I'm a mini-mod! Yipii...

[Kwah]

Ahh! Dusk is taking over the site!

---

But, really I'm glad to see the resource section moving along.

 

[Linaze]

You should all be ashamed of yourselves.

For what, defending our own opinions? If the community believes that the implementation of this was wrong, don't we have as much right as you or Ralle to say so?

 

[~Void~]

I'm also rather offended that people are assuming that I even have the power to do this on the site. Guess what? I don't. Ralle asked me my opinion on something and then he did something on his own that did not correspond to my opinion. The fact that I'm the only person defending Ralle's decision is the only reason I am seeing attacks as a result of his actions. The lot of you are really effective at scaring away people who try to help the site, you know that? You should all be ashamed of yourselves; take the internet serious for a minute and consider that I am trying my damnedest to help out as much as I can, and this is the only kind of response I get from the community.

Very true.

take the internet serious for a minute

ya u lissen 2 him tehi nterwebz iz srs bsns.

 

[Ghan_04]

Seems this has turned into some blamestorming.
As well as a session of, "Let's see what we can criticize about the new decision that WE didn't suggest."

I agree with what Rising_Dusk said above.
And on a related note, neither I nor Ralle nor Rising_Dusk are unmindful of what you all think. Remember that rep addition that we went ahead with just yesterday?
But in the realm of resources, Ralle and Dusk made a decision to make a change. This change is minor enough that it will change very little about the actual function of the section. That's no reason to flip out about it. If you think it was a bad decision, then by all means tell us, but don't be ridiculous about it.

And please keep this thread on topic. I sense a lurking danger that we might get drawn down trails of conversation where we don't need to be. So keep the discussion about the mini-mod changes.

Thank you.

 

[Ash]

Well, open me up a can of worms pls.

Just confirming what I said:

Dusk is not taking over the site - Although himself and ghan have similarities, Dusk is not an asshole.
This system needs work - It's general consensus that it doesn't work as is, and by doing a Labour Government (that is, WE'LL LISTEN BUT DO NOTHING ABOUT IT, PEASANT) it isn't going to please the community, regardless of whether or not this is democratic.
For this system to work, you need to evaluate current moderators too - By promoting 'ones that did their jobs', we'll have a lot more moderators. On a whole, are these really people we want with power in the site?
What the fuck happened to the resource director - Shouldn't this be his job?
What the fuck happened to the resource director?!? - See above.

You may notice I mentioned the last one twice, that is because it is an important point. Take note, important.

P.S I love you too Dusk, it just didn't sound like you <33333

P.P.S don't play that card, Ghan, you know there's plenty of people that'll argue otherwise, until they see something that'll state the opposite

 

[Linaze]

This does make resource approval easier. But it ends there, what little quality remained of the maps of the Hive is now gone. I've seen shit get approved, and i'm serious when i'm saying we'll all see more of it with this recent implementation.

 

[Kwah]

P.S I love you too Dusk, it just didn't sound like you <33333

Fixed.

Anyway, I don't really see anything wrong with the system as it is now (after upgrades). It should work well enough, provided that abuse isn't too strong (I guess we'll see)

 

[Ash]

Fixed.

no, u r doin it wrong.

In both ways, why do you think the system will work? Darn new usah ned 2 be elaboratin moar.

 

[donut3.5]

I was a bit confused on the entire thing, as I got this jumbled up with the whole automatic approval for maps that was being discussed.
To get this clear, all that is happening is giving the users to vote whether it should be approved or not? To me, this seems pretty useless, as that's what we have ratings for. If a user thinks its worth approving, they'll rate it a 3, 4, or 5. If they think it needs more work, then they'll rate it a 1 or 2. Or at least a sensible user would, and in any case, this wont help that at all.
I guess it would be a shame to toss away a system Ralle worked hard on, but if the system is as impractical as I'm seeing it as, I really don't understand the point.

After weighing the sides of both arguments, I am completely neutral, as I don't see this as a positive or negative thing. What I was arguing against was mainly for another issue, so sorry for that mistake.
--donut3.5--

 

[Rising_Dusk]

@ Linaze

This does make resource approval easier. But it ends there, what little quality remained of the maps of the Hive is now gone. I've seen shit get approved, and i'm serious when i'm saying we'll all see more of it with this recent implementation.

