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Just how Powerful is your Computer?

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It's fun to see that most peoples CPU are overpowered compared to their GPU. For gaming that is.

Well most of those PCs arent built for gaming. But then again, GPUs are the components that become obsolete the fastest. Heck, even my 660 is a bit weak for 3770k, but if you were following the hardware scene at the time. you'd notice that 7th series came out within less than three months from the launch of "gtx650ti boost", which was a bit shocking, though the GPU wars were heating up at the time.
 
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yeah, people seem to be always buying overpowered CPUs for their needs...

Well it dictates the upgradeability of the PC. Upgrading the CPU usually ends up in buying a new motherboard (because intel sockets are generation deppendant while amd sockets vary deppending on the powerdraw). And in case of older PCs, that used DDR2 memory, that would require buying a new set of ram memory. So buying a powerful CPU now, usually ends up in your PC lasting longer. Heck, few months ago I was using my old Q6600/4gb of DDR2/GT9600, the only reason I replaced it was because of the motherboard that didnt allow me to overclock my CPU and squezee a couple of more years out of it (because the CPU bottlenecked the GTX 660, due to it's low speed 2.4Ghz).
Heck even the first generation i7s hold up to today's cpus.
 
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but still, I got new CPU maybe 1,5 years ago(hopefully :D) and cost me around 80€, the GPU cost 50€ alone, and modern GPU's, that have power cost like 150+, and again, I have no income, and we are having some financial problems currently, so we dont have money for new equipment, and I have to do with what I have now :/
 
My notebook from years ago (and my only form or a portable PC (a lot of minor things keep on breaking)). ;_;
 

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Level 15
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windows 8 on 1 GB ram, 1.66 GHz device? was that pre-installed?

Windows 8 is technically speaking a much superior OS to windows 7 (lower recourse consumption, shorter boot times, new features like UEFI boot, etc) , but it's hybrid touch/desktop interface is an utter disaster and I hope they allow the users to somehow switch back to the old interface in the near future or I'll skip win8 completely and move on to Win9 or some linux distro.
 
Well it dictates the upgradeability of the PC.

or the fact that people just buy what's new without even thinking really hard if they really need it... or they're just rich... XD

and wow, Win8 in 1GB RAM... bare minimum.... my friends who has Win8 on 1.5GB RAM are always having memory problems with it

Maggy said:
Intel Core i7 3820K @ 3.80Ghz (4 cores)
NVidia GTX 670 with 4GB of video memory
16GB of DDR3 RAM @ 1600Mhz
2x 3TB Seagate HDDs in RAID 1
Intel X79 something Motherboard
Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit SP1

WOW... how much did it cost?
 
windows 8 on 1 GB ram, 1.66 GHz device? was that pre-installed?
...but it's hybrid touch/desktop interface is an utter disaster and I hope they allow the users to somehow switch back to the old interface in the near future or I'll skip win8 completely and move on to Win9 or some linux distro.

I actually installed it and runs pretty well for the piece of crud it's on.
I actually find w8's GUI a lot more comfortable and flexible.


  • Intel Core i7 3820K @ 3.80Ghz (4 cores)
  • NVidia GTX 670 with 4GB of video memory
  • 16GB of DDR3 RAM @ 1600Mhz
  • 2x 3TB Seagate HDDs in RAID 1
  • Intel X79 something Motherboard
  • Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit SP1

I think I'll rather save some money and stay with my build. xD
 
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  • Intel Core i7 3820K @ 3.80Ghz (4 cores)
  • NVidia GTX 670 with 4GB of video memory
  • 16GB of DDR3 RAM @ 1600Mhz
  • 2x 3TB Seagate HDDs in RAID 1
  • Intel X79 something Motherboard
  • Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit SP1

Planing on getting a 4930K?
Otherwise, havent seen a lot of people using raid 1, but in the end its the read speed that counts.
 
