Magic the Gathering: SC

[GreyArchon]

[rainbow]Welcome to Magic the Gathering: SC[/rainbow]

What is MTG: SC?
Magic the Gathering: SC is a 5-player custom map, intended for play on battle.net. For the future, AI is planned so it can also be played as a single-player map.
A player takes control of a specific MTG color. Each color has its' own strengths and weaknesses, which are in turn based on the way a color is usually played in the famous cardgame. For example, RED is great at offense, but lacks strength in defense. In turn, WHITE is a more defensive color to play.
What does SC stand for?
Starcraft. This map is a remake of the original custom map MTG, which was a starcraft map.
How do I play?
First of course, download the map from the database, here. Then, just host it and find 4 more people!
Though dozens of different strategies are possible, some things ring true for all colors:

• If your wizard dies, you lose. Game over. Protect him well.
• Place your wizard on beacons with units next to them to summon that creature.
• Place your wizard on beacons with buildings next to them to cast that spell.
• Click on the unit/building near the beacon to see its' description.
• Elemental Mana is what makes the world go 'round. Get it by killing enemy creatures, or simply waiting.
• Look carefully at what spells your enemies cast!
• Every 10 seconds, your Basic tier 1 units will spawn.
• Every 10 seconds, if you have at least 2000 Elemental Mana, your Basic tier 2 units will spawn.
• Every 10 seconds, if you have at least 4000 Elemental Mana, your Basic tier 3 units will spawn.
• To perform a mass attack, move your unit in the top-left of the map to the appropriate beacon.
• To summon Multicolor Creatures, move your unit in the top-right of the map to the appropriate beacon.
• To fix the camera, type -camera.
• To kick a player after they have been defeated, type -kickcolor. (examples: -kickwhite, -kickred, -kickblack)
• Turn tips on and off with -tipson and -tipsoff.

I hope you will enjoy playing MTG: SC!

 

[Gilles]

Congrats on becoming a hosted project. I cannot host, so I won't be playing this until the AI is implemented.

 

[Karawasa]

I noticed your map size is about 3 MB. You need to reduce the size, otherwise this map is simply to cumbersome to be played on BNET. I suggest squishing models, compressing textures, eliminating sounds etc. I assume you use a lot of custom things, so a good target would be 1-1.5 MB.

 

[Zergleb]

Does it need to use the old system of having the unit on the beacon? I mean they did it that way because they had no other choice, why not upgrade it?

*Oh and as i was typing the guy above posted, I would also suggest using vex's map optimizer, and I swear there is some MPQ tool that helps with that kind of thing too.*

 

[Rakdos Defiler]

Love it just need single player, cause w/ dial up i don't do online play. I better be in the game, i love mtg, and if you don't understand then i wanna strangle you lol.

 

[GreyArchon]

I noticed your map size is about 3 MB. You need to reduce the size, otherwise this map is simply to cumbersome to be played on BNET. I suggest squishing models, compressing textures, eliminating sounds etc. I assume you use a lot of custom things, so a good target would be 1-1.5 MB.

I've manually reduced all custom skins to 33% quality, after which I've used Vexorian's Map optimizer to remove another 5% of the mapsize. The map doesnt use any custom sounds, and about a third of the custom models which're used use in-game textures.
Perhaps there's one more method of making it smaller, and that'll involve a bit of tinkering with the loading screen.
I'll have to look into that for the next version.

Does it need to use the old system of having the unit on the beacon? I mean they did it that way because they had no other choice, why not upgrade it?

As it's a remake, I wanted to preserve as much of the old feeling / playstyle of the Starcraft map as possible. It's a conscious choice.

Love it just need single player, cause w/ dial up i don't do online play. I better be in the game, i love mtg, and if you don't understand then i wanna strangle you lol.

Nope, sorry. Didnt have place for Legendary Multicolor creatures, and Rakdos is Black+Red.

 

[Maedh]

Map size is fine, people generally dont get discouraged by the dl time because there are only 4 ppl dling. I can get full house very quickly

 

[Mini-Me]

Congrats on the hosted status.

