Lords of Middle Earth

[GolluM_KoMe]

Lords of Middle Earth Forum

Hey hey ! As you might know, I'm looking for commited guys to continue my project : Lords of Middle Earth (LoME) as I cannot work on it anymore (too much homework oO)
I made this forum to gather all the ideas/advances of the "members" of this project, which can go in different ways with different people .

You can download the map there : http://warlotr.free.fr/.

Needed stuff to work on LoME:
-Time free
-Rather good level with the World Editor
-You must know the map rather well

You can do anything with the map except removing the the credits of those who made custom stuff

Some ideas I could not finish

-A trading system with your ally player, like in Age of Mythology (or Age of Empire) : a trading unit is sent to your ally and it comes back with gold. The more your ally is far, the more you get, exponentially, which might encourage alliances with a far village. It would be automatical, with a boat (which would be easier to be made and more realistic). Theses boats could be attacked and you could not make more than X of 'em. There could be upgrades in the Shipyard to increase the speed and the limit...

-A better terrain

-Mercenaries to buy

-More slaves to buy

-New units for the Inns: saboteurs; invisible Hobbit Spies (which could be made everytime, but with a limit)

-New victory conditions: instead of having to destroy everything to win, the host could set victory conditions.
He would first choose a stuff (like Money in Stock; Bread in Stock; Number of Kills; Number of Colonies.....) and then an integer to reach between 5, according to the stuff chosen before (like for Money in Stock: 15 000; 20 000; 30 000; 50 000; 75 000).
Once done, he could choose an other condition etc etc...
This would be rather long to make, but not that hard, and would be SOOOO great ! With that, the whole gameplay would be redifined and you could not to make any soldier and only focus on your development .
These conditions would then be written in the quest!

-Find a better way to make the unit entrance/leaving in and out of your town.
You could first also make a command like Type "-L" (for Leave) and the units you are curently selecting leave the place properly, like a Packsaddle horse leaving.

-A building that produces Items with :
Common Items (like Iron Sword)
Items according to the current warfare (like Armor of Gondor etc...) PS: Be careful with the warfare change with Elves/Orcs
Powerful Items very expensive, according to the Heroes you have, that cannot be broken, and that can be done only once (like 'Vilya' (the elven ring of Air, if you have Elrond, who actually owns this ring). These items would only be available when the hero reaches level X or after Y minutes...

-Archer tower uprgradable in Elite Archer Tower (in which you can place your Elite archers, with their abilities ....)

-According to the town you chose, in the Library, you can research something which makes you able to use a special ability (in the Library).
This ability would of that kind: Increases the Trade Rate (the price) for a specific good (that you choose in a Dialog Box); Decreases one; Create a little inflation in a specific place (Gondor, Khand or Umbar); Create Revolts which create an attack in a random town..........................

-Events which would occure each X sec. The could be negative, like the collapse of the price of a type of goods in a region, orc raids, bad weather which makes people leave a region, earthquakes, fires.....; positive: inflation, a baby boom .......; But also both: like a famine which would increases the price of Grain, Bread and Sheeps but stop the population growth (or even make it negative)..... You can find a lot of ideas with this

-The diplomatic system has to be rethought!
By example If a player which owns a town (like Amon Eithel) Which originally belongs to a Computer (Red here) breaks an ally treaty with this player (still Red xD), the Computer would declare war to the player to get the town back in its influence .
A lot can be done !

-Add all towns a Faction captures to be bought by its allies.

-Updates according of the chosen town at the beggining.

-Multiboard :
Create 12 icons : 1 red, 1 blue, 1teal, .... 1 brown
Add 2 columns :
-Ally player, in which there is the color of the ally
-Ally faction

 

[Geazergimli2]

Saw the title and already like the idea, hope it turns out well

 

[GolluM_KoMe]

Ye I think if there are some fans of the map, it can turn very well
Thanks btw !

 

[Tha Flamestorm]

Imma take up and attempt to make something new out of your map, thanks gollum! (it will be medieval cos i think that period of time suits this map style waaaaaay much bettererer)
thanks again! i can also learn a few triggers from this and.. make cheats *kekekekekeke*

 

[GolluM_KoMe]

make cheats

Please never makes cheats ... this will ruin your game

 

[Mechanical Man]

btw, why you used Mount&Blade screen if it's Lord of the rings?

 

[matej]

sounds interesting. good luck whit your project, and if you need any help feel free to post me and i will se what i can do.

good luck!

 

[GolluM_KoMe]

btw, why you used Mount&Blade screen if it's Lord of the rings?

Have u ever played the game ? (and M&B ?) The games are very close for a lot of aspects. +the image perfectly fits with the umbarean and gondorian kind of soldiers. +this map is a map of human! (even if I added the fact that u can have orc/elven warriors). + the image rocks + I added some lotr stuff (like the actamirioni seal and the white tree).

if you need any help feel free to post me and i will se what i can do.