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Well, deppends, at the moment intel cpus have smaller litography (22nm comparing to 32nm), lower power consumption, thus lower thermal output, which also results in them being easier to cool, so in the end they pretty much pay off the difference in price with lower electricity bills.
Advantage of amd is the power/price ratio, but then again their cpus only went up in power consumption during last couple of years (for example am3 - 125w, am3+ 140w, am3+ (for fx 9xxx cpus) has staggering 220w tdp, comparing to that, intel lga1155 has tdp of 95w and even then the most powerful cpu for that socket draws 77w.
From what I've been hearing, Intel CPUs also provide more for the speed. So an Intel @ 3.0 is probably as good as an AMD @ 3.4 or more. Not sure if this is true, but tests seemed to indicate it when I was buying my Dad new parts (went with an Intel Pentium Dual Core).

It seems like Intel is simply the better brand right now, even in budget builds (Intel cost about $10 more when I bought the Pentium).
Although the one area AMD might still be a good choice is budget Quad Cores.
 
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From what I've been hearing, Intel CPUs also provide more for the speed. So an Intel @ 3.0 is probably as good as an AMD @ 3.4 or more. Not sure if this is true, but tests seemed to indicate it when I was buying my Dad new parts (went with an Intel Pentium Dual Core).

It seems like Intel is simply the better brand right now, even in budget builds (Intel cost about $10 more when I bought the Pentium).
Although the one area AMD might still be a good choice is budget Quad Cores.

Yes, that is true. Size of the CPU litography is probably the most significant factor. Just look at FX9590 (32nm, 4.7 - 5.0ghz), that thing has tdp (thermal output, not to be confused with powerdraw) of 220w but barely matches up to 3770k (3.5 - 3.9 22nm), which has the tdp of 77w. http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i7-3770K-vs-AMD-FX-9590
Sidenote, fx9590 had a price of 999$ on launch, but it was lowered later when it fell short to i7s.
 
Wow, too many people quoting my build ;~;

It cost me around $4000 if we include the $500 23-inch Eizo monitor ;~;

Not planning on upgrading it for the time being ;~;

At most, I'd add a 128GB SSD to keep all my hot files ;~;

I have the RAID 1 because my greatest nightmare is losing my files to hardware failure ;~;

;~;
 
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I just find using X79 mobos with 3820 and 4820 somewhat unusual, since LGA2011 was mostly made for hexacore CPUs. Since Z77 + 3770K and Z87 + 4770K outperform both.

Havent heard of anyone loosing data on Raid 0 (kinda depends on the HDDs, WD Reds apparently perform the best and those HDDs for security footage due to improved reliability), but the possibility of it is scary enough.
 
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http://ark.intel.com/compare/65523,33924,29765

To be honest I dont really know much about inner working of the processors, but just enough to know which one to suggest. (Mostly from discussions on hardware forums, but topics there often turn into fanboy wars oh and lets not forget google, atleast 50% of all the hardware stuff I know I found out by googleing, but do not take every result for granted, some of those are utter bollocks)

In the comparison link above, most obvious differences are the Clock speeds, which speak for themselves, but the major factor there is the "lithography", or the size of the transistors in the CPU. Smaller transistors mean a more efficient CPU, lower thermal output (TDP) and better computing performance per core. So as you go trough those 65nm, 45nm and 22nm CPUs, the improvements are much larger than mere speed increases (though they do help too).
Lower TDP means that CPU is easier to cool and thus can be overclocked further.

Another thing, the reason only 3770K has ram memory limitation( 32Gb) is because the Memory controler in embedded into newer Intel CPUs, while in past IMC was integrated into motherboards.

Here are some benchmarks: http://www.cpubenchmark.net/common_cpus.html
Q6600: 2974
Q9550: 4068
3770K: 9617

So as seen above, my upgrade from Q6600 to 3770K resulted in more than three times higher computational power (3770K when overclocked goes even further).
Personally I avoid using Passmark benchmarks because they kinda favour AMD CPUs (but they are fine when comparing AMD to AMD and Intel to Intel), so when comparing Intel and AMD CPUs, avoid passmark, and check 3DMark online results archive (take note if its a overclocked CPU).

Otherwise, if you're interested in how the CPU actually works (personally never got around to it), I cant help you there. Some experienced programmers might and then again, there's google.

For CPU cache memory, only thing I know that its purpose is similar to ram (lower the access times) but its much smaller and has crazy fast transfer rates. So more the better, buts not as significant as the clock speed and transistor size.
 
