Legion TD Mega 3.5 (B4) + 3.41 unprotect

[iamthekira]

Been busy, and can't find any motivation to sit down for next version yet... but I will start working on ideas/detail now. :

Phase 1 (beta 1): end of Dec or early Jan
- Wave 30-35
- Tier 7 (can upgrade to many difference aura, can upgrade one per Master of <race> title)
- Start with 500 gold (so player can testing title system and 30-35

Phase 2:
- change back to 300 gold
- new race

Phase 3:
- minor changes eg: possible ideas: 3rd upgrade for tier 1, new mode ( too early for detail)

Possible time for final release: end of Jan

more lvls are definitely good news, but i wish you'd adjust the game in a manner that we could reach them more often.
on 3.3 a lot of games ended at lvl 13 if you had a decent team, as i complained during the wave of betas about that being too hard with a pudge, a furbolg and a commander for each player.
now they end at lvl 17, but the best way to screw up someone's game is more recently massing militia at boss lvls + shamans and demons/krakens. only a big overvalue at lvl 20 can be able to hold all that insanity.
so here are a few requests:
-restrict the barracks for boss lvls, so mass militia won't be possible anymore and only a set amount of wood can be used to summon. ive seen people holding wood from lvl 10 to 20 then just retarding the game. they want to win so bad, they dont enjoy thinking every round about defending and well...just playing the game.
-it would be a great thing if you could go back to the pathing from 3.4, it was so much more income friendly and it wouldnt screw up the master title (50 income minimum and 2000 value after 10, for example) cause if you income too much you wont hit the necessary value hence not get the title, and im sure a lot of ppl will aim for it. i know i will ^^
-reworking the arenas would also be good, if you have one leaver on lvl 10, the turtle will probably win the fight for the team, good players go for piercing units for the bosses and you need magic for the turtle. the nightsabers, disciple, machine turrents (though they should be called turrets) and all other little guys with piercing attacks are powerless in front of the turtle, so its still unbalanced. whereas at the next arena they are all crammed up and 3 turtles rarely make the difference then. and its also a matter of the units spawn in the arena (the forbidden trees are often behind the whole lot of units and die last instead of being in the front and making their ability worthwhile).
-i was also thinking that you could change the time before each round starts. like from lvls 1 through 10 make it 20-30 seconds and have it increase as you advance in lvls, but im sure that would be too much, because youd have to rethink the entire income system. im trying to figure out a way to get through the game faster and enjoy the last lvls more than trying to end the game before or at lvl 20. if any of you guys have any suggestions with that, itd be great
-a new race is always welcomed, undead was a bit of a disappointment, i dont like dragon based races anyway and i still havent found a good build for it to help me research from lvl 11 onwards without leaking. give it some decent auras too, the troll of speed, telescope and frost auras really do make a difference in the game. undead's pudge pretty much sucks
-id love a new wave of beta versions and us commenting here about bugs and changes, even if i heard a lot of people complaining about them being too many...im sure that if there had been only one or two betas released, 3.4 and 3.41 wouldntve been as good as they are now
sorry to hear youre lacking motivation, huan, legion td is a great game and youve made it be this way, i do hope youll keep improving it with time and don't give up on it any time soon ^^
thats about it for now, happy holidays to you and the rest of the players from here!

 

[Kurimuraz]

Wow, and now they are hosting a 3.43 version.

Please add a note, that the only real version is at hive or something like this.

I Also Found people that make version 3.43 , 3.41(B5) , 3.44 . Better Give a note the tells '' Do Not Download This Map From Epicwar and also other place as there will be many hack version map that has been hacked ''

 

[Gazelle]

more lvls are definitely good news, but i wish you'd adjust the game in a manner that we could reach them more often.
on 3.3 a lot of games ended at lvl 13 if you had a decent team, as i complained during the wave of betas about that being too hard with a pudge, a furbolg and a commander for each player.
now they end at lvl 17, but the best way to screw up someone's game is more recently massing militia at boss lvls + shamans and demons/krakens. only a big overvalue at lvl 20 can be able to hold all that insanity.
so here are a few requests:
-restrict the barracks for boss lvls, so mass militia won't be possible anymore and only a set amount of wood can be used to summon. ive seen people holding wood from lvl 10 to 20 then just retarding the game. they want to win so bad, they dont enjoy thinking every round about defending and well...just playing the game.
-it would be a great thing if you could go back to the pathing from 3.4, it was so much more income friendly and it wouldnt screw up the master title (50 income minimum and 2000 value after 10, for example) cause if you income too much you wont hit the necessary value hence not get the title, and im sure a lot of ppl will aim for it. i know i will ^^
-reworking the arenas would also be good, if you have one leaver on lvl 10, the turtle will probably win the fight for the team, good players go for piercing units for the bosses and you need magic for the turtle. the nightsabers, disciple, machine turrents (though they should be called turrets) and all other little guys with piercing attacks are powerless in front of the turtle, so its still unbalanced. whereas at the next arena they are all crammed up and 3 turtles rarely make the difference then. and its also a matter of the units spawn in the arena (the forbidden trees are often behind the whole lot of units and die last instead of being in the front and making their ability worthwhile).
-i was also thinking that you could change the time before each round starts. like from lvls 1 through 10 make it 20-30 seconds and have it increase as you advance in lvls, but im sure that would be too much, because youd have to rethink the entire income system. im trying to figure out a way to get through the game faster and enjoy the last lvls more than trying to end the game before or at lvl 20. if any of you guys have any suggestions with that, itd be great
-a new race is always welcomed, undead was a bit of a disappointment, i dont like dragon based races anyway and i still havent found a good build for it to help me research from lvl 11 onwards without leaking. give it some decent auras too, the troll of speed, telescope and frost auras really do make a difference in the game. undead's pudge pretty much sucks
-id love a new wave of beta versions and us commenting here about bugs and changes, even if i heard a lot of people complaining about them being too many...im sure that if there had been only one or two betas released, 3.4 and 3.41 wouldntve been as good as they are now
sorry to hear youre lacking motivation, huan, legion td is a great game and youve made it be this way, i do hope youll keep improving it with time and don't give up on it any time soon ^^
thats about it for now, happy holidays to you and the rest of the players from here!