Hum, you might have not understood what this is about, now ! YOU have to work on it by yourself ! You open the map and you put ur ideas and credits on it ! You can do whatever u want. I wont ask anyone to do anything.
Btw thx for asking

 

[CyberDuelX16]

Hello GolluM. I am a great fan of your map and i hope that i could be the one to continue it. I've played M&B: Warband, Anno 1404, Commander: Conquest of the America's, The Settlers Series and many other trading games extensively and i am a hardcore fan of the genre. I really see a lot of things in this map that could use polishing and i have much free time. Hoping you respond soon,

CyberDuelX16.

 

[GolluM_KoMe]

Uhu; I was waiting for a post like this since I posted my map on the hive ♥ xD
You're exactly the kind of guy who can continue the map !!
I'll surely make an extra version tommorow (maybe the last ^^) in which I'll add some more conditions of victory the host can pick, so you should wait a little to begin .
Have you made any map before ? If not, I propose we work in collaboration instead you worl alone on this
but anyway you can do anything you want xD

Tell me what you really wanna do with the map and I'll help you as much as I can

 

[CyberDuelX16]

Uhu; I was waiting for a post like this since I posted my map on the hive ♥ xD
You're exactly the kind of guy who can continue the map !!

Awww you're making me blush ;3

I'll surely make an extra version tommorow (maybe the last ^^) in which I'll add some more conditions of victory the host can pick, so you should wait a little to begin .

Of course =)

Have you made any map before ? If not, I propose we work in collaboration instead you worl alone on this
but anyway you can do anything you want xD

Sadly, i have not completed a map, but i am developing one as you can see in my signature. A collaboration would be great! I look forward to working with you =D

Tell me what you really wanna do with the map and I'll help you as much as I can

Well for first i wan't to smooth out the spelling and marketplace.
Aka. Automatical selling = Automatic selling. And sometimes the marketplace swarms with sheep and horses because they can only sell one at a time. After that I'll start thinknig on what to add. Your input will always be appreciated =)

Also, do you have an MSN, Skype, Xfire?

 

[GolluM_KoMe]

My MSN is [email protected]
Btw I wont work in LoME today, I'm too tired, I'm going to bed xD So if you wanna start some stuff ... go ahead !

 

[CyberDuelX16]

I'll wait ^_^. Adding.

 

[GolluM_KoMe]

Btw guy, weren t you on Modern Gamers website (with Midnighters)?

 

[CyberDuelX16]

Yes, i was the largest poster ^_^

 

[GolluM_KoMe]

Agh I Remember u well xD I told u u were crazy xD

 

[CyberDuelX16]

=O. BLASPHEMY! Anyway, if we're going to make casual talk it should probably be in profile messages

 

[Mastapusey]

Lol you dont say

 

[Tleno]

Well currently I'd say the map can be called complete already... though some game tweaking (Making gameplay more offencive and weakening the defencive tactics for late-game), and maybe few minor adjustments... nnot about the trading with ally, I got better suggestion. You can send resources to him. See, when you ally with him, an "Courier", "Ambasador" or whatever else you can call him appears in your town. It's an invulnerable immobile unit that stands next to warehouse. so see, he has few slots and "Transfer" ability, which automatically transports the items in his inventory to your ally's stock.
Of course, this wouldn't propose the allying far towns so much, but it would be much safer to transport the goods and could be kinda profiting if both towns would have different goods harvested... like one could supply another one with metal and weapons, and another could transport horses... oh wait... horses are units... though transfering units could be fun, too...

 

[GolluM_KoMe]

Wow Tleno this is a great idea !! A way greater cooperation!! Btw CyberDuel has the last version of the map (with a lot of char' corrections) and he is like .... dead ? But I think I will work again on it with ur idea .
Thanks dude

 

[Tleno]

Well just poke CyberDuel with a stick and make him give the newest version

 

[GolluM_KoMe]

Well I tried a few times; nevermind I ll work on the late version
Btw for to counter the defensive tactics, you can attack by the sea no ?? xD

 

[Tleno]

Shouldn't ground and sea attack be approximatelly balanced so both would be same way useful?

 

[GolluM_KoMe]

Well maybe ... but how to counter a lot of towers just next to the entrance ?? i would need more space to make a bigger gap between the entrance and the walls, but the towns wouldnt be big enough .
BTW GREAT NEWS !! i found a way to make units go out of town REAAAALLY easily . now you just click on the map and the units go exactly where u pointed, and it works wherevere you are
+ ur idea to transfer resources was rather easy to do (but has to be tested !!)

 

[Tleno]

So what movement system did you implement for town entering/leaving?

 

[GolluM_KoMe]

When a unit in the town receives the order to get out, it's first told to go in the entrance and its target (the point out of the town) is saved and when it gets next to the teleport, it's told to get to this point, and it uses the teleport well

 

[Tleno]

Genious.

 

[Desktop_General]

I don't think the lumberjack stuff you're adding in 2.8 improves your map much, but I think I figured out why it keeps crashing. First of all, I disabled the Regrow Trees Setup and RegrowTrees triggers. The second of those is quite complicated, and the map still crashes without them. I hope that even with those triggers enabled, my solution will work, but I didn't test it.

