Mods, and mapping limits

[BSWhunter]

You remeber those maps in wc3 that were filled with exactly the same models, over and over again?
Yeah, so do I

You remeber the pain of having to redownload that 8mb map that you really liked, whenever it got updated, even though you allready had most of it sitting in your maps folder?
Again, so do I

Mods, will fix this. Now model/texture makers can simply bundle together their skins/models and put them in one mod, then upload it. This will probally reduce the overall mapsize by about 50-60% compared to wc3's

So to anyone complaining about how we're going to fit all the models we need into our maps, this is how.

 

[maskedpoptart]

Thanks for telling us. Could you possibly link me to the source of this information?

 

[Gleeful]

Could you possibly link me to the source of this information?

In the words of Mr. Bush:

This is what we call, speculation.


At any rate it doesn't matter if they fix the issue with filesize. The real problem is that we're going to be limited in the quantity of maps we can make because there is no locally hosted system, which sucks.

 

[Statharas]

*cough* There is no source. Though, what he says is true. That's how mod files work. They are custom mods for you to use in your maps. Just make your map, and put all new data in the mod.

 

[redmarine]

What the guy above said. Also, we already got that feature in the Galaxy editor and Blizzard did state that in a twitter Q&A session.

 

[mrzwach]

At any rate it doesn't matter if they fix the issue with filesize. The real problem is that we're going to be limited in the quantity of maps we can make because there is no locally hosted system, which sucks.

Very rare for anyone to actually have anywhere close to 5 finished, released, and not shit map projects. In the event that they do, Blizzard can raise the limit on how many maps they get to publish.

Oh, and yeah, basically thats how mods work. Effectively, if 20 maps use the same model, you download it once.

 

[Statharas]

As an example, take a look at Wc IV. They (we) are going to release a mod with Melee maps. The melee maps will depend on the mod, which will overide basic stuff in all of those melee maps. Of course, if you make Starcraft II melee maps depend on the mod, they will be playable with Wc IV content.

 

[Gleeful]

Very rare for anyone to actually have anywhere close to 5 finished, released, and not shit map projects. In the event that they do, Blizzard can raise the limit on how many maps they get to publish.

Maybe it's not an issue for you, but it may be for other people. Some people made more quick and dirty, fun mini-game type things. The limit is just needless restrictions.

For me, I am working on roleplay maps. Roleplay maps use a lot of different terrain sets while still being essentially the same map. So having a limit on the number I can produce is not comforting, at all.

 

[PurplePoot]

I'm not convinced that less roleplay maps is a bad thing.

 

[KaboomMaster]

I'm not convinced that less roleplay maps is a bad thing.

Yeah but that's just your opinion. To limit the number of maps people can "publish" is just blimey f*cking stupid. Normally I wouldn't really care but the fact that Blizzard has the nerve to state that their changes are helping mod/mapmakers when half the related stuff that they've shown off does the opposite just pisses me off. Yeah I hate Dota with a passion however I do feel semi sorry for Dota fanatics how want to be able to host Dota, Dota Special, Generic AOS, AOS the AOS, Super Dota, and however many other variants or clones they want. For RP maps this is an ever larger issue because you can find upwards of 30 different settings which people can only host 5 at a time because of restrictions means a lot of dicking around just so some guy and his friends can play Asteroid RP rather than Jungle RP.

 

[mrzwach]

Uhh, Blizzard can increase the limit. What makes you think that everything in a beta is finalized anyways?

I imagine that you would be able to simply ask for more map slots, or request them through some method. Regardless, I highly doubt they would simply ignore the fact that people who make things like melee maps want to make more than five, so meh.

 

[Rui]

*cough* There is no source. Though, what he says is true. That's how mod files work. They are custom mods for you to use in your maps. Just make your map, and put all new data in the mod.

What happens if you want to change your mod? Do you have to redownload the mod? As a resource deposit it'd work fine, but unit changes might be better kept in the actual map.

By the way, this is going to be highly restrictive for actual Roleplaying maps. Not RPGs. I'm talking about maps like DoBRP, CotMRP, and the likes. I heard these maps already existed in Starcraft, but with this limitation, as well as the maps' ridiculous low dimensions, the Roleplay maps are highly compromised.

 

[Fussiler1]

I'm not convinced that less roleplay maps is a bad thing.