Seriously there are already too many restriction in the map with li mode and barracks. Dont see the point of preventing players from sending summons if they wanna save.
Personnaly my fav games are when the team save like crazy and yet I manage to defend at the hard lvl they decide to send.
(dont forget than if they win saving wood, doesnt mean they are better, mostly noobs do that cause they are bored of always losing )
I always play against the host in random games on garena, and about 50% of the time I go past lvl 20. (people have also become better at this game with time)
I played 1 game yesterday went to lvl 30, ofc if you always wanna play with the good players to win, you cant have a good game.
Even though I usualy have best income/value lategame I sometimes lose cause of my mates, but who cares if you had fun playing till late game .

Every towers have their weak and strong points. You know what towers are good at arena after you played alot of games, its not impossible to win arena with tree of knowledge, but less likely since they are slow.
That's part of the game, those trees are very good on any other lvls but on bosses.
If you wanna win arena build good units for it, with nature on first arena goliaths and meliai are very good.
Paladin's archer are one of the worst ranged unit at arena, yet do they need modification? not rly, they are good somewhere else.

For fast lvls on the version 2.0 + there is a fast mode option to make the game faster and workers were walking with the same speed bonus, something similar could be done here.

With the new lvls and all other features HuanAk is working on, I think people will save less than before, cause they'll wanna see new lvls, and all other new stuffs .

 

[HuanAk]

i remember in old day (like version 2.17 or 3.0), upgrade king to max is a *MUST DO* for level 20.

king still same, income is better, and there are free holy light heal, so max king can handle 1-2 massive leaked before level 20. (can max king handle full level 17 leak in single player ?)

but somehow nobody upgrade it anymore.

 

[Agal]

The chance is extreamly low = to zero for the king (fully upg) to kill whole lvl 17 level.Even with Immolation,endurance aura and devotion aura you need to heal at least once.
Just tested The king is killing lvl 17 with Imolation aura but not with stun and wave
In my opinion Level 7, sometimes 8 (depend ot which race you are or what units you have builded)17,24,28,29 are the hardest compared to the other levels.I don't know why but the range levels are realy hard even if you are above the required value.The first 10 levels are too easy compared to next ones.But still some races need to be buffed and other need to be nefted.With mech you can easy make 7/5,6 till lvl 11 and with minimal or no leaks from your side you can even make it to 7/7,8 if anyone of your team is leaking.I know that you can make 7/2,3 with other races too but you leak too much after a while.

 

[Gazelle]

i remember in old day (like version 2.17 or 3.0), upgrade king to max is a *MUST DO* for level 20.

king still same, income is better, and there are free holy light heal, so max king can handle 1-2 massive leaked before level 20. (can max king handle full level 17 leak in single player ?)

but somehow nobody upgrade it anymore.

I dont know why but I the past weeks I saw more players maxing king for 20, or at least after 20.
Personnaly, I dont upgrade it so often so I dont lose income, unless the whole team upgrade it at once.
Ofc if you set the same income ratio for king upgrades and summons, king will be maxed first then people will start sending, there was an older version like that 100 wood upgrade, 5 income.
Dont think its better though but game would last longer for sure.

 

[Agal]

I dont know why but I the past weeks I saw more players maxing king for 20, or at least after 20.
Personnaly, I dont upgrade it so often so I dont lose income, unless the whole team upgrade it at once.
Ofc if you set the same income ratio for king upgrades and summons, king will be maxed first then people will start sending, there was an older version like that 100 wood upgrade, 5 income.
Dont think its better though but game would last longer for sure.

Updating the king gives you 210 income (if you do it alone) and it costs 5600 wood so it's just not worth it to upg the king till level 18-20 because it's better to have some income than to upg the king.Just do the math

 

[ArcticWolf]

In old versions 100 wood=3 income for king :], now is better 80 wood for 3 income ...