Okay, let me run this by you a couple more times. This does not change the way resources are approved. This only changes the way users give reviews of submitted content. Yes, that means that the quality control is still there and that mods still have the final say.

@ Ash

What the fuck happened to the resource director - Shouldn't this be his job?
What the fuck happened to the resource director?!? - See above.

The rest of the staff disagreed with me when I suggested that there exist a resource director in the first place. The rest of the administration is trying to cover the void that everyone except the administration said wasn't necessary to fill. This is what we get for listening to the community. (Frank, for your information, isn't the resource director. Right now one doesn't exist.)

This system needs work - It's general consensus that it doesn't work as is, and by doing a Labour Government (that is, WE'LL LISTEN BUT DO NOTHING ABOUT IT, PEASANT) it isn't going to please the community, regardless of whether or not this is democratic.

Dude, really, the system changes nothing about the way the system ever worked before! Everyone in the other thread in site discussion (that I can't be assed to dig up) came to a consensus that allowing users to review resources was a great idea! We're not even doing that, we're just letting users use some pretty new buttons to give reviews and people are flipping out! I can't think of any way to expand upon this further, man, it really doesn't change anything at all. If you don't follow, I think I'm just going to have to quit before I go nuts.

For this system to work, you need to evaluate current moderators too - By promoting 'ones that did their jobs', we'll have a lot more moderators. On a whole, are these really people we want with power in the site?

Yeap, I said that too. I also said that people should recommend users they want to see promoted to resource moderators in the admin contact forum. Also, it's not a problem for users to be resource moderators. All they do is moderate resources, which really changes nothing about a user's "power" on the site beside that they click another button to change the resource's status from "Pending" to "Approved." Oh, and they get a raider icon too. Sorry?

Also, guys, please stop bashing Ghan. He's trying really hard recently to be more active and help out more once again. You're all good users of the site, and we don't want to have to punish people for flaming the staff, but we'll have to if you don't give us any other options. Respect the fact that we're all trying really hard, please.

 

[Pyritie]

Yeap, I said that too. I also said that people should recommend users they want to see promoted to resource moderators in the admin contact forum. Also, it's not a problem for users to be resource moderators. All they do is moderate resources, which really changes nothing about a user's "power" on the site beside that they click another button to change the resource's status from "Pending" to "Approved." Oh, and they get a raider icon too. Sorry?

Doesn't that also include powers to edit/delete posts, give negrep, and view the mod's lobby?

 

[Rising_Dusk]

Doesn't that also include powers to edit/delete posts, give negrep, and view the mod's lobby?

Yes, but we've trusted resource mods that review resources with that in the past and nothing bad has come of it. Unless you're saying we shouldn't have allowed you to view the forum.

 

[Ash]

Before I reply, why do you keep saying we? You're not a staff member, as far as I can tell, and if you are I'd like to know what role you fulfil within the running of the site, and if you're not I'd like to know why you have access to areas in which I've posted, with confidence, with the idea that it'll be dealt with by the administration and/or staff.

At least get an offical role or something, I don't enjoy it when I get a response from a user as opposed to a higher up, it looks so unprofessional.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash
What the fuck happened to the resource director - Shouldn't this be his job?
What the fuck happened to the resource director?!? - See above.
The rest of the staff disagreed with me when I suggested that there exist a resource director in the first place. The rest of the administration is trying to cover the void that everyone except the administration said wasn't necessary to fill. This is what we get for listening to the community. (Frank, for your information, isn't the resource director. Right now one doesn't exist.)

Whenever we -- by that I mean myself and others -- have talked about it, Rui's always been considered resource director, and when Griffen drafted the director jobs, that's what the development director was; a resource director.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash
This system needs work - It's general consensus that it doesn't work as is, and by doing a Labour Government (that is, WE'LL LISTEN BUT DO NOTHING ABOUT IT, PEASANT) it isn't going to please the community, regardless of whether or not this is democratic.
Dude, really, the system changes nothing about the way the system ever worked before! Everyone in the other thread in site discussion (that I can't be assed to dig up) came to a consensus that allowing users to review resources was a great idea! We're not even doing that, we're just letting users use some pretty new buttons to give reviews and people are flipping out! I can't think of any way to expand upon this further, man, it really doesn't change anything at all. If you don't follow, I think I'm just going to have to quit before I go nuts.