However, after much trial and error, once I changed

• Destructible - Remove TreeOfArdumir2

to

• Destructible - Kill TreeOfArdumir2

it stopped crashing.

I would rewrite the two lumberjack triggers like this:

Lumberjack11

• Lumberjack11
  • Events
    • Unit - A unit enters BuildingPosition6 <gen>
  • Conditions
    • (Triggering unit) Equal to LumberjackArdumir
  • Actions
    • Wait 1.00 seconds
    • Animation - Reset (Triggering unit)'s animation
    • Set TreeOfArdumir = (Random destructible in ArdumirTrees <gen> matching (((Destructible-type of (Matching destructible)) Equal to Ruins Tree Wall) and (((Matching destructible) is alive) Equal to True)))
    • Unit - Order (Triggering unit) to Attack TreeOfArdumir

and

Lumberjack12

• Lumberjack12
  • Events
    • Destructible - A destructible within ArdumirTrees <gen> dies
  • Conditions
    • (Dying destructible) Equal to TreeOfArdumir
  • Actions
    • Wait 1.35 seconds
    • Set POINT = (Position of (Dying destructible))
    • Destructible - Create a Ruins Tree Wall (Down) at POINT facing (Random real number between 0.00 and 359.00) with scale 1.00 and variation (Random integer number between 0 and 9)
    • Custom script: call RemoveLocation(udg_POINT)
    • Wait 0.01 seconds
    • Set TreeOfArdumir2 = (Random destructible in ArdumirTrees <gen> matching ((Destructible-type of (Matching destructible)) Equal to Ruins Tree Wall (Down)))
    • Wait 0.10 seconds
    • Unit - Order LumberjackArdumir to Attack TreeOfArdumir2
    • Wait 20.00 seconds
    • Destructible - Kill TreeOfArdumir2
    • Set POINT = (Center of BuildingPosition6 <gen>)
    • Unit - Order LumberjackArdumir to Move To POINT
    • Custom script: call RemoveLocation(udg_POINT)
    • Wait 0.01 seconds
    • Animation - Play LumberjackArdumir's Walk Lumber animation

For Lumberjack11 I just added a condition and removed the if-then-else function. For Lumberjack12 I changed the remove destructible to kill destructible as mentioned. Hopefully that helps.

Also, I noticed the lumberjack stopped working after he chopped down a tree that was close to the lumbermill. Probably he was so close that he never left the region, so he didn't enter it on his way back to the lumbermill.

BTW, it takes me a very long time to open, save, and start a game of your map. Is it the same for you?

 

[GolluM_KoMe]

Regrow Trees Setup and RegrowTrees triggers.

It cannot be that, it's since the very first version )

However, after much trial and error, once I changed

ow yer great idea !! The problem with it is that there is a tree animation when it dies (the Down one) and it sucks xD + there remains a stump I think, that will not be removed and there can be an accumulation of those, especially with a lot of players, which, I think, will cause lags.
But maybe it doesnt crash if you remove it after it's dead .... OW !! maybe it crashed only because the lumberjack still attacked it when it was removed !! so he could find his target and BAZINGA ! It crashes ! xD I must try this way !! ooooor ! It might comes from the fact that removing a variable doesnt only removes the tree but also destroys completly the variable itself and when the game has to set it (as a new tree), as it doesnt exist anymore, it crashes It would explain why it crashes only the second time the lumberjack triggers Lumberjack12 (each trigger must be verified (the whole trigger) each time they are triggered and there the game saw the variable was lacking)

For Lumberjack11 I just added a condition and removed the if-then-else function. For Lumberjack12 I changed the remove destructible to kill destructible as mentioned. Hopefully that helps.

Great work I guess !! thanks a lot for ur time I owe u help

Also, I noticed the lumberjack stopped working after he chopped down a tree that was close to the lumbermill. Probably he was so close that he never left the region, so he didn't enter it on his way back to the lumbermill.

Ah ye I know that and it's really easy to fix

BTW, it takes me a very long time to open, save, and start a game of your map. Is it the same for you?

Ooooow yer xD It's so annoying ... and it s getting worse and worse ... have u seen the number of triggers, regions, units .... it's a nightmare to work on this map... At my father's btw I have access to a great computer so it's there I do the laggiest stuff (the new units and unit tips mostly).
Ow btw !! Which animal do u want as a pet on the map ?? U absolutly need to get one !!

It's so hard to talk with u, u're everywhere !! in map forum, on this forum, on walls, with private messages .... xD Thanks again dude

 

[Desktop_General]

It cannot be that, it's since the very first version )

Oh okay. I was just letting you know that I didn't test the solution with those 2 triggers enabled.

I can give some ideas about your other concerns. I haven't tested them.

The problem with it is that there is a tree animation when it dies (the Down one) and it sucks xD + there remains a stump I think, that will not be removed and there can be an accumulation of those, especially with a lot of players, which, I think, will cause lags.