The processor cache is really important.

Memory accesses are usually pretty slow (Not as slow as HDD reads), so the cache is nice to have.

When you're manipulating data contiguous in memory, performance will be pretty darn good because of the reduced number of cache misses. You'd be using those 64 byte cache lines efficiently and your code would have to do way less memory accesses. This is why a contiguous array is usually more efficient than a linked list.
 
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http://ark.intel.com/compare/65523,33924,29765

To be honest I dont really know much about inner working of the processors, but just enough to know which one to suggest. (Mostly from discussions on hardware forums, but topics there often turn into fanboy wars oh and lets not forget google, atleast 50% of all the hardware stuff I know I found out by googleing, but do not take every result for granted, some of those are utter bollocks)

In the comparison link above, most obvious differences are the Clock speeds, which speak for themselves, but the major factor there is the "lithography", or the size of the transistors in the CPU. Smaller transistors mean a more efficient CPU, lower thermal output (TDP) and better computing performance per core. So as you go trough those 65nm, 45nm and 22nm CPUs, the improvements are much larger than mere speed increases (though they do help too).
Lower TDP means that CPU is easier to cool and thus can be overclocked further.

Another thing, the reason only 3770K has ram memory limitation( 32Gb) is because the Memory controler in embedded into newer Intel CPUs, while in past IMC was integrated into motherboards.

Here are some benchmarks: http://www.cpubenchmark.net/common_cpus.html
Q6600: 2974
Q9550: 4068
3770K: 9617

So as seen above, my upgrade from Q6600 to 3770K resulted in more than three times higher computational power (3770K when overclocked goes even further).
Personally I avoid using Passmark benchmarks because they kinda favour AMD CPUs (but they are fine when comparing AMD to AMD and Intel to Intel), so when comparing Intel and AMD CPUs, avoid passmark, and check 3DMark online results archive (take note if its a overclocked CPU).

Otherwise, if you're interested in how the CPU actually works (personally never got around to it), I cant help you there. Some experienced programmers might and then again, there's google.

For CPU cache memory, only thing I know that its purpose is similar to ram (lower the access times) but its much smaller and has crazy fast transfer rates. So more the better, buts not as significant as the clock speed and transistor size.

have a read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megahertz_myth

there was a Pentium I believe with 4 GHz, which didnt have nearly enough power to like 2.6 GHz newer generation, so clock rate is not very good meter

another example is: AMD fx 9300 vs Intel i7-4770; AMD has 5.2 GHz and has lower overall performance than i7-4770 which runs at 3.8 GHz

as you said, the main difference is the lithography, AMD is stuck to 32 nm, whereas Intel uses 22 nm together with tri-gate technology, and also Intel's CPUs are made for as low power usage as possible, so the AMD has TDP of around 230 W(lol) while i7-4770 has standard 84W

if you are going to buy new CPU, look at multiple factors, try finding some benchmarking results to see real power, check clock rate but dont rely on it, FSB speed may be important, check Cache size

The processor cache is really important.

Memory accesses are usually pretty slow (Not as slow as HDD reads), so the cache is nice to have.

When you're manipulating data contiguous in memory, performance will be pretty darn good because of the reduced number of cache misses. You'd be using those 64 byte cache lines efficiently and your code would have to do way less memory accesses. This is why a contiguous array is usually more efficient than a linked list.

if cache was that important, why would people migrate to 64 bit architectures, when you can physically fit 1/2 of the data into cache in 64 bit OS compared to 32 bit one

also, if it is so important, why wont you buy AMD, even my AMD has 4 MB L2 cache, whereas yours only has 1 MB(The shared is the same, 8 MB)

@mag: I couldnt resist :D
 
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Velm, you know a lot about this stuff. =O

Could you tell me what the differences are between, like, the Q660 and the Q950? I'd like to understand these things better.
Go ask VGsatomi, and make him come back to the computer section. Please.
 