Aww, I was ready to go back on bnet after a long time to play this map, but 3mb? I've played this map long ago, don't remember if it was that big then, and I liked the map. But as karawasa already pointed out, 3mb is an overkill.

This map could be a huge hit if people could download it in 10 secs or so. I think you really should do your best to get this under 1mb atleast. I know it's very hard for you as the creator to remove any custom stuff, so you could get an unbiased oppinion what stuff can easily be replaced with blizzard models/effects.

 

[t-y-r-o]

unless the dl time for me is over 5-10 minutes... i could care less just gives me time to go take a piss or maybe read a lil.

 

[The_wand_mirror]

They should upgrade b.net to have a better dl.

 

[GreyArchon]

Well I guess I could remove the custom WindSerpent and Gargoyle skins.. But I hardly see how that'd remove any more than 200 kb.

I'm pretty sure I *can* shave off a big chunk of mapsize by taking another route with that custom loadingscreen, so you have that to look forward to.

 

[PurplePoot]

Takes about 45 seconds per player at the moment (for me). Not great, but not awful.

Also, you can make the loadscreen in one 512x512 texture rather than 4 pieces, if you use a custom one.

 

[GreyArchon]

Yes, from my own experience I've not had people leave because download takes "too long". Probably because it's only 5 spots... I can imagine people would leave much sooner if it'd be a 12-player map.

 

[Mini-Me]

Imo custom loading screens are a waste of space. If you don't want to use the 'ugly' blizzard loading screens, then use a completely black loading screen. I would start the cutting down from the loading screen.

 

[Rakdos Defiler]

I KNOW WHAT RAKDOS IS, HOW DARE YOU HAVE TO SAY HE'S BLACK RED, GAH,... ROOOOOOOAR HE IS ' FRECKIN' AWESOME. So thats an idea for later on legendary multicolors ,atm i can't play any custom maps but think cause i don't have update, i need to find it online so it's quicker.

 

[Karawasa]

The 4 piece loadscreen with .tga is the best way to go. If you optimize the files right, it doesn't take up that much more space compared to the 1 piece .blp one. What you need to do is set the .tga files to indexed color mode instead of RGB. Reduces filesize by over 1 MB if you haven't done it.

 

[GreyArchon]

Indexed color mode, you say? Got some specifications on that one? I'm not sure how to do that.

 

[NatDis]

Are you sure the TGA file will be smaller? When I converted a TGA into a BLP, I saw that although the BLP was perfect it's size wasn't more than a third of the TGA.

 

[GreyArchon]

What the map is currently using:
12 imported BLP's: 2 for the left side of the loading screen, and 2 for the right side for each race option (Hu, Orc, NE, UD, Rand).

What the map in the next version will be using:
Custom MDX for loading screen.
4 imported BLPs or TGA's in the custom loading screen.

 

[PurplePoot]

You know, you can instead do one 512x512, which saves even more space.

 

[BloodStorm2262]

The summoning system although "nostalgic" is "worthless" XD, no offense meant but there are much better ways of doing it.

 

[SanKakU]

this is such an awesome map man! only sucky thing is that it crashes wc3 once out of maybe every six games. but it's still worth playing since it's the only map of it's kind...
any chance of sharing some tips with people who want to make their own version of MTG: SC or any chance of recruiting people to help with the map development of alternate/new versions?

and if not lemme say that i forgot where but somewhere you forgot to edit the colors properly i think perhaps it was in player colors. like black was brown or something and you could make him black instead of brown and it would be better...for example use player color is as neutral hostile. he's black. other than that the is pretty sweet but there are definitely some things i would change if it were up to me for example i think the artifacts in general are a bit too powerful and there are kindof too few of them but i guess that's not too big of a deal.

