Legion TD Mega 3.5 (B4) + 3.41 unprotect

[phr33st00fpl0x]

Oh ok I never downloaded those stuff I always have the feeling they are full of virus lol. Do you have a safe link to it?
Also do you have the dota tool that give stats of any units in a map? Tried to find it but couldn't.

The only time I saw garena taking care of trolling/spamming/advertising was when there was an actual moderator in the room, I saw 1 about 2 times.
They are purple and can kick anyone spamming or ban anyone cheating or spamming links.
But that methode is so uneffective, he gets in 1 room at the time and often kick host spamming, so everyone gets mad hahaha.

http://www.garenamaster.com/portal/
It also includes war3 MH but I never use that. Just the auto-joiner feature. Your antivirus might report it as virus, (since it actually injects a small code into the garena program) but it is nothing to worry about.

I dunno about the tool you mentioned

 

[HuanAk]

It is so bored to play Dota on Garena because half of them use maphack. (they can see you from anywhere)

havn't play much recently, lots of public game doesn't last long.

 

[Gazelle]

It is so bored to play Dota on Garena because half of them use maphack. (they can see you from anywhere)

havn't play much recently, lots of public game doesn't last long.

Yup I stoped playing most dota like games on garena, everyone is cheating.
The only hack I heard was usefull on Legion TD was to be able to send ress to your allies.

And the tool I'm talking about enable you to see the dps of any units in game and stuff like that.
A friend was using it, I tried to find it to but I think I downloaded the wrong one, it was only for dota.

 

[phr33st00fpl0x]

But if you think about it, mh is also very useful in LTD. Being able to ignore -mm and see the opponent's unit/lumber configuration can be crucial in deciding whether to income or defend, and which level to mass summons.

 

[Gazelle]

But if you think about it, mh is also very useful in LTD. Being able to ignore -mm and see the opponent's unit/lumber configuration can be crucial in deciding whether to income or defend, and which level to mass summons.

You can see lumbers with the mh?

yeah can also be very usefull to see when to other team is sending summons.

Maybe I'll start hosting games without mm like I was doing before so its fair for everyone.

 

[phr33st00fpl0x]

I can't see lumber directly, but I can count the wisps and upgrades researched bec the town shines when researching.

We have kind of gotten used to playing mind games and tbh it's not that hard to know what your opponents are doing without mh. If one leaks you get to see their units, and if they have not been sending you know they must be saving.

 

[Tele]

Will be a new version?

 

[toasted]

I have some suggestions/balancing issues. Would be nice if you comment on this.

General:

• Nerf Wolverine, either with less dmg, other attack type, other defense type or raised costs (this won't change the fact, that you can spam him with sucess). He is obviously overpower'd (with 9 Wolverines and 1 Doc aka 2550 value you can take lvl 14 and 15, easily)
• Poison should kill again, change the decay time of the corpse to the poison time (perhaps with 1s buffer or somewhat like this).
• Appartion is overpriced, increase cost of Gravekeeper by same amount as you decrease cost of Apparition. Also, my suggestion is to change percentages from 5 and 10 to 4 and 11. Imo, pricing should be 200/250.

Bugs:

• Clockwercks Rockets stun is applied but no dmg is dealt. Increasing the stun duration to ~1,3 seconds would be another useful solution.
• 10% Despair Aura doesn't reduce by 10% (Salamanders e.g. 30-33; reduced by 2)

Food Cost:

• Greymane 385, 2 food
• Maverick 295, 3 food
• Magnataur 300, 3 food
• Pandaren 180, 2 food
• Elite Archer 205, 2 food
• Guard 240, 1 food
• Cyborg 210, 2 food vs Krogoth +290, +1 food (swap food costs)
• Mutant 370, 3 food
• Phoenix 745, 4 food
• Rider 120, 2 food
• War Machine 210, 2 food
• Death Dragon 700, 4 food

Only those who are away of the rule of thumb 1food/150g.

Units never used/with no use:

• Pewee/Veteran
• Peasant/Militia
• Colt/Rider
• Acolyte/Revenant
• Proton/Adept
• Servant/Slavemaster

They need some changes/replacements or just abilities that could be useful/situational or somewhat like 15% damage buff/random other buff on one unit.

regards, toasted

 

[Gazelle]

I have some suggestions/balancing issues. Would be nice if you comment on this.