Dr Super Good

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In the comparison link above, most obvious differences are the Clock speeds, which speak for themselves, but the major factor there is the "lithography", or the size of the transistors in the CPU. Smaller transistors mean a more efficient CPU, lower thermal output (TDP) and better computing performance per core. So as you go trough those 65nm, 45nm and 22nm CPUs, the improvements are much larger than mere speed increases (though they do help too).
Smaller transistors mean a more efficient CPU
Yeh no. Smaller brings in new problems now. If you half the size you do not quarter the power consumption and in cases such as connections you actually increase power consumption as the resistance per square increases. The end result is that with 20nm fab you could easily make a piece of silicon that will compute stuff at insane rates but consume >400 watts of power and last a few seconds.

Actual computation performance is not really increasing as fab size decreases. It used to but then kind of capped out around 3-4 GHz. This is because it is not possible to reliably produce devices that run at such high clock rates. Parasitic capacitance is just one of the problems with high clock speeds and will result in huge power consumption and possible signal loss. Performance comes with new designs, some of which need the extra transistor count that smaller fabs give. Adding 50% more cache using the saved area might improve processor performance >20% for some tasks yet the actual core performance could remain the same. Adding extra ALUs might cause you to lower the clock speed slightly yet could allow the processor to execute independent instructions faster.

Especially with intel, you will find a lot of their CPUs have a lot of built in GPU stuff in them instead of making the processors more powerful. Especially for laptops with no GPU this can greatly improve performance as CPUs are not really suited for high speed graphics.

Also just because intel and AMD have the same size of fab (technology) does not make them the same. Intel might have a larger node at the time but which supports processes AMD's smaller node does not which allows Intel to do stuff AMD cannot and vica versa.

there was a Pentium I believe with 4 GHz, which didnt have nearly enough power to like 2.6 GHz newer generation, so clock rate is not very good meter
Not possible. Pentium 1 was within the 100MHz range. You must be thinking of a Pentium 4 (>600 MHz to multi GHz).

Clock speed tells you how complicated the logic inside it is. Something running at 3 GHz probably has more complex combinational logic than something running at 6 GHz as the critical path must be smaller for the 6 GHz.

Currently developers like the RISC approach which drives clock speed up and combinational complexity down. Also better supports pipelining. However that is not to say that CISC is bad, in the future we might only have 1-2 GHz processors that are very energy efficient but can literally absorb entire functions in parallel.

if cache was that important, why would people migrate to 64 bit architectures, when you can physically fit 1/2 of the data into cache in 64 bit OS compared to 32 bit one

also, if it is so important, why wont you buy AMD, even my AMD has 4 MB L2 cache, whereas yours only has 1 MB(The shared is the same, 8 MB)
Memory is so slow that the processor would starve without a cache. By the time 1 read from memory completes you are looking at 100s of processor cycles passing where it can do nothing but idle. Yes we have DDR3 which is a ton faster than DDR1 all those years ago, but it is not the same order faster as the Pentium 4s compared with I7.

This is where cache plays an important part. Most programs have a very small highly active set with a much larger (orders larger) slightly active set. An example would be an iterative function since in 1000 clock cycles the code will be executed dozens of times. Cache is memory close to the processor that can be accessed at near processor speeds. Where as a read from memory may take >100 clock cycles, a read from L3/4 cache might take 1-2 clock cycles. By keeping such an iterative function code in cache it will save a lot of clock cycles spent waiting for memory. It does not just apply to code, any data that is manipulated a lot will benefit from caching. Caching is also done in pages so will befit from data localization (accessing the next index of an array would be instant as it will likely already be in the cache from importing the previous index).

So why use x86-64 bits if memory is a big bottleneck? Well x86-64 does not only add support for larger address sizes. It adds a whole lot of useful features.
Positive
Larger address sizes allow more memory to be indexed.
Larger registers allow more fast data manipulation as less loading and unloading to memory is required.
More registers allow more fast data manipulation as less loading and unloading to memory is required.
New instructions are provided for advanced data manipulation using the new registers for previously impossible register operations.
Highly streamlined for modern code execution.
Still can execute 32 bit compiled code with simple kernel level changes.
Negative
Larger addresses means larger instruction sizes so code is less memory efficient and more memory bandwidth dependant.
Larger addresses means more memory used to store pointers so less memory efficient.
No 16 bit backwards compatibility support (64 bit booted processors cannot easily switch to only 16 bit instructions like 32 bit mode can).

