Moderation on Chat

[Captain Griffen]

First, bans are pointless if you do not tell people why they were banned.

Second, random bans. Some of the chat mods just ban completely random people, likely due to a lack of capability to read and understand situations, and, often, English.

Example:

[20-08-50] MasterHaosis: calling someone retarded isnot opinion
[20-08-54] MasterHaosis: is it?
[20-08-57] Anarki: yes it is
[20-09-01] Anarki: it is his opinion that you are retarded
[20-09-01] Asomath: Asomath>Anarki>MasterHaosis
[20-09-03] Asomath: ?
[20-09-04] frostwhisper: He's not calling you opinion.
[20-09-07] Anarki throws Asomath out the window.
[20-09-11] frostwhisper: I mean retard.
[20-09-13] frostwhisper: Sorry.
[20-09-20] Asomath: The glass broke the first time
[20-09-20] frostwhisper: He's voicing an opinion.
[20-09-23] Asomath: I feel no pain
[20-09-33] MasterHaosis: Okat thats it
[20-09-44] Asomath: owwww
[20-09-47] Asomath: That pain
[20-09-47] frostwhisper: Ahm...
[20-09-53] frostwhisper: Well.
[20-09-54] Asomath: Ohwait, the Banhammer didnt happen?
[20-09-57] Anarki: yeah, try the 100ft fall
[20-10-11] Anarki has been banned for 6000 seconds by MasterHaosis
[20-10-13] frostwhisper: You're gonna fight the world, ban us all, for telling you the truth?
[20-10-15] frostwhisper:
[20-10-18] frostwhisper: What the hell?
[20-10-19] HINDYhat: O.O
[20-10-42] frostwhisper: Dude... are you crazy?
[20-10-43] HINDYhat: WHY DID YOU DO THAT? xD
[20-10-44] frostwhisper: What did he do?
[20-10-46] Asomath: I like lobster, you?
[20-11-24] frostwhisper: You just randomly banned a person.
[20-11-40] frostwhisper: Do police officers shoot civillians at fucking random...?!
[20-11-45] MasterHaosis: [01-09-42] Anarki: yes it is
[20-11-50] Asomath: yes, but thats not the point
[20-11-51] MasterHaosis: [01-09-47] Anarki: it is his opinion that you are retarded
[20-11-55] HINDYhat: rofl xD
[20-12-00] MasterHaosis: [01-10-40] Asomath: Ohwait, the Banhammer didnt happen?
[20-12-05] Asomath: oh fuck
[20-12-08] Asomath: XD
[20-12-08] HINDYhat: You banned Anarki for telling you waht Griffen's opinion was? xD
[20-12-10] frostwhisper: YOU BANNED SOMEONE FOR STATING WHAT SOMEONE ELSE'S OPINION WAS...........?!
[20-12-11] MasterHaosis: Actually it happened

This is also an example of not telling someone why they are banned before banning them.

I recommend actual procedures for banning people. Such as telling them before you ban them that you are banning them, and why. Any mod failing to comply with this would be stripped of their chat powers automatically. Where it is necessary to ban immediately (eg: to stop them mass spamming porn links), they would have to PM them.

At the moment, it's total chaos, and totally ineffective, turning chat worse than without moderation. Chat mods need also to be competant and able to comprehend English fully.

 

[donut3.5]

It's not chat mods, it's.. a chat mod.
--donut3.5--

 

[frostwhisper]

That was just an example. Fact remains that chat mods tend to issue bans without giving reasons. Sometimes bans are even random. Though in the case of some mods, this occurs more often.

Anyway, like I said in chat, police officers don't shoot the civilians without reason. Unless the offense is shining in everyone's face, it is the chat mod's duty to either warn the person by words and/or kick, or (in the case of major offenses) say a quick "You have been banned for this and this" and ban the person. Not just come out of the blue (like when stealthed) and go WHAM! Banned.

The ban illustrated in this strip of chat logs (which has also been addressed here) is completely random though. That's the worst case of bans lately. And it's not a single case either. I've seen people being banned for preposterous reasons, like voicing opinions, or giving professional feedback.

That's just unacceptable really.

 

[Anarki]

lololol 15 minutes of ban left and counting

 

[PurplePoot]

Anyone mind if I merge this thread with the other, seeing as they're in essence the same thing?

 

[frostwhisper]

I would encourage it actually.

And Anarki, that post wasn't really contributing, so yeah. Don't do that.

 

[Hawkwing]

I really hate all this crap about a certain chat mod. I don't want to have to hear it publicly. We all understand that some unfair moderation has been happening lately and it's good to get feedback. But I think this isn't something that we should be bringing up for everyone to give their opinion on. We all know it's not good and that's simple enough.

