Legion TD Mega 3.5 (B4) + 3.41 unprotect

[Eldarium]

Best TD ever! Thanks for making!

 

[HuanAk]

Idk why i never noticed it before but when the units change from buildings into normal units they become owned by a different players am i right? by the team computer player yes? But they retain their old player color.. lol

Its worse than i thought to begin with. You will never get rid of the massive lag delay unless you use more players im afraid.. :/

My advice to you would be 1 of 2 options or you can even do both for even better results.

Keep the units owned by the main player instead of changing ownership by adding a ward classification to the fighting units, that way they still cant be controlled by the player.
and/or
You should make the enemies that fight be 1 player and the units you change the player owned units to a different player (both on the same team)

Those are your 2 options and im 100% sure of the mass lag/delay problem now.

Wait... what make you think changing ownership cause mass lag ?

havn't seen any thread talk about this situation yet, and I never change ownership, more detail below:

- Player 9,10,11,12 = east king, west king, east creep, west creep
- Tower & Fighter are two difference object
- after wave start, Tower become invisible, then create a new Fighter for every Tower (with difference owner).
- all west fighters belong to west king (with same color as player's color)
- all east fighters belong to east king (with same color as player's color)
- after wave finish, remove all fighter, and Tower become visible again.

 

[toasted]

I think it is not the changing of ownership but the fact that one computer player controls too much units.

 

[Bond009]

yes i already know that all.

i dont mean changing ownership causes the lag affect. i mean the fact that all those units owned by 1 player does.

I don't really say things unless i'm sure i am right. And trust me when i say i am sure about this.

When you have the (east kings units not only defending the east king 'retaining player colors' but also as the enemies on the west king side) and also this same affect with the reverse it creates a kind of delay in the gaming engine you cant avoid.
The WC3 gaming engine wasn't built to handle this kind of mass use and you have to learn to spread the load out.

This has nothing to do with a persons computer power or the internet delay.

The only way to fix this for everyone is to do what i said

 

[HuanAk]

When you have the (east kings units not only defending the east king 'retaining player colors' but also as the enemies on the west king side) and also this same affect with the reverse it creates a kind of delay in the gaming engine you cant avoid.
The WC3 gaming engine wasn't built to handle this kind of mass use and you have to learn to spread the load out.

I get your point now.

There are already 4 players slot to handle this (east king and west creep are two difference slot)

you have 4 players on each side. thats 8 then you have 2 comps 1 on each side thats 10
that leaves you 2 more players to take advantage of

split those waves of units into 2 different sections.
What i mean is for the units that come to red and blue have those be 1 player, like LB for example and have teal and purple's enemies be player dg or brown, one of the unused players you have.
This way it breaks the unit movement up between 4 players instead of 2 total. 2 players per team vs having just 1 enemy player per team.

That alone will greatly improve game play and delay/lag appearance.

I will try work out how to reduce "unit" per "player".

I think amount of creep is fine for "player", because they are simple unit without ability.

maybe those fighter need split, because they use lots of ability/trigger to manage their move/fight.

 

[nafre]

I though I already answer :

1, before wave start, create a trigger for spell attack

set udg_Trig = CreateTrigger()

2, select all unit_a, add them to trigger

//can't use unit is attacked, because it will trigger when creep attacking you
call TriggerRegisterUnitEvent(udg_Trig, GetEnumUnit(), EVENT_UNIT_ACQUIRED_TARGET)

3, select all unit_b, add them to trigger...
repeat for 100 difference unit type with spell

and inside that trigger:
- need to identify unit type for 100 difference unit
- then write code for every unit
- end up with 1 massive trigger with lots of if...else...if....else etc

// lots of if...else...if....else etc inside spell_action
call TriggerAddAction(udg_Trig, function Spell_Action )

so is this what you mean ?

remember EVENT_UNIT_ACQUIRED_TARGET is bad, because it will cast spell from acquired range instead of attacking range.

plus Spell_Action is a massive function, base on my reading, a trigger that run frequency with HUGE function = massive lag.

You lost me at this part because im still learning jass but nevermind i already understand you. And after thinking about it for a while i think bond's method might work.

 

[Bond009]

nafre lol dont worry bro this issue has nothing to do with coding for the most part..

HuanAk, i'm glad you get my point now once you make those fixes and changes the game will run 200% better
That will also help bot processes stay low when this game is hosted by bots.

Need any other advice or help let me know man

 

[HuanAk]

nafre lol dont worry bro this issue has nothing to do with coding for the most part..

HuanAk, i'm glad you get my point now once you make those fixes and changes the game will run 200% better
That will also help bot processes stay low when this game is hosted by bots.

Need any other advice or help let me know man

Bond009, look like warcraft only support up to 12 players.

In legion TD:
1-8 = real player
9-12 = west fighters, east fighters, west creep, east creep.

so this already in best solution ?

 

[Bond009]

yea wc has 16 players but the main 12 will act differently with computer controlled creeps so you probably wanna just stick to the main 12.

