Map Submission Rules - Screenshots Tax

[StoPCampinGn00b]

What do you feel about having screenshots to be mandatory to approve a map? This discussion is being continued from this MR discussion.

Here is the current rule:
•Submitted Map Resources need to have a good description on the Hive. It is a good idea to include map title, author, features list, short gameplay explanation, a credits list, screenshots, a changelog, etc.
A map description that only contains "Hope you like it, my first map" or "power core v3 new updates, see loadingscreen good map" will be rejected.

Link to rule page: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/rules-information-710/map-submission-rules-228244/


Basically, we need a poll

EDIT: I still don't have a standing.

 

[Daffa]

I will not make my final decisions yet, but it's along encourage and mandatory lines

 

[Deleted member 238589]

Voted for Not mandatory, but recommended.

For the most part, I agree with Shar. It's not hard to take a screenshot and post it, but I think that an informative description, even without screenshot, is good enough. Sure, it will make it less likely to be downloaded (I would never upload or even download a map without a screenshot in most of the cases), but how an author presents his work to the audience is his problem. At least, that's how I see it.

 

[Heinvers]

I don't think that it's a must but it would be Recommended if the specific user wants his map to get more attention.
Tbh only Cinematics and Terrain Templates should have Screenshots obligatory from start.

@StoPCampinGn00b I also think that it would be time to remove the link to -Kobas-'s description template from the Map Submission Rules since most users that handle it end up doing a jam out of the description (literally).

 

[Chaosy]

As I wrote in the map reviewers group, I don't see any reason to not include it. It doesn't take much time either.

Step 1: press printscreen
Step 2: open paint and press ctrl + V
Step 3: Save picture as
Step 4: Upload

 

[LordDz]

Considering almost every map without a screenshots gets the "Get a screenshot and a better description", I'd say we should have a need of a screenshot of the map.

+ People might care a little little little more about their map then.

 

[Shadow Fury]

For new users, adding screenshots can be pretty troublesome. Then, if the map description satisfies all the rules and conveys enough info, screenshots are not required. They are actually a very good addition to descriptions but I see no reason why we should force people to put them. People will run their risks by not adding screenshots.

My vote: not mandatory, but recommended

 

[Sclammerz]

For new users, adding screenshots can be pretty troublesome. Then, if the map description satisfies all the rules and conveys enough info, screenshots are not required. They are actually a very good addition to descriptions but I see no reason why we should force people to put them. People will run their risks by not adding screenshots.

My vote: not mandatory, but recommended

I somewhat agree to this.

My vote: not mandatory, but recommended

 

[Ralle]

As long as there is no upload box for map screenshots, it should not be required.

 

[StoPCampinGn00b]

I don't see a reason why adding screenshots should be a problem. It doesn't even take much time. Press F12, convert the tga file to jpg or something similar and done. That's it.

For some, it does take a lot of time to understand how it works. Multiple times a week I see someone ask how to add screenshots. Many time some users can't do it and need extra links be given to them to understand how to add them.

Everyone who has the time to create a good map, should have time for that.

Say a user uploads a quality map, but has no time to add anything to it at the moment. Everything in the map follows the rules except for screenshots missing. That right there, is dumping activity and resources from the site just because a rule that many complain about is enforced.

Those who don't have time for some screens, most likely don't put much time into their maps as well - and we all know the result of that all too well, don't we? Anyways, most new maps without screenshots have shown that they're bad

Perhaps the majority of maps that do not contain screenshots aren't meeting most of the other standards, but you're counting maps with an extremely lacking description in general. Let's take that away. The margin is not even that big anymore.

Why should we even test a map if the author doesn't even want to show us some of it? I mean, is ONE screen too much to ask? I don't think so.

One screen is not too much to ask. However, one screen being required for approval is unnecessary to ask. Why should 'we' even test a map without screenshots? There shouldn't really be a 'should' involved here. Choose what map you want to review. If there is no screenshots, so be it. The creator didn't want them even if it will state that it's recommended.

Considering almost every map without a screenshots gets the "Get a screenshot and a better description", I'd say we should have a need of a screenshot of the map.

If the rule changes, then it will be asked that users only request screenshots not on the map submission rule's / staff's behalf.

EDIT: Although it may look like I stand on the side of non-mandatory screenshots due to my criticisms, I still haven't decided.
Off-topic

@StoPCampinGn00b I also think that it would be time to remove the link to -Kobas-'s description template from the Map Submission Rules since most users that handle it end up doing a jam out of the description (literally).

Are you sure? Usually, I see those using -Kobas-' templates to have more lengthy descriptions than those who use the Vengencekael's generator.

 

[chobibo]

This reminds me of an old tale...

In the year 2001, a boy was browsing PS1 games... he was looking at the backside of each cd case for gameplay screenshots so he could have a bit of insight of what that game cd might contain.

After half an hour, the boy stumbled upon this game called 'Vagrant Story' which had 3 small in-game screen shots, he liked it and thought to himself; "Looks good, I hope it is though."

After rushing excitedly home, he fired up the game and engaged in a long gaming session: It was indeed a good game. Thanks to that screenshot, the boy decided to get the game.

That boy was me, chobibo. ♫ fanfare music starts playing ♫

Screenshots are important for map submissions, it gives the user an idea of what the game might be, of how it might play, and/or simply how it is visually entertaining. It's always better for someone who is browsing the submissions to see some screenshots because it provides a 'first impression' which could motivate them to try the said map. I remember I bought a shitty candy when I was a kid because the wrapper looked awesome and cool.