General:

• Nerf Wolverine, either with less dmg, other attack type, other defense type or raised costs (this won't change the fact, that you can spam him with sucess). He is obviously overpower'd (with 9 Wolverines and 1 Doc aka 2550 value you can take lvl 14 and 15, easily)
• Poison should kill again, change the decay time of the corpse to the poison time (perhaps with 1s buffer or somewhat like this).
• Appartion is overpriced, increase cost of Gravekeeper by same amount as you decrease cost of Apparition. Also, my suggestion is to change percentages from 5 and 10 to 4 and 11. Imo, pricing should be 200/250.

Bugs:

• Clockwercks Rockets stun is applied but no dmg is dealt. Increasing the stun duration to ~1,3 seconds would be another useful solution.
• 10% Despair Aura doesn't reduce by 10% (Salamanders e.g. 30-33; reduced by 2)

Food Cost:

• Greymane 385, 2 food
• Maverick 295, 3 food
• Magnataur 300, 3 food
• Pandaren 180, 2 food
• Elite Archer 205, 2 food
• Guard 240, 1 food
• Cyborg 210, 2 food vs Krogoth +290, +1 food (swap food costs)
• Mutant 370, 3 food
• Phoenix 745, 4 food
• Rider 120, 2 food
• War Machine 210, 2 food
• Death Dragon 700, 4 food

Only those who are away of the rule of thumb 1food/150g.

Units never used/with no use:

• Pewee/Veteran
• Peasant/Militia
• Colt/Rider
• Acolyte/Revenant
• Proton/Adept
• Servant/Slavemaster

They need some changes/replacements or just abilities that could be useful/situational or somewhat like 15% damage buff/random other buff on one unit.

regards, toasted

-It's true that wolverines are very strong against melee but they are very weak against ranged lvl (this mean if you have 9 wolverines for 14 and 15, then wtv you build you'll probably leak on 16 unless you saved alot of gold).

The changes on apparition could be interresting and I dont rly use clockwerk anymore since the ability is not working properly so I agree on that too.

-For food I dont think all units can follow those rules. Some units are stronger than others for the cost, so making them more expensive on food kinda balance the game.

Maverick are very strong the food cost rly is fine, same for magnataur, an aura unit should cost more food.

But I dont see why units like Rider cost 2 food for 120 gold though. War machine is weak, should also cost 1 food.
Panda is a useful unit, maybe making it a bit stronger and more expensive for 2 food would be reasonable.

For the units that are cheaper on food, fenix shouldn't cost 5 food its already kinda weak for the cost.
I agree that Greymane is cheap on food, but I always believed it was compensating with the lack of good armor type with beast.

I dont wanna argue on all the units you posted, I agree with pretty much the rest.

-For the useless units I already made a few post about that.
On Legion TD Rus version, they did something interresting, instead of making new races, they kept the old ones and added new upgrades on most lower tier towers.
Ofc that version need some balancing but it's a good idea.

I think there are many more units that should be on your list, gnoll, mines etc.
Servant can be useful early game imo.
There are also more expensive units that are kinda useless like tempest, if I'm correct it was made stronger than before?
Still too weak I think.

 

[toasted]

-It's true that wolverines are very strong against melee but they are very weak against ranged lvl (this mean if you have 9 wolverines for 14 and 15, then wtv you build you'll probably leak on 16 unless you saved alot of gold).

With one or two Thralls this can be compensated very easy, which makes Orc a very easy and especially boring race. You even do not need to build Warlocks or Wyverns (I build them anyway if I random Orc or those units) and Raider is almost useless.
The problem is that Wolverines fit to every level according to armor/damage type at a very cheap price which makes them too universal for 250 gold.

I think there are many more units that should be on your list, gnoll, mines etc.
Servant can be useful early game imo.
There are also more expensive units that are kinda useless like tempest, if I'm correct it was made stronger than before?
Still too weak I think.

Gnoll is useful for bosses to slow them, so you can build 1 or 2. And mine is very very situational and could be useful sometimes but I agree, useless in mostly all games (built it 5 or 6 times in around 300 games).
I disagree that Tempest is useless. It has a nice speed + siege damage, also it is upgraded to Leviathan. I use Tempests at least to lvl 10, not always but if I can build him I do it in ~50% of games.

 

[Gazelle]

With one or two Thralls this can be compensated very easy, which makes Orc a very easy and especially boring race. You even do not need to build Warlocks or Wyverns (I build them anyway if I random Orc or those units) and Raider is almost useless.
The problem is that Wolverines fit to every level according to armor/damage type at a very cheap price which makes them too universal for 250 gold.