1-8 = real player
9-12 = west fighters, east fighters, west creep, east creep.

the thing you could try is if you could get player 13 and 15 to spread it out more, but if they dont act right then you could change it to the players owning their own units but just having 0 control over them.
This would be ideal becuz then you have it spread out over 8 players owning their own fighting units and 4 players for the enemy waves.
(Players would still have 0 control over their own fighting units of course)
Thats the biggest problem with this game is it wastes all those player slots with having no units doing any actions.. and taking it all down to 4 players (that's a very very bad thing to do)

but that way you could not have to take up any players with the defending creeps. and you could have all 4 comp players free to be the enemy creeps

Also i just got thinking of some new amazing modes you would be able add if you changed it to my new system
If you are willing to go through this extra work to make the game much better and run way more smooth, let me know.

 

[MastaKilla]

totally like where this is going. nice to see some other coders here

btw. huan, any progress on future versions, your "burning legion" plans... or you just remodelling the code atm?

 

[m05he_d4j4n]

i speak for the masses, we want panda race! pandas are awesome, everyone loves them, they look cute but also cool and there are lots of nice panda models here on hive, with new code it could be possible. think about it, everyone in the world will stop play skyrim sc2 and shit just so see pandas. pandas ftw

 

[toasted]

Additional models consume very much space which would make the map significantly bigger.

With the 4 Panda Models some units should be possible but a race basing on pandas only looks boring, imo.
Every race has some visual diversity but those pandas look all the same.

 

[m05he_d4j4n]

what does this biger map exactly cause? longer downloadtime, more lag?
if you take 2 or 3 standart and the other models form hive, the fact that theyre new and very well done and different looking would make panda race exciting

lightning race would be also very cool, with hawks, griffon, lightning elementals, pikachu n stuff, but i think some new models are needed here too

 

[HuanAk]

totally like where this is going. nice to see some other coders here

btw. huan, any progress on future versions, your "burning legion" plans... or you just remodelling the code atm?

spent time with some of new ideas. sometime it doesn't work and have to rollback to restart another difference ideas etc.

progress is pretty slow atm since I only spent 0-3 hours per night on this.

 

[Bond009]

Dont bother doing what i said before, i didnt fully realize it was already done how i was thinking it should be done and that isnt enough clearly. Taking (8x2=16 players worth of units) down to 4 players still isnt working good enough so everyone needs to have their own stuff. This way all 8 will have their own fighting units and the enemy waves can now have 4 players to divvy it up instead of just 2. This will make everything run much much better.
When you get time to take on such a big task PM me, i can send you the system i made in a demo map or something and it will solve all these problems. It will even reduce unit delay and lag and lower game susceptibility to desyncs.

players owning their own units but just having 0 control over them.
This would be ideal becuz then you have it spread out over 8 players owning their own fighting units and 4 players for the enemy waves.
(Players would still have 0 control over their own fighting units of course)
Thats the biggest problem with this game is it wastes all those player slots with having no units doing any actions.. and taking it all down to 4 players (that's a very very bad thing to do)

but that way you could not have to take up any players with the defending creeps. and you could have all 4 comp players free to be the enemy creeps

Also i just got thinking of some new amazing modes you would be able add if you changed it to my new system
If you are willing to go through this extra work to make the game much better and run way more smooth, let me know.

this is the new good part^
ignore the first part in my older post

 

[Ekopyen]

Can you add a new mod? Let me try to explain, ermm... A mod that we can pick fighters ourself. From any builder. Kind of prophet, but not random as it be. Conciously picking, so we can generate combos the way we like from different builders. I think it'll be very fun. Can you add this kinda mod? For rerolling... When reroll this builder that we generated, there is no need to picking fighters again(it'd have been troublesome), but you can keep it like it's prophet, or just give 2 optional randomly builders. Please, think about it.

 

[Bond009]

neat idea but seems like it would make things too easy, could make builds too OP/imba that would make the game too easy.

But on the other hand if HuanAk gave it some controls like only being able to pick a build type from each tier level then it could maybe be ok. like choose 1 from the weak class and 2 from mid class 1 from strong class etc

neat idea for custom builds though like how my game is

 

[MastaKilla]

hey huan,

we just got stuck in first arena, coz last units alive were a maccabeus and a komodo. komodo phased out and maccabeus ran to the top. when komodo came back, he also ran away... but to bottom. both units wouldnt move anymore, game wouldn't continue check the replay

 

[HuanAk]

hey huan,

we just got stuck in first arena, coz last units alive were a maccabeus and a komodo. komodo phased out and maccabeus ran to the top. when komodo came back, he also ran away... but to bottom. both units wouldnt move anymore, game wouldn't continue check the replay

i know how to fix this now

Will change their move point to middle of arena pit, instead of opposite camp.

 

[HuanAk]

Can you add a new mod? Let me try to explain, ermm... A mod that we can pick fighters ourself. From any builder. Kind of prophet, but not random as it be. Conciously picking, so we can generate combos the way we like from different builders. I think it'll be very fun. Can you add this kinda mod? For rerolling... When reroll this builder that we generated, there is no need to picking fighters again(it'd have been troublesome), but you can keep it like it's prophet, or just give 2 optional randomly builders. Please, think about it.

