Kind of model edit that shouldn't require Author permission.

[Callahan]

Imo some kind model editing shouldn't require Author's permission.
As the author would probably be Ok with it and asking/giving permission is a waste of time for both modeler and user.As long as the editor don't take credit for the whole model.

Example 1 :
Adding Hero glow/Removing hero glow.
This edit is basically how you use the model for hero unit or standard unit and it has close to nothing to do with the model itself.

Example 2 :
Fixing the model for usability.Like in another thread a guy complained that a he couldn't select a unit because the model it used didn't had extents.Asking permission to just recalculate extents so it can be used properly is actualy saving time the the modeler so he won't have to do it himself.

Example 3 :
Fixing the model for technical aesthetic.If the model has inside out normals and just look horribly wrong and it obviously wasn't an artistic choice of the modeler you should be authorized to fix it without permission.

Example 4 :
Sequence name change.If you want to use "attack - 2" as spell slam you shouldn't require permission to change sequence name of the model.It is not an artistical edit and more for convenient use as quering "attack - 2" specific animation for a spell in WE is hard without coding knowledge.

Example 5 :
In general if the model is properly credited to the original author and the user didn't take credit for the minor edit he did it's acceptable to not ask permission.But If you intend to credit the model as "Original model by X edited by Y" you should ask permission as the edit can be so minor that it's not honest to take 50/50 credit for it.

What do you think as a modeler?Would you be upset if someone edit your model in that way?

 

[Binsu]

Ok, looks like Im wrong in the things I said about the thread...

For my opinion, I think it just looks fine because this is done to improve, make it more useful in a map or fix some things.

 

[PROXY]

Totally agree with this. Used to download lots of models with fucked up normals wrong animation names and so on. I fixed the normals, but didn't want to yet use them anywhere cause the authors are gone and stuff.

 

[Talavaj]

I'm generally against that but those changes are really minor so it is fine.
I think it would fall under "use and adapt", the adapt part being that you can edit models of others to fit your use but you can adapt them only for your work.
That being said, the models shouldn't have those issues to begin with. I thought moderators were there to ensure that.

 

[General Frank]

People can always ask the creator of the model if he is still active, which most guys are.
If the creator of a model is long gone then I think it is okay-ish to edit the model for personal use. But if they removed their resources and someone edit and uploads it might be very fishy and totally shit-headed. At least to me.

But in general, it is never wrong to ask first. That's a measure of respect and not permission.
And also patience. You can barely get hit so hard by waiting a few days.

Examples 1, 2 and 4 can be done by users themselves. Sure. No biggy.
On examples 3 and 5 however I see that help of the creator of a model is vital. Sometimes they mess up the model completely and in the case of example 5 it is simply rude to claim something that is not yours.
I think most modellers should take in consideration that after they release a model they have a responsibility to upkeep the model and help the person who intend using and/or manipulating it for personal use. There is no cost at all of asking for help on a model. We are in fact a community and not some mumbo-jumbo fashion boutique.

I have no problem in whatsoever if a person edits my model if they at least ask for it.

But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong , but that's how I think it is.

 

[Binsu]

People can always ask the creator of the model if he is still active, which most guys are.
If the creator of a model is long gone then I think it is okay-ish to edit the model for personal use. But if they removed their resources and someone edit and uploads it might be very fishy and totally shit-headed. At least to me.

But in general, it is never wrong to ask first. That's a measure of respect and not permission.
And also patience. You can barely get hit so hard by waiting a few days.

Examples 1, 2 and 4 can be done by users themselves. Sure. No biggy.
On examples 3 and 5 however I see that help of the creator of a model is vital. Sometimes they mess up the model completely and in the case of example 5 it is simply rude to claim something that is not yours.
I think most modellers should take in consideration that after they release a model they have a responsibility to upkeep the model and help the person who intend using and/or manipulating it for personal use. There is no cost at all of asking for help on a model. We are in fact a community and not some mumbo-jumbo fashion boutique.

I have no problem in whatsoever if a person edits my model if they at least ask for it.

But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong , but that's how I think it is.

Good and valid points there =D

I fully agree!

 

[Callahan]

People can always ask the creator of the model if he is still active, which most guys are.
If the creator of a model is long gone then I think it is okay-ish to edit the model for personal use. But if they removed their resources and someone edit and uploads it might be very fishy and totally shit-headed. At least to me.

But in general, it is never wrong to ask first. That's a measure of respect and not permission.
And also patience. You can barely get hit so hard by waiting a few days.

Examples 1, 2 and 4 can be done by users themselves. Sure. No biggy.
On examples 3 and 5 however I see that help of the creator of a model is vital. Sometimes they mess up the model completely and in the case of example 5 it is simply rude to claim something that is not yours.
I think most modellers should take in consideration that after they release a model they have a responsibility to upkeep the model and help the person who intend using and/or manipulating it for personal use. There is no cost at all of asking for help on a model. We are in fact a community and not some mumbo-jumbo fashion boutique.

I have no problem in whatsoever if a person edits my model if they at least ask for it.

But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong , but that's how I think it is.

I meant for using in a wc3 map.Re-releasing/redistributing someone else model on website shouldn't be authorized without permission.
Many old model have their author inactive and won't reply to the users anyway.As for modeler having responsability over model they release is a personal choice rather than a responsability.It's your right to have moved on from wc3 modding.