Gnoll is useful for bosses to slow them, so you can build 1 or 2. And mine is very very situational and could be useful sometimes but I agree, useless in mostly all games (built it 5 or 6 times in around 300 games).
I disagree that Tempest is useless. It has a nice speed + siege damage, also it is upgraded to Leviathan. I use Tempests at least to lvl 10, not always but if I can build him I do it in ~50% of games.

By useless I mostly mean that the gold could be spend somewhere else where it "worth more".

I dont think building a gnoll to slow down boss at 10 is that effective, gnoll were ok when poison was killing. On 10 they die rly fast, harpy are better, and at least ranged, your gnoll will be a wasted space late game.

In that same way of thinking most unit on your list arent totaly useless...
Adept, revenant, rider etc arent "useless" the way you're saying it, they can do the job.
But what I'm saying is that the gold can be spend more wisely.
Same for tempest and leviathan, dps and hp is too low for the cost compare to some other mech units.

It's true that even a noob can mass wolverines and have a good game, no tactic needed.
The problem is even bigger with lord of dead and hades since they dont rly have any weakness and are pretty much as strong against ranged than melee.

 

[phr33st00fpl0x]

Funny how this thread died for one week and is brought back again.

Don't ever get leviathan lol. It's like the lousiest unit with neither fighting nor support power.

Though wolverines are supposed to be "good" at melee levels I find them very weak at level 17, they simply aren't beefy enough to take the Golem's iron fists.

Element is the race that sorely needs a change. It has little to none unit synergy early game, and having no backrow pierce damage makes it epicfail at levels like 7, 13, 14 as long as you try to lumber.

Beast is actually a good race solely because of imbabears. Although it leaks like crazy on magic ranged levels, its retarded potency over melee levels means that you can income twice as hard on the rest.

Late game Tier 6/7 with no weaknesses? Hades and DD machine. However I sincerely hope DD machines can do better at 31+. Those goddamn 22 armors need a counter. (Armor-piercing shells? XD)

 

[HuanAk]

been busy playing skyrim.

I am sure I will do something about them in next version.

Wolverines:
How is wolverines build for late game ? it should be weak because berseker is useless (can't tank and die too fast)

Poison Kill:
- will try enable them again see if any not bounty bug.

Appartion
- Price on Ghost's Tier 3/4/5 unit is very weird (good/bad for Hybrid), will leave it as it is now
- Appartion's price is correct, check out dps/cost ratio.

Food cost
- let me know if you found more.

Tier 1,
- can't really do much, if there are good unit (tier 6), then there must be something bad (Tier 1).
- eg, if I make Wandigoo attack faster, then pandaren/Magnataur will become useless
- same as Mech, if I nerfed Pyro & Tier 5, then people will use Veteran again.

 

[phr33st00fpl0x]

^I'm pretty sure Magnataur works best when you have 1-3 of them (for early game tanking and frost aura). DPS is good on paper, but using them as general frontrow army tends to fail because of long attack animation and the fact that its medium armor do poorly against normal and ranged pierce.

On the other hand, Wandigoo is a typical, great frontrow army. Even if it is buffed (lolwut?) I would still make my usual 3 magnataurs for slow aura. The two units are not that comparible.

 

[Gazelle]

On version 2.8, I was always using panda when every one else was using wandigoo and pandas were doing wayyyyy better lol.
But back then their spell was much stronger maybe but back the older spell?

For wolverines they are actualy every strong at lvl 28 with tank in front of them. Since the amount of creeps is low, critic work great there.
On 31 they are pretty weak they can kill fast but die rly fast too, ofc all melee units wont last long on 31.

For element I think I tried every possible ways and yes it need some changes.
Imo a race with the mana reg aura should have more than 2 tier using mana, that's kinda boring, maybe adding a mana spell to violet would be interresting or/and to adept.
And why not a mana shield to golem too (ok that might be too much).

 

[HuanAk]

This map is base on 1.50, so all stat/spell/setting are difference from 2.8.

Element is pretty good race, can reach 7/1 or 7/2 before arena gold. as well as 7/3-7/5 around level 15. and very powerful after level 20.

so Element is almost invincible race, except Magic Damage will leak on fortified armor wave

 

[phr33st00fpl0x]

If element counts as "pretty good race" there would certainly be no bad races ((

This race has no answer to high dps melee levels... Not at all. It fails at all the levels people tend to fail, only a lot harder XD.