 

[HuanAk]

Updating the king gives you 210 income (if you do it alone) and it costs 5600 wood so it's just not worth it to upg the king till level 18-20 because it's better to have some income than to upg the king.Just do the math

you lost 1 income per upgrade, that is 70 income in total (share between 3 players)

70 income over next 15 level = 1000 gold (mean your team have 1000 less gold at level 30)
oh, you guy still upgrade king after level 20 anyway, so it is 70 income over next 5 level = 350 gold.

remember:
if you lost, those 70 income doesn't mean anything.
and max king around level 17-20 make you feel safer
so you can push for higher lumber research rather than stop researching.

overall, the whole team push for 2-3 higher and easily catch up the value after level20. this is the only way to improve your winning chance for competition game (eg, Pro vs Pro)

--------------

but the problem is those greedy players who never upgrade king, and push for highest lumberjack without take any responsibility. if he have good teammate then he will have top value/income, else he will say his teammate is noob. (actually I think he is a noob in both if...else condition)

 

[Gazelle]

Updating the king gives you 210 income (if you do it alone) and it costs 5600 wood so it's just not worth it to upg the king till level 18-20 because it's better to have some income than to upg the king.Just do the math

Well I did say I wasnt upgrading the king to not lose income o0.

you lost 1 income per upgrade, that is 70 income in total (share between 3 players)

70 income over next 15 level = 1000 gold (mean your team have 1000 less gold at level 30)
oh, you guy still upgrade king after level 20 anyway, so it is 70 income over next 5 level = 350 gold.

remember:
if you lost, those 70 income doesn't mean anything.
and max king around level 17-20 make you feel safer
so you can push for higher lumber research rather than stop researching.

overall, the whole team push for 2-3 higher and easily catch up the value after level20. this is the only way to improve your winning chance for competition game (eg, Pro vs Pro)

--------------

but the problem is those greedy players who never upgrade king, and push for highest lumberjack without take any responsibility. if he have good teammate then he will have top value/income, else he will say his teammate is noob. (actually I think he is a noob in both if...else condition)

I often play with noobs or player that build more, that's mostly why i dont up king.
Also dont forget that people who upgrade king to be able to up lumberjack without risking loosing, often start leaking and in the end give gold to the other team cause of hg mode, and lose gold from leaking.
If you play that way, it is much better to have a player catching leaks by incoming a bit less, than using king to catch leaks and feeding the other team.

 

[toasted]

There is a small advantage in upgrading king compared to send creeps:
You deny your enemies 280 gold in total, but compared to the 70 income you'll lose that's nothing ofc.

 

[Agal]

--------------

but the problem is those greedy players who never upgrade king, and push for highest lumberjack without take any responsibility. if he have good teammate then he will have top value/income, else he will say his teammate is noob. (actually I think he is a noob in both if...else condition)

I am playing Legion with 2 friends.I think this is the best way we upg the king for level 17 and 20 because sometimes we leak at those levels so we upg it just in case.But if we see that the enemy team is 2/0, 3/0 on team fight i see no reason to upg the king for level 17 unless i am some race or i have units that dont shat a chance vs those golems.

 

[Gazelle]

I never or rarely up lumberjack past lvl 8-9, but I get it pretty early, this is 99% of the time enough to get me the highest value late game.
And its enough to not leak lvl 17 also 99% of the time.
Rushing 7/15 is in my opinion just stupid and unless you were fed ALOT, wont even worth the value

I dont think upgrading king then getting 7/12, cause you're more confident, rly is better since you're anyway going to make those upgrades later.
To get a better value you would need this 7/12 for around lvl 17-18 which is kinda hard (impossible with many races) not leaking with it :S
I can get 7/12 safely at the end of second arena though, but there's a chance you'll be too weak at lvl 24 to handle leaks.

And in "pro vs pro games" the best way to win is for the whole team to save for lvl 28 or something like that, not reach lvl 31. So you wanna reach the highest value for 28.

 

[m05he_d4j4n]

@gazelle
i think you can go 4/1 - 5/1 with almost every prophet rolls after lvl 2 and then up to 6/1-7/1 after lvl 5 and do all lvls to arena, with good piercing,thrall or warden 7/2 is possible too. then i go to 7/4 after arena and start upping again after lvl 14 and do lvl 20 with 7/10-11 and then immediatly to 7/15. the two big steps in lumber uping are easy because 11 and 21-23 are so easy that it is impossible to leak if you did 10/20. if enemys dont mass at 20 and u got average rolls, this works in 90% of all games without big leaks. pro`s get atleast one mass tanks per team until 28 and max king so even save and send all for lvl 28 doesnt work that well, i think mass at 20 is still the easiest way to win.

 

[Gazelle]

@gazelle
i think you can go 4/1 - 5/1 with almost every prophet rolls after lvl 2 and then up to 6/1-7/1 after lvl 5 and do all lvls to arena, with good piercing,thrall or warden 7/2 is possible too. then i go to 7/4 after arena and start upping again after lvl 14 and do lvl 20 with 7/10-11 and then immediatly to 7/15. the two big steps in lumber uping are easy because 11 and 21-23 are so easy that it is impossible to leak if you did 10/20. if enemys dont mass at 20 and u got average rolls, this works in 90% of all games without big leaks. pro`s get atleast one mass tanks per team until 28 and max king so even save and send all for lvl 28 doesnt work that well, i think mass at 20 is still the easiest way to win.

Well I never said it was hard to get 7/15, its pretty easy but I prefer by far having 7/8 and huge value after 20 than 7/15 and soso value.

When I started playing 3.3, every game I was going for 7/15, since on legion TD mega 1.0 and up I was always maxing lumberjack.
Mega version is not working the same way though, my gameplay evolved with time and now its probably not the best, but better than what it was before.

