Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by The_wand_mirror, Jun 5, 2009.
So give a better definition.
Doesn't say anything about the MLO.
The wand, untill you can find solid proof to show us about that kind of satanism that your talking about, I say your simply inventing it >.>
Hakeem: No, I live for myself, AND people that mean something to me.
Euh, which one you mean then.
The one that the thread is about?
Yeah, getting really religious people all riled up is hilarious. They get SO FUCKING PISSED. ^^
Satanism can mean either a general disregard for values and morality thus leading to an exciting life of abusing people, alcohol, sex and rock'n'roll, shouting at nuns and worhsipping a goat "for fun" ; from this comes satanism as a definition of pure free will and freedom, out from the alienating frontiers of "respect", "morality" and other abstract concepts ; it can also mean a theological approach that believes in god as in satan (not as a goat and a bearded grandpa but more as philosophical concepts) and sides with satan, for example because they consider the coming of christ as a loss of power and a proof of weakness ; then, some "satanists" believe in a "satan" that is entropy and a force that leads to the destruction and deviation of anything ; finally you have the LaVey satanism which is some kind of ultraliberal (in the economic sense) theory applied to every aspect of life, a kind of satanism that especially sucks if you ask me. All of those are elitist in some extent. There is also the mass media satanism of marilyn manson fanboys, that one could call "another face of stupidity" without mistaking much.
That is my opinion of course.
i can simply tell you what the guy was trying to tell you... hes non religious...
but technically you cant be non religious because if you believe that anything on this world truly is there and exists, then you would have to believe that something somewhere somehow created it. so technically everyone in this world believes that a god created this world, because some how all this shit had to get here... that is unless that you dont believe anything in this world exist and well if you dont believe anything in this world exists you are truly a retard. (the big bang has been scientifically proven false btw)
I don't believe God made anything, and I don't even believe in Big Bang. What I believe in, is that our knowledge of physics and chemistry so far is LACKING, thus why we can't explain shit. We try to reach stars, yet we don't know what is under fucking water. We create shit religious theories so we have a backup for our lack of goddamn knowledge.
False, a non-christian can be a muslim, hindu, or other religion.
This is also false, since you can repent your sins...
Also, I consider the 10 commandments more of guidelines to life. Imagine if the world respected the words of God. An almost perfect world, living in peace. Isn't [a part of] humanity striving to achieve this? I think the Apocalypse is the moment when humanity respects the word of God, a sinless, fresh world.
Not really, if he doesn't worship god, he can worship nature or bunnies or other shit, like I said some lines ago.
And also, satanism can be considered the denial of god. Oh and also, satan isn't much of a person, satan is also a feeling and state of being.
And I think that MAN can be more evil than Satan. Seriously now.
Didn't read all of this, but I can say:
Now really!? People, before you start talking and talking and talking get to know some general information on religiosity.
Ever heard of the NUMEROUS religions present in this world?
I'm gonna count only some of the religions that would sound familiar to you other than Christianity:
And these are only the usually known ones... there are still many others.
So if someone doesn't believe in Christianity it doesn't mean that he's an Atheist.
Even those who don't believe in God don't necessarily have to be Atheists, as some religions don't believe in God whom many religions believe in.
That who is an Atheist is that who has no religious beliefs of any kind.
Being an Atheist has nothing to do with being a Satanist, as for being a Satanist you're believing in something.
Religiosity is a very huge topic, so I think reading or watching something on the topic before judging and commenting would be smart of you.
I believe this fellow was speaking exclusively in very loose, and general terms, since Christianity's interpretation of Satan, and Christianity is at this moment, and time...the religion opposing the satanic faiths in question.
Hinduism, Buddhism, and the other Eastern faiths do not have a satanic figure if I recall correctly, being based entirely at its root on the cyclical phases of nature, applying material, and natural physics to a spiritual concept.
Islam, and Judaism have satanic figures:
Satan in Islam is named Iblis, of which I am not familiar with Islam's view on Angels, or Heavenly originated beings.
Satan in Judaism being the Accuser, the one who goes before God and says:
"Behold this man, if you were not so kind to him, he would surely become depraved and truly evil."
Satan according to Christian belief, which in addition to his role as an Accuser of man, he is also a tempter of spirits, and a corrupter, a being (fallen angel, of which many traditions say he was a Cherub [a warrior angel]) who fell from his high place and accuses mankind, a malevolent force that gave birth to, and represents, all that has been perverted, or tainted, from its original neutral, perfectly devised, and 'good' state.
