Minotaur's Labyrinth v1.9 + AI

[Kazeon]

This is extremely boring. No clear gameplay, I was just wandering around and picking some useless items, I mean I don't know what can I use them for? The minimap isn't corresponding with the actual labyrinth, it's really confusing. I can't even meet anybody else, or even the minotaur (I wish to fight him). The game is totally unchallenging, yeah we should play it in the dark room so we can sleep earlier. The map itself is extremely leakful, I need more than 15 seconds to close the warcraft after I played this game for no more than 5 minutes.

Well, overall this is another 5/5 garbage. This can't achieve more than 2/5 imho. I'm sorry for being too honest.

 

[Krazykid]

The camera is purposely made to be attached to the character to resemble a realistic situation where you see everything as if you are materially walking in the labyrinth. Believe me, any other type of camera would seriously ruin the atmosphere and gameplay.



It should be so but as I created most of the map, I consider it one of my own maps, that's why I still work on it. Oh, so you know how to remove the props. I would really like to know how.

Depends on how you want to remove them.. and yea this is deffinitly your own map now

 

[Shadow Fury]

This is extremely boring. No clear gameplay, I was just wandering around and picking some useless items, I mean I don't know what can I use them for? The minimap isn't corresponding with the actual labyrinth, it's really confusing. I can't even meet anybody else, or even the minotaur (I wish to fight him). The game is totally unchallenging, yeah we should play it in the dark room so we can sleep earlier. The map itself is extremely leakful, I need more than 15 seconds to close the warcraft after I played this game for no more than 5 minutes.

Well, overall this is another 5/5 garbage. This can't achieve more than 2/5 imho. I'm sorry for being too honest.

Honestly, I don't know if you are taking your revenge for me giving you 2/5 to Love Runner or if you really think this deserves 2/5, but in either cases, where are your suggestions? You can't just tell me this is garbage and nothing to improve the map in some way. Anyway, it's your opinion. The map is going to be updated soon and the Minotaur's AI should be fixed and work properly. I simply recommend you to try it again after the update and to give some useful suggestions on how to improve at least.

 

[Kazeon]

Honestly, I don't know if you are taking your revenge for me giving you 2/5 to Love Runner

That's the dumbest word in this site. Well, honestly I don't remember that you rated 2/5 on my map, so I can say no it's not a revenge. I thought I mention my points clearly, I said your gameplay is boring that means you need to fill it more. I said the map is leakful, then it means you need to fix it. I said the minimap is not corresponding, that means you need to change it. Don't be too pampered

Also I think the visual is just too mono-tone a.k.a boring. There were just walls, fogs, and skulls everywhere.

As for your information, I never give rating to hate but based on it's very actual level of quality. Don't be proud of 5/5 from moderator, but you should be proud if you get 5/5 from me, because my rating is never based on personal taste (or even revenge) but based on comparison from the other resources.

 

[Remixer]

Leaks should definitely be fixed. A few years back moderators did not even approve maps that had major leaks in them, don't know how that changed.

I have not played the map since the first time when it was really confusing and I wonder if you have been able to fix this error. The map has to give the player an idea what to do, not just leave him scared.

@Dalvengyr, no he does not necessarily need to change things you mention. In my opinion it would be dumb to show the layout of the labyrinth.

Just an idea - jumpscares (sounds&cinematic animation flashes)

 

[Shadow Fury]

That's the dumbest word in this site. Well, honestly I don't remember that you rated 2/5 on my map, so I can say no it's not a revenge. I thought I mention my points clearly, I said your gameplay is boring that means you need to fill it more. I said the map is leakful, then it means you need to fix it. I said the minimap is not corresponding, that means you need to change it. Don't be too pampered

That was obvious for me too but you didn't even tell me how should I do some things specifically. How should I fill the gameplay to let it be exciting for you? Some generic info like "it needs more excitement" is not enough for me to improve the map.
As for the minimap, it is not corresponding because this is a "labyrinth". It is purposely made to let you get lost in it and not to use a minimap as your personal GPS.

Also I think the visual is just too mono-tone a.k.a boring. There were just walls, fogs, and skulls everywhere.

This is the style of a horror map dude If you don't like it, it means you don't appreciate the style of horror maps.