Well don't be asshatish about it, part of the reason this escalated is because myself, and others, read several posts saying users how the power to approve resources, and you'd said nothing -- except 'fuck off, we're not changing it' -- paraphrasing of course -- -- to the contrary. This meant that we believed the hype, as opposed to what it actually was, and thus, a shitstorm was born.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash
For this system to work, you need to evaluate current moderators too - By promoting 'ones that did their jobs', we'll have a lot more moderators. On a whole, are these really people we want with power in the site?
Yeap, I said that too. I also said that people should recommend users they want to see promoted to resource moderators in the admin contact forum. Also, it's not a problem for users to be resource moderators. All they do is moderate resources, which really changes nothing about a user's "power" on the site beside that they click another button to change the resource's status from "Pending" to "Approved." Oh, and they get a raider icon too. Sorry?

Yeah, they only have access to the Mods lobby, the ability to give +/- rep, a heck of a lot more respect, the ability to recommend infractions, are heard more throughout the site, have the power to approve pathetic things and reject things that are good and the ability to review maps (whilst not necessaries being good at it). Come to think of it, you're right. Being a staff member is totally useless, we should abolish Resource Mods and let the userbase do it.

 

[Pyritie]

Whenever we -- by that I mean myself and others -- have talked about it, Rui's always been considered resource director, and when Griffen drafted the director jobs, that's what the development director was; a resource director.

As far as I know, Frank is in charge of Icons, Skins, and Models and Rui is in charge of Maps and Spells. Dunno about Packs.

 

[Verhalthur]

I respect Both Rising_Dusk's and Ralle's decision, but I think that this should only be in place in sections that need help, such as the spells section or the maps section.

In all of the other areas, the mods have been doing their work diligently and efficiently.
There is no overload of pending resources or any problems whatsoever.
This new option is confusing, promoted multiaccounting, and somewhat nullifies the rating option.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

Before I reply, why do you keep saying we? You're not a staff member, as far as I can tell, and if you are I'd like to know what role you fulfil within the running of the site, and if you're not I'd like to know why you have access to areas in which I've posted, with confidence, with the idea that it'll be dealt with by the administration and/or staff.

I am a moderator of the Admin Contact forum at Ralle's request, that's it. I refuse the title and icon, though, since I only have it as an excuse for me to be able to post in the mod lobby and help Ralle explain his stances on topics. I figure since I have it, though, I may as well make the response-time in the admin contact not suck.

Whenever we -- by that I mean myself and others -- have talked about it, Rui's always been considered resource director, and when Griffen drafted the director jobs, that's what the development director was; a resource director.

No one in the staff has ever followed such a definition, so I have a feeling that whatever was proposed by Griffen, you, et al. was not taken verbatim. I find the development director should be in charge of the development categories of the site and not resources. Such a job should be outsourced to one "Resource Director," which would only make sense in my eyes.

Well don't be asshatish about it, part of the reason this escalated is because myself, and others, read several posts saying users how the power to approve resources, and you'd said nothing -- except 'fuck off, we're not changing it' -- paraphrasing of course -- -- to the contrary. This meant that we believed the hype, as opposed to what it actually was, and thus, a shitstorm was born.

I like how you ignore the 99% of my post that says "Hey, this changes nothing guys, stop overreacting" and jump on the part that says tells everyone to deal with it since it's something Ralle did. Ultimately, what you're saying is because you guys make assumptions and jump to conclusions, you started making false accusations and breaking the site rules. Nice of you to be so asshatish about it; your hypocrisy is sure to keep me in line for the future. Really, dude, you've got to consider that you can't just take shits all over threads because you think you know what you're talking about when you don't. Have some dignity. :<

Yeah, they only have access to the Mods lobby, the ability to give +/- rep, a heck of a lot more respect, the ability to recommend infractions, are heard more throughout the site, have the power to approve pathetic things and reject things that are good and the ability to review maps (whilst not necessaries being good at it). Come to think of it, you're right. Being a staff member is totally useless, we should abolish Resource Mods and let the userbase do it.

Actually, abolishing resource mods doesn't sound like a bad idea. We could bump all of our current resource mods to other positions and just let the userbase do everything for resources, with any staff member related to the section having the final say.

