day to make his arguement.
Not only are there many things science can't prove, this is something science wouldn't WANT to prove. Why? Because if science was for the good of us all we'd have free renewable energy sources and food everywhere. But we don't, and not because we can't, but because dictators don't want you to be truly free and independent because that means they lose power. What is there not to understand? It is as clear and transparent as it can get. If you were a dictator, would you want to lose your position of power so that people can live better? Could you even think about it? You could, but you'd have to be one to answer that question.
There have been popular dictators in society, who gain the peoples love by using their total power for the good of the society. A dictatorship doesn't have to be evil.
@HT, just stop talking to him. He is just overwhelmed by the information and wants to live in this good old world he loved to enjoy, even though the world is completely against him.
If the point of this thread is to spread information, would you really quit as soon as you run into an obstacle? If anything it should make you more fervent to convince him of his folly.
As for me, I am not going to argue with people who attack me personally or the idea of this thread. If they don't like it, they can just go somewhere else, or even better, turn off pc and work for the system. (/evil smile off)
See above
Most of their claims were refuted. Also while Architects and Engineers are quite experienced in their fields, I would find their position about the explosions more convincing if they were physicists (spellcheck?), specifically, the part about how it fell wrong.
It was an interesting read though. Thank you.
You want to enlighten people, but are not opt for discussion unless people are informed on the subject. This seems pretty contradicting.
Oh and when you're making a thread on illuminati, which is a pop-culture phenomenon you should atleast expect some controversy and counter-claims. Going by and reporting people would ruin the discussion and thus claiming you don't have shit on your case. It's just like with alternative medicine today that has become immensively popular these days, when our state channel wanted to make a show to try them out. The national foundation sent email to all it's members to withdraw from the show to avoid ridicule. You could say this is the exact same case.
This baffled me aswell.
I wonder why you even put up a thread in off-topic if you wanted a serious discussion.
Probably because it would warrant far more responses than Medivh's Tower.
Science.. can't prove.. Yes I'm quite sure you're fully aware of the limitations and restrictions of science, of what it can and can not prove.
Science is only as accurate as to how well we are able to observe the world around us.
I'll read any link you provide me with, but I know it will be any of the following:
1) Some tinfoilers blog
2) Another tinfoilers blog
3) A tinfoilers blog
If you show me that, whatever conspiracy theory you're speaking for actually exist in reality. I want documentation, the agreement of an authority within any field wouldn't hurt - basicly: facts. Then I'll regard it as real. If not, well yeah.
You accepted the Wikipedia citation without crying about it, which is only a semi-protected source. Now you want a protected source verified by a professional with the field? Sounds like there's a double standard.
====================
That's all I have time to respond to at the moment. This really did fill up 4 more pages in about 16 hours.
