levelling speed.

[Jumbo]

Hey developers! I always thought that levelling in the mod was too fast. Its like one can be "high lvl" in 2 hours, thereby skipping all of the enjoyment of doing D1 and D2 at an appropriate level instead of 5-10 levels above. Also, because it goes so fast, some people are really quite bad at cooperating since they hadnt got the time to learn teamwork much before they are at a level where that is required. Finally, this would make high or even midlevels not something that everyone necessarily had. With time most people would, yes, but still new people are coming, and the old people want to make new chars.

Basicly, my idea is putting more focus on the enjoyment of levelling up your char, feeling progression, instead of the current rush to D3 (or next patch D4).

 

[Femoika]

I really agree with this idea, but a change on the experience bar really must come with a new codewipe, the basic thing about ppl that enjoy this game is that it is hard therefore it needs both teamwork and time to play. Changes that go through these perspectives will always make me feel rewarded for playing it longer, and inviting more ppl to join, aswell.

 

[S0ulseeker]

I like this idea a lot too. You can never just run parties in d1 or d2 anymore at your level range, always being significantly higher than it and if it would require a code wipe what better timing to do it than the day after 1.1i came out which already came with a code wipe. I doubt anyone has like elite gear or anything yet.

That being said though I believe zwielb mentioned that in a potential 1.3 version he might add a 'heroic' type mode to older dungeons (e.g. d1/d2) that tailors them for level 50's, thus allowing max level players run any dungeon they want while presenting a challenge still and ultimately adding a lot of replay value.

Not to mention look at Guild Wars for example, if you were to run the campaign you usually reach max level about 1/3rd of the way through the game. It's not so much the fact of leveling at a certain point in guild wars as it is to acquire skill. That game doesn't even start in my opinion until you reach max level. Mobs are always typically higher than max level and requires parties and team work to even kill mobs let alone dungeons once you progress that far in the game. The 'noob' zones are no longer present where soloing was an option. If anything I think something like that should be implemented in future high end zones (particularly I suppose any new zones if any are added after level 50 is acquirable) where they are significantly harder and are more like BETA Gaias was where they were pretty much on par with dungeons.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

I was never really a fan of pointless grinding. Yes, people have the opportunity to reach level 25 in no-time, but then they are basicly just leveled and nothing else. You skip on a lot of money, items and of course drop-only spells. And when you go D1 or D2 in that overleveled state ... you can just hunt items as you gain no more xp from all those trashmobs. Basicly, if you run D1 or D2 at the level they are made for, you get the most use out of your time you invest into running them. Also, you get the most fun out of it.
You can, however, grind up to level 25 without going into a dungeon even once. This is intended.

Gaias will in the end not rely on leveling in order to achieve replay value. This is one of the reasons why in 1.2 you will be able to reach level 50 with trashmob killing. Most of the upcoming content in 1.2, including D4 and almost all new outdoor bosses will be level 50 content.

Gaias is not an asia grinder and will never be. I played Ragnarok Online back in the days where MMORPG was a term nobody knew. And it was disgusting to kill mobs for HOURS and watching the XP bar go up by like 1% or something. And then you died because of lag and lose that 1% experience again ...

Maybe I will add some kind of "rebirth" mode for Gaias in 1.2 where - when you have reached level 50 and completed a long quest, you can start the character again at level 1, this time with a much steeper XP curve, but also with the reward of some additional stats and maybe some bonus spells/features.

 

[Jumbo]

For some reason, i never liked the idea of replaying a dungeon with higher leveled mobs. I mean, it just doesn't seem natural to me. Some regular bandits shouldnt be as strong as a firelord, just as a fisherman giant living in a cave shouldnt be as strong as a lieutenaunt destroying the capitol with his minions.
But for the rest of what you said, i totally agree. Also Guild Wars was brilliant.

Personally i kinda like the linear idea of going through D1, D2, D3, reach the lvl cap, then D4 and anything added after D4 should be max lvl stuff.
When levelling is not a factor anymore, dungeons should still get harder, so two lvl 50 dungeons wouldnt be equally hard. This is what i really enjoy of highlvl MMoRPG playing like in Wow or Guild Wars. It is where you really get to see who is skilled and who is just average, cause everyone is at the same max lvl, but not everyone is good enough, skill-wise, to do the hardest dungeons. Another plus about this, is the fact that it would surely increase the amount of clans for this mod, since good, reliable players are a requirement for success.


EDIT: This was written before i was able to see Zweis post above
EDIT2: Ohh please dont add a rebirth mode Zwei

 

[S0ulseeker]

I agree with Jumbo about the rebirth idea. I also played RO and personally I liked it a lot and rebirthing was awesome in that game, but I don't think it fits properly in a game like Gaias. I think the additional work it would take to implement a rebirth system is not worth the reward and I like most other players I'm sure would just rather see new content or more spells in which we could swap out at our leisure to allow more customization of our heroes and individuality.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

For some reason, i never liked the idea of replaying a dungeon with higher leveled mobs. I mean, it just doesn't seem natural to me. Some regular bandits shouldnt be as strong as a firelord, just as a fisherman giant living in a cave shouldnt be as strong as a lieutenaunt destroying the capitol with his minions.
But for the rest of what you said, i totally agree. Also Guild Wars was brilliant.

