Kingdom Builder v1.25

[Moderator]

15:02, 13th Aug 2010
ap0calypse: Rejected

Description hasn't been updated.

 

[Vengeancekael]

Add a category and a proper author name.

 

[krisserz]

Add category and fix author name.

 

[The_Phalanx]

Considering I have my own Builder map, I'll take a look at this.

Thoughts

If I had played this on Battle.net, I probably wouldn't want to play it again for some time. You've got a few features in here that I found to be pretty annoying.

Terrain

You did a good job using the Blizzard cliffs, but nowadays, most mature mappers stay as far as possible away from using Blizzard cliffs and instead use the Raise Ground Tool. You've done a decent job with what you did, so if you want to stick with that, be my guest. With that said, the overall Tiling and Doodading was awful. When you start using tiles, the idea is to have the most amount of variation possible. Unless its a melee map, you want to avoid large areas of a single or two tiles. There was no area on your map that had more than 3 tiles. As for Doodads, other than trees, Doodads were non-existent.

Gameplay

From what I've played, Castle Builder, LotR Builder, Village Builder, Stronghold Builder, Empire Builder, etc, you use a non-traditional income system. Meaning, you're not gathering something with workers. However, your map focuses a lot on lower tiered units requiring lumber and higher tiered units requiring gold, where gold was obtained through a non-traditional way, but lumber was all gathering. If anything, it was very much like a Vampirism game's income system. If that's what you want, whatever, but in a builder, people are expecting not to have to do any gathering.

One of the more annoying things about the map was the Upgrades. I have to build the building, and then pay another 50 gold for upgrades? And then if I want to build those troops I need to make another building? You didn't exactly have that many upgrades. You could have made a Blacksmith building where the Infantry and Cavalry attack/armor upgrades could go, and then put the other upgrades at the bottom of the production building. The only building you might have trouble with fitting them in is the Barracks. In which case, make an Archery Range and get the Archers out of there. The upgrades like that is just a major pain in the ass.

You might want better god names than Water, War, and whatever the 3rd one was. Death I believe? How about Neptune, Mars, and Pluto. If Greek then Poseidon, Ares, and Hades.

Polish

Tooltips need working. Telling me a building can beasts like centaurs and tauren tells me little more than jackshit. And centaurs and tauren should be capitalized, Centaurs and Tauren, not uncapitalized. Also, speaking of Centaurs, is there a reason why the Centaur archer unit only costs 20 lumber? Its stronger than the first normal Archer you can build, and cheaper than a worker.

Work Camp Peasants had a different armor type than Fortress/Palace peasants. And speaking of the Palace, the pathing of the Palace was bigger than the Outpost, which means when I upgraded it, my troops couldn't get by it. And, then there were some buildings like the Caster building and the Spawning Bed could be stacked ontop of each other.

 

[Crazed_Hobo]

Considering I have my own Builder map, I'll take a look at this.

Thoughts

If I had played this on Battle.net, I probably wouldn't want to play it again for some time. You've got a few features in here that I found to be pretty annoying.

Terrain

You did a good job using the Blizzard cliffs, but nowadays, most mature mappers stay as far as possible away from using Blizzard cliffs and instead use the Raise Ground Tool. You've done a decent job with what you did, so if you want to stick with that, be my guest. With that said, the overall Tiling and Doodading was awful. When you start using tiles, the idea is to have the most amount of variation possible. Unless its a melee map, you want to avoid large areas of a single or two tiles. There was no area on your map that had more than 3 tiles. As for Doodads, other than trees, Doodads were non-existent.

Gameplay

From what I've played, Castle Builder, LotR Builder, Village Builder, Stronghold Builder, Empire Builder, etc, you use a non-traditional income system. Meaning, you're not gathering something with workers. However, your map focuses a lot on lower tiered units requiring lumber and higher tiered units requiring gold, where gold was obtained through a non-traditional way, but lumber was all gathering. If anything, it was very much like a Vampirism game's income system. If that's what you want, whatever, but in a builder, people are expecting not to have to do any gathering.

One of the more annoying things about the map was the Upgrades. I have to build the building, and then pay another 50 gold for upgrades? And then if I want to build those troops I need to make another building? You didn't exactly have that many upgrades. You could have made a Blacksmith building where the Infantry and Cavalry attack/armor upgrades could go, and then put the other upgrades at the bottom of the production building. The only building you might have trouble with fitting them in is the Barracks. In which case, make an Archery Range and get the Archers out of there. The upgrades like that is just a major pain in the ass.

You might want better god names than Water, War, and whatever the 3rd one was. Death I believe? How about Neptune, Mars, and Pluto. If Greek then Poseidon, Ares, and Hades.

Polish

Tooltips need working. Telling me a building can beasts like centaurs and tauren tells me little more than jackshit. And centaurs and tauren should be capitalized, Centaurs and Tauren, not uncapitalized. Also, speaking of Centaurs, is there a reason why the Centaur archer unit only costs 20 lumber? Its stronger than the first normal Archer you can build, and cheaper than a worker.

Work Camp Peasants had a different armor type than Fortress/Palace peasants. And speaking of the Palace, the pathing of the Palace was bigger than the Outpost, which means when I upgraded it, my troops couldn't get by it. And, then there were some buildings like the Caster building and the Spawning Bed could be stacked ontop of each other.