As for your information, I never give rating to hate but based on it's very actual level of quality. Don't be proud of 5/5 from moderator, but you should be proud if you get 5/5 from me, because my rating is never based on personal taste (or even revenge) but based on comparison from the other resources.

Why should I feel proud if you give me 5/5? Your rating is as worth as anyone else's. Don't think that I will take your rating as the most important of all or that if a moderator gives to the map 5/5, it means I must feel very proud. And if I remember well, you were the one who complained a lot because people gave low ratings to your map. In your opinion, we know nothing about map-making (or at least that's my impression ) So if you don't feel satisfied of others ratings, you will unconsciously give low ratings to others.

 

[Vinz]

I do think the preview could be changed though, perhaps a view of the minotaur fighting people.

 

[Kazeon]

Again, I give ratings based on actual quality. Compared to other 5/5 maps, this one is obviously far below, am I wrong? This map don't have any strong impression, it's just another simple "run away" or "escape" map with a super monotone gameplay and visual. With a very limited action: it's just pick items and wander around while (perhaps) avoiding harmless traps. What else? It doesn't even leave any special impression to me. Some 3/5 or 4/5 maps can give a special impression to me like "Oh, this map has something new to offer." and honestly, that creativity is the most interesting thing in a map. But I can't find anything special here.

My rating system is absolutely better because it's not contaminated by my personal tastes. You can't say I'm not a fan of horror maps, in fact, perhaps, I'm the biggest fan of that "Saw Maniac" map. And actually, I didn't find this map is "terrifying" enough to be categorized as horror. You don't have to be proud indeed. What I was trying to say is: my rating is totally based on quality, so if I give you 5/5 that means your resource is very well qualified indeed.

I was not saying people have no map making experience, but I find most people here are having problems in giving consistent ratings. They don't know about something called standard of quality. They often give higher score to a less good one bla bla bla (I have said this likely more than ten times). Don't try to deny it, it's a fact.

And I have no grudges for any hater here.

Anyway, good luck in refining this map. Cao

 

[Shadow Fury]

How can you convince me that your review is based on facts if you give your own views? Some people think the map is actually terrifying but you don't. Others say the terrain is great for this map but you don't. This means that "you" are the one who thinks these things and therefore this is "your opinion", not your facts. Apparently, you do not know the difference between a "fact" and an "opinion" (don't try to persuade me of the opposite, I won't believe you after what you said). I may agree that some people just spam 5/5 to anything they like, but it doesn't mean that everyone giving 5/5 is a spammer or unfairly giving it to a map which doesn't deserve it. Your review is actually based on your personal taste and you cannot negate this in any way. If you would really base yourself on facts, then you would never say things that contrast what other people say.
After this discussion, I don't expect you to raise your rating if you are so obsessed to be the best reviewer because you give reviews based on facts and not on personal taste (which isn't even true)

 

[Kazeon]

Your review is actually based on your personal taste and you cannot negate this in any way.

(which isn't even true)

Your map is leakful it's a fact. Your map is too monotonous (walls, skulls everywhere) it's fact, the gameplay is extremely boring it's a fact (I can't even meet that mr. minotaur or anybody else in 10 mins of wander). Should I provide more facts?

You are obviously unable to get my point. You denied every of my posts with invalid arguments again and again.

If you would really base yourself on facts, then you would never say things that contrast what other people say.

Not because my statement is different from the others so you can conclude my statement is personal taste/opinion-ish. This site is filled with too random people. Most of them are not experienced and have no basis about everything they said. Whereas me, I have played hundreds of games and have made bunch of games so far. I know which is good and bad things about games. Sounds cocky indeed. You may disagree about my opinions after all, but at least, I'm experienced enough about game making and I always have references about everything I said.