I saw someone made same mode in X1 version.

It end up same towers combo for every one in every game.

 

[CafeSaiGon]

When you update new version ??

 

[MastaKilla]

Hey huan,

lately I got some more freetime and I once more came across the "poison wont kill" issue. You said, there might be a problem in detecting the correct kills, if poison spells would kill a unit, e.g. harpy or wind rider... but they'd stop at 1hp, which really annoys me.

Young Frost Dragon's aura is still able to kill though with its spell and it doesn't look like any kills are missing. Is there any difference in how Young Frost Dragon's spell and Harpy/Wind Rider poisons work? Maybe apply the one's behaviour to the other?

Is there any other plausible reason why poison may or may not kill a unit?

Thx.

 

[MastaKilla]

Ok, i want to take it back I just had 3 or 4 units killed with young frost dragon (after frost dragon died), but didnt get the bounty for it...

 

[iamthekira]

so, when should we expect a new version?

 

[HuanAk]

Ok, i want to take it back I just had 3 or 4 units killed with young frost dragon (after frost dragon died), but didnt get the bounty for it...

I think both poison and frost bounty will fixed.

poison can kill in next version. and I will change corpse's decay to make sure it will stay longer than poison/frost duration so it will give bounty

 

[Bond009]

ok, i cant take it anymore.. my old favorite race is complete trash now.. in the older version before you started this mega version it was an ok race not complete crap and not op just a fair race that was a challenge and fun to play but now it cant measure up to any other race at all.. its lost its balance completely somehow.

The race that became crap is Ghost race, the power behind this race is its ranged units in the back but the main prob now is something after lvl15 the melee units it has for its front line went to hell. They are in no way efficient to handle a front line to attack or protect the back line units from being mowed down.

2 things need to be done, buff the armor and hp on the defense mode of those soul of hero units and then buff attack a bit on the attack stance.
Or you could make a 3rd lvl to these units which would probably be better option and just make them an actually good late game melee unit for this race.

As of now to survive with this race you are 100% forced to changed races. I dont call that balance ;p

 

[HuanAk]

ok, i cant take it anymore.. my old favorite race is complete trash now.. in the older version before you started this mega version it was an ok race not complete crap and not op just a fair race that was a challenge and fun to play but now it cant measure up to any other race at all.. its lost its balance completely somehow.

The race that became crap is Ghost race, the power behind this race is its ranged units in the back but the main prob now is something after lvl15 the melee units it has for its front line went to hell. They are in no way efficient to handle a front line to attack or protect the back line units from being mowed down.

2 things need to be done, buff the armor and hp on the defense mode of those soul of hero units and then buff attack a bit on the attack stance.
Or you could make a 3rd lvl to these units which would probably be better option and just make them an actually good late game melee unit for this race.

As of now to survive with this race you are 100% forced to changed races. I dont call that balance ;p

all race with heavy armor is weaker after magic level become hard level (eg level 16, 24 etc)

Ghost is challenge race for those who bored.

 

[pyr0maniac]

Hello Huan,

I registered here today to tell you how great I think this map is! However, I would like to suggest a few improvements/alterations

1. Saving of lumber needs to be limited
When hosting 3.41, every game I have played has ended on level 17 because of the enemy team saving all their lumber to send demons etc. on 17. I have in-fact gone back to hosting 3.4 because I simply cannot enjoy the game anymore. You might say I'm crap if I can't beat level 17 anyway, however, I (and everyone on my server) only play -HP prophet so its pretty much entirely on luck if I get the right units to beat it.

Also, on the same point, it's become common practice to save all your lumber from lvl 1-10 so you can spam militia on level 10. Sometimes this is highly effective, sometimes not, however, I believe it is against the spirit of the game, people just do it for quick and easy wins and that annoys me to a great extent.

So to summarize, can you add a mode which prevents people saving up lumber? Perhaps have a cap which increases each level, e.g. 120 lumber on level 1, 130 on level 2, 140 on lvl 3, etc. with the aim being people spending their lumber at the end of each round instead of saving for 10 rounds.

2. Add a third level of unit upgrades to more lower tier units
I know some units have a third level upgrade, I would like to see this more on tier 2/3/4 units to make them more useful, as some tier 2/3 units are incredibly useless.

 

[HuanAk]

Hello Huan,

I registered here today to tell you how great I think this map is! However, I would like to suggest a few improvements/alterations

1. Saving of lumber needs to be limited
When hosting 3.41, every game I have played has ended on level 17 because of the enemy team saving all their lumber to send demons etc. on 17. I have in-fact gone back to hosting 3.4 because I simply cannot enjoy the game anymore. You might say I'm crap if I can't beat level 17 anyway, however, I (and everyone on my server) only play -HP prophet so its pretty much entirely on luck if I get the right units to beat it.


Also, on the same point, it's become common practice to save all your lumber from lvl 1-10 so you can spam militia on level 10. Sometimes this is highly effective, sometimes not, however, I believe it is against the spirit of the game, people just do it for quick and easy wins and that annoys me to a great extent.