Btw even with 16k value at 28 I dont think any defense can handle 10k wood or over.
Which is around how much I save when I send to "win", sometimes even more.
I can sometimes kill 2 demons some auras and stuff at 28 with fine tower (even meridians).
But 3 players saving 10k wood each with not only demons but shamans and stuff, would like to see a replay of a team surviving that xD.

There's something I'm not sure I understand, you say you get 4/1-5/1 after lvl 2, so just before lvl 3? and 6/1-7/1 just before 6?
I doupt you can do that every game, like maybe 5% of the time?...
And hm most of the all prophet games have li mode on, im curious to know how you make that first lumberjack upgrade without even 600 gold earn in total.
The amount of gold needed for 5/1 and 600 value can be earn only after lvl 4.
Ofc if you're playing version 3.4 early game is easier, on 3.41 never seen anyone getting 6/1 after lvl 5 every games with all prophet.
Yet you say you're not always going for 7/2 for lvl 10 boss which is like 2 times easier to do.

 

[m05he_d4j4n]

"There's something I'm not sure I understand, you say you get 4/1-5/1 after lvl 2, so just before lvl 3? and 6/1-7/1 just before 6?
I doupt you can do that every game, like maybe 5% of the time?... "

ok i admit im stupid, i was talking about 3.4 where 3 is much easier because i dont like and never play 3.41, sorry for that
in 3.4:
1-3 very easy, if u get some good combinations, yggy or a lot of cheap mele units and build them in good positions, they survive all with almost no hp so its possible. the reason i up after 2 is, lvl 2 comes often with a dino who totaly changes difficulty of that lvl, but 3 can be done easily with same units who do lvl 2+dino. 4 is a bit harder but with yggy, footie or some combination of magic dmg+small medium armor tanks its easy too. then i use whole lvl 4 and income gold to get the first piercing dmg or more medium armor cheap blocker, stuff like ghuls footie etc handle 5 very well and if you have a lot of mele 6 is easy too.

 

[Gazelle]

"There's something I'm not sure I understand, you say you get 4/1-5/1 after lvl 2, so just before lvl 3? and 6/1-7/1 just before 6?
I doupt you can do that every game, like maybe 5% of the time?... "

ok i admit im stupid, i was talking about 3.4 where 3 is much easier because i dont like and never play 3.41, sorry for that
in 3.4:
1-3 very easy, if u get some good combinations, yggy or a lot of cheap mele units and build them in good positions, they survive all with almost no hp so its possible. the reason i up after 2 is, lvl 2 comes often with a dino who totaly changes difficulty of that lvl, but 3 can be done easily with same units who do lvl 2+dino. 4 is a bit harder but with yggy, footie or some combination of magic dmg+small medium armor tanks its easy too. then i use whole lvl 4 and income gold to get the first piercing dmg or more medium armor cheap blocker, stuff like ghuls footie etc handle 5 very well and if you have a lot of mele 6 is easy too.

Yeah well you rly cant compare 3.4 and 3.41
On 3.4 you can even get 7.2 before lvl 7 since its way easier there.
And if I wanna income really hard and have good towers I sometimes get 7/15 before second arena.
Btw 3.4 dont give bonus gold with high income in li mode, so yes you can have higher income but you'll recieve less gold from bonus gold and in the end wont rly get a better value.
Also on 3.4 not only does lvl 3 is easier but lvl 2 give more gold so sure you can make alot of worker there.

Anyway I find it strange that you comment on the current version if you only play an older one.
3.41 is by far better, 3.4 is too easy and priest is super op, 1 game a day of that version would be enough for me.
By using priest I can get 7/15 for around lvl 16-18, that's just how imba that version is lol.

 

[m05he_d4j4n]

priest ist bugy, you can have 7/6 by lvl 10 and 7/15 by 15, so i never use priests and kick player who mass them. i just forgot that new version exist because i hate it, allmost all tier 1 and 2 units are useless at newest version so i prefer older and dont use priests/play more much more inc

 

[Skyswimsky]

i rly like this map, it even supports unbalanced player set-ups. But it reminds me also on another map which name i sadly forgot(since they are so similiar maybe you know the map?) its basicly like this map but instead of (minion)turrets you have one hero that lvls up and buys equi~

EDIT: But it should be possible to send Gold other players, u know, that your Turrets defend the stuff of the others is nice and all, but if your Teammate(s) defense is lacking, and they get even less gold cuz they cant hold the wave there's no chance for them to recover.

And i would take out the heal explanation from the orcs, just one not stackable aura isnt rly much "heal"
Also its unclear if the the heartstopaura or whatever its called from the Necromancers(-1%maxhp per sec) stacks or not.

 

[Agal]

allmost all tier 1 and 2 units are useless at newest version so i prefer older and dont use priests/play more much more inc

It's not true they are usefull if you know how to use them

 

[toasted]

It's not true they are usefull if you know how to use them

I guess he is talking about those without special abilities.
Guardian is to root up bosses, Gnoll slows them, Banshee has an awesome slow and fine dps, etc
But Units like Rider, Revenant, Adept or other ones are more a waste of space than a helpful unit.