 

[Shadow Fury]

As long as you believe that you are the most experienced in game-making and that the site is just full of noobs, you will never listen to me or to anyone else. Your opinions must take control over others opinions. Your facts must be considered divine. I don't really know what to say now, your so-called facts are not even of any use. It's a damn labyrinth, why did you expect a non-monotonous terrain? Of course there must be walls everywhere so why do you complain a lot about this? I'm not sure now if you know what does the word "labyrinth" mean. You cannot complain about walls everywhere or that the minimap doesn't correspond. if you are in a labyrinth!

the gameplay is extremely boring it's a fact

Are you talking seriously? This is clearly an opinion because this is what you think and not all people would agree on this (the proof is the previous comments)

(I can't even meet that mr. minotaur or anybody else in 10 mins of wander)

I really don't know how this happened because I tested the map 1000 times to be sure the AI works perfectly. But I told you, the map will be updated and the AI should be fixed if there was any bug.

 

[Vinz]

For fear factor, I suggest some kind of warning ping on the player's location if the minotaur is near/stalking him.

About removing doodads in-game, you can choose to 'Play "hide" Animation for Doodads in (Playable Map Area)'.

 

[Shadow Fury]

For fear factor, I suggest some kind of warning ping on the player's location if the minotaur is near/stalking him.

About removing doodads in-game, you can choose to 'Play "hide" Animation for Doodads in (Playable Map Area)'.

I shall try it you. Thank you!

 

[Remixer]

Dalvengyr might have a point saying it's not worth 5/5. It's hard for me to imagine that "run away" map is 5/5. Some kind of maps just can't reach the rating as they are not / cannot be enough unique and creative. Like melee maps on Director's Cut.

However that is not a reason to tell their map is bad, people you are too based on rated. I do not give a cookie about the ratings of my maps, it's fine as long as I myself am satisfied with the results (of mine).

I'll try to find time to test this map and give feedback.

@Dalvengyr, nope you cannot hide doodads, but destructibles.

 

[Remixer]

Remixer's Quality Control
Terrain
As the terrain in this map is not in a huge major role I pay more attention to its functionality. Nevertheless I am still having a few words of the terrain itself. Okay so firstly I am not really sure if having those arch and statue constructions on top of the cliff is really important, players wont really pay attention them even if they could see them. Second thing about the terrain is the doodads inside the labyrinth. They are really confusing. Why on Earth would there be natural stalagmites (that from from flowing water) inside a constructed labyrinth (it's made of tiles you know).

The survivor camera totally ruins the functionality of the terrain. I know you tried to reduce the area the player can see and make it more scary but it does not work the way you planned. The camera sometimes goes inside a cliff which looks really stupid. I also got stuck for a good 30 seconds between two walls, as it was really hard to turn facing along the corridor as the cliff infront of my camera got into the way every time (it blocked my cursor click on the floor). Also it is really hard to turn around at the dead-ends that there is.

Also because of the doodads in the labyrinth it is really hard to figure out which of the doodads block you, which of them do not. I got to the conclusion, all of them are walk-through but as I opened editor I saw I was wrong.

The small spider units around the labyrinth are disturbing. You could add some collision size so that they do not go so near the walls that they actually fly in the air, you know afterall they do have locust already.

Items
In this section I talk about the items functionality and their features. I am really glad you did manage to improve the items. However about the "net" models I wonder if you got the result you wanted, currently it seems like a trap. I wandered around the labyrinth for good 2 minutes before finding my first item. However in the next 1 minute I found 6 more items. It seems they can stack up pretty easily.

Another thing (a little disturbing) I noticed that the items stack. I had a torch, mithril axe and a some sword equipped at the same time, all in the same hand. Also as I played with Minotaur I noticed that the player bots actually acquired the items they needed to kill me in less than two minutes. I'd say the game is way too fast paced currently, for both. The minotaur and the runners. The huge size of the map does not really favor the minotaur and it makes it really boring for the runners.

Gameplay
The gameplay was not really as good as I expected. As runner my camera collided with the terrain, it was hard to estimate where I can walk through or how strong the minotaur actually is, or where he is. Actually I have no idea what happened, I suddenly just won by walking around. (I assume some other of the runner bots killed the minotaur without me having any clue what was happening.) You must fix these issues the player must know what is happening. I also met this one cool footman in the dungeon that I got control of. That was pretty cool except that it was pretty hard to control two units at the same time. The loading screen told me to "find despair". I had no idea what it was but guessed it was some kind of item, but then again, what cultist?