So to summarize, can you add a mode which prevents people saving up lumber? Perhaps have a cap which increases each level, e.g. 120 lumber on level 1, 130 on level 2, 140 on lvl 3, etc. with the aim being people spending their lumber at the end of each round instead of saving for 10 rounds.

This save lumber thing is not easy to fix.

I was though about re-make barrack system, so after you buy any summon, all summon will reset to 0 stock and start cool down again. so you can't just save lumber and click-click-click-click to spent all lumber on level 17.

I still not sure how to implement this idea, someone talk about it before on this thread, and it is not my top to-do-list yet.

2. Add a third level of unit upgrades to more lower tier units
I know some units have a third level upgrade, I would like to see this more on tier 2/3/4 units to make them more useful, as some tier 2/3 units are incredibly useless.

"more useful" is relative word : "best unit" > "more useful unit" > "ok unit" > "useless unit"

if A is more useful than B, then you complaint about B.
now B become more useful than A ... you will complaint about A again.

 

[pyr0maniac]

This save lumber thing is not easy to fix.

I was though about re-make barrack system, so after you buy any summon, all summon will reset to 0 stock and start cool down again. so you can't just save lumber and click-click-click-click to spent all lumber on level 17.

I still not sure how to implement this idea, someone talk about it before on this thread, and it is not my top to-do-list yet.

Thanks Huan, it's really driving me crazy,these idiots saving lumber to spam millitia on level 10. Normally I can anticipate it and react but it doesn't always work-out, especially when they coordinate their saving. And on the server I play on, you're almost definitely going to get a Demon on lvl 17.

"more useful" is relative word : "best unit" > "more useful unit" > "ok unit" > "useless unit"

if A is more useful than B, then you complaint about B.
now B become more useful than A ... you will complaint about A again.

I know what you're saying but I didn't mean it like that. It's not about comparing, my point is to have a reason to build low-tier units. Take ghouls as an example, if I get them in my prophet roll I ignore them because they simply become useless after about level 10 where they just die in a few seconds

 

[Bond009]

all race with heavy armor is weaker after magic level become hard level (eg level 16, 24 etc)

Ghost is challenge race for those who bored.

its cool to have a challenge race and all but it seems to get to a point where its just completely insufficient.
Ok i have a simpler idea for you, make the hp on the attack stance a tiny bit higher, like maybe +25hp.. and +50 more hp tops on the defense stance position. But along with that small change, make the defense units armor heavy.
Thats all needed to fix the problem on those levels that just rape through the race (which also have like 300+ value over whats needed btw)

 

[MastaKilla]

Hi,

I think both poison and frost bounty will fixed.

poison can kill in next version. and I will change corpse's decay to make sure it will stay longer than poison/frost duration so it will give bounty

Great, nice to hear

Hello Huan,
1. Saving of lumber needs to be limited

Well, buying certain (mass) units might be restricted, but limiting saving lumber and removing anything above a certain "allowed" amount of lumber is not an option in my opinion, especially in terms of lag/delay issues. You can't like permanently remove (especially in later rounds) 1000 lumber or so (which is easy to get with 7/12 or so..) just because the game is lagging/delaying. That aint fair. There is a ns (no save) command in 1.60b, but it's x1 map, no x3 and it won't like ever have lag/delay issues.

You also said yourself "sometimes mass militia is bad, sometimes it's not". It sounds like a coinflip to me, thus making mass militia no problem at all.

This brings me to another point... Same "coinflip" assumption applies to first arena in my opinion, if teams are uneven. Sometimes the team with a player less wins, sometimes the full 4 player team wins. You can't say "make it stronger or weaker" as the odds are quite even imo. This doesn't apply to second arena though, in 9 of 10 cases the full team wins over the team with one or two player less. Maccabeus are like no help in 2nd arena, always getting bashed with like 30+ units remaining from the other team's army.

Back to saving lumber... In my opinion, the lumber saving ain't that much of a problem at all. People waste a shitload of money by not spending their lumber, which is their own loss. And second of all, most of the time people also push income to the max and have like <4000 value in 17. Thats just fail. There were already some discussions on how 3.41 is harder than previous versions, but thats a difficulty/player issue, most certainly NOT a lumber saving issue.

I do a lot of public games with random players on my bots (Clan UC) and I really don't feel like saving lumber is an issue. Sure, sometimes lumber saving ended a game, but noobs did likewise, or people getting disconnected or just ragequitting idiots who make the game uneven, thus more income comes to less players (4v3 or even 4v2 income is heavy...) or whatever other reason you can think of.