 

[Ash]

I like how you ignore the 99% of my post that says "Hey, this changes nothing guys, stop overreacting" and jump on the part that says tells everyone to deal with it since it's something Ralle did. Ultimately, what you're saying is because you guys make assumptions and jump to conclusions, you started making false accusations and breaking the site rules. Nice of you to be so asshatish about it; your hypocrisy is sure to keep me in line for the future. Really, dude, you've got to consider that you can't just take shits all over threads because you think you know what you're talking about when you don't. Have some dignity. :<

That's because noone posted you doing anything decent, because you'd told everyone that the site didn't care.

Actually, abolishing resource mods doesn't sound like a bad idea. We could bump all of our current resource mods to other positions and just let the userbase do everything for resources, with any staff member related to the section having the final say.

~ Septihaosis 4 off topic mod ~

 

[Rising_Dusk]

...because you'd told everyone that the site didn't care.

Man, I said nothing of the sort. I said that it wouldn't be changing, which is the truth regardless of what I do or don't do. You only assumed that's what I meant by what I said, which is what lead to the rest of the crap.

~ Septihaosis 4 off topic mod ~

It's very easy to have a user moderate resources/forums or whatever without having a staff position. If a user really is good at moderating resources, but doesn't represent the site well, then it's not too tough to handle.

 

[Ash]

You tl;dr'd everyone, and told us the site didn't care. No two ways around that one, dusk, and that's why all the shit brewed. It obviously wasn't just me, heck even a mod or two thought the same, and because of that lots of people got the wrong idea.

As for the other point, what if the user doesn't do either well?

 

[Rising_Dusk]

You tl;dr'd everyone, and told us the site didn't care.

Yeah, I did tl;dr it all, but I didn't say the site didn't care. If I wanted to say that, I would have. My frustration with the lack of support was evident, though, but that doesn't mean anything other than exactly that.

As for the other point, what if the user doesn't do either well?

Then they shouldn't have either, obviously. I can't think of anyone currently on the staff that such a case would apply to, though.

 

[Ash]

Yeah, I did tl;dr it all, but I didn't say the site didn't care. If I wanted to say that, I would have. My frustration with the lack of support was evident, though, but that doesn't mean anything other than exactly that.

But, with you being 'ralle's rep', that's the way it comes across.

Then they shouldn't have either, obviously. I can't think of anyone currently on the staff that such a case would apply to, though.

Nor can I, but I can think of some staff members that are more quantity than quality, as per say.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

But, with you being 'ralle's rep', that's the way it comes across.

Well, I can tell you what I meant and what I didn't mean. If you and others took it the wrong way and think it's my fault, I can do nothing but tell you what I really meant and apologize for the confusion. It certainly was not my intention.

Nor can I, but I can think of some staff members that are more quantity than quality, as per say.

Eh, the mix is what makes the Hive the Hive. We can't preach 100% quality and no quantity, otherwise we'd have to obliterate half the resource section.

 

[~Void~]

The rest of the administration is trying to cover the void that everyone except the administration said wasn't necessary to fill

IT'S A SIGN!

But seriously, all stupidity and jokes aside...well... that doesn't leave us with much, does it?

 

[Rising_Dusk]

But all stupidity and jokes aside, ...well... that doesn't leave us with much, does it?

It should leave you with the knowledge that I am trying my hardest to guide the staff into a manageable situation and that it'll all work itself out eventually. Have a little faith, I'll see it through or get exiled trying.

 

[Mecheon]

Actually, abolishing resource mods doesn't sound like a bad idea. We could bump all of our current resource mods to other positions and just let the userbase do everything for resources, with any staff member related to the section having the final say.

Nah. People are asses and I prefer having moderators around to kick their asses when they try to get away with assholery. Which is why I'm a little peeved at Rui at the moment and the whole demodding all the map moderator business he had going on, especially considering that section is still a godawful hellhole and that removing the people who kept order there is quite honestly the worst solution to the damned problem in the first place

Eh, the mix is what makes the Hive the Hive. We can't preach 100% quality and no quantity, otherwise we'd have to obliterate half the resource section.

We could preach about 75% quality though, and still have some quantity


Anywho, my opinion on this whole kerfuffle? I say I want to see what becomes of it honestly. If you people manage to make it work well, I suppose we'll let it stay. Of course, you're inevitably going to break it and make us regret putting it in ANYWAY, so just enjoy it while its here I guess

 

[Gilles]

I'd just like to point out that there as a discussion about the Maps Section a while ago in which, almost unanimously, we decided the system we had was not working. Many people agreed that a system similar to the wc3sear.ch would be a better alternative. I don't see why people are so surprised when this happened. I've been waiting for this for a while now.