(assuming you income a bit more than 7/4 at level 15)

Wouldn't you QQ at no-leak 7/8 Mechs, Goblins, Natures, etcetc. at lv15 when you know they aren't even pulling out half the effort you are?

 

[Gazelle]

Every single game I play, but a few epic failed games (yes it happens sometimes lol) I always get 7/2 before lvl 10.
I can do it with every single race and not leak boss (most of the time), so getting there with element doenst make it '"strong"

The main problem is that element just doesnt seem to keep up after 10.
With high income you can easily kill lvl 11 and 12, then from 13... its a big fail.
Beast is stronger than element at 13, how does that sound? lol

I'm not saying element is weak based on units stats, I'm saying its weak compared to other races, based on alot of games played and I believe many good players agree with me on that.

Ofc if you keep 7/3 the whole game it will be easy to kill any lvl before 20, but you wont be "invincible" late game. (especialy not at lvl 28 the hardest late game lvl)
The min lumberjack I'm trying to get every game to be very strong late game is 7/8. (always before or at lvl 20)
I'm not playing element often enough late game to tell you if you can get 7/8 for lvl 20 without leaking previous lvls.
Now I usualy switch race before reaching lvl 13 so I dont have to stop incoming.

 

[phr33st00fpl0x]

Beast is actually not bad at all at 13 as long as you have like 6 bears or a single dragon.

In addition to what you said about element, I also would like to add that no one is doubting the power of element late game (when you get it from a cb after lv17). It is among the strongest races you can get, with phoenix being a solid late game unit (long range focus fire, insane regeneration) and Messiah a no-brainer buffer for your army. It's just that the early game units are extremely unwieldy against a lot levels.

Tbh element isn't the only unbalanced race; but it's OK for beast to fail lv8 and 16 because it is guranteed to pass the rest even if you are undervalued from lumbering (and it wtfbbqpwns 17, which is a big deciding factor in the game). The same thing cannot be said about element. It is not OK to fail lv7/13/14 because you still need the req value to beat the other levels, which means a sure byebye to any sorts of income-heavy play.

 

[Gazelle]

Tier 1,
- can't really do much, if there are good unit (tier 6), then there must be something bad (Tier 1).

Just wanna get back real quick on this.
Tier 1 to 6 were made for x1 Legion TD not x3.
In x1 you can say a tier was like 3 times more "useful" late game than on x3.

Defense are bigger on x3, using wisely the space in your defense is more important now.
So therefor tier 1, which cost almost nothing, are now real "bad units".

 

[HuanAk]

I saw someone host "Legion TD Mega 3.42.w3x".

anyone know any information about it ? wonder if they success cracked/hacked my latest version.

 

[toasted]

I saw it, too, but I did not download it because I have like every map 10 times so this would just annoy me.

And btw to food balance, I checked all units and forgot Doppelganger 4 Food for 455 Gold.

 

[phr33st00fpl0x]

I thought we talked food cost balance before. You can't really justify Phoenix and Death Dragon costing 5 food (especially dragon), because they are not on the same level in terms of unit power to DD machine, which is the current only 5 food unit.

I agree it is sort of broken for Greymane to cost 2 food, but right now it is the only viable main unit for Beast. To raise its foodcost to 3 we need to at least buff the other units a bit.

 

[HuanAk]

here is replay for element.

not perfect build because value stay at 90%-100% of recommend value.

not major feed except 51 gold from level 10 and small feed after level 14+

2000 value, 60 income, 7/3 after arena.
7/7 after level 14.

didn't leak untill lvl17 (leak 6)

--------------

well, I do not mean Element is top race, but it is good race and can do the job, my rating is base on:
level 1 -10 = very good race
level 10-20 = ok race
level 21-30 = good race (except level 28)
level 31+ = very good race
overall : good race

 

[phr33st00fpl0x]

Watched the replay. Nice build and use of golems/oceanus, I must say.

but the thing is that, your opponent never put any pressure on the difficult levels, if by any chance you get furbolgs (which I see people send a lot) you would still struggle to keep up.

Btw, I like building in hexagons for oracle

 

[Gazelle]

Hm dont know what I was supose to see on the replay but how weak element is lol.

Barely killed lvl 7 with 1160 value with pretty much the best build you can get at that lvl.
Needed to stop at 7/1 before 10 to kill boss.
2620 value at lvl 13 to kill it etc etc.

I'm usualy playing element a similar way with mostly aquas and mudman, getting similar value too for each lvl, if you push it more you leak.
Most races can push it much more than that, I rarely get over 2620 value at lvl 13 with any races.