 

[Anarki]

what other thread?

 

[PurplePoot]

Yours, Anarki.

 

[Anarki]

pfft, that thread is spam anyway, this thread should be dedicated to serious discussion

 

[PurplePoot]

Alright, it's settled then.

Anyways, the second part of what I said in the other thread applies here as well (quote is below for reference):

It's already been raised in private, but given the way my previous raised subjects have been received, I can't guarantee any results.

 

[frostwhisper]

I really hate all this crap about a certain chat mod. I don't want to have to hear it publicly. We all understand that some unfair moderation has been happening lately and it's good to get feedback. But I think this isn't something that we should be bringing up for everyone to give their opinion on. We all know it's not good and that's simple enough.

This is not about a certain chat mod. It's about the chat entirely. I, for one, believe that Griffen made a good point, and that chat mods should go through a little course coached by their superiors so that they understand the point as well.

 

[Hawkwing]

Yes. I absolutely agree with you. My point is that basically the same thread has been made about 5 times this past month. Can't you just keep it to the Admin Contact and let Ralle deal with said person, or something.

 

[donut3.5]

Well, we are supposedly entrusted by the Directors to ban when we see fit.
The best option to do is to bring this up directly to the Directors. If they no longer see us responsible enough, then they will remove the abuser of power.
--donut3.5--

 

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

I can understand wanting the chat to be a little cleaner. Really, there's a lot of shit talk and rule breaking.

But moderation in itself doesn't work unless someone is there, and if that someone isn't AFK, and if that someone cares or knows the proper punishment.

I suggest you do the same as you did with the Something Else forum.

A first channel, for development talk, code talk and generally smart chatting, with actually enforced rules about what should be said. But add a secondary channel, with no moderation and no rules (except maybe for the link to porn stuff and the like). Make sure to warn whoever enters the second channel knows that no one takes responsability for what happens there and that no one cares what happens in that channel.

Bang, problem solved.

 

[Ghan_04]

Thank you for all of the suggestions.
I am currently considering several options for the chat at this point. I think that far too much rule breaking goes on there, but I also think that the rules are being enforced inappropriately. Stay tuned for updates - I am on this case.

 

[Captain Griffen]

Thank you for all of the suggestions.
I am currently considering several options for the chat at this point. I think that far too much rule breaking goes on there, but I also think that the rules are being enforced inappropriately. Stay tuned for updates - I am on this case.

'enforced inappropriately'? Understatement of the year. Random bans are not merely 'inappropriate'.

 

[Kimbo]

I have banned some people without telling them the reason but at most times a written reason is not needed, its pretty obvious on what they have done to get me to ban them. eg. Flaming someone or filling the chatroom with "THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST" or that stupid MH smiley spam crap. These users however know the rules and they SHOULD know better, thus a warning should not suffice, if these users do want to know why i banned them they can provide me with a pm and i will gladly answer them. Users who I catch who are multiaccounting in chat get no warning, its just what i do as its an obvious NO NO, and if they have a good reason then they better pm me.

So in turn, i am abit guilty but im not as stubborn as you think or that heartless. Usually i warn the new people but i dont with the older more well known people as they should know the rules well enough.

BUT, i do however REALLLLYYY want the reasons comment added to bans as its far more beneficial. But i do like to ban people quickly instead of taking ages to type some shitty reason, but im still very very very for it. This has been asked for MANY MANY MANY times and long ago and it still hasnt been added. I am very disapointed.

Tee hee hee..

 

[TheDivineBoss]

'enforced inappropriately'? Understatement of the year. Random bans are not merely 'inappropriate'.

Haosis send me the screenshots, looks to me that you and the others are just whining about the facts that he kicked and/or banned for flaming, trolling and gossiping about him. Every regular (chat)moderator would do the same as he.

 

[HINDYhat]

TheDivineBoss, yeah, Anarki sure did flame, troll and gossip a lot.

 

[TheDivineBoss]

And Griffen too.

Edit: Haosis must mail you the screenshots.

 

[frostwhisper]

If you must bring that onto the table, TDB, I'll just say that we tried bringing the chat moderation topic in chat, and some of us got bans for expressing our opinions about the way MH does his job. Instead of listened to, we got kicked, banned, insulted and accused. If you share his vision that this is trolling from our side, then you're wrong.

But let's not make this all about one accident. We're talking general here.

 

[Gilles]

I can understand wanting the chat to be a little cleaner. Really, there's a lot of shit talk and rule breaking.