And also, reducing the income/buy frequency, well this would suck. When a round is almost over, lets say you sent a Blood Orc, but have some lumber left, while someone is finishing round. I just keep pressing the Q, W or E button on barracks to spend any lumber I have before cash comes in. I wouldn't consider this being spam, just maximizing income.

its cool to have a challenge race and all but it seems to get to a point where its just completely insufficient.
Ok i have a simpler idea for you, make the hp on the attack stance a tiny bit higher, like maybe +25hp.. and +50 more hp tops on the defense stance position. But along with that small change, make the defense units armor heavy.
Thats all needed to fix the problem on those levels that just rape through the race (which also have like 300+ value over whats needed btw)

Hm, you really should consider you're talking about Tier2 units here. Tier 2 are supposed to be supportive, but don't base the game (especially when it comes to x3) on it. Soul of Villain is good support for boss/later rounds to reduce armor, and Soul of Hero is supporting on early rounds. To hold later rounds (15+), you got Outcast.. which was buffed quite good imo, at least the upgraded one (just cant think of the name..). It has like +10 armor, heavy armor (instead of former light armor) and no HP loss due to buff. Holds quite nice. Still I totally agree, Ghost aint easy to succeed with. But in my opinion Ghost always was the weakest race (ever since 1.x), not only since Legion Mega 3.x.
Despite that, I'd totally go for a second upgrade for Tier 1 units in general. In an x3 only map, most tier 1 units really are useless.


btw. Huan, I almost hosted 100,000 games (and about 60.000 were hosted with 3.41

mysql> select count(*) from games;
+----------+
| count(*) |
+----------+
| 98447 |
+----------+

and the W3MMD data is like flooding my database and log files, haha The database is already about 500 MB (majority goes to w3mmd stats), but I still don't really use it haha Well, just gathering information for now. Once we finished our (for now discontinued) analysis project, we will have some nice stats

So far..

 

[Bond009]

yea i see your point masta and i agree, and he could just have a 3rd tier upgrade for that knight for x3 round because that is also true that changes balance quite abit from normal 1x.. but seeing as x3 is the standard default these days.. he might as well just start balancing things around that mode more so now. And yea i was in no way blaming HuanAk for that race being overly weak, i know how long its been weak for ;p

Also thats cool you are one of the bot owners? which bot is yours? i also run a few bots for my games, you use ghost++ or ghostOne?

 

[HuanAk]

what do you guy think about global cool down on summon ?

eg:
buy a summon --> all summon stock set to 0 --> cool down start for all summon

and difference summon have diffence cooldown (eg, 5 second for milita, 30 second krakken, 120 second demon)

so if you buy a Demon, all others summon set to 0. and they can't buy Krakken immediate, they have to wait 30 seconds for Krakken or 5 seconds for Milita etc.

 

[m05he_d4j4n]

makes game boring for good players cause high inc even more useless

 

[pietricas]

Not everytime.

People choose to 'take out' thery adversaries at specific level, the same level's always.
*
If they ( the players and their gameplay ) are based more on value and ending the game before it end us ( lvl 31+, lets say ), they are forced to change their build thenique to one that permits them to gather large amounts of wood for those specific levels.
*
But if they are based on value and taking the game to it's ends, then you will almost never get more than 1-4 kraken's ( one for each player, in case they are good or pro/pro+ ) [pro+='feed time'] in later levels, because they can't conserver lumber, they need high income, in order to have overvalue to rezist at least 4-5-6 rounds of 31.
*
The specific level are:
*
7 = 3 furbolgs +/- comander, for a small/big leak, depending on enemy's force.
10 = spam militia or furbold + comander.
13 = spam aura's, every type of permited aura/special ( limited by lvl 15 type unti's ).
16 = because it's ranged, not all aura's work, so carry + comander is required to do a good job, and by carry I mean the lvl 15 unit's from baracks.
17 = just aura are needed, LS/CMD/Armor/Regen.
20 = spam militia + or shaman's, all other type's of units are not that good compared to these one,
21 = same as 13.
24 = aura's and ranged units, almost the same as 16.
28 = same, but it's best to study you oponent's build to choose melee units too ( to make the round more effective base on its siege/fortyfied ).
*
~29( if you can beat 28, they surely you can beat 29, so i won't put 29 on this list, it depends on the type based build, as i said )
*
If you choose to set a couldown timer, set it randomly or at specific level's.
*
The random can be on round XX or on baracks's 1/2 or even on type of unit's, as in militia/demon.
*
The CD can be for all players or just for one, as you choose huan.
*
I strongly recomend a new mode for this type, if you put this couldown fixed on the next versions, 'incomers' will stay with 3.41 or worse with 3.4.0, just because it's their style.
*
LI mode stand's for Limit income by seting specific value for making wisp's or upgrade to lumber.
*
As i said in a new mode, aditional to LI, should be CD ( couldown timer ON/OFF ), ON if it is typed or in integrated in the 'shot mode' as in now for -AR for example, and OFF if a players type's the complete mode with the aditional letter 'CD".
*
I'll give an example ( don't mind the order of modes ):
-=> -apmmhggglicbcd / -armmhggglicbcd.
-=> -ap / -ar with or without li/cd modes included as you choose.
*
This way, people can choose as now incomers choose the long mode without the -li or directly choose -ap, for making high income or gathering large amounts of lumber.
*
I am saying this because if you set it as you mentioned early, then the game is going in another direction, and becomes more and more booring.
*
Lots of players are good, and start saving lumber/making income in early game, it's just because it's their style of playing the game, everybody has a style, im I right or im I right?!
*
I hope I haven't made to many mistakes ( grammaticaly or 'gamely' ).
*
By putting an aditional mode, all people can and will play this version of legion, so that they can see lvl 31+ and tier 7 or upg 3 for lower tier's.
*
But if they get bored because of income/lumber then they change mode ( as in create without li/cd ), and not switching to 3.41 or 3.4.0.
*
This is a good way to have more people playing the latest map, and even discovering bugs.
*
OFF: Yesterday i had an whelp at lvl one, and i had the young frost dragon from Artic race. My dragon killed all other units with it's frost breath ( 90-95% of creeps died at the first breath ), but when it camed to kill the dragon, it had missed ( without a 'Miss!' messaged showing above the dragon ) about 20 or 30 time's, from 1.300 hp it went to 300 or 400 hp, just because the dragon 'missed' 20/30 consecutive time's. In the end, it killed him, but I had over 125 lumber, so about 30 seconds plus? ( 2 lumber every 10 seconds for wisp, berly at the end of the round people have 120 lumber, I had 125/127 with 1 wisp.
*
That's all folks, this is my post =)), a bit long, but I hope it was/it is very usefull, have a good day reading it ) >.