I totally agree with you, but you need to see it from a developer's perspective. I put a lot of work into D1, D2 and D3 and hate the idea that once players reach a certain level, all the work we put into terraining, designing and stuff is totally pointless anymore, as nobody wants to go inside those dungeons a second time.

Lore-wise, level 50 bandits wouldn't make sense. But from a gameplay perspective, this is a step we have to consider in order to increase replay value. And for maps in warcraft III, replay value is the most important thing.

 

[Risk.frishers]

You could always to the cheap way and change the firelords lore as a demigod summoned in a weaker shape or something. But, yea, I don't think they'll return to bandits all off a sudden, doesn't seem to be Zwiebel style.

 

[Femoika]

I really like this reseting for replay value, as I already mentioned, every single change that rewards powerplayers are welcome by me since I like to put a lot of effort on my chars.

 

[Shanchi]

I was thinking something like a Dungeon Challanger, where's random creeps respawn, not actually respawn while you walking.. but respawn whenever the dungeon reset and they're extreme difficult [Around lv30-50, and require team to go on with itand some nice reward await them. I've played WoW before... didn't really like the ideas how they have this Ultimate godly dragon dealing a huge aoes damage and killed off the whole team of 4-5 [But...surely they did balance it]. To the main points of this Dungeon Challanger, whenever the player reach the max level, what they can do is explore this area dungeon* Solo it or without team, ofc.. they need to select the difficult, some much like.. Easy/Normal/Hard/Extreme/Challange.

 

[Hawajska]

I was thinking something like a Dungeon Challanger, where's random creeps respawn, not actually respawn while you walking.. but respawn whenever the dungeon reset and they're extreme difficult [Around lv30-50, and require team to go on with itand some nice reward await them. I've played WoW before... didn't really like the ideas how they have this Ultimate godly dragon dealing a huge aoes damage and killed off the whole team of 4-5 [But...surely they did balance it]. To the main points of this Dungeon Challanger, whenever the player reach the max level, what they can do is explore this area dungeon* Solo it or without team, ofc.. they need to select the difficult, some much like.. Easy/Normal/Hard/Extreme/Challange.

I already told about it to Teh.Fellow

Dungeon difficoult level would make these dungeons still living and attractive even at 50's.

 

[Jumbo]

I totally agree with you, but you need to see it from a developer's perspective. I put a lot of work into D1, D2 and D3 and hate the idea that once players reach a certain level, all the work we put into terraining, designing and stuff is totally pointless anymore, as nobody wants to go inside those dungeons a second time.

Lore-wise, level 50 bandits wouldn't make sense. But from a gameplay perspective, this is a step we have to consider in order to increase replay value. And for maps in warcraft III, replay value is the most important thing.

To make it true-to-lore, you could use the existing dungeons for high level quests.
An example could be something like this: The player speaks to a captain in Mytargas, he tells the player about a traitor who planned to overthrow the current "people in charge" before he was discovered. He has fled, apparently hiding somewhere close to Riversdale. The quest is to talk to riversdale townsfolk. The Player, talking to the townsfolk, then learns that the guy and his most trusted allies were seen heading for the bandit caves (Dungeon 1).

At the railroad part of D1, the place near where the final boss is currently at, there is a pretty large area to the left not used by any mobs or anything. In this area, a neutral bandit npc will be standing. If the player, being at least lvl 35, talks to the bandit, he gives a little speech about how stupid it was of the player to come - that sort of bad-guy thing. After the speech, two other bandits are summoned (they had been hiding), one a healer, one a damage dealer (the last one would then be a tank), and they are all bosses. A tough fight will start, and, after the bandits are dead, the player goes back to Mytargas to claim the reward.
The bandits should of course drop bossworthy stuff for high levels since they are pretty tough to kill. But since they are not part of a full high level dungeon (high leveled players can just rush through the dungeon to sergeant and then kill the remaining 3 mob groups before going for the 3 bandit bosses) the gear they drop shouldnt be the ultimatively best, only second best.

Finally, to make the quest fit into the gameplay of farming for items, people who have already completed the quest can still trigger the dialog and start the fight again. People who are lower than lvl 35, and who have not completed the quest first (unless they are at the stage where you are send to kill them), they cannot trigger the fight and the bandit will just tell the player to "piss off kid" while being invulnerable.

EDIT: I also have an idea for other quests like this, but i dont want to write a wall of text unless you ask me to

 

[Femoika]

Very nice idea jumbo! Greatest thing about it is that it isactually doable and dont require terraining. Hoping to see something like that soon!