D:

I heard these maps already existed in Starcraft

Yep, it's called Cortex RP, developed by TBM.

Anywho, thanks for informing us.

 

[Statharas]

What happens if you want to change your mod? Do you have to redownload the mod? As a resource deposit it'd work fine, but unit changes might be better kept in the actual map.

By the way, this is going to be highly restrictive for actual Roleplaying maps. Not RPGs. I'm talking about maps like DoBRP, CotMRP, and the likes. I heard these maps already existed in Starcraft, but with this limitation, as well as the maps' ridiculous low dimensions, the Roleplay maps are highly compromised.

I am sure Blizz will force all players to upgrade their mod before playing a map.

 

[redmarine]

I am sure Blizz will force all players to upgrade their mod before playing a map.

Blizzard did state that authors could decide what versions that could be played. So, yeah everyone would have to upgrade.

 

[Dr Super Good]

The major problem is battlnet is down. Phase 1 was too short for there to be any custom models and stuff made to test out the mods. Hopefully by phase 2 we will see some mods comming out.

The mod system is good in that models like those THW provides can be easilly included in a map. Model mods should have the model data created and a dummy actor for the model also created so that it can be used easilly.

Also as there are no limits for the number of mods a map can use, (as far as I know) you could technically use as much custom data as you want.

 

[Triceron]

My question is, how are mods distributed over bnet?

Say you have 30mb of custom content data (models, sounds, images) and a 5mb map. Your map requires the mod to run properly. How would this be distributed? Will a player have to download from an external source knowingly, or does Bnet support allowing 30mb mods to be downloaded?

 

[Dr Super Good]

You click to join the game, as you do not have the mod it should download. After downloading is finished, you enter a game of it.

 

[Statharas]

I believe that they will change the limit to more than 50 MBs.

 

[Gallin]

Would you than have those models?

 

[redmarine]

Would you than have those models?

Good point. This could only work/or more efficient if high profile websites such as Hiveworkshop would make some community accounts used solely for distributing resources inside of mod maps.

It'll be interesting.

 

[Dr Super Good]

The idea is models come with mods.

Mods are basically data packs to enhance your map and so your map should support large numbers of them.

 

[Gallin]

Ya but if you need the models in the map to play does that mean that you now have them available to you in the editor?

Also another question kinda dealing with the first do you think there will be a way to protect those models from other people using them? Hopefully not for those modeling impaired

 

[Triceron]

There's no map protection implemented period, as it was not even working when it was available.

Hopefully map protection is extended beyond maps and simply 'wiping triggers'. I wouldn't see the point of selling mods if everyone has instant access to the source files.

 

[Hiruty]

okay so mods will be little lets say magazines. You already have the magazine why redownload or buy it?. a updated version of the magizine comes out but only with new content so it uses last isue content the latest isue content.

The best use i can see of this is Terraining Starter, Basic, Moderate, Full and Extended kits will be realesed and you just implant those mods into your map. Whala no more redownloading 3mb of the same doodads and units. Mods will also be useful in my eyes for reducing the size of maps because NOTHING but custom MAP data will be downloaded such as the TERRAIN ITSLEF, UNITS ( including spells attacks ect ) and LIGHTING other than war3 wich downalod everything as one.

 

[Rui]

Unless the mod is like the campaign data of Warcraft III (are they?). You create a first «layer» of custom units, for example, and in each individual map you can change those units or even create new ones that are unique to that map. I'd prefer having it working like that.

 

[mrzwach]

I would think mods shouldn't be protected. Probably let users show off their mods, with stats for how many maps use that mod and the like, so that people can get credit for their work. ofc, with the premium map system, some might have to be protected, which would suck.

Effectively, a person could create a few models, with a few cool animations. Then, the person makes actors for these models, allowing them to be animated ingame. He sticks all of his resources in one or more mods, and then mapmakers can download these mods and have access to the actors/models. Then, when players download the map, if they already have the mod there is no need to redownload it - meaning that if you already have downloaded a couple maps and their respective mod data, any new map using the same data would be able to be downloaded extremely quickly.

Regardless, mods can store any kind of data - in addition to models/textures and the like, people could share cool/complex abilities via mods, and if someone was creating a project with multiple maps, a mod would allow them to change things like units stats with ease. You can also share sound effects and soundtracks with ease through mods, allowing for maps to actually have not crappy sounding music while not being too large filewise. Seems rather awesome to me.