 

[von_Oberstain]

what do you guy think about global cool down on summon ?

eg:
buy a summon --> all summon stock set to 0 --> cool down start for all summon

and difference summon have diffence cooldown (eg, 5 second for milita, 30 second krakken, 120 second demon)

so if you buy a Demon, all others summon set to 0. and they can't buy Krakken immediate, they have to wait 30 seconds for Krakken or 5 seconds for Milita etc.

hi huan!

please don't do this...

sending mass summons on specific levels is something like legion trademark, which (examples are from 1.6b) enables various sending strategies, like (all team is accounted):

- 3 ghouls + 2 militia on lvl1 - enables one enemy getting 2 ghouls (~45 value) or ghoul + militia (~33 value), which effectively breaks weak or risky builds (like 50g + worker, often some stronger ones too)

- 12 militia on lvl2 (or more, depending on wisp train time) - militia keeps together with wave (unlike ghoul) and usually cause quite a disturbance

- 4 warriors on lvl2 (perhaps with militias, depending on wisp training time) - against low unit count, and fully worth potential -30g income gamewise if succeeds

- weirder summons, if someone went risky wisp or full income at start - leads to either warriors + ghouls + militia on lvl1 or whelp/dino + something at lvl2

i wrote down these (irrelevant) 1.6b send tactics for sole reason to illustrate how right summons can be combined to make opposing teams life miserable, aside from small increase in income.

yes, some levels are harder than other, and people save *some* lumber (usually -ns cap), but this CAN be detected by looking at previously sending summons (one will notice if there is few ghouls while level before there were dinos), and generally preparing is possible for these hard levels.

rather than "babysit" bad players by changing game mechanics, increase listed value needed for harder levels where strong/numerous summons can be expected, it will make people prepare better for those (also a warning message before can help)

MASS SMALL UNITS: we had this problem on Pro/Revo, especially on lvl20 boss (lvl10 never was, basically 20 militias won't do a thing to a boss-killing ability)

anyhow, we increased respawn of 'small units' (under 60g) from 10s to 20s, which nerfed this tactic enough to be still viable, but not overpowered.

(oh and 5 sec for militia will make lvl20 militia-spawning ground, i predict lot of abuse)

on other levels - well i EXPECT to get at least one of panda/blood orc/furbolg (or pudge - horror!) at lvl13, etc... and get ready for it. a message could warn players about that (maybe at lvl12? to look more carefully what is summoned and prepare?)

furthermore, global cooldown may nerf players with good income even more (don't know exactly about MEGA, but in Pro/Revo 2000+ lumber/level can be reached by good players) by inability to send all lumber as summons

sorry for a lengthy post (probably used to it by now )

oh, one more thing - why would any X3 need 3 times starting lumber? just to be able to send dino/whelp? (not a critique, i ignored it also for a great while, and thought of it only recently - Revo gets 300/30 and 20 food to compensate possible need for early farm) - kinda forces people to build at least 1-2 wisps during the game, which is a good thing, cause pure-build-no-wisp gameplay always fail lategame, -gg or not, these players bring no army to arena and basically are burden to others

 

[Bond009]

the ghost race flying unit's tool tip is wrong, it says it will go from 500 to 600 range but doesnt. you need to fix those units so their range becomes 600 like it says when upgraded.
make note of that for your change log

 

[HuanAk]

the ghost race flying unit's tool tip is wrong, it says it will go from 500 to 600 range but doesnt. you need to fix those units so their range becomes 600 like it says when upgraded.
make note of that for your change log

I reduce range in last version.

so their aura cover more creep.

will fix tool tip

 

[toasted]

How about increasing aura AoE slightly?

 

[pietricas]

A perfect combo?