He is not all powerful, and is not a god. He is a fallen servant, a being that is the avatar and source of evil, since in the primal beginnings, it was he who first became evil.
Evil coming from within himself: His pride, which lead to greed, which lead to rebellion against God, and in that rebellion he perverted God's creations to his own ends, and sought to take the throne of God, to be a god above God, with mankind to worship him instead (since he believes himself to be higher than God).
And having tainted mankind, and caused them to sin, perverting them, and assuring that no man born afterwards could be sinless, in essence, 'owned' mankind. And mankind now bound to sin, became embroiled in a war with God, becoming pawns for the malevolent force that Satan had become.
In their constant sinful natures, they sentenced themselves to death. Crimes against God and humanity committed on a daily basis, and even the 'littlest' sins have a resounding impact in the strands of time.
A white lie seems like a tiny drop, until it ripples so far outward, those ripples moving little leaves, and causing problems that echo into eternity...take into account the hundreds of white lies we tell every day...That gets the point across...
And so in order to pardon mankind of their sins and clean them, they had to be bought back, and since the price for a life is another life, and billions of lives in a state of being for sale, it required a sacrifice of equal measure to the multitude.
An angel's life would not suffice, an angel is a servant. The life of a man who has sinned is already owned, tainted, and cannot buy the lives of his fellow slaves. But the life of a God met the bill, and that is where Christ makes his debut.
Satanism: at its loosest, and most basic definition is the act of rejecting the side of God in favour of those who war against him. IE: choosing the side that wants to strike at God, or pervert his creations, or to harm his servants/children.
More specifically, Satanism is the worship, reverence, or adoration of Satan as a concept, literal being, or as an ideal.
Satanic: anything relating to Satan, demonic entities in Abrahamic theology, or perhaps, something similar to those concepts.
(Slaneesh, Khorne, and Horus, from Warhammer could be considered "satantic" images, or ideas)
On the issue of Atheism, and Satanism.
Atheists, and Agnostics are neutral countries in a war of empires. Not to say they are not effected, or that they are safe...but they are not combatants in a Satanic, or Godly fashion. Unless perhaps they are being guided towards some end unknowingly, by one side or the other. Either guided for the greater good, or for the greater perversion. This however, does not exclude Atheism, or Agnosticism from becoming third party war-bearers and attacking either side.
As for my personal thoughts...
I don't know why anyone would seek to worship a malevolent being, much less a servant who became malevolent, for the mere sake of being rebellious for rebellion's sake, a servant who is not all powerful by any means, the weaker combatant in every sense of the word.
Purposeful rebellion against "restrictions" put in place for the good of humanity, and for the reasons of health, restrictions that are just, is not conducive to building a legacy, or maintaining your bloodline or the health of it. Neither is it good for a benevolent and worthwhile social status, or for the honour of your family and person. And this isn't even taking into account the Spiritual aspects of such a choice.
Being rebellious, and going into a room and touching a highly dangerous electrical current, just because a sign says 'don't enter, and don't touch' and doing so simply because you don't want to 'be told what to do' or be 'restricted', is a dumb idea.
You can't have kids, raise them, pass on your legacy, if you are dead...
You also can't enjoy life to its fullest, if you are dead. Sure you felt really alive for that brief moment you were being shocked and burned alive inside...but you didn't feel alive for long...and probably felt absolutely nothing shortly after....being dead...
As for the spiritual aspect...that's rather obvious...
Elenai, dear, Elenai, friend, pal, buddy, wanna-be non-human companion..
Why can't you just summarize the stuff?
*Opens another free beer*
Wow Elenai! I'm shocked... you have some good general information!
And I don't know A LOT on the topic, but considering what I know, what you said is totally right...
Because people hate my metaphors.
"Purposeful rebellion against "restrictions" put in place for the good of humanity, and for the reasons of health, restrictions that are just, is not conducive to building a legacy, or maintaining your bloodline or the health of it. Neither is it good for a benevolent and worthwhile social status, or for the honour of your family and person. And this isn't even taking into account the Spiritual aspects of such a choice."
That is on a global and long point of view. In a lifetime and from an individual point of view, even those concepts are abstract.
"You can't have kids, raise them, pass on your legacy, if you are dead..."
It's not a goal in itself, taking my example, I don't plan to have children for various reasons. And satanism doesn't lead to death, is it, so I take it the rest of your post was more likely a joke. One thing's sure, life leads to death. And one thing I believe, there's nothing after death.
