[Spell] Kiting system problem

[lordsent]

Hi i was trying to create a kiting system like in sc ( means that units with more range or speed retreat from enemys and shoot them from safe distance ).

But i fail because some issues:

1- Amazing slow turn speed of the units. Dont know why in all the games i played ( also blizzard ones ) the units turn instantly and in wc3 they need like a entire second.

2- using a loop every 0.03 and dont know why giving many move orders to the units cause bug.

I download the EngageSysten by Mckill2009 and try it changing values but nothing.

The insane AI some times does the kiting but dont know why not too much.

Anyway my last resource was to use cheat engine to speed up the game x3 soo then the turn rate is fixed but then i still have the problems with the walking animation that looks really weird. And if enemys come from both sides it lags like hell.

Thanks for reading i am noob and maybe is really easy but couldnt find it through search in Hive.

 

[Xonok]

Hi i was trying to create a kiting system like in sc ( means that units with more range or speed retreat from enemys and shoot them from safe distance ).

But i fail because some issues:

1- Amazing slow turn speed of the units. Dont know why in all the games i played ( also blizzard ones ) the units turn instantly and in wc3 they need like a entire second.

2- using a loop every 0.03 and dont know why giving many move orders to the units cause bug.

I download the EngageSysten by Mckill2009 and try it changing values but nothing.

The insane AI some times does the kiting but dont know why not too much.

Anyway my last resource was to use cheat engine to speed up the game x3 soo then the turn rate is fixed but then i still have the problems with the walking animation that looks really weird. And if enemys come from both sides it lags like hell.

Thanks for reading i am noob and maybe is really easy but couldnt find it through search in Hive.

There is literally a place for turning speed in the object editor. Note that you can hold down shift when opening box to allow unbound values.

Also, in WC3 a player can only give about 1 order per frame. This is pretty much an unbreakable limit, so you should avoid it.
One way is checking what the current order is and if it is the same you want to give, then don't do anything.
The other way is using events instead of a loop. For instance, you can make the unit move away only when something attacks it.

 

[lordsent]

I hold shift but values beyond 3 dont make any effect.... ( turn rate )

Cant use events because i need to check if enemy unit is near. That is what is kiting. t.t

 

[Xonok]

I hold shift but values beyond 3 dont make any effect.... ( turn rate )

Cant use events because i need to check if enemy unit is near. That is what is kiting. t.t

Well, there's many ways, you just need to be creative.
For instance, you can make it respond to the kiter's attacks instead, as obviously the one kiting is the one with high range.
Also, with SetUnitX/Y it is possible to move backwards. (without cancelling orders)
All is possible.

 

[lordsent]

Well, there's many ways, you just need to be creative.
For instance, you can make it respond to the kiter's attacks instead, as obviously the one kiting is the one with high range.
Also, with SetUnitX/Y it is possible to move backwards. (without cancelling orders)
All is possible.

FOR GOD sake i did it using a damage system when the range unit attacks then back ups. It works but.....

everything is perfect except for the turning speed..... I speed up wc3 x3 and even with that it takes the unit with maximun turn rate to turn a bit more than 0.5 !!!

If i dont run cheat engine it takes like a second for the unit to turn and attack again the enemy!!

I tried this ::

1- marine : 400 range , 450 speed , 3 speed turn.
2- soldier : 80 range, 200 speed, 0.5 speed turn.

And like in 9-10 shoots the soldier is getting and hitting the marine.... all for the amazing turn rate. ( and that is x3 ). This is not normal... the marine has more than doble speed.

 

[Xonok]

FOR GOD sake i did it using a damage system when the range unit attacks then back ups. It works but.....

everything is perfect except for the turning speed..... I speed up wc3 x3 and even with that it takes the unit with maximun turn rate to turn a bit more than 0.5 !!!

If i dont run cheat engine it takes like a second for the unit to turn and attack again the enemy!!

I tried this ::

1- marine : 400 range , 450 speed , 3 speed turn.
2- soldier : 80 range, 200 speed, 0.5 speed turn.

And like in 9-10 shoots the soldier is getting and hitting the marine.... all for the amazing turn rate. ( and that is x3 ). This is not normal... the marine has more than doble speed.