Today I played a game with a friend and 4 other people.
*
The map war 9.99(B01), the map at witch you are given 3000 gold on lvl 1.
*
The same principle should be applied on 3.41 version because the engine works almost the same, right?
*
That's ok, even the bug at the end for team 2, lvl 31-31+, where you are given another 15.000 gold, in order to make full pop and over 30.000 value, if posibile with different combos ( else 25-28.000 value ).
*
My problem, lets call it that, is/was that the team 1, who didn't get that bonus gold ( 15.000 ) at lvl 30, won by a large margin, they lost ... lets say about 25 to 30 percent, at wave 6 or 7 ( meaning 36 or 37 ), at witch point my team lost every tower, we had all aura and all type of armor, a ballanced build, with tanking towers in front, carry in the middle, and suport/auras at the back and some 'here and there', 200 POP FULL.
*
His ( one of the team 1 member ) combo was like this:
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About 70-80 PoP made of Hades ( tier 6, up - Shadow ), about 30-40 PoP made of Priest ( tier 4, up - Paladin ), and the rest some auras and etc...
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And by auras i mean the strong build for this type of tower, manaregen+lifesteal.
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The Hades-and it's summon, where summoning the zerlings so fast, that you couldn't even have time to count to 10? ( maybe even less ... )
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At the arena ( lvl 20 ), they resummoned the zerling another 6 times ( 7 times total ), they won the arena by losing about 10-15 towers, they started with about 90, and ended with about 75-80, and with zerlings about 150-170 units total.
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Same at the king, at lvl 31+, continous summoning of zerlings.
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I strongly recomend to reduce the Hades ( or even lord t6 - no upg ) mana pool from 60-100 ( or what ever it is ), to 5-10, like priest and the other towers that you modified for 3.41 version, witch is very resonable for the rest of the units ( excluding the Hades+Messiah combo ) or restrict summoning times ( count-number ) for zerlings.
*
Or, set up that the zerling couldown is 60 seconds, with or without the aura - manaregen.
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Yes, it's true, you have a big, very big change of not getting Hades+Messiah or even one of them, ( i played dozens of games with no messiah 1/20, and hades i got all the time 7/10 ).
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But still, if at least one player gets Hades and another gets Messiah, it's the same, lvl 31+ is taking part at the kings side, so ... same thing, more or less.
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This is my opinion, I would like to get the same build, it's imba, and everybody likes to be imba from time to time ( leaks, more gold, bugs, cheats, MuHaHa, right? ) .... right? ( again ).
*
Btw, when are you releasing the 3.42 ( official version, not the renamed 3.41 ), it's bee three months since you announced it's 'comming', any progress, do you need help? ( testing and other small/easy stuff )

 

[toasted]

Anything known about current progress?

 

[pietricas]

Yes, please.

It's been quite a long time since the last post, not mine, and about the development of the new version.
*
We need you Huan ! ( gamming way, not any other way )

 

[puffdragon]

The race that became crap is Ghost race,

As of now to survive with this race you are 100% forced to changed races. I dont call that balance ;p

I agree, its very true.

all race with heavy armor is weaker after magic level become hard level (eg level 16, 24 etc)

Ghost is challenge race for those who bored.

Sorry Huan but intentionally keeping a race weaker is not the way to solve ppl issues with boredom. If you can make WAY COMPLEX to achieve maximum effectiveness(weird unit combos and positioning) to solve boredom issues but keeping it weaker is not teh way.

Hello Huan,

I registered here today to tell you how great I think this map is! However, I would like to suggest a few improvements/alterations

1. Saving of lumber needs to be limited
When hosting 3.41, every game I have played has ended on level 17 because of the enemy team saving all their lumber to send demons etc. on 17. I have in-fact gone back to hosting 3.4 because I simply cannot enjoy the game anymore. You might say I'm crap if I can't beat level 17 anyway, however, I (and everyone on my server) only play -HP prophet so its pretty much entirely on luck if I get the right units to beat it.

Dudes like him ruinned a lot of things i liked about legion. NO YOU DUDE YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG AND THE PPL YOU PLAY WITH ARE BAD. Where i play ppl can actually NOT leak vs multiple demons and pudges at 17.

Also, on the same point, it's become common practice to save all your lumber from lvl 1-10 so you can spam militia on level 10. Sometimes this is highly effective, sometimes not, however, I believe it is against the spirit of the game, people just do it for quick and easy wins and that annoys me to a great extent.

Again, since i anticipate ITS REALLY EASY TO COUNTER IT. WHY DON'T YOU?

So to summarize, can you add a mode which prevents people saving up lumber? Perhaps have a cap which increases each level, e.g. 120 lumber on level 1, 130 on level 2, 140 on lvl 3, etc. with the aim being people spending their lumber at the end of each round instead of saving for 10 rounds.

2. Add a third level of unit upgrades to more lower tier units
I know some units have a third level upgrade, I would like to see this more on tier 2/3/4 units to make them more useful, as some tier 2/3 units are incredibly useless.

I disagree with all this CRAP.