Thanks for the suggestions. A few questions: did you find this alternate income system bad, or did you just think it was different? I'll be making the fixes you suggested. I made the upgrades in the same structure because it seemed like it'd be easier then digging through all sorts of different research structures. Do you think I should make the upgrade structures free, then just enable them to switch back for free again?

I'm not sure about changing the income system to something else, but I might change the name... this didn't even have a name up until recently, so that's why the name is kinda bleh. I'll work some more on terrain tile randomization, along with adding more doodads, although for the record I did add flowers, rocks, mushrooms and such in...

As for the moderation issues: How do I change the made by tab to something other then unknown? Where do I click?

 

[tastywater]

Tested it, there are a few things I found bad about it:

Centaurs cost 20 lumber. If playing this, the obvious strategy will be to mass centaurs.

Add gates and walls to be built. Building troops for mana is simply not so good, as your mana fountains give 4x their income and cost less.

I like some troops and the thing about this map is that you specialize your army to suit you.

I think the altered income system is pretty good, nothing unusual though. The researches has to change though, either make so that the necessary researches for new units are in the same structure, or that upgrading is free, instant and reversable.

 

[The_Phalanx]

Thanks for the suggestions. A few questions: did you find this alternate income system bad, or did you just think it was different? I'll be making the fixes you suggested. I made the upgrades in the same structure because it seemed like it'd be easier then digging through all sorts of different research structures. Do you think I should make the upgrade structures free, then just enable them to switch back for free again?

I'm not sure about changing the income system to something else, but I might change the name... this didn't even have a name up until recently, so that's why the name is kinda bleh. I'll work some more on terrain tile randomization, along with adding more doodads, although for the record I did add flowers, rocks, mushrooms and such in...

As for the moderation issues: How do I change the made by tab to something other then unknown? Where do I click?

Your doodads were so few it was barely noticeable. I saw like 3 mushrooms I think.

 

[krisserz]

Still author`s name is not fixed.

 

[Crazed_Hobo]

Still author`s name is not fixed.

How do I change the author's name? I looked, and asked in the previous post but I guess it just vanished or something... so I'll ask again, how do I change the author?

 

[krisserz]

You set this in World Editor in scenario -> description.

 

[Crazed_Hobo]

You set this in World Editor in scenario -> description.

Thanks! Also uploaded a slightly updated version... fixed the pathing issues in addition to updating the tooltips, changed the centaurs cost, and made converting to research facilities free. In addition, research facilities can now revert back to their respective production structures, also for free.

 

[Archangel_Tidusx]

Review

Gameplay
Overall I found that the game was pretty fun. Its easy to develop a base without constantly being harassed. The units were cool to mess with but some just didnt fit in. The upgrades were hard to follow as well, and jumbled. It would be a lot easier to follow if they were researched in a line as they were needed. The combat seemed to be based primarily on what you could bass and that detracted from the fun in some aspects.

3.8/5

Terrain
The terrain was a fun change to most crappy maps I have seen. The texturing of the map could use some work, and in some areas the units would hole themselves in and it just got ridiculous when trying to battle. The map could use more pathways is basically what I am suggesting. Other than that, the map seems to be good.

3.2/5

Suggestions/Improvements
I would suggest making some of the upgrades more realistic. Like I suggested during the test, 600 lumber for a 5 lumber carrying increase just seems unreal. I would also suggest some additions to map navigation. Easier pathways, less congested areas or a way to avoid the congested areas.
Id also suggest some tips to help the new players, added to the tooltips. Maybe in the units' tooltips you could say something like "this unit can be upgraded by 'blah blah'". Another thing i found distracting was the grammar of some of the tooltips. "THIS UNIT CANNOT BE DOWNGRADED DO NOT UPGRADE IF YoU WANT TO KEEP BARRACKS" or something like that lol. It's minor, but it definitely annoys me lol. Aaaanyway...

Rating:
3.8+3.2=7/2= 3.5/5
Keep at it my friend.

 

[Crazed_Hobo]

Tested it, there are a few things I found bad about it:

Centaurs cost 20 lumber. If playing this, the obvious strategy will be to mass centaurs.

Add gates and walls to be built. Building troops for mana is simply not so good, as your mana fountains give 4x their income and cost less.

I like some troops and the thing about this map is that you specialize your army to suit you.

I think the altered income system is pretty good, nothing unusual though. The researches has to change though, either make so that the necessary researches for new units are in the same structure, or that upgrading is free, instant and reversable.

Oh, I actually missed this before, sorry... but in the newest version, 1.11, I fixed the centaur cost. And I didn't mean for units to be the only source of mana, obviously you want mana springs, but I figured they could help lighten the load, and mana springs do take food also. I'm unsure about adding gates and walls, though, because towers take 0 food, and gates and walls would just make that to good.

 

[Archangel_Tidusx]

There's always room for change, my friend. =]

 

[Cweener]

Needs fix.

Please add to your description, so I can properly review this.

 

[Crazed_Hobo]

Needs fix.

Please add to your description, so I can properly review this.

Which description do you need? And the fixed version has been uploaded.