Also as pl0x said, weak enemies, no hard summons, slow game... everything to make it easy.

I'm not saying you're not playing it right ofc, just that its weak.

 

[HuanAk]

Barely killed lvl 7 with 1160 value with pretty much the best build you can get at that lvl.
2620 value at lvl 13 to kill it etc etc.
.

so you quote 2 hardest level for element ?

every race have their own hard level, if you can kill "hard" level with under recommend value, then it is good race.

Tell me how many game you can:
- reach 2000 value, 60 income, 7/3 after arena.
( not need to precise, just need 2000 value, 50 income)
- 7/7 at level 14, (with ~140 income ? )

I can say "you can't do that with half of other race".

(and remember I am not good at element build, I think I won't leak lvl17 if upgrade 4x mudman instead of build build 3x adept)

Needed to stop at 7/1 before 10 to kill boss.

That is just my play style, I always stop upgrade and raise my income instead of rush for highest lumberjack.

for me, I usually have 100 income 7/5 around level 13.
for other, they have like 60 income, 7/7 ..
and they continue upgrade to 7/10 with 120 income (while I have 200 income with 7/7)

at the end:
me = 17000 value, 7/9, 800 income
other = 17000 value, 7/13, 1100 income (they have lower value than me untill lvl25+)

 

[m05he_d4j4n]

i think in newest version the first lvls are way to hard, as gazelle said tier 1 is rly bad now. in last versions u could use tier 1 very well for the first lvls to get 5/1 until lvl 4 without leaking the next lvls. if you go for 5/1 early then you have worse army in late and mid game because of your now useless tier 1 towers, thats fair. but in newest version u cant income that hard early anway so no reasons for building tier 1 at anytime of the game. thats the reason i prefer older version with priest bug, its still better some ppl abuse this then 1/6 of all units beeing useless. pls change first waves to oldschool.

"- reach 2000 value, 60 income, 7/3 after arena. "
i play prophet most of the time but i get 7/4-5 after every first arena

"- 7/7 at level 14, (with ~140 income ? )"
almost never because to do lvl 10 without leaks u need a lot of units that are weak for 14, 7/5-6 most of the time

as i said i can do that with 9/10 of all prophet builds i get and i imagine it isnt that hard with any race too because u have better balanced rolls then proph most of the time.
i think its very important for element not to get to many water elements because the first 8 lvls are easy for element anway so focus very early on 10 by building the strong units (seer,disciple) in a place where they focus only one boss immediatly.

 

[HuanAk]

"- reach 2000 value, 60 income, 7/3 after arena. "
i play prophet most of the time but i get 7/4-5 after every first arena

Read carefully, it is 2000 value, 60 income , which is more important than 7/3.

I can reach 7/7 if I stop build tower after level 7 (won't leak level 8, 9. but leak level 10).

if anyone think Element is weak, then try upload replay for other race to beat Element's value...and see how many of them can do it.

---------------

level 1 still same in new version, only difference is level 3 is so much harder, and you get less gold from new bounty formula.

Bounty formula changed because all you pro player ask for income cap remove, so the game become harder for new/average player.

in next version, level 3 will become much easier, as well as put back income cap for NOT "li" mode. so -ap without "li" should be easier similar to version 3.3.

 

[Gazelle]

so you quote 2 hardest level for element ?

every race have their own hard level, if you can kill "hard" level with under recommend value, then it is good race.

Tell me how many game you can:
- reach 2000 value, 60 income, 7/3 after arena.
( not need to precise, just need 2000 value, 50 income)
- 7/7 at level 14, (with ~140 income ? )

I can say "you can't do that with half of other race".

(and remember I am not good at element build, I think I won't leak lvl17 if upgrade 4x mudman instead of build build 3x adept)


That is just my play style, I always stop upgrade and raise my income instead of rush for highest lumberjack.

for me, I usually have 100 income 7/5 around level 13.
for other, they have like 60 income, 7/7 ..
and they continue upgrade to 7/10 with 120 income (while I have 200 income with 7/7)

at the end:
me = 17000 value, 7/9, 800 income
other = 17000 value, 7/13, 1100 income (they have lower value than me untill lvl25+)

With element you have to stop at 4/1 for lvl 7 with more, you have alot of chances of leaking.
Any races who can income eariler and stop at 7/1, will get over 2k value and 60 income in the game you had.
Because ofc your game was like 2 times slower than games I usualy play, alot of leaks before lvl 10.
I believe saying lumberjack before arena is more reprensentative since with shity team mates you cant win arena wtv how good you are.
Which makes it 7/2 before arena.
Your tactic if good if all your team do it to win first arena.