Is the stump the corpse of the destructible then? I think you can affect corpse decay. Maybe you can change the decay of the last created corpse if it was a tree. I saw a thread by someone about tree regrowth. I'm sure that deals with the stump in some way.

But maybe it doesnt crash if you remove it after it's dead .... OW !! maybe it crashed only because the lumberjack still attacked it when it was removed !! so he could find his target and BAZINGA ! It crashes ! xD I must try this way !!

If that's true you could order him to stop or to right click his current position before you remove the tree. I think stop will sometimes occur after the current order, but having him right click his current position definitely interrupts any orders. However, I think when you remove destructibles it causes leaks doesn't it? I am not sure. I know when you kill it, it doesn't.

ooooor ! It might comes from the fact that removing a variable doesnt only removes the tree but also destroys completly the variable itself and when the game has to set it (as a new tree), as it doesnt exist anymore, it crashes

If that's true, you could reset the variable (like to no unit or whatever).

It would explain why it crashes only the second time the lumberjack triggers Lumberjack12 (each trigger must be verified (the whole trigger) each time they are triggered and there the game saw the variable was lacking)

For me it crashed every time Lumberjack12 was run. Visually, it looks like it happens as soon as he heads back to the lumbermill with lumber. It's definitely the remove destructible function that is causing it, so it happens the first time.

Great work I guess !! thanks a lot for ur time I owe u help

No problem.

It's so annoying ... and it s getting worse and worse ... have u seen the number of triggers, regions, units .... it's a nightmare to work on this map...

Yeah. It's crazy. If I work on your map, I keep it open in the world editor until I'm done. Even if I don't work on it for hours. It still takes a long time to save, though. One solution might be to make a version with lots of stuff removed like doodads and other stuff, so you can work on triggers and test them faster.

Ow btw !! Which animal do u want as a pet on the map ?? U absolutly need to get one !!

Oh really? That isn't necessary. I haven't done very much to help you. If you still want to do it, a dog or a rat would be cool.

It's so hard to talk with u, u're everywhere !! in map forum, on this forum, on walls, with private messages .... xD Thanks again dude

I'm sorry. I was happy talking to you in your map thread, but tleno commented on it. So I tried visitor messages, but those are only good for short communications. I used the private message because I was letting you know something I didn't want other people to know. I thought maybe this thread would be good for work on your map. What do you prefer?

 

[Tleno]

general, you actually did enough to be added to credits list. I mean, you have given more feedback than I did during all that time from map release until you came in. so you definetly deserve it... wait did I get a pointless-peasant-who-walks-around-like-critter-with-my-name-on-it myself?
Oh, and I'm sure this thread should work.

 

[GolluM_KoMe]

Oh really? That isn't necessary. I haven't done very much to help you. If you still want to do it, a dog or a rat would be cool.

Compared to those who have pets ... xD Plus you might be the person that know the map the best with me and Tleno perhaps

I'm sorry. I was happy talking to you in your map thread, but tleno commented on it. So I tried visitor messages, but those are only good for short communications. I used the private message because I was letting you know something I didn't want other people to know. I thought maybe this thread would be good for work on your map. What do you prefer?

Well anything I don't care it was to joke . btw posting on this makes this forum in first position, while having a lot of comments on the map is good too ... xD
Btw the solution was to remove the tree by telling the game to remove a random tree of this kind (Down) instead of removing the destructable variable.
Btw what do u think about town animations ?? I'd like to add a lot of them, with some decorations that spawns when the town get bigger (especially near the townhall where nothing can be built). With citizen/dogs hanging around to make the game more alive. Maybe some dummy traders that link your town to your allies' ones.
I also wanted to add a new way for factions to attack players : a siege ! (outside the city) with more forces, but they wouldn t be annoying in your town. The only problem would be the invulnerable Trebuchet you can make at the top of your town xD
Well I still have too many ideas xD But I should first fix the annoying stuff before doing these ...

wait did I get a pointless-peasant-who-walks-around-like-critter-with-my-name-on-it myself

Hum ye ... maybe xD I must add you too sry Tleno ... But I think u're already in the credits btw

 

[Desktop_General]

Btw the solution was to remove the tree by telling the game to remove a random tree of this kind (Down) instead of removing the destructable variable.

That's very good to know! I bet that causes crashes in other maps sometimes. Hopefully I'll be able to avoid this mistake now.

Btw what do u think about town animations ?? I'd like to add a lot of them, with some decorations that spawns when the town get bigger (especially near the townhall where nothing can be built). With citizen/dogs hanging around to make the game more alive.

You've given us a great map. Whatever you do at this point is icing on the cake (something good on top of something that is already good). Time is precious. You should spend it how you want.

In my opinion, it depends on how you implement the animations. If they really make the town feel more real, then I guess they might be worth it. If they add to the game play in some way, that might be even better (although that might complicate an already complicated map).

I thought of having some in my map. For example, on your estate, you can build hovels and farmhouses for other farmers, and I was thinking of having those farmers work for you as a form of automation. They would harvest crops and take care of weeds and other pests.