 

[m05he_d4j4n]

"I guess he is talking about those without special abilities."

exact, poison abilities and stuff like that rule for late and midgame too but the weak only fighting units were very useful in v3.4 because u could income hard with them but with higher income u got weaker units in mid game, which was a very important aspect of the game.

 

[HuanAk]

I guess he is talking about those without special abilities.
Guardian is to root up bosses, Gnoll slows them, Banshee has an awesome slow and fine dps, etc
But Units like Rider, Revenant, Adept or other ones are more a waste of space than a helpful unit.

you have to look at one race as a whole.

for example, nature do not have good early unit so they have good tier 1 (well, before I made tier 6 attack faster)

elf already have too many good unit for early game, so rider become useless. same as element's adept etc.

Undead will adjust again, and I will try enable poison kill (if I can make 100% fix no bounty bug)

 

[toasted]

you have to look at one race as a whole.

for example, nature do not have good early unit so they have good tier 1 (well, before I made tier 6 attack faster)

elf already have too many good unit for early game, so rider become useless. same as element's adept etc.

Undead will adjust again, and I will try enable poison kill (if I can make 100% fix no bounty bug)

Possible, I play most of the time hp. That's why I do not see a race as a whole.

You said some time ago, that the poison gives no bounty if the killer already died and the corpse has already decayed (decay time 1s, iirc). So I suggest, that you could set the decay time of poison units to 1s + poison duration.
This should fix the bug?

 

[HuanAk]

Possible, I play most of the time hp. That's why I do not see a race as a whole.

You said some time ago, that the poison gives no bounty if the killer already died and the corpse has already decayed (decay time 1s, iirc). So I suggest, that you could set the decay time of poison units to 1s + poison duration.
This should fix the bug?

corpse decay time is just a guess.

because Legion TD's bounty system is handle manually by code, so if I can't find "the killer" then it can't give gold

 

[toasted]

corpse decay time is just a guess.

because Legion TD's bounty system is handle manually by code, so if I can't find "the killer" then it can't give gold

Then you could create a dummy unit (created at start, removed at end) with same projectile lauch position etc. that only casts the poison with same projectile speed; of course it has to follow the main unit always but this should not be the main problem.
And after the main unit dies, you can remove the ability of that dummy.

Without knowing the coding this might be a possible solution. You are using vJASS, right?

 

[Kryzon]

HuanAK, have you read my complaint, or do I need to post it a third time?

Thank you.

 

[HuanAk]

Hi,
I sent an e-mail to HuanAK but I don't know if he got to see it, so I thought I should post here.

1) After the first arena level the background music breaks. We can hear the countdown sound-effect, but as soon as that ends and the battle starts the music silences.
If you force-play the music with CTRL+M twice you can hear the track HuanAK originally intended for the players to hear (a 'dramatic battle' theme), but somehow it's not being played correctly.

After the arena battle, warcraft3's default background music for the race of the player stops playing, and if you force-play it again with CTRL+M twice you can only hear the arena's 'victory theme'.

yes, I tried some battle music for arena, but somehow it didn't work as indent (need learn more about music stuff).

2) Everytime the Advanced Barracks receives new creep stock (like at level 10 or 15), we lose the hotkey assignment for it (hotkeyed with CTRL+1,2,3...).
You need to change the creep stock by code, not by replacing the barracks with a new house that looks just like it but has the new creep - this new house won't have the hotkey assignment.

My suggestion:
- Make the units' 'Stock Maximum' value be zero, and 'Stock Start Delay' be something like '1 second'. Keep the 'Stock Delay' as usual, don't change it.
- When the unit is supposed to be available (level 10 or 15), change 'Stock Maximum' to '2' or whatever the number it should be. The unit should be then available.

I don't think it is possible, but I will try search for solutions, or if you know the code/function/library for change stock, let me know.

I will try
- find out how to modify unit's stock max or stock delay in game (don't think it is possible)
- find out how to change to new "unit" without lost hotkey.

do you lost hotkey on builder after change builder ?
or in Dota, do you lost hotkey for changes between Druid & Bear?

 

[HuanAk]

Then you could create a dummy unit (created at start, removed at end) with same projectile lauch position etc. that only casts the poison with same projectile speed; of course it has to follow the main unit always but this should not be the main problem.
And after the main unit dies, you can remove the ability of that dummy.

Without knowing the coding this might be a possible solution. You are using vJASS, right?

most of busy code are in JASS.

the only vJASS are W3MMD.

there are lots of cool looking custom spell in this site, but I try avoid them because it will lag during fight, so all spell in Legion TD should be simple (either default or simple dummy unit), unless it is important spell, like race specific's aura etc

 

[iNfamous]

I will try
- find out how to modify unit's stock max or stock delay in game (don't think it is possible)
- find out how to change to new "unit" without lost hotkey.
do you lost hotkey on builder after change builder ?
or in Dota, do you lost hotkey for changes between Druid & Bear?

I did a quick and dirty test, so this is my suggestion:
Advanced Barracks in object editor without units. At Map Init, add a copy of every unit which should be in, but that unit with stock maximum 0 set in object editor.
call AddUnitToStock(barracks,'unit id of copy',0,0)

Then at the desired level, you remove the units you wanna get available
call RemoveUnitFromStock( the copy etc etc) and add the original unit (with correct stock maximum)
call AddUnitToStock(barracks,'unit id of original',0,3)

Its important that the barracks got the "sell units" ability. And yes, every step is needed, because you cant remove units from stock which arent placed via triggers.
Sound complicated but is very easy and done in no time

 

[Kryzon]

do you lost hotkey on builder after change builder ?

