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[Altered Melee] If WC3 Had A Second Expansion?

Discussion in 'Idea Factory' started by Zoldam, May 3, 2018.

  1. Zoldam

    Zoldam

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    TFT added various units, researches, heroes, and other things, as well as a few stat-related changes (such as adding magic and hero attack types) to basic melee games. My question is, if another expansion had happened, what do you think would be new for melee maps?

    Would we see a 5th hero, maybe filling a hero-type one is missing for each faction (AGI Human, STR NE)?
    What kind of new units do you think could be seen?
    Perhaps a new mechanic? (Like say making it so you can get a lore character for your 3rd hero)
    I think you get the idea.
     
  2. cleavinghammer

    cleavinghammer

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    More Naga units.

    A lower-tier healing spell for the Horde.

    A better distinction for Magic damage (Archmage throwing fireballs isn't Magic, but Chimeras spitting lightning is, except when Lizards do so in which case it's Piercing).

    Maybe some kind of faction-based units (Forsaken/Scourge, Maeiv/Tyrande, etc.)
     
  3. Zoldam

    Zoldam

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    I'm not sure how Naga could fit in to a faction unless a new one was made for them (Naga themselves, Illidari, or Old God).

    For damage type I intended to make them more consistent unless something would be OP as hell.

    I had an older map where I sort of offered masteries where you would pick one at the start of the game which would effect tech/unit paths and strength of certain units, but it felt like it deviated too much from "expansion" and became more of a "melee redesign". So for example the Horde was Darkspear Mastery (Buffs troll units and opens up certain researches/abilities), Orc Mastery (Same, but for Orc units), and Brute Mastery which allowed the recruitment of Ogres and buffed Tauren. The other factions had a similar story.

    I suppose I could work on another melee redesign map, but for now I am thinking more of "enhancing" current factions. Also if you could, elaborate on the Horde healing thing, I never found it to be that huge of an issue personally, but I would like to hear more on the issue.
     
  4. cleavinghammer

    cleavinghammer

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    Well, everyone else has a healing spell available at T2 (Heal, Essence of Blight, Moon Wells/Rejuvenation). Something more effective than Healing Salves would be nice.
     
  5. Dr Super Good

    Dr Super Good

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    Blizzard has moved away from the expansion model for its RTS games.
     
  6. cleavinghammer

    cleavinghammer

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    ^ You mean like the SC2 games? Same mechanics (compared to WC2 -> WC3), more units?

    That's what I meant: maybe some of the unfinished/not-quite balanced races encountered in TFT (naga, Akama's draenai, fel orcs / demon-worshipping orcs, satyrs) would have had some balancing out and new units and spells.

    Lorewise, I don't play WOW but I imagine they could have gotten a lot of mileage out of the quests and worldbuilding done there (given the quality of custom campaigns that do exactly that).
     
  7. Zoldam

    Zoldam

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    "Blizzard has moved away from the expansion model for its RTS games."

    That's not what I was talking about, I was talking about a "what if" kind of scenario.

    As for the orc healing, I suppose I could give shamans something, a new spell slot(s) is open due to Ogre Magi getting Bloodlust (I always found it unfitting for Thrall's shamans, and Ogre Magi had it in WC2). What kind of thing would work best? A healing salve style spell? Or maybe a toned down chain heal? (I am not fond of copying hero abilities and toning them down, but I am open to if needed) or something else completely?
     
  8. stein123

    stein123

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    Why would you need another healing for the orcs? They already have the witch doctor's healing totem and the shadow hunter's healing Wave : /
     
  9. Zoldam

    Zoldam

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    It was in reference to someone else expressing in the orc's healing unit being 3rd tier, while the other factions have one available at 2 (Besides of course, heros and items). I haven't done anything yet, so I'm open to any ideas people have whether it be countering others or not.
     
  10. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

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    I love this idea/topic. Even if it's impossible ( @Dr Super Good ), it's fun to think about.

    Even if it's not very Warcraft-y/too hard to balance, I'm a big fan of picking, like, a sub-faction or discipline at the beginning & having it affect your game. Whether as simple as Red Alert 2 (pick a Nation; you get over special unit associated with that Nation), or as complex as Age of Mythology (pick a major God & (@ each tier) pick a minor God; all of which unlocks different buildings, upgrades, units, spells, etc) , I love it. Kinda wanna design that myself, in fact.

    However, re: Orc healing; you can't just ignore Heroes. The Shadow Hunter's Healing Wave is kinda the whole point; Orcs were missing healing so they got it in TFT.
     
  11. cleavinghammer

    cleavinghammer

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    Yes, but they have no healer units until then. If the hunter is killed before they have Healing Wards available, they're stuck waiting to revive him while everyone else has a way to quickly heal their army.
     
  12. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

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    Ah dannae. I don't play enough to know the balance of the game, but perhaps that was intentional? Perhaps the Horde (& and/or the Blademaster) are just that powerful?

    Also are Healing Salves not used competitively? They are a T1 item, and pretty strong outside of combat IIRC.
     
  13. Healing salves suffice imo.

    Faster matchmaking, even if it compromises skill level similarity.
     
  14. Rui

    Rui

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    Illidari or Demons would be in good position to be factions themselves. And yes, Naga units need a nerf overall; compare the Couatl to the Wind Rider, for example; more damage at a faster rate for 40 less gold and only 2 food, and +3 armor.

    Heals normally suffice in any melee game. The most worrisome is actually the Undead, who can rely only on blight to heal its units early on unless you get a Death Knight. Getting a non-undead tavern hero also means you don't get heal until Halls of the Dead. Orc is quite well in comparison ;)
     
  15. stein123

    stein123

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    And the Obsidian Statues? : /
     
  16. Daffa

    Daffa

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    Obs Statues are T2 materials, thus not accessible early game.
     
  17. stein123

    stein123

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    same as priests, witch doctors and druis of the claw : /
     
  18. Daffa

    Daffa

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    I'm pretty certain the problem refers to T1, considering Halls of the Dead is a T2 and the quoted post refers to T1 situation.

    T1 heal :
    Human : Scroll, Paladin
    Orc : Salve, Shadow Hunter
    Undead : ??? (Unless counting that Blight generating item, which is not an effective heal to compare with)
    Night Elves : Moon Well
     
  19. stein123

    stein123

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    Well, Undead have DK too, but yeah, i get the point : p
     
  20. Daffa

    Daffa

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    If one skip DK (e.g went Lich), they're screwed in recovery.

    This puts Undead in a big disadvantage in solo when the enemy has healing edge over them if they didn't pick DK. Effectively, this diminishes tactical choice for Undead (forced DK on first hero for actual edge).
    Cannbalize minimize the problem, but... corpse?

    A fix would be adding some sort of early recovery, though that might make them OP in late game...