I think you could have done something similar for your lumberjack. Since there is already a lumber collection system in Warcraft III, it may have been less work to revert your lumber mill system to that, and just have it be automated. That would have taken care of the animation for you. I guess that wouldn't handle the quarries, though. BTW, you should change the attack type of your dummy lumberjack to metal chop.

I also wanted to add a new way for factions to attack players : a siege ! (outside the city) with more forces, but they wouldn t be annoying in your town. The only problem would be the invulnerable Trebuchet you can make at the top of your town xD

Your defenses inside town wouldn't be able to help you. It might make it difficult for players to leave their town, although they might be able to leave by ship unless you blockaded their harbor. That might further discourage conflict between the players. However, you could always make peace with the factions and just war with the players.

Well I still have too many ideas xD But I should first fix the annoying stuff before doing these ...

That would be nice. I think the two most useful things would be to:

1) Simplify the game, or make it easier to learn. More ideas:

a) Hero selection: Removing the runes might help, but there's nothing that tells you to move your wisp over a rune to choose a hero. It's even more confusing because you have power circles in the area too, and those are traditionally used to choose heroes. Please give instructions at the beginning. If someone moves over a power circle, you could further instruct them to move their wisp over a rune to choose a hero. For the towns that have two entrances/exits, please add that information to the town info.

b) Jobs & housing: As players create jobs, or periodically, instruct players to what housing they need. Maybe let them know what benefits there are if they build it, or as they build something that's needed, let them know what benefit they will gain. For example, "Your middle class inhabitants will increase by 6 (+36 income, +6 population)". Actually, change the tooltip for the town upgrade button to refer to inhabitants instead of population, then you could remove references to population. You could refer them to the leaderboard. Allow them to stop these messages if they want, and let them know how to do so.

c) Town level: I like tleno's idea of letting players know what they need need to do to upgrade their town to the next level. That would be a nice periodic message. Speaking of which, please change the tooltips for building requirements so that they refer to "town level" instead of just "level". Players sometimes think they have to level their hero before they can build new buildings.

2) Fix bugs.

 

[GolluM_KoMe]

icing on the cake

I love this expression xD In france we say "The cherry on the cake" ^^

weeds

U can harvest Weed ?? xDD

BTW, you should change the attack type of your dummy lumberjack to metal chop.

Ah ye I'll try !

However, you could always make peace with the factions and just war with the players.

Ah ! I wanted to remake the diplomatic system. To ask for peace, you would need to give them money, not just wait 10 min xD. Plus if u anally a faction, it'd have a chance to declare war ON u ^^

Removing the runes might help, but there's nothing that tells you to move your wisp over a rune to choose a hero

Ow !! I just did that 10 min later ^^ (+I removed the circles of power)

For the towns that have two entrances/exits, please add that information to the town info.

There is a hint for this (you know, those random that appear each 3 min)

Actually, change the tooltip for the town upgrade button to refer to inhabitants instead of population

Good point ! Btw for jobs/accomodation stuff, I'll add a message each time you need to build extra houses

Town level: I like tleno's idea of letting players know what they need need to do to upgrade their town to the next level. That would be a nice periodic message. Speaking of which, please change the tooltips for building requirements so that they refer to "town level" instead of just "level". Players sometimes think they have to level their hero before they can build new buildings.

Clever ! I'll make it in 2.9! (or 3.0 if you wanna make 2.9

2) Fix bugs.

Done

 

[Tleno]

Erm, there are seaweed too, Gollum
Well es, I'd say there should be some kind of advisor system added, which would inform you that you are required to build some specific structures, ally faction (when you can) and such. It should notify that hero is unselectable when you come to one of them, too.

 

[GolluM_KoMe]

Erm, there are seaweed too, Gollum

I'll add weed plantation in LoME, but Gondor mustn t see you or sends soldiers to burn it out xD
There would be a black market where you could sell it. If a hero uses it it increases his mana while decreases his life. You can also get coca plantations but you must have factory which turns it in cocaine. Yer !!! xD I could make possible for 1 player (if there is at least 3 players on the map) to be the chief of a kind of mafia. he also get a town, but cannot get population (or in a different way). he could make only specific units and can produce stuff (on the map area) that only him can produce!! Would be fun xDDD he would have like a Pirate Nest you see ?
What do u think about it ?? (I mean really, not joking for the end!!)

ell es, I'd say there should be some kind of advisor system added, which would inform you that you are required to build some specific structures, ally faction (when you can) and such

Yep! my next mission!

It should notify that hero is unselectable when you come to one of them, too.