Yes, it's lost.

But if you don't have much time then I suggest focusing on the music first - it's much more important than hotkey.

After arena battle, the music goes silent =/

 

[NeverAimme]

i would like to see some new builders

 

[Bond009]

sup HuanAk, this is a fun game to play from time to time but i think you should dedicate a version not to balance or adding things but to just fixing the games code.

I know its not your fault, its the maker before you but i know for certain that the code in this map has to be a complete pile of toxic trash to put it nicely..
The way this game operates while waves are in progress is unacceptable lol i have a QC-3.6GHz 16GB of ram etc..all specs are beast and my internet is 25mb up and 8mb down with 8ms ping, and i get 10 full sec delay from when i click a creep or train a wisp or right click the rally point to a tree etc..

I know fixing all that trash code will take you time and will be hard but if you need any help feel free to ask good luck man.

also if you wanna send me the unprotected ver u started with or the most recent one u got i can point you in the most messed up places to start with.
My girl friends comp isnt as good as mine so she suffers far more.. so just looking out for people

 

[HuanAk]

sup HuanAk, this is a fun game to play from time to time but i think you should dedicate a version not to balance or adding things but to just fixing the games code.

I know its not your fault, its the maker before you but i know for certain that the code in this map has to be a complete pile of toxic trash to put it nicely..
The way this game operates while waves are in progress is unacceptable lol i have a QC-3.6GHz 16GB of ram etc..all specs are beast and my internet is 25mb up and 8mb down with 8ms ping, and i get 10 full sec delay from when i click a creep or train a wisp or right click the rally point to a tree etc..

I know fixing all that trash code will take you time and will be hard but if you need any help feel free to ask good luck man.

also if you wanna send me the unprotected ver u started with or the most recent one u got i can point you in the most messed up places to start with.
My girl friends comp isnt as good as mine so she suffers far more.. so just looking out for people

It is hard to explain about lag:

1, if you play with 5 other people, and one of them have really slow PC or Connection, then he/she will slow everyone down.

2, Too many unit fighting at same time cause massive lag, this problem is hard to fix, all I can do is don't use fanny spell.

3, effective coding... I already removed all leaked, as well as re-write the code that used most frequence in JASS.

 

[Bond009]

I didn't mean to undermine your coding abilities

Its just that i have played many other games with as many or more units fighting at once like this game and there isnt nearly as much delay so i just wonder where all that can come from.

I also made a ww3 map back in the day and that has 1000's of units on the map at any given time in late game with them moving/fighting etc. So i know all about the limitations of unit movement per player etc.

I think maybe a good option for you would be something that you might not want to do because it may be time consuming but it would very much improve game play

you have 4 players on each side. thats 8 then you have 2 comps 1 on each side thats 10
that leaves you 2 more players to take advantage of

split those waves of units into 2 different sections.
What i mean is for the units that come to red and blue have those be 1 player, like LB for example and have teal and purple's enemies be player dg or brown, one of the unused players you have.
This way it breaks the unit movement up between 4 players instead of 2 total. 2 players per team vs having just 1 enemy player per team.

That alone will greatly improve game play and delay/lag appearance.

If that doesnt fully fix your problem then i would have to see your game to see what other problems are causing great greeat delay in the game.

Because even when just a few units are moving to the end to fight like even 7 units for example (which should cause 0 delay) there is still over 10 second delay. And thats with no units fighting or casting spells etc.. just everything sitting still waiting for those few leaks to come lol.

Let me know after you implement what i said and your next version ppl will love. I always hear about everyone complain about the delay or lag

need any help/advice just ask


oh also the tool tip says the range for the ghost bat unit (ghost race) should be 600 but it is 500, needs to be 600 because it sits in the back when other units fight and doesint move to fight right away maybe make it 650 for the upgraded one even because those banshee's fully upgraded are also 650 i believe.

 

[nafre]

To HuanAK:
I was wondering about bond009's problem. May i know, do you use these type of triggers? If so, how many of them? If you dont use gui then i cant help you.

• Some Trigger
  • Events
    • Unit - A unit Is attacked
  • Conditions
    • ((Triggering unit) has buff Some Shit) Equal to True
  • Actions
    • Do something.

 

[HuanAk]

To HuanAK:
I was wondering about bond009's problem. May i know, do you use these type of triggers? If so, how many of them? If you dont use gui then i cant help you.

• Some Trigger
  • Events
    • Unit - A unit Is attacked
  • Conditions
    • ((Triggering unit) has buff Some Shit) Equal to True
  • Actions
    • Do something.

lots, usually work like this :

• Some Trigger
  • Events
    • Unit - A unit Is attacked
  • Conditions
    • ((Triggering unit) is player 10 Equal to True // east legion
    • ((Triggering unit) is player 10 Equal to True // west legion
  • Actions
    • Do something. // usually simple, eg if mana is full, cast default spell or dummy spell

[/QUOTE]

this map have around 500 custom unit, and 200 custom abilities.

after wave start, all player's unit converted to east & west legion:
player 8 & 9 = east, west creep
player 10 & 11 = east, west legion

 

[Bond009]

I don't mean to undermine your coding abilities

Its just that i have played many other games with as many or more units fighting at once like this game and there isnt nearly as much delay so i just wonder where all that can come from.