After I played as runner I switched sides, added two runners and became minotaur myself. That was pretty cool, the radar pointed out where the runners were, except that I was hoping I had something more to do except just wander around the labyrinth following the map pings. I wonder why did you make the runners as fast as the minotaur. As I finally found a runner he ran as fast as I did and I had to toss 3 boulders at him before I was able to hit him with basic hit, all because he turned around after the third boulder. You must figure out a way to make the game more fair for the minotaur. Also if there is 4 or more runners I think they could just gather up and rape the minotaur as the minotaur is really weak and it seems he does not advance in anyway.

The minotaurs gameplay is way more enjoyable because he has normal camera that does not collide with terrain, however I am a little concerned when it comes to the huge arch structures abouve the maze, does the camera zoom in or what? I never got to that part.

Items
In total there is a lot of progress to be done. The map is not in the stage where you could polish it, you must figure out the gameplay and balance it. The gameplay should be progressive not just monotone walking around maze, collecting items. The map is could be scarier and more intense. At the moment it is no intense, the runners role is really hard because of the camera, I can just imagine how hard it'll come if the minotaur is blocking is sight from the camera.

Scores:
Terrain: 2/5
Comment: The terrain has some detail, but their functionality is guestionable. The terrain at the moment do not work with the camera. Some doodads are out of the place.

Items: 3/5
Comment: Items are pretty nice however you might tune a bit their outlook and the way they work. Might be good if you would actually spawn items at random places and in a proper order. First stage 1 items, after a few minutes stage 2 and so on... giving more time to the minotaur before the runners come and kill him. Also change the "net" model. The minotaurs gameplay is really boring in this section as he can't progress in anyway.

Gameplay: 2/5
Comment: Gameplay as an idea is really unique but the execution lacks. The camera is first thing to fix. Then you must figure how to make the map more intense and interesting while playing it. The creepy music alone won't do it. You might want to check my suggestion list that I am going to link here after I make it in pastebin, just a moment. I thought it might we worth to notify you that the "boulder trigger" might get activated ingame when a runner and minotaur are near each other but with wall between them (trigger does not need sight).

Summary: 2/5
Comment: The map needs more work to get higher rating. I am not sure if the map is better than last time, however it has clearly changed the direction it's going. At the moment the map leaves player confused and is overall unclear what to do. The gameplay balance is also way off. Oh and by the way, I think the file name is too long for Warcraft III, it won't show up in the list. Shorten up the file name.

Rating: 9/20 (Bronze)

Suggestions

Minotaur's Labyrinth Suggestions

In this pastebin entry I list down suggestions for Minotaur's Labyrinth. Moving trough the gameplay then items and abilities and so on. I am first going to make suggestions and tell my opinion about the minotaur gameplay.

Minotaur Gameplay
So major demerit in gameplay while playing as Minotaur is that the gameplay is really boring. You are only given one task - chase down the runners. The fact that killing the is really hard does not help it. As the gameplay for minotaur is not really intense or hard you might want to spice it up with some things, such as new spells and triggers.
What could be changed:
- The radar trigger (it's too easy for the minotaur)
- Abilities (they are really useless at the moment, additionally minotaur runs out of mana way too quickly)
- Basic movement speed (you could add some cool trigger to this one but the runners must be slower than minotaur)
- Gameplay progress (the minotaur does not advance in anyway, unlike runners who can obtain items)