You say you get 7/5 with 100 income while other get 7/7 with 60 income. Meaning you can keep an higher value than them mid game.
What about people who get 7/5 very early, then slowly upgrade till 7/8? They'll get a much higher value mid game.

Btw I didnt quote 2 hard lvls for element, stoped at lvl 13 cause lvls after that becomes pretty much as hard and need a close value to req.
Sadly your replay stop at lvl 17 we cant see the result of your build late game.

An another bad aspect of that race, your full line of oceanus will do nothing good late game and take a full line of your defense for only 1620 value.
Sometimes I prefer building units that are weaker early game, but cost more gold overall so my defense if more effective late game.
You dont "need" to mass a 170 gold unit with any other races but maybe a few pandas with artic.

I'll try posting replay if I have time to play, I rarely play normal races this could be interresting.
Ofc all games are differents, some rly slow, some with feed, kinda hard to tell what is average lol.

 

[ArcticWolf]

I saw someone host "Legion TD Mega 3.42.w3x".

anyone know any information about it ? wonder if they success cracked/hacked my latest version.

This is 3.41(B3) map, just renamed

I think it's better for Beast, to make another(3rd) upgrade for ogre, cause it's weak unit, he can be used for tank in first lvls. The element is weak race cause his units are so expensive . And i like the old dwarf, hope u can return it. U can add Merc in ar/sd mod, also his units to be spawned from hybrid with 3,4,5 and 6th terier. I think it will be better the max wisp to be 10,not 7 and max upgrade to 13.


P.P.S My english is very bad, hope u can understand what i wrote

 

[wcen]

Some comments/suggestions:

1) Building space for "dual lane" ( the darkgreen, +1 armor area): Previously in x1, this area can be used by 2 players to build in "co-op" mode. Ppl rarely do it now as the number of buildings in x3 required has increased. Further more, the number of horizontal square in the "single lane" (9) is MORE than the number of vertical squares in the "dual lane" (8.5?). Combined this with 2 players building, the number of lines of towers quickly builds up. With more lines of towers, it is likely that those at the back line will not move at all while those infront get slaughtered. One solution is to widen the dual lane so we can build more towers per line. The trees can be moved closer to the town hall. Since wisp need not walk back and fro like a peasant, the impact on lumbering is minimal.

2) Hybrid vs Prophet: I think most will agree that given a choice, hydrid is rarely chosen between these 2 race. While both have the fun element from the randomnesss, prophet allows you to be more stable because you know what you get and can react accordly to the levels/build for the future. A suggestion is that for EVERY new round, one of the unit choice (randomly choosen from t1 to t6) becomes a fixed unit like prophet. This way you still have a small control over your fate, while retaining the luck-dependence nature of the race. If changing the icon for the builder each round is code-intensive, a simpler way can be to inform the player of the "fixed" unit via text messages. And since there is little used for a hydrid user to change builder to another race, the "re-roll"
can be changed to a unlimited, constant-cost "reset" that changes your fixed unit if you want to gamble.

 

[mightym8]

I am so happy that someone finally told the truth about hybrid.
Cause everyone is saying that it is the est race ever. That is not true at all.
There exist so much randomness and u are not able to handle it.
Sure u can get expenisve units for little gold. But all in all after x->infinity games
u dont have any advantage it is pure luck.

And yeah lategame you may have the advantage of many auras. But first u have to get the auras. But u also can mass auras by changing the race.

But i saw so many haybrids getting stomped cause of randomness.
like getting life steal aura and u almost only got ranged units. or verswise telescope with meele units.
But the most random thing about it is the positioning especially early game.
Like getting a phantom at ur frontier that ll be destroied like hell.
That happened to a guy who desperately tried to build tanks but only got squishy units. If u got no tanks for level 7 or 5 or 8 or 10 ur are fucked up.
Also u cant control the armor-types u ll get. Imagine u only get medium armor or heavy armor this all did happen.
Sure it is again all about randomness. But that is the fact it isnt op at all.

Either you have to be a forecaster or really lucky early game to have an easy time with hybrid.

 

[HuanAk]

a, remove Hybrid from game
b, change Hybrid: fixed unit, add unlimited re-roll, and rename it to "Prophet #2"
c, leave it as it is now, Hybrid is very unique race, some like it, some hate it.

 

[ArcticWolf]

c ...