 

[GreyArchon]

this is such an awesome map man! only sucky thing is that it crashes wc3 once out of maybe every six games. but it's still worth playing since it's the only map of it's kind...
any chance of sharing some tips with people who want to make their own version of MTG: SC or any chance of recruiting people to help with the map development of alternate/new versions?

and if not lemme say that i forgot where but somewhere you forgot to edit the colors properly i think perhaps it was in player colors. like black was brown or something and you could make him black instead of brown and it would be better...for example use player color is as neutral hostile. he's black. other than that the is pretty sweet but there are definitely some things i would change if it were up to me for example i think the artifacts in general are a bit too powerful and there are kindof too few of them but i guess that's not too big of a deal.

Thanks, great to see such enthousiasm.

I've hosted dozens upon dozens of games and it never once crashed for me. :<

And sure, if enough people are interested in it, the map could eventually become a public project.

Perhaps, though there're numerous 'neutral passive' creatures on the map as well. Having black take the 'neutral hostile' color would become confusing on the minimap.

Artifacts are fine tbh, it's not hard to focus fire on them. Especially with creatures such as Ballistea, Dustwasps, etc..

 

[Bioautomaton]

I'd like to add a little more feedback based on recent games, specifically on artifacts:

Armageddon Clock is no fun, and excessive in power to cost. In my opinion, the zombies should either spawn slower or be less durable. I don't have any real objection to the damage they deal, but they take forever to kill and if, god forbid, two players get the clock it pretty much shuts down anyone not already beefy. Additionally, it doesn't really take any skill, instantly spawns a strong unit in ALL enemy territories, and divides focus. Compare this against things in the same mana bracket like the Serpent Generator, which does reinforce you, but only in your own territory, or White's Crusade, which has the same drawback and is arguably a little less powerful (which makes sense, because it's not exposed). I never liked the thing in the original SC maps, and my experience with it so far is proving equally negative. The only way you can really keep your mage out of danger with two clocks spawning is to blink up off the ground level, which I know is really more of a glitch. The last game I played where this happened I was actually off to a great start, then fended off an attack by a neighbor, following which two enemies decided to invest in clocks. I never recovered, I only achieved a level of stasis.

Additionally, everyone I've asked agrees it's either irritating, unfair, or no fun, even the people using it will grudgingly admit it. Could we maybe get another artifact to replace it? Something a little more fun? I understand staying true to the source, but still...

Should I have put this in a separate thread? Sorry, if so.

 

[GreyArchon]

I'd like to add a little more feedback based on recent games, specifically on artifacts:

Armageddon Clock is no fun, and excessive in power to cost. In my opinion, the zombies should either spawn slower or be less durable. I don't have any real objection to the damage they deal, but they take forever to kill and if, god forbid, two players get the clock it pretty much shuts down anyone not already beefy. Additionally, it doesn't really take any skill, instantly spawns a strong unit in ALL enemy territories, and divides focus. Compare this against things in the same mana bracket like the Serpent Generator, which does reinforce you, but only in your own territory, or White's Crusade, which has the same drawback and is arguably a little less powerful (which makes sense, because it's not exposed). I never liked the thing in the original SC maps, and my experience with it so far is proving equally negative. The only way you can really keep your mage out of danger with two clocks spawning is to blink up off the ground level, which I know is really more of a glitch. The last game I played where this happened I was actually off to a great start, then fended off an attack by a neighbor, following which two enemies decided to invest in clocks. I never recovered, I only achieved a level of stasis.

Additionally, everyone I've asked agrees it's either irritating, unfair, or no fun, even the people using it will grudgingly admit it. Could we maybe get another artifact to replace it? Something a little more fun? I understand staying true to the source, but still...

Should I have put this in a separate thread? Sorry, if so.

No, this is very good feedback. And I've been hearing the same things. Yeah, perhaps we should get a new, more 'fun' artifact in there. Or maybe a voting option to disable artifacts at the start of the game as a whole.