But moderation in itself doesn't work unless someone is there, and if that someone isn't AFK, and if that someone cares or knows the proper punishment.

I suggest you do the same as you did with the Something Else forum.

A first channel, for development talk, code talk and generally smart chatting, with actually enforced rules about what should be said. But add a secondary channel, with no moderation and no rules (except maybe for the link to porn stuff and the like). Make sure to warn whoever enters the second channel knows that no one takes responsability for what happens there and that no one cares what happens in that channel.

Bang, problem solved.

I'm totally against multiple chat channels. We have a staff channel that is never used, and I would guess that the SE chat would become the popular one, and the useful one will be dead.

 

[Pyritie]

I'm totally against multiple chat channels. We have a staff channel that is never used, and I would guess that the SE chat would become the popular one, and the useful one will be dead.

It would get rid of some of the problems though. If there's not enough people around, people would tend to stick to one channel. Once it starts getting crowded, then people could split into two channels.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

The truth is that people like being around other people -- We're social animals. One channel would fill, and unless someone made you go to another, you wouldn't leave on your own; at least, most people wouldn't.

And why is this so difficult a problem, really?
It's very obvious, based on chat predispositions, who is going to do the job well and who just won't. This MasterHaosis fellow is quite obviously a blemish upon the staff, so what's the problem? Get rid of him. I don't care how much of a friend he may be to X member of the site or Y member of the staff, based on his own qualifications, he is incapable of performing the job. Done, easy solution, he needs to go.

There are other trickier situations, but even those must be dealt with in a methodical manner. I don't care how qualified someone is, if he or she cannot get along with the common user, or has to hide behind a new name -- perpetually confusing users, or insults people at random, etc. then he/she is not suited for the position of moderator, much less anything else. Seriously, just be objective and the solution to this problem arises with virtually no work whatsoever.

Remove him from moderation, continue with your lives.

 

[Gilles]

I still say it would just make problems worse. Honestly, I know I'm not in Chat a lot, but I hardly ever see problems. Is it really all that bad?

Edit: What Rising said in the first paragraph is what I'm thinking. Thanks for helping me sort out my poor communication skills.

 

[frostwhisper]

Actually Dusk, newbies like Haosis because he promotes spam among them, what with his smiley addiction or whatever. As far as I've heard 99% of the staff are displeased with him, apart from Ghan and Ralle. That's what's keeping his situation from improving.

 

[Gilles]

Actually Dusk, newbies like Haosis because he promotes spam among them, what with his smiley addiction or whatever. As far as I've heard 99% of the staff are displeased with him, apart from Ghan and Ralle. That's what's keeping his situation from improving.

You might be surprised how many aren't.

 

[Mecheon]

I still say it would just make problems worse. Honestly, I know I'm not in Chat a lot, but I hardly ever see problems. Is it really all that bad?

Y'know, I normally think it isn't, but oh damn did you miss a bit of a shitstorm later

But yeah, chat moderation...

As usual, I blame the users for needing us to go head over heals just to stop you from ripping each others throats out

 

[Captain Griffen]

And Griffen too.

Edit: Haosis must mail you the screenshots.

You missed the sarcasm in HINDY's voice. Anarki got banned for NO reason. The only reason MH gave was that Anarki stated what my opinion is.

There is NO defence for what MH did in banning Anarki, aside from incompetance, and that level of incompetance pretty much requires that you remove them from staffing.

In my case, I when you have a situation where a moderator bans anyone who tries to discuss with the admins that that moderator is incompetant and retarded...well...you have a pretty screwed up situation.

 

[Hakeem]

Make sure to warn whoever enters the second channel knows that no one takes responsability for what happens there and that no one cares what happens in that channel.

And that any and all logs will be strictly denied. Hard to deny a post that isn't deleted, but you can only prove a chat message really came from the Hive within about 15 seconds after someone posted it.

if these users do want to know why i banned them they can provide me with a pm and i will gladly answer them.

Last time I checked, users do not know who banned them.

I'm totally against multiple chat channels. We have a staff channel that is never used, and I would guess that the SE chat would become the popular one, and the useful one will be dead.

Because SE is the only forum people use?
While the SE channel may be more popular, it would definitely not take all the activity.
I can elaborate more on my reasons for this, but it would be theory.

 

[Pyritie]

People could be in both channels too, if they wanted.

 

[Rui]

Haosis's poor and repeated English might not make him the best of moderators, but still, he is a valuable user. I don't think you should be jerking around with him either, what you did there was clearly put the tail in the alligator's mouth to see when would he bite. I am even tempted to say you did it on purpose so you have a reason to complain.