I was inactive for a long time and just felt bad I didn't replied to a guy who asked to remove a hero glow from my model months ago.

What I meant is that it's always nice to ask for permission but if the author is inactive and won't reply it would be ok to do the edit anyway as it's minor and just for functional purpose and not artistic modification.

 

[General Frank]

I meant for using in a wc3 map.Re-releasing/redistributing someone else model on website shouldn't be authorized without permission.
Many old model have their author inactive and won't reply to the users anyway.As for modeler having responsability over model they release is a personal choice rather than a responsability.It's your right to have moved on from wc3 modding.

I was inactive for a long time and just felt bad I didn't replied to a guy who asked to remove a hero glow from my model months ago.

What I meant is that it's always nice to ask for permission but if the author is inactive and won't reply it would be ok to do the edit anyway as it's minor and just for functional purpose and not artistic modification.

That's what I've written in my first paragraph. We need to form a coalition of modders somehow.

 

[HammerFist132]

Callahan, I agree with you, personaly I am fine if someone dits things about my models as long if it is for his own project and if I get credits.

You may want to add
Removing weapons.

 

[UgoUgo]

I am fine if people made minor edits on my models if proper credits are given.

 

[takakenji]

i completely agree, as long as original credits are still given to the model maker

i've recently downloaded a bunch of older models for my map. they have a lot of clipping and texture problems, so i fixed them

 

[Kyrbi0]

Imo some kind model editing shouldn't require Author's permission.
...
What do you think as a modeler?Would you be upset if someone edit your model in that way?

This is a really interesting & pertinent discussion, not only to Wc3 Modding, but for all in creative fields & especially when dependent on other creator's.

At least, it's something *I've* wondered about & had to deal with quite often. First of all, there's the ethicality (sp?, lol) of using & editing other creative works for your own purposes. How much (editing) is too much? What is acceptable? Callahan does well to open up the discussion & propose some thoughts.

Then also, the argument of convenience in contacting the original author. How easy is it to get a hold of them? Obviously, if they are actively posting here on the same site, it makes sense to at least ask them. But what if they're on another site? Or Less-active, or inactive? Or completely gone from the Internet entirely? Etc.

(speaking of which, anybody (esp. Callahan) know where Mc! got to? He was active both here and mainly at Wc3C, and there's a few important things it'd be great to see him fix/finish... I hear he's modding Civ5 now.)

I'm glad to see that most modellers seem OK with the idea of people editing their stuff, given proper crediting & not re-distributing. Keep this going.

 

[GhostThruster]

theres no way im asking every resource owner whether i can edit their resource or not, especially considering it is for personal use within a map, and the author is still credited. even if its not allowed, the moderators cudnt stop me from uploading my map onto epicwar etc.

 

[General Frank]

theres no way im asking every resource owner whether i can edit their resource or not, especially considering it is for personal use within a map, and the author is still credited. even if its not allowed, the moderators cudnt stop me from uploading my map onto epicwar etc.

They should not stop you, but I guess it makes people feel better and more part of the community.

 

[Kyrbi0]

They should not stop you, but I guess it makes people feel better and more part of the community.

That's interesting; I would've thought you to be one of those most vehemently defending creator's rights and the need to ask/acquire permission.

theres no way im asking every resource owner whether i can edit their resource or not, especially considering it is for personal use within a map, and the author is still credited. even if its not allowed, the moderators cudnt stop me from uploading my map onto epicwar etc.

No one can truly "stop" you. But it can be seen as a matter of respect to ask for permission, even if you don't think they'll mind.

 

[General Frank]

That's interesting; I would've thought you to be one of those most vehemently defending creator's rights and the need to ask/acquire permission.


No one can truly "stop" you. But it can be seen as a matter of respect to ask for permission, even if you don't think they'll mind.

That's what I always meant to say.
It is totally fine if you ask for permission and then edit the model.

 

[GhostThruster]

its totally fine to edit a model for personal use because
a) what if they are inactive? does that mean only active users gain 'respect'?
b) there isn't any illegality, its all a matter of honour. its respectful enough to credit them. its unrealistic to not allow mappers to edit ur models, which uve uploaded freely on a public website for the modding of a 10 year old game.
c) its disrespectful to the mapper to not allow them simple edits whilst still crediting you.
d) uve pretty much donated ur assets to this site. the only right u really have per the site's rules is credits and the option to delete ur assets.

im not against crediting; i always credit every resource i use. i just think it unfair for mappers to ask the owner of every resource for the ability to edit, especially if its minor things like recolours, portraits, calculating extents.

 

[General Frank]

its totally fine to edit a model for personal use because
a) what if they are inactive? does that mean only active users gain 'respect'?
b) there isn't any illegality, its all a matter of honour. its respectful enough to credit them. its unrealistic to not allow mappers to edit ur models, which uve uploaded freely on a public website for the modding of a 10 year old game.
c) its disrespectful to the mapper to not allow them simple edits whilst still crediting you.
d) uve pretty much donated ur assets to this site. the only right u really have per the site's rules is credits and the option to delete ur assets.

im not against crediting; i always credit every resource i use. i just think it unfair for mappers to ask the owner of every resource for the ability to edit, especially if its minor things like recolours, portraits, calculating extents.

I completely agree completely here.
But asking costs nothing. And it is really about honour.