Now the runes disapear, it's much more understandable

 

[Tleno]

I'll add weed plantation in LoME, but Gondor mustn t see you or sends soldiers to burn it out xD
There would be a black market where you could sell it. If a hero uses it it increases his mana while decreases his life. You can also get coca plantations but you must have factory which turns it in cocaine. Yer !!! xD I could make possible for 1 player (if there is at least 3 players on the map) to be the chief of a kind of mafia. he also get a town, but cannot get population (or in a different way). he could make only specific units and can produce stuff (on the map area) that only him can produce!! Would be fun xDDD he would have like a Pirate Nest you see ?
What do u think about it ?? (I mean really, not joking for the end!!)
Yep! my next mission!
Now the runes disapear, it's much more understandable

Hmmm, that's definetly not Lord of the Ringish, I'd say... I mean, you don't want to make Tolkeyn roll in his grave, don't you?
Though idea of some crime cartel with players belonging on one side and having a cammon enemy (The law), but still competiting with each other for higher ranks, would be intresting. You should probably leave these concepts for some other, LOTR unrelated project... if you're going to make one, of course.

Excelent.

Yes, okay... that will work I suppose.

 

[GolluM_KoMe]

No, but with

can produce stuff that only him can produce!!

I didn't mean drugs, I meant manufactured items such as Ropes to board ships (to plunder/capture them), Traps (to block a Packsaddle horse that was passing by), and other things that bandits/pirates need. Maybe also stuff with precious stone.
So you would have an Island which has a zoom (exactly like the other town). In this you could produce wood, Iron, Precious Stone and one other new stuff (no cattle/plantations as it's little an Island xD).
You have the same system of Level but the limitation wouldnt be the population but the something else I've got to figure out xD.
You cannot seize towns to faction but you can make 2 colonies (1since level 3, a second since level 4) at 5/6 spots that are defined on the map and where you can produce a new kind of stuff.
You can build the same basic buildings (manufactures, towers, barracks...) but the advanced buildings would be different (they would be those who produce ropes etc )
You would have the best choices of ships. There would be a new system for ships : They all have mana which defines the number of soldier they contain. Each time a ship is attacked, it looses a smal amount of mana (as some men can be touched too . Some specific boats would have a better "mana burn" (if you see what I mean ^^) (like a boat full of archers). When you Board a ship, there is random losses in each boat and the looser is the one that have no mana. When a ship boards an other, they both become invulnerable. If the pirate wins, he gets Gold if the ship belonged to a faction, and get the ship. Otherwise the pirate ship is just destroyed. If, by an other manner, a ship looses its seamen, you just have to send a rope.
Thus there would be patrols of boats over the sea by the factions.
You would have new kind of soldiers that have skill like plundering etc...
Ah ye ! When you would normally get a town (a town over the map, like Gobel Ancalimon), you don't capture it but you get a huge amount of gold (but you must wait a long time before it becomes lucrative to plunder it once again).
You are always at war against the factions (which regularly send u boats/troops) in your pirate nest + your colonies.
You couldnt ally a player but can declare war on them and plunder their miserable town!!
This way there would be more fight between players.
Well while I typed it, I thought about your nest; you would in fact maybe get population but much less.
You would begin with less resources than the others and your victory conditions would be different. Hum it must be rethought but it could be soooo fun xD.
ooooor ! An alternative map in which there are only 6 normal players (and only 6 towns, I could remove Methir and Endil) and 2 outsiders: 1 Pirate and 1 Bandit, or 2 Pirates, or 2 pirates in the same town, in cooperation xD
Tell me what u think about it !!


EDIT: ah btw where do u want ur Tleno on LoME ??

 

[Tleno]

Well bandtis are suiting the Lotr, so yes, this could work... but not pirates.
You know, I am now going to give a pretty simple suggestion:
When you reach final level, you can choose Outlaw instead of elves or orcs.
So you get some outlaw units, such as pillagers, bandits and such. You get some of structures replaced and you become more of pillaging/warfare faction snd production becomes less effective.

 

[GolluM_KoMe]

but not pirates.

LoTR ?? Not suitable for pirates ??? Why is that ?? + it's way better than "bandit" ^^ + you have an Island, an Isla Tortuga, it owns !! Or if you want we call them "Corsairs".

When you reach final level, you can choose Outlaw instead of elves or orcs.

Hum why not! But the problem is that I wanted the CorsarianPiratyBandit to get a new place with really new buildings and a new system of population/income. The player would loose everything and would have to start again from scratch (or almost). + I wanted him to get 3 new heroes, real corsairs with skills that really makes you pull one's hair out xD.
I really wanna make this pirate nest (btw there is already one if played the map lately ^^). Ye or maybe you could loose ur heroes, and get a part the money you used in your late Town... Why not after level 4 !! But sooner than with the 40 renown stuff. Maybe the first one that click on it and pay 4000 gold.

Edit :

EDIT: ah btw where do u want ur Tleno on LoME ??

 

[PastTime]

As far as I know and I suppose that LoME is lore friendly to LotR. The pirates of Umbar were pretty common in Middle Earth (especially as mercenaries during wars). But yeah they were more like an army of bandits though.

 

[GolluM_KoMe]

The pirates of Umbar were pretty common in Middle Earth (especially as mercenaries during wars).

Thank you !! btw they were not really Umbarean, they just mostly come from souther territories. But u're right, umbar usually use em as mercenaries !!