So basically what you need as a minotaur is more things to do, even radar is automatic. What if you'd make the minotaur more progressive maybe by adding levels or skills that you could actually improve. Or another, I think good alternative solution is that the minotaur gains stacks as he attacks/kills the runners.
Ability Ideas:
- Radar (Make the radar ability an actual ability so the minotaur can actually activate it, you however need to add some benefit for not using it so that the minotaur does not just have to spam the spell or limit its usage another way. Maybe every time minotaur uses the radar nearest player sees where the minotaur is located.)
- Bloodthirst (Every time Minotaur kills a runner it gains bonus health, manapoints. Additionally its attack damage and movementspeed is increased permanently.)
- Rage (Whenever Minotaur kills a runner it gains massive speed boost [150%] for around 20 seconds. Nearest runners are revealed for him automatically the runners being revealed also get a warning that they are being chased!)
- Evolving (Every 60 seconds Minotaur gets to upgrade one of his basic abilities (Charge|Boulder Toss|Blessing of Pasiphaë|Mirror of Lies) into a next level. Additionally same effect is granted when Minotaur kills a runner.)
- Charge (When Minotaur becomes in range of [500/650/800] of a runner that he sees Minotaur gains a massive movement speed boost [90/160/220]. The effect can only be activated once every [40/30/20] seconds and movement speed is changed back to normal after [6/8/10] seconds of the activation.)
- Boulder Toss (Minotaur tosses a giant boulder at the target enemy unit, dealing [15/30/60] damage and stunning the target unit for [1,5/2,0/2,5] seconds. If the target unit has a helmet item the stun is changed into a movement speed reducement of [20/40/60] percent.
- Blessing of Pasiphaë (Named after the mother of the Minotaur Blessing of Pasiphaë grants the minotaur passively increased health and mana pool, increasing them by [5/8/11] percent also Minotaurs health and mana regeneration are increased by [25/50/100] percent. Additionally Minotaur gains increased movement speed and base attack damage. Both are increased by [5/10/15].)
- Mirror of Lies (Minotaur summons [1/2/3] Minotaur Servants that can help him hunt down the runners. Minotaur Servants are weaker summons of the Minotaur. Additionally casting Mirror of Lies reduces the range of sight of the runners by [24/38/52] percent and slows them down by [10/20/30] percent for [4/9/14] seconds.

With similar/those abilities you can really spice up the gameplay as minotaur. Also when spells such as Charge, Radar or Mirror of Lies is cast runners should get a global message "Minotaur is charging towards a runner!" or "You are being spectated." or "Minotaur has cast Mirror of Lies!" That way players do not get randomly slowed or get charged at but they get idea what is happening around. Additionally you should add special effect to each spell. Radar for example could have "Reveal" ability effect on the runners it's cast on. Charge could make the camera of the runners tremble roughly. Such warnings make it also more intense for the runners as they know that the Minotaur actually is there, chasing them down.

Runner Gameplay
Runners game is already more interesting than Minotaurs. They can make progress by finding items. However they are superior compared to the Minotaur. I suggest strongly chasing the winning method. You can leave it as it is or change it. I would actually go for requirements to win. The requirements could be something like "Find a specific item". When enough requirements are met the player gets message "Your faith is strong enough..." After receiving the message the player is told to go to a certain place on the map to get teleported out of the labyrinth and win the game. When the a runner makes progress in the "winning" he gets "score". The Minotaur gets information on who are the leading players and the game automatically helps him hunt them down by pointing out where they are via the minimap or slowing their movement speed or some other way to make their progress harder. Take look at below how the system could work:
Score System:
- Score 1 (Completed 1 task. Causes no special effects.)
- Score 2 (Completed 2 tasks. Causes no special effects.)
- Score 3 (Completed 3 tasks. The runner gets pinged in the minimap for the Minotaur)
- Score 4 (Completed 4 tasks. The runner gets passively pinged in the minimap for the Minotaur. A ping occurs every 45 seconds.)
- Score 5 (Completed 5 tasks. The runners movement speed is reduced by 10 percent and his/her regeneration stops.)
- Score 6 (Completed all tasks. The runner is told to go to a certain place on the map. The minotaur gets a highlighted ping at the same place. This way the minotaur knows the place that one player is trying to reach.)

The final place the player must reach is random and is this way different for each player. It's a good idea to invent special items for the tasks, one of type on the map at a time. So in practice there is one Task 1 item, one Task 2 item, one Task 3 item... on the map same time. So if two or more players are doing the same task the same time they are also competiting against each other. Below is list of the possible task items:
Task items:
- Task 1 (Charm of Truth)
- Task 2 (Charm of Life)
- Task 3 (Charm of Time)
- Task 4 (Charm of End)
- Task 5 (Figure of Faith)

When any of these items is picked up by a runner the item is removed and the triggering runner is moved to the second task. Same item, that got removed spawns at a random location on the map. Runner can't pick up any task items that are not needed for their current task. When Figure of Faith is picked up by a runner completing Task 5 the player gets a message to go the marked location on the map. Minotaur also gets notified about this event.