Suggestions? (both the card and how it'd work in-game)

 

[SanKakU]

actually i found one of the artifacts that green has to be next to impossible to get to for the black player (northernmost i guess you'd say)...furthermore, about adding the color problem...you can make the neutral units be another color. yellow or purple, for example.

also i agree that armageddon clock is a bitch and needs to be looked at seriously for some kind of change or a cut altogether.

well i liked the winter orb a lot, that was one of my favorites, you might try that one.
i guess i'll have to look at my card collection but i gotta say it's kinda lacking for artifacts. i don't have any good ones really. hmm...

what about something like throne of bone? whenever a player plays a black spell...you may pay 1, if you do you gain 1 life. so like...maybe to turn that into MTG SC you could make it so the throne artifact has mana...and it'll have an autocast spell that casts like a dummy inner fire (inner fire that gives inner fire buff for the purpose of triggering but gives no dmg bonus or armor bonus) on unit around it or something like that...or maybe it doesn't need mana and inner fire is free...but anyway the units with the inner fire when they get attacked by one of black's units, will still get hurt, but you will lose mana but your mage will get healed. you could even cast inner fire on your mage and black basically wouldn't be able to hurt it as long as you have the mana. you could think of it as a mana shield.

i think that's a pretty good idea. and there are versions of that with the other colors too. so look there! you got 5 new artifact ideas from me looking at one artifact...i don't remember the other names of the other 4 cards though but if i find them in my stacks here i'll let you know.

yeah i think a free cost dummy inner fire would be perfect. you could either make the spell take mana for hp directly, or perhaps increase the cost of the mana by a factor of ten or a hundred...whatever is well balanced. try 1 to 1 and see how it works out i guess. been a while since i played the map.

but i was thinking about being able to kill artifacts...and i think you might want to give artifacts wc3 mana...for the purpose of disenchanting them mtg style you might say. so let's say an artifact has 1000/10000 mana or whatever. that mana just hangs around, doing nothing...but let's say someone casts a spell that does dmg to artifact's mana, maybe it takes it all away or just part of it...or maybe a unit is like a disenchanting creature. maybe it can mana burn artifacts...so you can take away the mana and if the mana reaches 0 you make trigger that destroys the artifact. that way the artifact is disenchanted. you can of course make it so these disenchanting attacks only work on buildings and not ground units and you won't have mages and spell casters getting mana burned heh heh.

these are all ideas and i'm not expecting you to implement them but i do think that throne of bone idea is pretty good...it's just i think you were only wanting to have 4 diff artifacts...which imo will be too boring but whatever.

 

[Bioautomaton]

Thoughts on artifacts to replace it:

The best idea I've had so far is something like Powder Keg. It'd be a timer-based Wrath of God option. Every income cycle it gains a "counter". The Keg may be sacrificed at any time to kill basic creatures, X cycles in to kill all non-legendary creatures, and Y cycles to kill non-legendary creatures and artifacts. Obviously you'd want this to take several cycles to get to the last two effects.

The reason this is balanced against things like Wrath of God in the same rough mana area is that, first of all, you have to go get it, secondly, it's exposed and has to be guarded and thirdly, it has to charge for a bit to get to its full effect.

Other ideas:

Icy Manipulator: Has a targeted decent-duration stun ability with a reasonable cooldown.
Ivory Tower: Constantly heals your mage at a rapid rate as long as it is in play.

 

[GreyArchon]

I like the Powder Keg option. Infact, such a functionality could also be described to 'armageddon clock', keeping the name of the artifact and giving it a new function.

 

[Kercyn]

Very nice idea, although I haven't tested the map myself. I suggest that you rename the 'wizard' to 'planeswalker', since every MtG player is considered a planeswalker. I hope you have Phage btw )

 

[GreyArchon]

Very nice idea, although I haven't tested the map myself. I suggest that you rename the 'wizard' to 'planeswalker', since every MtG player is considered a planeswalker. I hope you have Phage btw )

In 1.50, Phage has now been added to black's ranks as its' agility hero.

CPU-controlled colors are now considered Planeswalkers and carry their names. For instance, black is called (CPU) Liliana Vess.