But yeah they were more like an army of bandits though.

Yep ! That's why they wouldnt b able to seize towns if I add them on LoME

 

[Tleno]

I want myself somewhere more far away from other "pets" as you call them. You know, so there wouldn't be much of them cluttered in single place.
erm dude, as Desktop general already said once, population system is too hard, adding a one custom one for specific players would make it harder.
And yes Corsairs sound better.

 

[GolluM_KoMe]

as Desktop general already said once, population system is too hard, adding a one custom one for specific players would make it harder.

In fact it would be easier than the normal one: you'd just have 2 kind of pop (no $$$). + less jobs with your buildings. This means you cannot stay in your protected nest to earn money: you have to do your corsair's job, u get it ??

 

[Tleno]

Yes, I see the point, but why not allow any player do this? I mean, raiding cities and pillaging them. Not just two of players, but all could choose a life of crime.

 

[PastTime]

Yeah tleno's point is right. It would improve the gameplay feeling really much, the freedom is the thing that most people will seek in this map.

 

[GolluM_KoMe]

Not just two of players, but all could choose a life of crime.

Hum ye why not; but this option (of plundering a seized region) is for example available in Napoleon Total War: if you do so, you keep the region but the population is angry + the region loose a large amount of its wealth. I NEVER chose it ....
I think if I'd like to add the option of plundering a region, when someone destroys a city, a dialog box would appear with : "Capture the Region" and "Plunder the Region"
with capture, everything is the same, but if you plunder it, according to the population of the town, you earn an amount of money BUT
-the population is decreased
-you cannot use the ressource stuff for X sec (like an Iron Mine)
-some nooby soldiers attack you (just to simulate a little revolt
-maybe also the Town building is paused for Y sec (you cannot use it to defend the town).
Then the population would grow (inversely proportional to the population). This would be a lot of work, but needed, as in contrary the town could be plundered again and again with giving a lot of money.
OR you would just cannot be able to use the buildings (of the region) for X sec + a little rebellion.

An an other hand, the corsair player could only plunder the town, would get extra money + the town is not usable by anyone (not even its owner, which keeps it). The pirate player could not plunder it for about 25 min but anyone can attack it but can only capture it. This way, you kinda can agree on an agreement with the corsair player : you help him to plunder the town, but in this way, he also helps you to seize the town, right after it's plundered as no defences remain! would be fun xD

I have a lot of ideas with the corsair, as in fact, I first wanted the player to be able to follow 1 of 3 the three next ways: Bandit, Warrior or "Mayor". that's why at the beggining there are different runes in front of the heroes, but there's no bandits as it was too complicated at first.

Btw i need a huge advice:
I really wanna make that corsair lair but the map is not big enough... + I kinda think the village of Endil is really annoying as far from every thing (The one in North West); but I made a lot of work on it. This room would be used to create the corsair nest of course.
BUT this brings new problem : as it's a 8 players map, there NEEDS to be 8 villages at the beggining so someone could take the corsaire nest at the very beggining and I'm not sure it's a good idea...

The best solution would be to find an other room on the map to create the den... for example but erasing some places that are kinda useless ... but its very hard to make a choice;
HELP MEEEEE !!

the freedom is the thing that most people will seek in this map.

Exaclty

 

[Desktop_General]

I don't know much about Similarion, and probably most people don't, so I think that gives you a lot of leeway in creating content for your map. If it had Similarion in the title, that would be a different story. However, the truer you are to Tolkien lore the better. Anyway, since you already have pirates and corsairs in the game, I don't see a problem with your new idea.

I do have a suggestion, though. I think that tleno is right. Why not let all players choose pirate (or whatever) as a path. That would feel more natural instead of just adding pirates to your map as an afterthought. It seems like an ambitious idea already, but maybe you could take things a step further, and have this be just one of several new options players have to play the game. You could add each option 1 at a time, starting with pirates. This would solve your problem regarding beginning player towns. You wouldn't need to change those at all, because any of the players could "go pirate". This idea would be similar to STARS where you can choose from among several different styles (one of which also happens to be pirates). You might want to check out the map Bloody Pirates (an excellent map which might give you some ideas).

An alternative would be an idea that was tossed around in the Founders of the North forums: allowing players to choose different styles of play as mentioned which would affect the units they can build etc. However, perhaps you could allow players to pick and choose from amongst all the styles (maybe at each new level). For example, at level 1 a player chooses something from among the different styles. At level 2 the player chooses from among the different styles again with totally different choices. The choices could be anything such as different units, skills, bonuses (whatever you want the differences to be).

Anyway, it's an interesting idea. I'm sure whatever you do will be pretty fun. If you don't like how it turns out, you can always change it, but taking some time to think things through beforehand might save you a lot of work. Playing the map more might help you decide too. I think it's already great. I haven't played the new version yet, though. BTW you might want to take a discussion like this to the map thread so your fans have a chance to give input.