I'm not 100% defending people like MasterHaosis should be in the staff, but until we can get someone both active and mature on Chat, you either adapt to MasterHaosis or you can go try to be funny to other site.

 

[Gilles]

Talking about Haosis...

Regardless of his moderation skills, a lot of users are just plain assholes to him, and I would kick them (if continued, ban) too. Griffen for example just outright flames him and then complains when he gets banned? I think people have taken a very poor approach to this whole situation.

 

[StasMaN]

MasterHaosis is a truly valuable user of our community , probably the one of the friendlest , nicest and kindest persons I've ever talked to . He doesn't ban/kick for completely nothing and like Gilles said

a lot of users are just plain assholes to him

for a completely no reason , except , probably , personal grudge . If I was the webmaster , I would promote him to global moderator , or even one of the administrators .

Captain Griffen , you got banned for a reason and since you started a thread to flame someone , I'll tell you what I think about you : you are an imbecil but-kisser and also a total annoyance , you should get -repped for the creation of this thread in the 1st place .

The thread can be closed now

 

[Captain Griffen]

MH bans people for no reason. Check that log to do with Anarki. Learn2read.

He also bans people and then refuses to tell them why. He actually refused point blank, in front of two directors, to tell me why I was banned. Such actions would on any properly run site result in the immediate removal from the staff.

 

[Steel_Stallion]

MH is nice, not a bad person. But I really hate his reviews.

 

[StasMaN]

MH bans people for no reason. Check that log to do with Anarki. Learn2read.

He also bans people and then refuses to tell them why. He actually refused point blank, in front of two directors, to tell me why I was banned. Such actions would on any properly run site result in the immediate removal from the staff.

I saw screenshots of you flaming him

 

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

Criticising =! Flaming

 

[Captain Griffen]

I saw screenshots of you flaming him

Relevance to either of those two points? None.

 

[Devine]

Relevance to either of those two points? None.

Don't be such an ass, Master Haosis is a fine mod. You're just Trolling him and giving him a hard time! No wonder he bans you without telling why.

 

[Pyritie]

You haven't seen him when he gets pissed.

He's a nice guy normally, but when he gets mad he just goes into some sort of frenzy and nobody can understand what he's saying.

 

[HappyTauren]

MH is just a regular serb. As such, he is no different than lots of.... "awesome" people.

Get it. Serbs SUCK. With exceptions. MH isn't one of those though.

 

[StasMaN]

MH is just a regular serb. As such, he is no different than lots of.... "awesome" people.

Get it. Serbs SUCK. With exceptions. MH isn't one of those though.

MH>You

 

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

MH>You

StaSMan doesn't have the right to talk anymore.

 

[StasMaN]

StaSMan doesn't have the right to talk anymore.

It's StasMaN , not StaSMan ,
Btw why ? because I'm correct ?

 

[Devine]

WILLTHEALMIGHTY has bin silenced by Agmed!
You can talk StasMan.
and yes HT, just because you make cool models or terrains, it doesnt mean that you can talk about MasterHaosis that way. He's cool and evrybody who gets to know him, likes him!

 

[HappyTauren]

WILLTHEALMIGHTY has bin silenced by Agmed!
You can talk StasMan.
and yes HT, just because you make cool models or terrains, it doesnt mean that you can talk about MasterHaosis that way. He's cool and evrybody who gets to know him, likes him!

Well. Jury doesn't like him. And jury liking you is something you can be honoured with. Basically, we are ELITISTS. We only like people who know who the hell they are and what the hell they are talking about.

StasMan has no right to speak anymore, block on MSN. And ironic how you ask if it is cause you are right.

 

[CMarket]

Captain Griffen I really don't know why you hate MasterHaosis so much. As far as I know you are a professional and respected user of the Hive and you have to accept that MasterHaosis, even though he has some trouble with his English, is one too. MasterHaosis is a friendly mod who always greets you in the chat, helps out when he can, actually gives a damn about you and is willing to help you to the end. He is the kind of mod that will never say no to you and will always find the time to answer your questions, review your map(back when he was a map mod) or just simply drop by in your user profile page and say Hi.

I honestly don't know why you dislike him so, but it really should stop. Sure, there are a few that think the same as you do, but most people like MasterHaosis and don't consider him a bad guy. As far as I've seen you and your pals have always started the fight first, even though MH didn't do anything to provoke it. You can't really expect to insult someone constantly and not get punished for it, can you? And then complain about being punished? What kind of backward logic is that?

 

[Rao Dao Zao]

I don't understand Griffen's gripes either.

Criticising a mod is one thing, but calling him "retarded" is quite another. That's an out and out flame, and there is nothing you can say to change that.