 

[iamthekira]

i've had some major fails with hybrid, but only when i had the worst luck i could possibly have. eg started out with 3 harpies, got crushed at lvls 2,4 and 5 = lost game from my point of view.
but apart from that... its not as random as it sounds, and its definitely not all about luck. you can choose to upgrade a unit instead of building a new one, try your luck for two auras instead of a more expensive unit, its something you have to think and do some math for.
i think hybrid is only tricky from lvls 1 through 10, if you get by that okay and with a decent income, you will have an awesome endgame. it is op, you could never get the diversity you get from hybrid with prophet or 5 race changes, so thats a load of crap.
for the people who hate it, dont play it. i personally hate beast and arctic, would never pick them in a million years, you dont see me bitching about them here. so...
definitely c, dont change it.

 

[phr33st00fpl0x]

a, remove Hybrid from game
b, change Hybrid: fixed unit, add unlimited re-roll, and rename it to "Prophet #2"
c, leave it as it is now, Hybrid is very unique race, some like it, some hate it.

d, Add a function to allow player move the buildings, so that they can reposition ill-placed units on the building grid (like hybrid randoms). Also very useful to other race.

Might take time to code but I am sure it will be much more rewarding!

(A possible solution, give each building the item ability to create buildings, and remove the original after using it)

 

[iamthekira]

d, Add a function to allow player move the buildings, so that they can reposition ill-placed units (like hybrid randoms). Also very useful to other race.

Might take time to code but I am sure it will be much more rewarding!

yes, that could be the only thing i would agree to.
though if you build them in straight horizontal lines, regardless of the tier, the melee will jump out to fight and the ranged ones will sit back. again, its only a lvl 1-10 problem, after that the whole pack of units will have a nice focus on the creeps nevertheless.
but if you could move them around itd definitely be more organized, good point.

 

[Gazelle]

Maybe when cb mode is on, give only 5 "tower switch" to hybrid.
So you move a few towers early game, or keep them for later when massing tier 6.

Hybrid is the only unmodifed race in cb mode, but the too expensive race switch.
By the time you're rich enough to switch race, it becomes much better to keep hybrid anyway, so that race switch is useless.
So mainly starting with any races is better in cb mode, compare to ap mode, but hybrid, a little boost should balance it.

Btw guys we already talked about hybrid on this forum and you're not rly bringing anything new.
As I already explained you have to play with odds, I hate it when people who dont know how to play hybrid complain about it.
"tried to get a tank but got phantom"
"I started with 3 harpy"
I think you guys need to learn what tier to mass to get the towers you're looking for.
Look how many tanks there are in tier 3 and 4, compare to tier 5.

Sure you can be unlucky, but dont push your luck too much.
I agree hybrid need a boost in cb mode, but if you change it too much, it will be the most op race and you'll start complaining again lol.

 

[wcen]

I think the switch tower position for Hybrid is a great idea. But I do not agree that normal races should be allowed to switch position. Normal builders can and should plan their formation/layout. They can cancel and rebuild without penalty within the same build round to correct misclicks. If they realise that the formation is messed up for long term, it is totally their own doing and should accept it.

I think a slight variantion is to allow hybrid to reposition any NEWLY built units within the build period, instead of having limited "tower reposition/switch" / "change builder"? Any existing towers cannot be repositioned if you do not choose to do it during the round it was built.

 

[phr33st00fpl0x]

But I do not agree that normal races should be allowed to switch position. Normal builders can and should plan their formation/layout. They can cancel and rebuild without penalty within the same build round to correct misclicks. If they realise that the formation is messed up for long term, it is totally their own doing and should accept it.

This makes absolutely no sense.

If this function is applied, why on earth should normal builders be shunned from it in any way? I plan for my formation all the time, yet I would still find reposition very helpful for plays on armor type and fitting in Oracles.

Edit: I get it now. You do not want units to be movable all the time, you simply want hybrid to be able to position newly built units.

 

[wcen]

If this function is applied, why on earth should normal builders be shunned from it in any way? I plan for my formation all the time, yet I would still find reposition very helpful for plays on armor type and fitting in Oracles.

Edit: I get it now. You do not want units to be movable all the time, you simply want hybrid to be able to position newly built units.

Yup. The fact is that you CAN still plan for your formation all the time using normal builder. You can control where you want to put your oracle in preparation of future big units. You can control where is the best position for your aura.