I also made a ww3 map back in the day and that has 1000's of units on the map at any given time in late game with them moving/fighting etc. So i know all about the limitations of unit movement per player etc.

I think maybe a good option for you would be something that you might not want to do because it may be time consuming but it would very much improve game play

you have 4 players on each side. thats 8 then you have 2 comps 1 on each side thats 10
that leaves you 2 more players to take advantage of

split those waves of units into 2 different sections.
What i mean is for the units that come to red and blue have those be 1 player, like LB for example and have teal and purple's enemies be player dg or brown, one of the unused players you have.
This way it breaks the unit movement up between 4 players instead of 2 total. 2 players per team vs having just 1 enemy player per team.

That alone will greatly improve game play and delay/lag appearance.

If that doesnt fully fix your problem then i would have to see your game to see what other problems are causing great greeat delay in the game.

Because even when just a few units are moving to the end to fight like even 7 units for example (which should cause 0 delay) there is still over 10 second delay. And thats with no units fighting or casting spells etc.. just everything sitting still waiting for those few leaks to come lol.

Let me know after you implement what i said and your next version ppl will love. I always hear about everyone complain about the delay or lag

need any help/advice just ask


oh also the tool tip says the range for the ghost bat unit (ghost race) should be 600 but it is 500, needs to be 600 because it sits in the back when other units fight and doesint move to fight right away maybe make it 650 for the upgraded one even because those banshee's fully upgraded are also 650 i believe.

HuanAk did you get all of what i was saying?

will you implement what i was talking about and see if it helps the game play a lot?

assume these are the lanes and players:
1 | 3 || 5 | 7
2 | 4 || 6 | 8

make gray be creeps for players 1&2 and LB be for players 3&4 and dg for 5&6 and brown for players 7&8 and it will cut delay in half or better.

if there is still major lag/delay problems then i would have to see some of your code to further help you.

 

[nafre]

HuanAK,
Does it have the conditions like this?

• Conditions
• (Unit-type of (Triggering unit/Attacked Unit)) Equal to DUMBASS

//Ignore the DUMBASS.
If it does i don't think it will be much of a problem.
But if its still delaying maybe you could do like this.
Every time a spell caster is spawned you add them into the event of the spell trigger.
So when they only are attacked then the trigger will run.
Because if you use the event "Unit - A unit Is attacked" then every time a unit is attacked(even those which does not do anything other than attack) the trigger will run.
Thus, for people who are using a lower quality computer will lag.
And this will cause delay for the other players playing with them.

P.S. When i played the only time it lagged is when all the units are attacking. And please tell if you dont understand what i said becoz sometimes i talk crap.

 

[Bond009]

that is a small possibility that is the cause of the problem.

Reason i say this is because i have played this enough to know that the lag doesnt come from just them attacking or casting spells.

Like i said the sample size i have of this issue is vast and theres been times that everyone i was playing with had great computers (i know because they all loaded within 6 secs or less and my high clocked quad core loads within 4-6sec's)

This massive delay is not from ppl having bad computers. and its not coming from the bot host either. It has to do with the game. Once the main fighting is done and the few leaked units walk to the end, if i click a tree for a rally point or even click to train a wisp there is a 10 sec delay before the training begins or before the rally flag will actually get placed on the tree i right-clicked.

also this doesnt happen as bad until a few wave levels have passed, i would say at least below lvl5 its not too bad yet. and it only has the mass delay when a round is in progress.. not during the wait time between rounds.

Its either from the 'units to player ratio' i was talking about or bad code with many leaks. simple as that.

 

[nafre]

Maybe he also uses a lot of

• Events
  • Time - Every 0.5 seconds
  • Conditions
  • Actions
  • Do some update i.e (Multiboard, Gold)

BTW, Bond why do you always reply so long messages. I looked at it and i don't feel like reading.
And i also experience lag or delay while playing.
Edit:
If he adds the extra 2 players wouldn't it be hard, because he has to change almost all the triggers.
Maybe it would be easier for him to increase the creeps stats and reduce the number of spawn.
I wonder if he removes the corpse from the game. Maybe that could be another cause.
Or maybe he chose the wrong settings when optimizing the map if he uses vexorian optimizer.

 

[Bond009]

I dont type too much

thats what i was asking how hard it would be for him to make that change to using more than 1 player per team. it shouldnt affect too many triggers

also he already removes the bodys the sec they die it looks like.
Do you do that with triggers HuanAk or just the game with no revive and no corpses on units?

 

[nafre]

lots, usually work like this :

• Some Trigger
  • Events
    • Unit - A unit Is attacked
  • Conditions
    • ((Triggering unit) is player 10 Equal to True // east legion
    • ((Triggering unit) is player 10 Equal to True // west legion
  • Actions
    • Do something. // usually simple, eg if mana is full, cast default spell or dummy spell

This proves that he has alot to change. And i think you are right, it looks like he removes them right after they die. Oh finally a short reply i managed to read it all.