That is only one example of winning. That is a "safe" way. As we all know there is also alternative way to win. By killing the Minotaur. If the ideas above get implemented the Minotaur gets a lot harder to kill. This is why there must be more items implemented into the map. I'd recommend to make it possible for the runners to upgrade their items. Having two of the same kind of item would upgrade them into one. Better one. For example two"Rusty Swords" would combine into a "Short Sword". Two "Short Swords" would combine into a "Sword". By each upgrade the items would get better stats. For example swords could get improved by their bonus attack damage, range and attack speed. For example the damage bonus on different swords could be [10/22/35/54]. This way the game gets more progressive and not so fast paced. Practically the items of stage one are more or less useless. This encourages the player to seek out for another one in order to improve his/her items. Also as the Minotaur gets pretty superior spells it's good idea also to give the runners something... more powerful. The items are great way to execute this. You could implement items such as "Speed Potion", "Health Potion", "Potion of Shadows". Potion of Shadows for example would make it impossible for the Minotaur to radar this certain player for a certain amount of time.

The passive stats of the runners can be reduced. This way the Minotaur gets more time to hunt them down before there is a risk he himself gets hunt down. The runners however have abilities in order to survive the early sighting of the Minotaur. Adrenaline Rush is a good example of a proper spell. However it could only last couple of seconds. Just enough to get out of the sight of the Minotaur.

With these changes in total the map gets more progressive as the Minotaur gets more powerful and as the runners progress in the Task completing it gets harder for them.

 

[Shadow Fury]

Well, basically I just took this map and left the main ideas and gameplay as they were without any change, that's probably why it might not be that great. I think I shall leave the map now to WendigoWars since I got really tired of working on this map. After all, I am the co-creator and the main idea of the map was not mine. Your suggestions are good Remixer though I don't agree on everything you said. The net, for example, has no problems for me and never looked like a trap. Spiders do not disturb me in any way and gameplay still achieves some success after all. When I tested the Minotaur, it was easy for me to hunt down the villagers, I don't know what's the problem.

Anyway, I leave all in the hands of WendigoWars. My part in creating this map is definitely over.

 

[Krazykid]

Well, basically I just took this map and left the main ideas and gameplay as they were without any change, that's probably why it might not be that great. I think I shall leave the map now to WendigoWars since I got really tired of working on this map. After all, I am the co-creator and the main idea of the map was not mine. Your suggestions are good Remixer though I don't agree on everything you said. The net, for example, has no problems for me and never looked like a trap. Spiders do not disturb me in any way and gameplay still achieves some success after all. When I tested the Minotaur, it was easy for me to hunt down the villagers, I don't know what's the problem.

Anyway, I leave all in the hands of WendigoWars. My part in creating this map is definitely over.

"Co- creator" yea right, he wanted you to make this for him, i have known him longer than you. he always does that kind of shit.

 

[Remixer]

I finally finished up my suggestion pastebin entry. It became longer than I expected. Here it is Click Here!

 

[Rex.]

Love it. One of the best survival maps I have ever played!

 

[JCarrill0]

I do hope the QQ between everyone settles soon, I almost wanted to stop reading and move on to another map cause of all the unnecessary posts under this map, but Then I thought, that's not fair, and TBH it was really enjoyable. I would go back to Remixers' review and take those points to focus on

 

[StoPCampinGn00b]

This map is a WIP and must be rejected for now. Please see the updated moderator comment for more details regarding the status of the map.

 

[Shadow Fury]

This map is a WIP and must be rejected for now. Please see the updated moderator comment for more details regarding the status of the map.

You cannot consider this map a WIP as it is complete in gameplay and then a lot of people adore the map so rejecting it is pointless. If it didn't have those damn leaks, then the map would follow all rules and would still be approved. I agree that the map cannot be approved now in its current state but at least it should be set back to pending.

 

[Remixer]

You cannot consider this map a WIP as it is complete in gameplay and then a lot of people adore the map so rejecting it is pointless. If it didn't have those damn leaks, then the map would follow all rules and would still be approved. I agree that the map cannot be approved now in its current state but at least it should be set back to pending.

Nevertheless, it seems unfinished and unpolished. I do not think it is a WIP either but I'd put it "Needs Fix".