Hybrid formation is way more chaotic and harder to plan. There is no way to know whether the T4 unit you are building is an aura unit, oracle or a normal unit. Allowing newly built tower to be repositioned brings them to the same level of "formation planning" as the other races.

 

[HuanAk]

Another element replay :
- Never leaked
- Defend level 17 with 4500 value (recommend value = 4500)
- Defend level 28 with 14600 value (recommend value = 13000)
- kill all 25 leaked from teammate on level 28

- small feed from early game ( result 7/3 instead of 7/2)
- but never won any arena

------------------------

here is detail:
Element :

Level 1:
+1 Mudman
+2 Aqua
+1 wisp
230 value

level 2
->1 Oceana
== 1x oceana, 1x aqua, 1x mudman, 2 wisp
360 value

level 3
+2 aqua
+1 wisp
== 1x oceana, 3x aqua, 1x mudman, 3 wisp
460 value

level 4
+1 mudman
+1 wisp
== 1x oceana, 3x aqua, 2x mudman, 4 wisp
590 value

level 5
+1 mudman
+1 lumber
+1 aqua
== 1x oceana, 3x aqua, 3x mudman, 4/1 wisp
770 value

level 6
-> oceana
+1 wisp
== 2x oceana, 3x aqua, 3x mudman, 5/1 wisp
900 value

level 7
-> oceana
+1 oceana
== 4x oceana, 1x aqua, 3x mudman, 5/1 wisp
1160 value

level 8
-> oceana
+1 wisp
== 5x oceana, 3x mudman, 7/1 wisp
1290 value

----------------
Important level :
- need 1x disciple for level 10 boss (piercing damage + spell damage)
- need 1 row of Golem for level 17 (siege damage)
- need lots phenix/Seer for level 20 boss (magic damage)
- need 1 row of disciple for level 28 (spell damage)

 

[phr33st00fpl0x]

Important level :
- need 1x disciple for level 10 boss (piercing damage + spell damage)
- need 1 row of Golem for level 17 (siege damage)
- need lots phenix/Seer for level 20 boss (magic damage)
- need 1 row of disciple for level 28 (spell damage)

A question, what type of damage is phoenix bonus damage?
Also I don't understand the detailed effect of limited income, but it seems I get a much higher income under ap than sd.

 

[toasted]

In -li there are restrictions for wisps (first wisps requires 350 value) and first two lumber upgrades (650 and 1300 iirc).
Also there is/was an income cap which was disabled in 3.41?

 

[Gazelle]

I thought phenix was dealing magic dmg on bonus dmg, but is it only like critic?

For disciple, with mana reg, is the aura good enough to make every attack magic?

 

[HuanAk]

It doesn't matter about -li or not, you can buy wisp 1 level later.

and I had proof that :
- element is very strong on early level 1-10 (7/2 - 7/3)
- element is average between 10-20 (didn't leak lvl14,17,20)
- element is very strong again after level 20 ( impossible to leak, I can even kill full leak on lvl29 from teammate

so don't tell me element is weak again.

I really like element because you can't just spam 1-2 unit for whole game.

 

[HuanAk]

I thought phenix was dealing magic dmg on bonus dmg, but is it only like critic?

For disciple, with mana reg, is the aura good enough to make every attack magic?

Pheonix = Magic damage/medium armor. (note, Magic do not equal Spell)

click on disciple to see it mana during fight. I think it run out after 20 seconds, and regen back to 10 mana up every 2-3 seconds.

 

[wcen]

Pheonix = Magic damage/medium armor. (note, Magic do not equal Spell)

click on disciple to see it mana during fight. I think it run out after 20 seconds, and regen back to 10 mana up every 2-3 seconds.

More Questions: Is Spell dmg unaffected by armor type (100% for all)? Also is it unaffected by auras (eg by captain/admiral)?

On the element replay. Watched it yesterday but did not check if "hg/gg" turned off. As I recalled blue was consistantly leaking even in early rounds, the extra gold from leak will be too significant if "hg/gg" was on.

 

[phr33st00fpl0x]

More Questions: Is Spell dmg unaffected by armor type (100% for all)? Also is it unaffected by auras (eg by captain/admiral)?

Spell should deal 100% to all types except hero. I don't know the constants for hero in this map but spell damage usually do 75% damage to hero armor.

+attack aura only increases a percent of the unit's base damage so spell damage is unaffected.

Also note that spell damage ignores armor value. So it means spell damage will deal 18% more than chaos damage to a regular, 3 armor unit. (Or 132%, on Legion Lords from level 31+, because they have 22 armor!)