That said these negatives can be diminished. Larger caches means that the extra code size is less important. Just because it can address up to 64 bits does not mean it has to since few systems (none) have that much memory. As such most OS will use more like a 40bit addressing mode to avoid excess bloat that 64 bits would bring while still supporting 1024 gigabytes of memory.

The time lost and memory often is easily made up by the new capabilities that the instruction set provides. For a x86 (32 bit) platform to manipulate a long (64 bit) integer it needs to use 2 registers and multiple instructions depending on the desired result. Imagine adding 2 longs, that is suddenly 4 registers and multiple add instruction calls. In x86-64 you could load each long into a single register and then perform addition on both with a single instruction call. This is a saving of many instructions which more than compensates the time and space lost to have longer addresses.
 
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Intel had the idea of making a 10Ghz pentium CPU, but the thermal output proved to be too much for conventional coolers. Heck people have hard time reaching 7Ghz with 3770k with liquid nitrogen cooling.

And about transistor sizes, it's kinda true, because both Ivy Bridge and Haswell CPUs are sensitive to voltage increases, in a way that temperature can increase by 20% if you raise the voltage from 1.2V to 1.3V.
But then again, with smaller transistors they require less power, power consumption went down as well as core voltage.
 

Dr Super Good

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if you raise the voltage from 1.2V to 1.3V.
Yes that is because the switching current increases as voltage does.

But then again, with smaller transistors they require less power, power consumption went down as well as core voltage.
Except bring other design problems such as energy density increases, worse parasitic capacitances and less tolerance (since margins decrease).
 
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Yes that is because the switching current increases as voltage does.
Yes but the temperature jumps were significantly lower on older generations.

Except bring other design problems such as energy density increases, worse parasitic capacitances and less tolerance (since margins decrease).

Agreed, that is what makes me wonder how are they going to pull of 5nm structure. (They are opening a 14nm fabrication facility in US this year, but desktop 14nm CPUs wont come out soon)
 
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it will take few years to stabilize 14 nm transistors and find a way to make millions of them daily, the same with 22 nm(Announced on 2002, Intel started using it in 2011, because they couldnt solve how to mass produce them)
 
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it will take few years to stabilize 14 nm transistors and find a way to make millions of them daily, the same with 22 nm(Announced on 2002, Intel started using it in 2011, because they couldnt solve how to mass produce them)

14nm is ready, it will be used for ARM devices first.
 
My humble set-up, might upgrade sometime next year:

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CPU overclocked to 4.2 GHz, not that it makes a huge difference.
I have 2 audio set-ups, the Asus Xonar does the Dolby Surround 5.1.
The onboard S/PDIF outputs to my DAC + tube amp for my AKG K701 or Beyerdynamic DT880. The second set-up is used mainly for music through Winamp ASIO plugin.

Network wise, I'm on 150Mbps for 60 bucks/month, waiting to upgrade to 1Gbps later this year.

This build was initially meant for livestreaming games, but now I use it mainly for photo-editing -_-
 

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Upgrade that? Really? Already seems over the top for photo editing! :p
Not gonna lie, I'm just jealous.
 
yeah seriously, it's far more than enough for photo editing... builds like that are normally seen in developer computers... XD...

I'm a web developer as well :p

Except I don't run any development tools in my home PC!

In any case, the additional processing power is nice when I do batch on camera RAW files.
The bottleneck is the storage medium, which I usually use my SSD as a temporary place to work on.

As for upgrade, I can't exactly run a lot of games now on 2560x1440 max settings, it makes me sad.
The GPU needs to be replaced. This computer was built when I was running 1920x1080.
 
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As for upgrade, I can't exactly run a lot of games now on 2560x1440 max settings, it makes me sad.
The GPU needs to be replaced. This computer was built when I was running 1920x1080.
I have yet to witness games run on 2560. Something on my bucket list for this year.
 
Yeah gaming above 1080p usually requires multiple GPUs :) Even my GPU is better than yours anyway :p

I don't like to run multiple GPUs, and I can't since my PCI-E is taken up by the sound card :p.

Which leaves me the only option of going for a super powerful 1 GPU.

And nah I'm definitely not going to ditch my screen either :p.
 
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