"I don't know why anyone would seek to worship a malevolent being, much less a servant who became malevolent, for the mere sake of being rebellious for rebellion's sake, a servant who is not all powerful by any means, the weaker combatant in every sense of the word."
First, it might be more challenging to follow the hard way.
"Was there not an inconceivable loss of knowledge at Bethlehem? Christ's abasement, His subjecting Himself to the laws of human birth and growth and to the lowliness of fallen human nature... Did the Son remain the transcendent Logos, is there not a radical and fatal discontinuity between the consciousness of the transcendent Logos and the secular Jesus?" (excerpt from a text probably written by the "deathspell omega" band, that I find especially interesting).
Add to this the tone switch from the old to the new testament, who is this God that allows his word to be modified and softened?
In short, I'm not for a fantasy litterature review of christianity.
The only theist view that almost convinced me, long ago, was "god is the discussion, god is the word". Now that I've read Burroughs and developped my thoughts, it seems pretty obvious to me that "word" is mankind's worst enemy, devious twist and curse. Yet, I am not pretending to handle perfectly such theories since they're not mine and I didn't have the time yet to explore them thoroughly.
"Slaneesh, Khorne, and Horus, from Warhammer could be considered "satantic" images, or ideas"
What about Nurgle and Tzeentch? bwahaha.
"Satanism is a term that refers to a number of related belief systems. Their commonality is that they all feature the veneration or admiration of Satan or similar figures."
exactly as I said.
Worship is not the same as veneration, or admiration.
Also, that statement may be overstating it a tad bit, because later on in the page it says:
Also of relevance:
It would seem one does not need to worship Satan to be a Satanist.
You can live in the moment only so much. You still need to pick up your head and look down the horizon to see where you are stepping, and whether or not it will lead you off a cliff.
Basically, it is indeed the long term. But the a-morality, and free use of dangerous life style choices may seem fun at first, but in the end it can destroy your body and leave you in a very sorry state that you yourself made.
The problem with living entirely in the moment, is that it is full of regret when you reach the end, and know your decisions could have been made better if you looked forward just a little.
Satanism is keen on living in the moment it would seem, and dangerously in the moment.
It would be a very short life, if it was not done carefully. Which...inevitably requires restrictions.
The purpose of humanity subtracting the spiritual nature of his ways is to procreate. Satanism may not lead to death, but it opens to doors to dangerous attitudes, life without restriction, do as you please, such things that can lead inevitably to death.
Carelessness, and idiocy, breeds destruction. If you don't look out for the warning signs, you will crash. If you crash into a load of on coming traffic, there is a high chance of dying in said crash, and dying young, and without having lived out a full life.
Life leads to death, but a careful life reasonably balanced with risk, and restriction, is usually full and vibrant, honoured, and loved.
Life that is reckless and wild without some measure of safety, or restrictions, is usually short, and pitiful. Who in benevolent society would want to go to a satanist's funeral?
As for nothing after death, all the more reason to live life to its fullest, and longest. Which requires patience, discipline, and a measure of restraint.
A satanists life style, of abusing the limits on the pleasures of life, can open him or her to all manner of disease, and sickness, and painful death. Which leads back to procreation as mankind's base purpose as an animal.
You can't procreate, if you are dead. You shouldn't procreate if you have AIDS.
On the spiritual side of things: I believe there is life after death. But that does not mean I should be careless and die until I've lived out a mortal life. Likewise, I'd prefer Heaven's abode, over Satan's prison out of personal opinion.
Who is this God that allows mankind to live with free will, despite being fallen? Who is this God, who joins them in the crowd to live in their point of view? It is an understanding God that does so. The fatal discontinuity between Christ's divine, and human nature, is simply that God can manifest himself however he pleases and limit himself as he will, while still maintaining his powers. The point of wrapping himself in flesh, being one of reaching out to man, before he must ascend again to his Godly manifestations.
"I can limit my powers as Off-Topic moderator, but I can easily remove such limits. I could ask for my moderator icon to be hidden so that I can live life as a peon, but in the end I must still don the raider for my moderator purposes."
Mankind's worst enemy is not the curse that he brought upon himself, or the twists that he allowed to be done to him. But it is instead he who wants to keep the cure for the Curse out of the hands of those who need it, and he who twists even further for his own selfish ends. This is what I believe so far, personally, I too am not a theologian.
Separate names with a comma.