 

[Bond009]

yea i see.. well i would recommend then for him to just set those players to variables at map initialization and that way he can just copy paste that for everything to fix it from 1 player per side to 2. and if anything then ever changes he can just change it at the variable setting instead in every trigger referencing it.

 

[HuanAk]

Bond009, havn't try barrack yet, will add to my list.

and I will avoid any change in game system (eg, your idea about merg creep for 2 players)

nafre:
yes, most of those ability trigger condition: "(Unit-type of (Attacking Unit)) Equal to Unit_Name

I asked someone from Hive forum, they recommend 100x smaller trigger with simple condition/action is better than 1 big trigger with massive condition/actions

for lag, i notice most lag happen after teleport, and I believed it is something to do with periodic pathing.

In Legion TD, fighter will automatic return to their spawn point from time to time.
plus some spell will reset move action and cause them return to spawn point (eg, Komodo's submerge, any Bloodlust spell worse off etc)

for corpse, when creep die, there are code to give out bounty, then remove corpse at the end of code (use wait 1 seconds), base on my reading on forum, I though remove corpse will reduce lag ?

I think possible reason for lag:
- Periodic pathing, have to use them, I use boolean, unit group etc so periodic won't start until one of player's creep is clear or creep leaked.
- Target aquired trigger for every fighter, force them to attacking targeted unit. i have to use this, otherwise lots of default spell never work. (look at Dota, Orb won't work if you autoattack, it only work if you manually attack)

 

[HuanAk]

HuanAK,
Does it have the conditions like this?

• Conditions
• (Unit-type of (Triggering unit/Attacked Unit)) Equal to DUMBASS

//Ignore the DUMBASS.
If it does i don't think it will be much of a problem.
But if its still delaying maybe you could do like this.
Every time a spell caster is spawned you add them into the event of the spell trigger.
So when they only are attacked then the trigger will run.
Because if you use the event "Unit - A unit Is attacked" then every time a unit is attacked(even those which does not do anything other than attack) the trigger will run.
Thus, for people who are using a lower quality computer will lag.
And this will cause delay for the other players playing with them.

P.S. When i played the only time it lagged is when all the units are attacking. And please tell if you dont understand what i said becoz sometimes i talk crap.

yes, I was thinking about that, eg:
1, before wave start, create a trigger for spell attack
2, select all unit_a, add them to trigger
3, select all unit_b, add them to trigger...
repeat for 100 difference unit type with spell

and inside that trigger:
- need to identify unit type for 100 difference unit
- then write code for every unit
- end up with 1 massive trigger with lots of if...else...if....else etc

so I give up this idea

 

[HuanAk]

This massive delay is not from ppl having bad computers. and its not coming from the bot host either. It has to do with the game. Once the main fighting is done and the few leaked units walk to the end, if i click a tree for a rally point or even click to train a wisp there is a 10 sec delay before the training begins or before the rally flag will actually get placed on the tree i right-clicked.

also this doesnt happen as bad until a few wave levels have passed, i would say at least below lvl5 its not too bad yet. and it only has the mass delay when a round is in progress.. not during the wait time between rounds.

Its either from the 'units to player ratio' i was talking about or bad code with many leaks. simple as that.

yes, lag usually before/after teleport to king.

as for memory leaks, it may leaked somewhere. but I checked my memory useage after a long game, it seen fine or at lease not big difference.

 

[nafre]

What i mean is if you remove the "A unit is attacked" from all the spell triggers and then you can add the units manually using the technique i told you at the post maybe the lag will be reduced. You don't have to compile them into 1 trigger.

 

[HuanAk]

What i mean is if you remove the "A unit is attacked" from all the spell triggers and then you can add the units manually using the technique i told you at the post maybe the lag will be reduced. You don't have to compile them into 1 trigger.

I though I already answer :

1, before wave start, create a trigger for spell attack

set udg_Trig = CreateTrigger()

2, select all unit_a, add them to trigger

//can't use unit is attacked, because it will trigger when creep attacking you
call TriggerRegisterUnitEvent(udg_Trig, GetEnumUnit(), EVENT_UNIT_ACQUIRED_TARGET)

3, select all unit_b, add them to trigger...
repeat for 100 difference unit type with spell

and inside that trigger:
- need to identify unit type for 100 difference unit
- then write code for every unit
- end up with 1 massive trigger with lots of if...else...if....else etc

// lots of if...else...if....else etc inside spell_action
call TriggerAddAction(udg_Trig, function Spell_Action )

so is this what you mean ?

remember EVENT_UNIT_ACQUIRED_TARGET is bad, because it will cast spell from acquired range instead of attacking range.

plus Spell_Action is a massive function, base on my reading, a trigger that run frequency with HUGE function = massive lag.

 

[Bond009]

Idk why i never noticed it before but when the units change from buildings into normal units they become owned by a different players am i right? by the team computer player yes? But they retain their old player color.. lol

Its worse than i thought to begin with. You will never get rid of the massive lag delay unless you use more players im afraid.. :/

My advice to you would be 1 of 2 options or you can even do both for even better results.

Keep the units owned by the main player instead of changing ownership by adding a ward classification to the fighting units, that way they still cant be controlled by the player.
and/or
You should make the enemies that fight be 1 player and the units you change the player owned units to a different player (both on the same team)

Those are your 2 options and im 100% sure of the mass lag/delay problem now.