Hmm. That's truly strange. I've always had problems with the turn rate being too high and that making it lower causes units to clog up.

 

[lordsent]

Hmm. That's truly strange. I've always had problems with the turn rate being too high and that making it lower causes units to clog up.??????!!!!!!!!!

maybe you change something in game constants or in triggers??


I really need this because i dont want to use cheat engine ( well i cant use it in LAN games ) and at normal speed is imposible to do the kiting with 1 second turn speed...

+9999 rep if you can help me. ( joke )xD


now for real dont get why starcraft has instant turn rate and wc3 this... they are the same games and one is from 1998 t.t

 

[Xonok]

Hmm. That's truly strange. I've always had problems with the turn rate being too high and that making it lower causes units to clog up.??????!!!!!!!!!

maybe you change something in game constants or in triggers??


I really need this because i dont want to use cheat engine ( well i cant use it in LAN games ) and at normal speed is imposible to do the kiting with 1 second turn speed...

+9999 rep if you can help me. ( joke )xD


now for real dont get why starcraft has instant turn rate and wc3 this... they are the same games and one is from 1998 t.t

Not having instant turn rate has its own advantages, but that's irrelevant atm.

One more thing to note is that the Attack - Animation - Damage point is also important. If you lower that, then the unit can attack faster. Turning is absolutely irrelevant at this point, because the animation damage point is what really takes the time.

EDIT: Done some tests and noticed, that Art - Blend time also has an effect.

 

[lordsent]

um attack animation damage point its set too 0.170
the other is set to 0.700 i changed to 0.300 and nothing.

The soldiers still get to the range...


Okey i did some edits and now is working pretty good. But Xonok the turn rates mutter. I see how they turn and is like 0.5 sec for 180 degrees. In starcraft looks like 0.1 sec or less the uni turn. Also legue of legends, world of warcraft ect.... ect...

Anyway thanks

 

[Xonok]

Well, it works well for me. Check out the attached map.

EDIT: Updated attachment. This stuff is funny.

 

[lordsent]

Well, it works well for me. Check out the attached map.

EDIT: Updated attachment. This stuff is funny.

I Tested and is quite good. But a few things:

1- Only for one unit. And only one enemy.
2- The turn rate still is to much. The priest takes like more than 0.5 when he turns 180 degrees.
3- What means order-smart ?
4- Is click order better than move order?

Anyway check mine please. 20 marines vs 40 soldiers. And tell me what you think please

You need to press ESC to start.

 

[Vinz]

1. I dont think a master like Xonok would create something non Mui.
2. Maybe its only you.(?)
3. Move, Attack, Patrol, Hold, Stop.
4. What?

 

[lordsent]

1. I dont think a master like Xonok would create something non Mui.
2. Maybe its only you.(?)
3. Move, Attack, Patrol, Hold, Stop.
4. What?

Please test the map then talk, is not MUI or is not for a group of unit. Its not me that turn rate is really weird in wc3.

And i said Xonok map is fine and give him rep. But only pointed out that issues that maybe are imposible to solve because of wc3 engine.

 

[Xonok]

I Tested and is quite good. But a few things:

1- Only for one unit. And only one enemy.
2- The turn rate still is to much. The priest takes like more than 0.5 when he turns 180 degrees.
3- What means order-smart ?
4- Is click order better than move order?

Anyway check mine please. 20 marines vs 40 soldiers. And tell me what you think please

You need to press ESC to start.

1. Was a proof of concept. By now I've made it use a unit group and act a bit wiser(using abilities on proper targets, etc).
2. It seems quite reasonable to me. Alternatively you can still add a "back up" functionality, aka, units move away from what they shoot, without stopping shooting and without turning.
3. Smart is the rightclick order
4. I'm not sure about that, but I'm quite sure it ain't worse.

Uploaded newest testmap.
it still has 2 big flaws that I can't really fix well without remaking the whole thing in JASS.
1. The target unit is constantly changed. The result being that when there's many units, then the ranged ones don't kite.
2. It's all very inefficient

There's also the small problem that units target dead enemies, but that's easier to fix.

EDIT: Remade most of the system in JASS. Works better, mostly. I've also added the "back up" functionality, which makes ranged units retreat without turning around. The retreat is only a quarter of their normal speed though.