Of course, taking a bad screenshot of your map would be disastrous, it will indeed demotivate people from trying the map.

Anyway, I agree with senp☆i Shar Dundred and senp☆i Chaosy here. If you really are determined, then being ignorant of how to post a screenshot won't be too much of a hassle to you right?

 

[sonofjay]

As long as there is no upload box for map screenshots, it should not be required.

This.

 

[Chaosy]

This.

That's quite a bad argument. Then we don't need credits in the description either. Because there's no box for that either.

 

[Ralle]

No.

It's extremely easy to enter credits as text. Posting an image requires you to go somewhere else to upload it, much more complicated. I know the pastebin /works/ but it's not idea. I would much prefer everything regarding a resource stay linked in the resource and not referenced somewhere else. Links to all things in the pastebin may end up moving to a different link while things stored with the resource are guaranteed to stay working.

 

[Chaosy]

While entering credits is easy work, it takes just as much time (if not more) as adding screenshots.

If you haven't taken notes on the authors of the resorces used it will take quite a while to find every single model/texture used. They can be from different sites too which makes it a little more 'complicated' too. You can do it while developing it, but you can do that with screenshots as well.

 

[sonofjay]

You missed the point on Ralle's last post. Its easier and more convenient if there is an upload box on the upload page. Saves you the hassle on managing shits like the paste bin, albums or any 3rd party image storing site. With an upload box for images the pics will be just there and you will not worry about losing the pics when you accidentally deleted an album like what happened to me before.

 

[Chaosy]

That's.. actually not a problem unless you're really green with computers..

Ever Heard of a program called Gyazo? Basically it allows you to upload a certain part of your screen. With that program I can upload and put let's say 20 images in a hidden tag list within like 2-3 minutes.

I am not trying to advertise the product, I've heard of other programs with the same feature, but I have not tried them so..

If I were to do it manually with imageshack or tinypic.. (or the pastebin) it'd likely take a few minutes more, but 10 minutes max. Depending on how often they force me to fill out a capcha.

 

[Ralle]

Hosting images offsite is even more terrible. Ever heard of photobucket? All old images hosted there are gone. Sites come and go. It only makes sense to store images on the site itself.

 

[sonofjay]

Making screenshots even easier than they are right now? Seriously? What's the problem with clicking a few buttons because that's basicly it.

If we can make it more easier and convenient then why fucking not? I hate this "We're fine as it is so lets stop making things better".

 

[Heinvers]

And I hate this "Let's take the weakest argument and attack it instead of replying to the whole text." So what? The "making it easier"-thing is off topic.
The whole point of my post was that making screens IS already easy, I NEVER said that we shouldn't make it easier, I just said that it already IS easy enough to be understood by people who read the rules.

Question: What makes you think that users (mostly newbies) actually read the rules?

 

[Heinvers]

First of all you as map reviewers and/or map moderators will have to figure out a way to make them read the rules before delving into uploading unfinished and/or description-less maps.

Only after that the screenshots part can be implemented properly.

 

[Rex.]

There is one way to make them read the rules.

Every time when a person is about to create a user account. Then a pop will appear showing the rules. After that, they will have to answer some questions based on the rules!

That's the only way we can make them read the rules.

This is no joke, it works very well.

I hope Ralle the ulmate coder can understand this well.

 

[Shadow Fury]

There is one way to make them read the rules.

Every time when a person is about to create a user account. Then a pop will appear showing the rules. After that, they will have to answer some questions based on the rules!

That's the only way we can make them read the rules.

This is no joke, it works very well.

I hope Ralle the ulmate coder can understand this well.

It's actually a great idea if not for one thing only...
People might read the rules and answer correctly to the questions but still break them anyway. They could understand them very well and still not minding about them.

 

[Chaosy]

It's impossible to force someone to read the rules. If there is a question, and the answer is within the rules, use ctrl + F and find the section related to that question. SO in the end you made the person ready a minor part of the rules. And even if so, knowing about the rule, doesn't prevent him/her from breaking it.

This is off topic by the way. (^)

OT: In the end it comes down to this question: Is it worth the time to add this? the general user will save 1-2 minutes. There are already very easy ways to do it, so I'd say it's not worth the time at all.

 

[Heinvers]

It's impossible to force someone to read the rules. If there is a question, and the answer is within the rules, use ctrl + F and find the section related to that question. SO in the end you made the person ready a minor part of the rules. And even if so, knowing about the rule, doesn't prevent him/her from breaking it.

This is off topic by the way. (^)

It's not off-topic at all!

That's the main reason why maps end up uploaded without descriptions and/or unfinished.
Not reading the bare minimum or rules leads to that and new users getting rekt by map reviewers for not following critical ones like a minimum description.
Also laziness and over-excitement can lead to some negligence in therms of basic map submitting rules.

That's the truth.

As for the Screenshots part...

As long as there is no upload box for map screenshots, it should not be required.

 

[A Void]

Putting screen-shots is not hard, and it shows that you put more effort into description of your map. It shows that you care about your map/project.

A major downfall when there are no screen-shots. I don't even bother reading whole description of text without them. I see a map without a screen-shot - I just click "Go Back" button. I don't care if it is actually a neat map.

 

[Orcnet]

Probably the best way to let new users to fully understand on how to post screen shots is not stuffing them all of those fancy info about screen shots in the resource/s thread. Instead, directly post it at their profile or private message. Its not to be forceful though, but to be in touch with the user and to make it understandable. Along with being civil while discussing to the user on how to work the images correctly.