Huan, I really didn't like you complete removed the incomer option and you replaced him with merc option. People now at first even minor leak they quit, simply cause they can't go incomer so try and contribute SOMETHING later ingame. Pretty sure some whiners told is "uncounterable" or stuff like that, but when a strategy is strong you DO NOT REMOVE IT, you nerf it. Thats the concept behind multiple viable strategies and thats how ppl get interested more in a game.

 

[Averlance]

I just had a long and hard discussion about the Healing Aura of Orc's Doctors. The description of the aura says: "Doesn't stack".
In my opinion this counts only for the same type of aura, doesn't it? So "healing aura" doesnt stack with "healing aura" and "greater healing aura" doesnt stack with "greater healing aura". But if you have "healing aura" and "greater healing aura" this works together for 15hp/s. Am i wrong with that?

The one i had the discussion with told me its absolutely not stacking. He said "greater healing aura" + "healing aura" doesnt work and it gives 10hp/s and not 15hp/s.

I appreciate that you can see this aura in the "aurabar" of every single creep. As you can see the lifesteal auras, command aura, ranged aura and so on. So everyone can check himself if its stacking or not. In my opinion this isnt that much work and could stop useless discussions.

Furthermore i suggest to jump the version number since i saw a faked 3.46 already

 

[toasted]

You don't see it because it's based on Healing Aura of Fountains and you don't receive a buff icon from it.
Instead you can base it on Unholy Aura.

 

[HuanAk]

How about increasing aura AoE slightly?

Their area effect is 700 range, with 500 attack range. (was 600 attack range)

mean AE can only cover 200 range on melee.

if creep attack from 300 range, then Aura only cover few creep .

 

[HuanAk]

I did a quick and dirty test, so this is my suggestion:
Advanced Barracks in object editor without units. At Map Init, add a copy of every unit which should be in, but that unit with stock maximum 0 set in object editor.
call AddUnitToStock(barracks,'unit id of copy',0,0)

Then at the desired level, you remove the units you wanna get available
call RemoveUnitFromStock( the copy etc etc) and add the original unit (with correct stock maximum)
call AddUnitToStock(barracks,'unit id of original',0,3)

Its important that the barracks got the "sell units" ability. And yes, every step is needed, because you cant remove units from stock which arent placed via triggers.
Sound complicated but is very easy and done in no time

Thank, Advance Barrack done

except you can only add 11 unit with code, so I have to manually add "Demon" from editor.

 

[HuanAk]

First beta should release this week

Here is changes log from http://legiontd.in-goo.com/

Descriptiom bugs:
* Fixed DragonHawk's range description (300)
* Fixed Greymore's damage description (142-168)
* Fixed Machine Robot's damage description (62-68)
* Fixed Soul of Villain's hp description (530hp)
* Fixed Mercurial's range description ( 650 )
* Fixed Gravekeeper's range description (500)
* Fixed Meridian's hp description (1000)
* Fixed Tempest's Range description (300)
* Fixed Defiler's damage type (Chaos)
* Fixed Fangthtooth's damage type description (Normal)
* Fixed Sky Dragon's damage description (magic/piercing)
* Fixed Mitorsis description, should be magic

Other Bugs/changes
* Arena -- Removed bug music
* Arena -- melee will teleport to front, range behind
* Mercenary -- can summon after level 30
* "li" mode -- lower value requirement for 2nd upgrade (1300 to 1200).
* Advance Barrack -- won't reset your hotkey
* Vote Kick -- Only host can start -vk or -votekick command
* Enable poison kill, bounty bug fixed
* King can move after level 31
* Cooldown on Behemouth/Krakken/Infernal/Demon change from 25/30/60/120 -> 40/60/90/135

Unit changes:
* Clockwreck -- AE is working now.
* Sky Dragon -- increase damage on air (90-100)
* Fire Archer(undead) -- increase HP from 100 to 250.
* Young Frost Dragon -- can attack air now
* Violat -- cost reduce from 150 -> 120
* Meat Wagon -- HP increase from 265->280
* War Machine -- HP increase from 600->750
* Guardian of Death -- Life steal aura will include this unit
* Spawn of Dragon -- Life steal aura will include this unit
* Wolvorine -- finishing blow do not work on Boss unit.


Creep Level:
* Level 3 : hp lower (55->45), damage lower by 1
* Level 17: hp lower (699->650), damage lower by 3
* Level 31 = Pit Lord ( ~15,000 value)
* Level 32 = Crypt Lord ( ~16,000 value)
* Level 33 = War Lord ( ~17,000 value)
* Level 34 = Fire Lord ( ~18,000 value)
* Level 35 = DOOM ( too hard to kill)

-----------

To do list
- Master/Title system
- New race
- anti stuck exploit
- sometime Prophet get 11 unit
- score formula not accuracy for level 31+

 

[Averlance]

You don't see it because it's based on Healing Aura of Fountains and you don't receive a buff icon from it.
Instead you can base it on Unholy Aura.

well ok, but this still isnt an answer wether im right or he was. Because if he was right i wont build again one with healing aura and another with greater healing aura, which saves me 100 gold

EDIT: You might gave me a clue with Fountains, but since i never made a map i know nothing about the function of a Fountain