I'd also like to point out that Moderators should comment in the Mods Lobby if they disagree with Ralle's decisions, not here.

 

[Hakeem]

Well, I can tell you what I meant and what I didn't mean. If you and others took it the wrong way and think it's my fault, I can do nothing but tell you what I really meant and apologize for the confusion. It certainly was not my intention.

Just a heads up to when you speak in the future.

I'd also like to point out that Moderators should comment in the Mods Lobby if they disagree with Ralle's decisions, not here.

Because it has to do with moderating?

EDIT:
To make a really, really, really, long story short,



Mini-mods do not have real powers.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

Just a heads up to when you speak in the future.

Pardon? I don't follow.

 

[Septimus]

Voting a resources based on storyline/gameplay is another matter. That is why we have rating system for it, which naturally could be use by user and mod/admin.

As for this system, voting for approval/rejection is more focus on the condition of the resources. Some user who are crazy enough to do so might create several multiple account in order to get their own resources to be approve.

There is a huge different in approve/reject a resources based on bug and quality (Gameplay, storyline and etc etc).

Majority of the user prefer to approve resources based on how nice it was, which could possibly lead to several approval resources in the list that could possibly crash wc3.

This system is strictly for those who could ensure the resources is safe enough to be use, not how nice it was.

 

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

Mini-modding is nearly useless anyway... but now you're just screwing up the system.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

Some user who are crazy enough to do so might create several multiple account in order to get their own resources to be approve.

This won't be a problem, though. Ralle has already implemented (with me enforcing) countless filtration systems to prevent users from multi-accounting.

 

[Septimus]

What is the example of the filter

 

[Rising_Dusk]

Well, it's currently filtering something like 200 IP addresses from varied banned users since its recent inception and has twice as many banned users as a result. Not sure what more I can tell you other that it's working, really.

 

[Pyritie]

I'm fine with this system in maps and spells, like I said earlier, but I really don't think this is necessary in sections with good moderation, such as skins, icons, and models. If anything this just makes my job slightly more annoying because it doesn't change how I moderate resources. I just get these "(Minimod reviews: 4)" all over the place which now I'm having to completely ignore because they're useless.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

You're just averse to change, had they been there the whole time you wouldn't know the wiser. Also, you should at the very least read them, I know I would.

 

[TheBlooddancer]

There is no way to proper review something now.
You can say that 'im voting this as a 4/5, due to lack of', i can onyl say 'Should be approved even though lack of' in the Minimod box. And mods will only see this as any spam message, along with other peoples.

 

[Kwah]

Py does have a point. For something that you can judge quickly and easily (ie: an icon), the 'mini-mod' reviews are almost useless. Icon moderators can judge an icon quickly, and give you good feedback independent of what the votes are. Still, its not as if it has any negative effects.

 

[The_Silent]

Mini-mods do not have real powers.

Well, they got one real power. Overspaming the real moderators with their opinions :/

 

[TheBlooddancer]

Thats not really a power.

 

[The_Silent]

Thats not really a power.

It is... A really evil power...

 

[TheBlooddancer]

No. Its more like.. An ability.

 

[The_Silent]

Its like the same thing...
The only difference is that abillities can't get your toaster going.

 

[Kwah]

And this is both of your cues to realize that that was off-topic and lame.

 

[HappyTauren]

The_Silent, are you a moderator? Not. Then...

 

[Pyritie]

A suggestion.

When resources are approved/rejected, hide the minimod buttons.

 

[Arvedui]

A suggestion.

When resources are approved/rejected, hide the minimod buttons.

Agreed. What's the point in having the buttons if the resource has already been approved.

If anything it's just more crap on the screen that I don't care about

Anyway, my opinion, not that it matters to anyone, is that if the right people actually post reviews via the "minimod buttons" then they could actually be helpful.

And also, the majority of people who look for resources don't give a crap what they're rated (i.e. people with 1 post on one resource, or no posts at all).

I could see how one could find this beneficial, but it's kinda pointless when the user can just post their thoughts of the resource by commenting.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

I do agree with your suggestion, Pyr. I'll look into it.

 

[Joe-black-5]

mini mods buttons should be only used by minimods :S

 

[HappyTauren]

Great, now re read the whole thread.

 

[Joe-black-5]

Great, now re read the whole thread.

lol i said "should"