 

[Tleno]

I got a different suggestion. See, when you choose to pick side after final tier (Elves, orcs, ordinary or corsair), so if you pick corsair, you may get some special units and you get 25% less income from selling items in faction cities or your own markets. But, when you destroy an enemy owner structure, you get some amount of gold. Prrtty high one, actually.

 

[GolluM_KoMe]

I don't know much about Similarion

Nothing is being told in the silmarillion about 1600-1700 T.A btw . The background of my map is mainly taken from Lindefirion website.

Well, I thought about the Corsair/Bandit idea the whole day and there is what I think is the best, the funniest to play, but also the easiest to make:

-Everyone take heroes at the beggining as usual : 1 change : there are no colored runes anymore. (no distinction between Warrior or Mayor hero anymore)
-Level 1 is EXACTLY the same.
-When you reach level 2 you have 3 pathes :

1. Mayor
   • Bonus of Gold and Wood
   • More income from the taxes (like +35%)
   • New skills/Updates good with town development
   • Greater defence buildings (not sure about this one)
   • Reduction of the price to buy a city from Gondor/Umbar
2. Warrior
   • Bonus of Weapons and Horses
   • Some Soldiers + a better basic income of weapons (those who come automaticaly)
   • More kind of soldiers
   • Option of plundering a town :get gold (less that a corsair), capture the town, building unusable for X seconds. A town with unusable buildings cannot be plundered
   • Greater siege weapons
3. Bandit
   • Bonus of Gold and Weapon
   • Some Ships
   • A whole new gameplay
   • Have to choose between 'Corsairs' and ' Goblins' (not sure for the gobs but it would be fun to have orcish units sooner)

The warrior/mayor still choose between Khand/Gondor/Umbar warfares; almost nothing change for them .

Well now, the Bandit (Let's say that for now, there are no Goblins, only corsairs)

Buildings:

• The buildings for the resources remain the same.
• You keep the old manufactures (like Bakery) but you also get new ones that don't work everytime like the others. They're here to make specific items/stuff that need resources in your stock. (like a Brewery
• You don't have anymore : Library//Town Square//Manors//Mason's Guild (an alternative building with other improvement available; still building regen; no engineers anymore)//Prefecture//Elite Barrack//Statues//Mage academies//Markets
• New buildings : New Workshops I still have to find (by thinking about the options the bandit has)//New structures they can build on the map area (still have to think about it too)//A Black Market//Some other vicious stuff
• The town hall would be reviewed entirely (the model/the skills) unless if I cannot find good models for them.
• The model of the houses will also be changed (maybe night elven ones, dunno yet

Warfare

• Totally new warfare with new towers/barracks etc...
• Bad siege weapons/heavy units
• Great ships/sneaky units
• New Inn system with more units

Gameplay

• The corsair earns a bit less taxes than the others.
• The corsair buildings provide 2 times less jobs and no $$$ jobs (no $$$ inhabitants either)
• Many options (I have to think alot about this point) to get money on other players (like traps for packsaddle horses etc) but also on Factions that will now have trading units and ships that can be attacked.
• The possibility to set up 1 or 2 colonies (according to the number of Corsair players) on the map, at specific spots, with maybe new kind of resources, where you can make defences, hire basic soldiers AND send to your town (instantly) your booty. There are 2 of these spots on Islands btw
• You can of course player cities: you still destroy them and make the player loose
• Attacks on Faction Cities :
  • You plunder the town but don't control it
  • You leave behind you a kind of mafia which will grow in time 'til a point, according the the population of the city.
  • You have an invincible unit which shows toward the other players you do control the black business of this town. This unit (maybe a building) also allows you to create new units, according to the region of the town (some new but mostly already existing units). The mana of this unit shows the amount of gold this town makes you earn each 3min (counted in the tax)
  • When a city is plundered, its building don't work for 10/15 min. A plundered cannot be attack by corsair player for 30 min. A town "controlled" by a bandit cannot be attack by him.
  • A town seized/plundered by a player removes the mafia and replace it if the attacker was a bandit UNLESS the town buildings still don't work. I still don't know what to do if it's a faction.
• The corsair player has a kind of renown; When he reaches a certain amount of this (based on the number of town you have a mafia in and some gold you can send) you can become a Corsair King: you get a third hero from a new list of 8 corsair heroes. (btw at level 3 you still get a second hero according to your town).
• For the victory conditions: the same about the gold and resources; nomber of colonies+1 (town with mafia); 2 times less with the population;
• The Corsairs are always at war with the factions and cannot ally a player (but still can declare war ofc ^^).
• You sell your goods in your Black Market you get when you become Corsair. You sell it at the average price in Middle Earth (of the specific sold resource). Then the price of this resource is decreased two times more in the faction it's the more expensive. By exemple you sell 3 grain and the price of it in Gondor is 30, in Umbar 27 and Khand 31, you will sell it 29*3 Gold and the price of grain in Khand will be reduced by 6% instead of 3%.

Please tell me what you think about it before I start working on this xD. Thanks for reading the whole scary stuff
Btw I don't think goblin option is a good idea.